GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: DirtyGinge on September 22, 2011, 07:19:02 PM
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Hi All
No, the bathroom is not finished.......( just don't ask, nearly there)
however I have managed to squeeze a little more forum time in recently , so its time for another mad scientist project from da Ginge :)
As usual I will be posting this over 12 weeks in installments due to getting too drunk, so be patient :)
AIM OF THE PROJECT
1....Not to freeze my nads off..winter is coming, aiming for -12C comfort
2....be portable / ( or bike powered)
3....be easy, so any nutter with a soldering iron can do it
4...make a hoodie and gloves
Now I have run extensive tests on this, does it work ????? ..YES...very much so... Im just about to make my heated hoodie amd glove set, but need time to document it for you all :)..
( webby, you are going to have to get a piece of this, trust me, experience.........I Ride them there roads you ride)
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So here is the science bit ( some of which some of you will know, due to phase wires etc)
If you take a piece of wire, say for instance a skinny little bit of wire, and run a small ampage through it, there is no problem, however if you put a large ampage through it, it heats up (it loses ampage, in the form of heat)...some of you may have noticed this if you are running external controllers, on the phase wires ( which can lose up to 200W in heat)
Now if you make sure that the insulation on this wire can take a lot of heat before getting damaged, put a controlled voltage/ampage though it, you get a wire that can produce heat, and not turn you into ghost rider....knit this into your clothing, attach a battery......pink winter riding..
so here is what I am going to use
1....Wire.....30 meters for £10.00........rs components...part number 177-0621
30AWG 7 strand 0.13mm PTFE coated...
Insulation rating 200 centigrade, amp rating 4 Amps, 600V
( made again by our famous alphawire)
2....switch ....( anything mostly, rating 5 amps ?)
3...fuse.......( always fuse, just always...job done)
4....1 laptop battery ( newer the better, 11.1V .....or 6 * 18650 cells....or lipo cell...basically we need 3.7V and as many ah as possible for long run time
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right, mathematics
so....here are some basic terms for newbies ( leslie, its for the newbie's...take a deep breath)
if we compare electricity to a supermarket checkout / Till
voltage = how fast the shoppers are walking ( how fast the electrical supply is, measured in V)
ampage = how much shopping each shopper has( how much of the electricity is moving fast / slow)
resistance = the really stupid checkout operator who wants your life story and will not just scan the damn items( like a narrow hallway, only so much electricity can fit through a narrow gap ), measured in ohms
formula
using a multimeter, we measure the ohms of the wire( more on this later, but just a quickie to get the maths going)...for the hoodie I will use 5 meters
I measure the resistance @ 2.0 ohms
3.7V/2.0 ohms = 1.85 amps ( my wire will comsume 1.85 amps)
3.7V * 1.85 amps = 6.85 watts of heat
so you can directly compare watts to a GU10 light bulb, we all know a 50Watt version of that is too hot to touch, imagine one of those underneath your jumper , nice and toasty on a frosty morning....
now if we change the voltage?
7.4V/2.0 ohms = 3.7 amps
7.4V * 3.7 = 27.38 watts
so we double the voltage, but nearly 5 times the heat output, at 27 watts
11.1V/2 ohms = 5.55 amps
11.1*5.55 = 61 watts of heat....you are getting a sun tan internally
so by adjusting the voltage, we can multiply dramatically the heat output of the wire
just for reference, I ran 5 meters of cable from 2 x 18650 cells, hand hot for 1 hour on my desk
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Sounds like an interesting project. My trips are usually too short to have to worry about wearing proper clothing, but I'll keep an eye on this just in case it gets too cold ;D
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He's a bloody nutter, what ever next! ::)
:D
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Gingey I've been down this road mate......
There is a serious amount of trial and error before you will ever get the temperature right.
All depends on the resistance, and length of wire etc. But you are on the right track with your idea
I made a pair of pants and a jumper made out of 2 heated car seat covers ages ago, I'll try and dig them up!~!!
All I did was cut the side of the heated seat covers with a razor and slide out the plastic pcb element panels.
I put 2 in the legs of my pants (front) and the 1 front, 1 on the back of a jumper. It draws 3.5A at 12.6V and works awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!
Let us know how you go bloke, I also considered running small heated duct tubing to a 200W 12v ceramic heater haha blowing up my jumper on long super freezing rides lol
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Worst case, im going to runa PWM controller on it, but lets not confuse the followers just yet Monkey :)
( why do my work mates keep singing Danger Danger song by electric six ?? Watch the video lol)
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Well the weather here now is tops!@ But I'm seriously eager to find out what you come up with on the other side of the world!!
