GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Chris Angel on September 23, 2008, 03:40:55 PM
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Ordered 2 kits early July. Put both into service (or tried) mid August and noticed a sliding scraping sound at all no load speeds. Opened wire side cover and found bushing missing. Emailed sales@goldenmotor.com and smart Bike Canada (where the kits were drop shipped from) asking for either the part or dimensions of the bushing so I could buy locally. I generously offered to repair their defective from factory equipment no charge back or return shipping or other such grief for them, work time and expense for me. You would think that would warrant some cooperation. Noooo, not with golden. From smart Bike Canada I get sorry Philip will have to handle this and from Philp nothing despite 3 emails sent and weeks of patience. Nothing improves with this outfit, no manual or parts breakdown no support and no courtesy. I would appreciate if anyone can provide the wire side bushing dimensions for 36V brushless hub motor. I have read many postings on this site and seen a number of rationilizations for this kind of shoddy customer service and despite these there is no excuse for the continued lack of documentation, parts support and basic customer service.
PS - Customer service When someone offers to do you a favor and you do not respond that is RUDE by any definition, regardless of culture. If you (P.Y.) have not learned this and made the changes that so many of your customers are asking for by now you never will. Send me an email if I am wrong otherwise I can and will take my business elsewhere. It is most annoying to have prompt responses from you when money is involved but none where service is involved. This forum does not take the place of customer service, if someone told you that they are WRONG, it can suplement customer service but it can't repalace it especially when there are no other resources like User Guides, Parts Manuals and responses to inquiries other than sales. If you have those basic things you can then benefit through a reduction in the need for customer service.
PPS - Customer service, if you don't have the part how about opening a motor side cover, grab a set of calipers and measure. Then maybe you will remember why documentation is important.
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I know exactly how you feel mate, I honestly don't understand their attitude, answering emails (just this alone) would improve their reputation and business immensely. Instructions and tech specifications and graphics - I mean, really, how difficult can that be for them to get hold of??
Good luck, sorry I can't help, because they never even bothered to SEND me a motor.......still took my money though.
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That too is simply remedied, do not invoice a customers credit card until the order is filled better yet not until it ships. Then provide the tracking number at the same time as the invoice notification. Other companies have tried this same thing bill for the entire order without the stock to fill it. I protest it every time as it as way too difficult to tell who is scamming and who is not unless the reputable ones play by that rule. I do believe you will get your product though. This company is very deeply flawed but not actually grifters.
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> It is most annoying to have prompt responses from you when money is involved but none where service is involved.
if golden were a reseller instead of a manufacturer it'd be difficult for Philip to answer that question. people have the idea that there's a factory but I've never read anything in the way of proof of that. why I asked I got: yeah, Philip has a factory.
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Where is that factory?
Im sure its all up to speed and I'm very very happy with my GM product dealer in Australia. In my mind Philip
Yao the good guy that makes my bike run really well.
However
Ive done a little background check on this site for 1. Its registered to Yao, Guohua
Remember guys this could all mean nothing what-so-ever make of it what you will and take care when dealing with this information. It is all legal and retrievable from the internet..
who-is search on this site
GoldenMotor.Com
9 Bukit Batok Central Link
#27-02, The Jade
Singapore, 658074
SG
+65-xxxxxxx
From my experience running comercial web sites in multiple countries it is back boners law AUP to use your correct address when registering a domain name for business reasons.
As this is the only up front server domain registered to Philip Yao (not a sub domain of another domain) I take this as the owner of this sites address.
He could have a forum guru running this site (Guru ???)
However the stamp on my motor says goldenmtor.com. Notice the missing letter O. this could be a typo ???
Then I did a profile check on the company..
And the business is registered to
Company Authentication
Company Name: Golden Motor Technology Co., Ltd.