I first got the idea from a Goldwing, I thought ohhh how nice would it be to have some heat (although not much..) but at least its something lol
:D
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I have heated grips on my snowblower. I find when using it bare handed my palms are warm and the back of my hands cold. On a bike it would be worse I'm sure. If I wear gloves I no longer feel the warmth. I think you need something like a large sock shaped object that you stick your hands and part of your forearm into to stay warm :)
Gary
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Hi Gary
The plan is to put the wiring into the top of the gloves, especially around the tops of the fingers, so that the coldest part of the hands get the heating....
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can you get tungsten wire? Or tungsten coated wire?? That would be ideal...
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to be honest, the part code supplied is both easy to obtain in any country in some form, and works too
177-0621
www.rswww.com
:)....no experiment is valid unless it can be replicated....drink 10 buds and see if you can type as in the last shentanse :)
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right, so Im working on voltages as output by lithium cells in series.....so 4.2, 8.4 etc ( as I have so many of the bloody things), however in the future im going to run it off lithium polymer cells for light weight long life....
Bear in mind that you are not going winter riding in a t shirt, what we need here is something buried in a layer to keep gentle heat constant, rather than full on heat
To calculate watts required, consider this, take a 50W light bulb, put it under your jumper, even if you spread the heat out a bit, it will soon be wayy to hot in there
I only start to get cold about 15-20 mins into the ride.....so its a trickle heat required.
starting out, I worked at 8.5 watts of heat, using a 4.2V battery......i can always config different voltages on different batteries for colder days,
changing up to an 8.4 battery instantly changes this up to 35 watts..12.6 gives nearly 80 watts....
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So away we go....
I take a standard hoodie, 5M of wire and a battery pack...
Its important that I can charge the pack with the chargers I use for the lipo packs...so an XT-60 connector is used ( small and 60 amp rated)
The wire is great as its sooo slippy it threads really easy.....I turn the jumper inside out and start threading ( don't want to appear to camp and knowledgable here but don't forget a thimble, and use a double loop at each end of a straight run to lock the wire in place for that run :)
takes about 1 hour...
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The hoodie in question is great in that it has a pocket in the front for battery connection....
Next I plan a seperate circuit for the gloves, as I need to work out a different voltage here..5metres of wire for 2 gloves may be a bit excessive :), plus I want to be able to operate both independantly so im going to run the wires down my sleeve for the gloves, so I don't get tangled on anything ....
Word of advice from the motorbike crew....dont put wire anywhere bony ( rules my belly out lol), as the bony areas get too hot too quick, shoulders etc you will notice I havent done the back here, as 1, I plan to use a backpack, and 2, the windchill is mostly in the front....
After a pretty mild day, I gave it a test ( bear in mind 4 volts only) , it took about a minute to heat up, but them my buddha belly was bathed in a comforting glow, not hot, just warm......probably good to -2 C.......any colder ( which im expecting a very bad winter) and I will double the voltage :), or maybe use an on bike dc-dc voltage regulator adjustable on the fly....)adjustable heat :)
Any questions so far ( apart from whats really mentally wrong with me :) )
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oops , pic of hoddie in question
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The only change I might suggest is to use
iron on fabric on the inside to both cover
and protect the wire.
That will keep any zippers or stuff from s
horting the heating element
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yup, agreed....todays run was just a trial though, quick and easy, ( getting a dual layer body warmer may be more preferable....
For me, I only use t-shirts under these but even a cotton panel on the inside would be fine....
( I need maybe slighty longer, as its been recommended to me to do the lower back also )
This will be worn under a waterproof jacket, to keep the wind directly off it ( which makes so much difference in the cold.....waterproof to keep wind out, jumper to heat, skintight base layer for warmth, last nights honey wine ( honeybeer, for the sake of the aussies) for antifreeze
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Nice picture. Glad to see your still into disney movies, stickers and colouring :)
Gary
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You chaps are nuts! ;D
I got an easier idea Ginge, how about buying one of the heated body warmers in Maplin ? and some heated gloves!
I can imagine you flying by on your bike with smoke from your jacket! ;D
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buying stuff, dya think im made of money ?
So I managed to wire 5 metres of wire into the front of my hoodie, and went with it....there have been some cold misty mornings here so it was great for testing
initial impressions
4.2V ( 1S).....nice if you are indoors in a warehouse ( like mine), but not much cop on the road
make sure you do wire higher up the chest than my V1 hoodie, it does get a bit cold there
so I went 2S 8.2 V,.....my god, its roasting.....I am so happy riding to work finally, the winter is going to be one of glowing ginger buddha belly ........it needs turning down a bit so perfect for me would be 8.2V ( 2S) x 7 metres....
However im going to 12.6(3S) ( as these are the mainstay of my battery pack)...and 10 metres of wire, giving me the same heat but just over a greater area...I Will use plug in gloves, using 30A Andersons , and if not , use a loopback connector on each sleeve end ( just a connector grounded positive to negative, just to complete the circuit if no electric glove present....
What do I think, for a bloody £20....wehayy.........
Need more runtime ...and controlability
Have ordered a PWM controller, 12V in , variable 0-100% out, 0.01% Efficiency.....although ebay said heathrow, shipped from whom say may tai jai warehouse in god knows where, otherwise im going to build my own pwm circuit with pot for "heat volume"control
but for winter riding........priceless................
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Ha Ha nice one Ginge mate!
I got a great winter idea, take the car LOL!
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mark, if you take the car, you are going to put on all that chubbyness :)
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So weird how everyone has their own reasons for riding!
I'm complete opposite in the eyes of "Riding for fitness", I ride a little for exercise, but mostly ride for fresh air and the sun when its rarely in unpredictable Melbourne
Considering the amount of 'sitting' I do compared to pedalling, I am very curious of this 'plug in' heater.
What kind of current are you drawing with your 2s setup Ginge? Like how long will it last with your battery packs? Even Spring and Summer is Winter weather here at times......
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mark, if you take the car, you are going to put on all that chubbyness :)
Yes Ginge, but if you don't pedal you'll put it on too! ;D
Mark
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i keep fit dodging rabbits..........takes a lot of effort to steer this prime love machine around the road
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haha Ginge,
Yeah I hate that on the country roads here, and rats especially this time of year running around through the fields with all the harvesting!
I would hate a rat or rabbit to run head first into the spokes! yuck
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Right, so I rewire Version 2, with another hoodie....and a spanky fresh PWM motor controller courtesy of Ebay :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-15A-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Regulate-RC-Model-/250882728751?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a69c6a32f
This time
wire higher up the front
wire the lower back
switch to 12.6V 3 series lipo ( 3ah)
The resistance reads about 2.6 Ohms, giving me about 5 amps of current pull, for about 60 watts of heat......to give you an idea, 60 watts, even at 8 metres in length, burns my skin...
runnin within the "nice n safe" margins of lipo ( 4.2 to 3.7), I get a runtime at full power of about 25 minutes., you would need pack capacity of 6ah, to deliver 5 and be nice to the batteries...
However, you really cannot run it at full power, its just too hot indoors, so I wire in my nice PWM controller and give it some...
I get 0-100 percent full adjustable control via a "volume knob" pot......sweeeet
Now I just need to wait for a cold day ...
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I'M WARM, I'm WARM :)
Run today at outside temp of 8 degrees with wind......
Run at about 40-50%, run time of 75 minutes, and for once my first winter cycle isn't completed with me just miserable......I'm just nice n toasty
Anyone have an easy to build PWM controller for 6 amps ?, or how about a cheap supply of 60V to 12V DC-DC converters for 6 amps....
You are all going to want some of this action ;
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Ginge, good to hear you have not been electrocuted yet, and hopefully you're not suffering from minor burns either.
Run at about 40-50%
I'm curious as to how you've wired the potentiometer to actually control the output of the PWM motor controller, are you using a servo tester powered from a single cell?
I'm guessing the controller doesn't have reverse, or it would be off (cold) in the mid position, and vary up to full current (hot) in either direction.
how about a cheap supply of 60V to 12V DC-DC converters for 6 amps....
You might want to check out this post on ES (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2264), it could be an alternative use for a switching type power supply, which are commonly used to supply low voltage power to laptops, printers and LCD monitors etc.
Alan
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i Cant take any credit for the controller to be fair, its an ebay standard 12V PWM motor controller, pot included with 3 leads for pot, 2 for volts in, 2 for volts out....nice n simple, but as it takes most of the money to buy one, a homebrew solution would be nice, and built for probably a few $
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I think I stopped building circuits because everything is on ebay for less than the components costs lol
Hey the ones with reverse usually have a rocker switch / switch with them to enable reverse function.
Hey gingey what kind of plug are you using, is it a big anderson? I wondered if you ever forgot it was plugged in and tried to walk away from the bike :D
Good to hear you are toasty it would have been funny seeing you with a big grin and steam coming from your clothes riding along in the frost hehe
[Gingey and his super heater bike :D]
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2216/1806447560_58b27bd8ca.jpg)
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LOL
at the moment, im running an XT60 to some lipo ( which on its own could heat me up if I discharge it too far boom hehehe)
most likely I will use the small 30 amp andersons, as they disconnect quite easily......or a car type cigarette adapter to battery
For work, ive wired a desktop power supply for use whilst im stationary
At 65 watts, it really is soo hot, I reckon you would be good to at least -10C in a windproof cover, jumper and t-shirt
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Yanno, if you took that radiator out, you could fit about
A dozen 48V10Ah packs in that spot.
100 mile range anyone?
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Yanno, if you took that radiator out, you could fit about
A dozen 48V10Ah packs in that spot.