Country/Territory: China
Registered Address: Luoyang Town, Changzhou, Jiangsu, China Zip: 213104
Year Established: 2006-07-10
Legal Representative/CEO: Mr. Guohua Yao
Legal Form: Wholly Foreign-Owned Enterprise
Registration No.: No.004585
Issuing Authority: Jiangsu Province Changzhou Administration for Industry and Commerce
Date of Issue: 2006-07-10
Date of Expiry: 2021-07-09
Registered Capital: USD 6,250,000
Applicant Information
Name: Mr. Philip Yao
Department: Management Department
Job Title: Board Chairman
Then I find this at tootoo.com
http://www.tootoo.com/d-c15166415-Golden_Motor_Technology_Co_Ltd_/ (http://www.tootoo.com/d-c15166415-Golden_Motor_Technology_Co_Ltd_/)
Mr. Philip YAO
Address: #608 Suncity Business Center,367 Tong Jiang Zhong Road
Zip: 213000
Tel: 86-519-xxxxxxx
Fax: 86-519-xxxxxxx
Website: http://www.goldenmotor.com
http://cngoldenmotor.en.alibaba.com
^^^^
at least this ties the comany profile and this web site domain together...
Then we have a distributor in Hong Kong ?
Wah Lun technology pty.ltd
Search google Hong Kong. :D
http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&q=wah+lun+technology+pty.ltd&btnG=Google+Search&meta= (http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&q=wah+lun+technology+pty.ltd&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)
Nothing
Did a data base search on the company name... Wah Lun technology pty.ltd
Sorry, we found no results matching your query.
Oops dead end. still could mean ZiP ???
If anything this only proves that there exsists more than a factory related to this/these company.
I will let you know if I find anything concrete. I don't want to start spending cash on international calls for this..
Look guys I could be wrong but is there is something fishy going on?
I spoke to a long time friend in China with a high profile job in electronics and she tells me that she knows of Golden Motors in Shangha.
My friend in china is going to spend a little more time investaging these problems people are having.
There seems to be two types of stories going down... Some people saying the products are exceptional and other saying that they continue to get bad (used) products and bad (used) replacment products..
Make of it what you will....
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Look guys, it's giiving me depression reading through half of the threads here about the bad dealings... If it was me Id be pretty upset too, but complaining here seems to do nothing but interupt what the community does here.
Above is what one should be doing if they have any problems. Look into it and use your net. you would be amazed what ya can dig up when you use "GOOGLE" a Who-is query ETC. Information is knowledge and knowledge is power. Use this to your advantage.
So far my experience here has been a roler coaster of events.
It saddens me to see people get angry all the time.
So far ive been shown by Lanchon to test my hubs without a controller, Ive been shown how to fix a twist grip so it is very strong, and Pete helped fix one of my chargers and saved me some money. And all the other stuff... We here have no idea whats going on regarding the bad products and there is no real rep that I can see representing Golden Motors spin on these complaints....
Other than search this companies under garments looking for holes we here have nothing more to give but say, I know how you feel send an email, phone him up yada yada... Not much more than you have done already.
Some advice I guess is great when things are not rosey but it seems many threads end up like this when all he wants is some help looking for a spacer or bush???. I really didnt understand the question of the OP to begin with but I know where its going...
If you hang here long enough you will learn something from the guys here but we can not refund your cash, nor could we make it more possible to get your cash back...
Lanchon you are like me in one way or two. I worry too much.. We should stop!
Diss me if im wrong. But I like this place and you with it...
Peace out...
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I am truly impressed with your research regarding Golden Motor. I would have no idea how to acquire this information from China.
All anyone has to do to satisfy their curiosity regarding Golden Motors customer and parts service is :
1. Look for your parts manual with your order.
2. Email or contact anyone regarding the identity and availability of parts.
I purchased my first kit from Golden in 2004 which predates the registration dates shown in your research and I am sure they existed at least 1-2 years prior to that.