100 mile range anyone?
I know, I told him but he owns way too many bikes. This is my favourite, his Friday night ride :)
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/09/18/hopworks-beer-bicycle_hROIC_5965.jpg)
It has a pizza warmer carrier, boombox sound
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/09/18/hopworks-beer-bicycle_RMbF1_5965.jpg)
And some spiffy beer taps!!
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/09/18/hopworks-beer-bicycle_OnLPR_5965.jpg)
hehe :D
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/09/18/hopworks-beer-bicycle_xBqg7_5965.jpg)
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rofl......guys, honestly, if I had that bike, I wouldnt leave the garage :)
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So its been cold...-3 c, and testing everything out....nice n warm :)
So to simplify things, I got a 12V regulator and PWM controller fitted to the bike, then put a ciggarette lighter socket on the end, now I just plug right into the bike......hmmmmm......
Also looking up 12V microwaves, cheese sandwich makers, kettles.......a cigarette lighter socket really has some uses it seems :)
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You should get a winch and offer towing services ;)
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So its been cold...-3 c, and testing everything out....nice n warm :)
So to simplify things, I got a 12V regulator and PWM controller fitted to the bike, then put a ciggarette lighter socket on the end, now I just plug right into the bike......hmmmmm......
Also looking up 12V microwaves, cheese sandwich makers, kettles.......a cigarette lighter socket really has some uses it seems :)
Found an interesting link for 12 volt items you might like here.
http://cozywinters.com/heated-clothing/index.html
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/wg-interconnected_illustrate.gif)
Of course this may take the fun out of making your own but they do look interesting.
Gary
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Combine the heated clothing with a Sinclair X-1 and you'll stay warm and dry, plus you won't need glasses to keep the flies out of your eyes either.
(http://www.sinclairzx.com/i/x-1-hmpg.jpg) (http://www.sinclairzx.com/)
The X-1 electric vehicle can drive 10 miles for just £0.10p (based on an average weight passenger using pedal assistance)
It requires no fuel, just a lightweight rechargeable battery pack (24v Lithium Polymer pack supplied, secondary pack available as an option at extra cost of £50)
A super efficient MCR pancake motor is linked to rear wheel by fixed gear drive chain (motor rated at 190 watts, wheel size: 16")
Front and rear disc brakes provide 100% stopping power
Adjustable suede covered handlebars to suit any position
Waterproof Acrylic bubble protects driver and includes integral roll cage frame bonded to monocoque chassis
Reclining nylon seat - highly comfortable on long or short journeys.
Superlight construction using carbon fibre lower shell and steel chassis (weight: 30 kilos)
Requires no driving license, insurance or road tax to be road legal (insurance recommended, subject to territory)
Strong visibility to other road users such as cars and lorries (built in front and rear lights aid visibility)
Can be driven in UK by anyone over age of 14 (including on cycle paths)
X-1 dimensions: 209x140x69cm
From RSP £595
Visit the Sinclair Website (http://www.sinclairzx.com/) or take a look at the video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_PJy5MIhc) to see it in action.
I would want a drop down wheeled stabilizer mechanism, so you can keep your legs in the dry when you have to stop at traffic lights and junctions, along with doors, suspension, wing mirrors and some decent gearing, as the very low ratio single speed is no good for speed.
I'm sure the addition of a modified 16" Magic Pie drawing 60Amps @ 48V would quickly get it up to a reasonable top speed. ;D
Alan
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yep the heated clothing is already built for motorbikes, but in the uk, jackets alone start at about £100......I built all of mine so far for about £25 :)
Im such a cheapo....
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Hi all
hope you have finnished the bathroom ...... ;D
You might be getting a little ripe now !........wiff wiff..wiff :D
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dya know, you are the sixth person to ask me today..even people I don't know are asking...
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We all want to see the finnished bathroom ...with you smiling !
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well bath is up and running, so tomorrow its shower, then floor, then im done yayayyyyyy
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well bath is up and running, so tomorrow its shower, then floor, then im done yayayyyyyy
I understand your hope in completing your project. I just finished a seven year renovation to my house where I added a second floor. Its now done and the final signoff was a few weeks ago. I now find myself wandering around wondering what to do with myself at times :)
Time for a new ebike! I can see it coming! I'm thinking chopper or recumbent with an MPIII ;D
Or maybe I should do a major project and build a "Monkey" bike!
Gary
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Or maybe I should do a major project and build a "Monkey" bike!
Gary
Lol it was only major because I took so long building it, and changed it so much! But in all honesty, if you knew exactly what you wanted straight up and get everything you need for it before you start building it - that will be a much better experience !!
I have just made a new YouTube account I am starting to add videos, once I get a few good ones I'll post them up.
It was so worth it though...... :D