I am not so much concerned with their legitimacy as I am the obvious direction of the company. Someone (probably Philip) seems to think that this forum is a complete substitute for customer / parts support and so it is perfectly acceptable to ignore any such requests. I have waited 4 years and this company still refuses to address quality and documentation issues. This coupled with recent experiences like billing a month and a half prior to shipping, add up to an unacceptable direction for me. No hard feelings there are lots of other goof ball companies out there playing the same bush league games. I will make my next purchase from a company that understands the value of repeat business and what is required to encourage it. Somewhere (cue music from Wizard of Oz) that I don't have to post to a forum for basic parts information...
In case the original purpose of my email is not clear, if you remove the "wire side" motor cover there is a bronze bushing or spacer around the axle. This is missing and rather than ship the thing back to where it was drop shipped from I am willing to replace it either with an original part if someone can supply it or if someone can advise dimensions using a caliper or micrometer then I will purchase one locally from a industrial supply house. Anyone, please...
PS Sorry Smeee about the description being a little confusing but I seem to have misplaced my parts list and owners manual and specification sheet any of which would have given us a common frame of reference as to the identity of the part. Oddly enough I can't get a response from Golden Motor .... must go now dizzy from going around in circles while Philip chants "You buy more now...."
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you mean sleave (bush) on the last part of the axle before the thread starts.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/rotor.jpg)
If so
Man thats wierd. How could they miss that.
Id take it into a machinist and get them to figure something out.
I heard the term bush in auto industry forgive me I'm an aussie we call the bush a dryish forest land. :P
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I am truly impressed with your research regarding Golden Motor. I would have no idea how to acquire this information from China.
All anyone has to do to satisfy their curiosity regarding Golden Motors customer and parts service is :
1. Look for your parts manual with your order.
2. Email or contact anyone regarding the identity and availability of parts.
I purchased my first kit from Golden in 2004 which predates the registration dates shown in your research and I am sure they existed at least 1-2 years prior to that.
I am not so much concerned with their legitimacy as I am the obvious direction of the company. Someone (probably Philip) seems to think that this forum is a complete substitute for customer / parts support and so it is perfectly acceptable to ignore any such requests. I have waited 4 years and this company still refuses to address quality and documentation issues. This coupled with recent experiences like billing a month and a half prior to shipping, add up to an unacceptable direction for me. No hard feelings there are lots of other goof ball companies out there playing the same bush league games. I will make my next purchase from a company that understands the value of repeat business and what is required to encourage it. Somewhere (cue music from Wizard of Oz) that I don't have to post to a forum for basic parts information...
In case the original purpose of my email is not clear, if you remove the "wire side" motor cover there is a bronze bushing or spacer around the axle. This is missing and rather than ship the thing back to where it was drop shipped from I am willing to replace it either with an original part if someone can supply it or if someone can advise dimensions using a caliper or micrometer then I will purchase one locally from a industrial supply house. Anyone, please...
PS Sorry Smeee about the description being a little confusing but I seem to have misplaced my parts list and owners manual and specification sheet any of which would have given us a common frame of reference as to the identity of the part. Oddly enough I can't get a response from Golden Motor .... must go now dizzy from going around in circles while Philip chants "You buy more now...."
The bushing on my kit was extremely short so I just found some pipe and cut a piece long enough to place the washer supplied just slightly past the area on the axle that has flats on both sides. That way when things are tightened up the frame dropout pushes on the washer and bushing. I suspect this pushes against the bearing assembly and holds things together. It's an easy thing to measure if the wheel is not on the bike else is very difficult.
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Hi Smeee, no offense, but I think you're talking sh!te!! This is definitely the place to be complaining about service or the lack of it. I'm interested in ebikes (we all are are ) , I'd much prefer to be talking about how great my new motor was performing and all the mods I' wanted to make to my bike and the motor to give it real teeth but I can't - I've been scammed!!
I feel furious and though I have no halo above my head I honestly feel that I have to help other people not get f@#ked like I have.
If you are tired of hearing the complaints, I understand, don't read them, but after being butt-f@#ked at least allow us to tell how sore we feel....
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info at goldenmotor.com used to say the domain represented a company called Golden Island Machinery Ltd. (2006). now it's backed by Golden Motor Technology Co Ltd.
"Golden Island Machinery Ltd. is a private company founded in 1996, located in Changzhou, Jiangsu province, about 150Km northwest to Shanghai. We are a medium sized company with more than 150 staffs, 20,000m2 of factory land. With our talented dc motor/controller designer and mechanics engineers, experienced assembly work force, we are confident to provide our valuable customers with its quality products and services at the lowest cost. Our company is specialized in manufacturing of brushed/brushless hub motors, BLDC motors, pancake motors, motorized wheels, power wheelchairs, golf trikes, all sort of drive controllers, welding wire feeders, and other OEM products for domestic and overseas customers..."
maybe GIM was not interested in retailing. maybe Philip offered to set up an unofficial retailing outfit. maybe later it was decided that the outfit should be a separate company to insulate GIM from Philip's doings, and GMT was the result. there's no question Philip owns the goldenmotor.com domain, but a factory? I don't know about you but I find it hard to believe the chairman of the board is taking our orders, who knows...
Chris, sorry to hijack your thread. if anyone can help him with his missing bronze bushing or spacer, please do so.
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Now Join the dots...
Golden motors in my mind are not responsible for this. More like this lot pretending maybe.
http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/islandearth/zjhubmotor/zjhubmotor.htm
intercepting orders and stuff.
They have the profile that matches the quality gear being sold off.
its all a little confusing atm
These guys used to sell golden island hubs I think. They were parteners.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm (http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm)
http://www.ebike.biz/ (http://www.ebike.biz/)
ISLAND EARTH KITS
(non-geared)
All Kits Below are sent from China.
1. GL-1
Brushless Gearless
850watt peak power
$320 aud
plus $90aud freight
(5.8kg) dia=18cm
36Volt/48Volt
18amp
Brett white at Island Earth is well know to us here in Oz as 100% honest and up to speed and if he cant get it no one can..
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Whoahhh where ever this goes watch out for this lot...
Brett White Says
>>>>
They in fact thought it was in their advantage that I was alone, that I did not speak the language and did not have much support to help me through the crisis.
They tried to injure me on more than one occassion, one incident involved puting very small shards of broken glass in my coffee powder from a broken
lightbulb ( sorry Qihua and family it didn't work!) in another incident his father attacked me and Qihua Shen threatened me with a knife. Furthermore I was left in a position of having to find accomodation for myself after the attack which is no easy feat in a foreign country where you don't speak the language and have little support.
I've spoken to Brett White at Island Earth over the phone on a few occasions ans he seemed soft, calm and timid. His reputaion on forums he goes to matches my experience.
Brett White went to China paid good wages to these people and was almost killed.
If anyone is capable of screwing people with dodgy products in this manner zjhubmotor is and I would like to find anyone with the balls in china pulling this type of bussiness..
Sorry guys I've known about zjhubmotor and this story for about 2 months it was in the back of my mind when I saw an old forum post refering to Golden Island hubs from Brett White and I thought its couldnt be..
I still could be wrong.. Lets hope..
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i can't help you with the bushing but the bearing 3 is 6202rs and the bearing cross refrence guide will at least give you the shaft and case size. I read reply 3 4 and now i'll do much more investigating as I was about to order 260,000
canadian dollars worth of custom made motors and controllers. phillip has aways been good to me but look why . thanks les robinson 1 swift turtle electric bikes
one-swift-turtle@hotmail.com halifax nova scotia canada
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None of these guys are named Philip and to say even Philip may be beeing played by these toons.
You got to think deeper sometimes as these types look for any holes they can find I mean any holes. Maybe ask him to be sure about who he sends through.
It also may be the case of will the real Philip stand up.
Im doin some stuff with a long time friend in china, Im not sure where this will lead but hopefuly we can get good GM parts from the manufacturer through a healthy exporter.
Im not business minded at heart. Things are moving at a day by day pace.
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The link between Island Earth and GM has been disproven. Brett told me in a rather long Email just then. The length of the email was in regards to other matters.
Its all good, and my dealer at Ev Power Australia seems to be certain that GM are not going downhill but improving and there is plenty of good stock out to be had...
I just don't get it ::)
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Update:
I found this yesterday.
http://cngoldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/trustpass_profile.htm
And I found this today.
http://goldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/aboutus.htmll
Edit: And this!
http://goldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/trustpass_profile.html
Just add a cn to the front of the name and ???
So what do you think guys?
I have my friend in China looking both of these groups up to see who is the good guys or even if they are related at all...
If there is any funny business someone will be getting a visit from the authorities....
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Ningbo Golden Motor Industry Group Co., Ltd. Sell these swell looking bikes but if you look around a bit you can see they make a hell of a lot more.
The battery looks like the ones that Kazebluesky bought Am I correct.
(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/208457620/electric_bicycle.jpg)
My Friend from China will get to the bottom of this regardless of what country the frausters are at..
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I dunno if any of you frequent the forums at endless-sphere.com, but I've been an active link in the cross-country trek of one Justin Lemire-Elmore.
For those who aren't aware of the thread (and it's worth going over there to read), Justin departed Vancouver BC on an e-bike on August 2nd, and is currently only a few days away from completing his journey in Halifax, NS.
Justin has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about the theory and construction of BLDC hub motors, and has made his entire journey with a controller of his own design. When he was doing his test runs (on Vancouver Island) of his rig, he had chosen the Golden Motor BLDC as his first pick for the job of getting him across the country.
Why?
Because it actually has the best efficiency and least cogging torque of any of the motors he has tested. Unfortunately, it's poor at dissipating heat - he managed to kill a GM motor on a steady incline (over 1km) pulling his rig (which, with him on it, weighs nearly 300lbs). He went for a Crystalyte 5304 for the real deal, but still likes the GM motors... WITH caution...
Justin runs www.ebikes.ca, and has had his mitts on many motors. While he was stopped over here (in Ontario!) we spoke about the fact that he's dropped GM products from his site... His reasons had less to do with the fact that the were a bad product (after all, he himself was going to use one to cross the country) as much as he'd come to the conclusion that they were NOT made in one factory.
That's the thing that made me sit up and take notice, and which is relevant to this thread.
He's selling Crystalyte - whose motors have as many idiocynrasies as GM, and which are almost entirely hand-made. However, they're CONSISTENT. He was telling me that he's opened enough Golden Motor product to be absolutely convinced that the innards come from different factories/suppliers. The differences he's seen are radical, and is why he dropped them.
The motors I have are brilliant, and I maintain they are a great value. Unfortunately, all of the recommendations I have made to others to buy GM are now tainted with the knowledge that their mileage may certainly vary.
I'm still happy with what I got for the dollars paid, and that's what counts. I'm considering ordering further units, as well.
Yup - communications with China suck. But you eventually DO get the product.
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I have been watching Justin's adventure since early on. I think it's great that he has been keeping those on the ES forum informed as to his whereabouts as well as his encounters with people and problems with equipment including the rear wheel. Even with all that he has had to go through to get to where he is now, which is allot, he has kept up the communication. Quite the ride he is on.
Speaking of heat and the GM motor I rode mine into town the other day and was doing some very slow block to block riding dodging the pedestrians and traffic the best I could with all of the construction going on.. I checked the motor often and when it began to get warmer than I though it should be I stopped and let it cool down. If it had not been for Justin's information probly would have cooked the motor. They get warm fast when you go slow.
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While am I most interested in Justin etc I would be most appreciative if this thread focused first on the part I require. Thanks to some excellent ideas from various posts regarding bearing size to establish bushing I.D. and the cover hole to determine O.D. In the absence of a measured actual part I may be able to then estimate the length based on the depth to the bearing and the protrusion length of the bushing on the opposite side. Thanks to forum people - no thanks to Golden for much unecessary time spent gathering information they should have been providing for years.
My take on Phil is he has no "factory" and never did. I have never been to China but my guess is there is a lot of what would here be described as garage industries where a few people pool their resources and purchase a lathe, milling machine and other basic metal working equipment and voila we have a mini "factory" Like many less developed countries China is probably teeming with these and it is how and where Phil gets his stock. He probably has a dozen suppliers he deals with and has the lowest bidder crank out a lot size based on best guess growth. Same thing with the lithium ion batteries and that is were he is really running into problems. High defect rates and refunds forced through credit card companies have put him in a cash flow problem and now he is trying to use money from new orders to secure product resulting in disturbing delays and stall tactics. This has every possibility of wiping him out and cannot continue for long. He has few if any employees hence the non existent customer support and he will not commit him self to documentation due to the fact he buys from a number of sources and short sightedly thinks he can continue juggling suppliers and avoiding quality, parts and documentation issues for the forseeable future.
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Well we are all entitled to our own opinions Chris so yours is noted. I do not wish to offend but the bushing missing or arriving the wrong size has been a well known fact for some years now. The install instructions tell one how to easily remedy this if one reads them. Figuring the size out should not be a problem at all either as once again how to do so is explained in the install guide which is available on line and linked to The GM site. The motor obviously needs to have the bushing installed to hold the bearing in place this is likely easy for someone with the needed mechanical abilities, which not all of us have, to install the kit to figure out. If one does not posses these abilities simply reading the instructions can help most of us figure it out.
As far as Phillip and GM goes from all that I/we have managed to scrape together he has a real job at GM so not allot of time for us. GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket. I have seen pictures and video of the inside of some of the manufacturing plants in China. It was obvious that they were using 1950s American machinery on the assembly line which consisted of long lines of machine operators churning out parts from an old worn out lathes one at a time by hand. Not exactly what we would call precision. Still I also know people here in the states that order paintball gun parts from an individual in China who has managed to get hold of a CNC machine and does excellent work so good things can happen.
GM has been around for some time now and will be around for some time to come trying to improve and expand their products all the while.
Most communication with China is atrocious to say the least but from what I have seen it is improving.
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"I do not wish to offend but the bushing missing or arriving the wrong size has been a well known fact for some years now. The install instructions tell one how to easily remedy this if one reads them."
Really, if this was the case why did you not say so when you first posted? The 3rd party instructions posted make no mention of missing bushings. It talks about creating special washers if the drop outs do not permit tightening down axle nuts any other way. I am not a novice at this and have not encountered this before on any of 4 prior motor kits from Golden and never from their competitors. If it has been a problem for years then why has it not been corrected?
Please don't worry about offending me if I am right about Phil and his Golden empire, we will all be buying product from someone else soon anyway.
That drop in the bucket analogy has been used many times and certainly represents the Chinese hub motor market generally but as I have found no evidence of Golden supplying to the Chinese market I think Phil needs to get his act together or he won't have a market at all.
Time will tell Biohazardman if you are in Ontario (Canada) I would bet you a pint Phil is just selling outside China, is pretty much a one man band and will be MIA within say 6 no make it 7 months for reasons stated in this and my last post.
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Yup time usually sets things straight. We will see. I am now looking at two broken controllers, I should be riding my bike instead, hope I can fix one although it does not look good as I have a beeping noise coming from my meter when checking both directions on several of the fets. Not a good thing when they are shorted like that. ;^( The nice weather is near over and don't want to miss the last of it so guess I should finish the other bike.
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Thanks to some excellent ideas from various posts regarding bearing size to establish bushing I.D. and the cover hole to determine O.D. In the absence of a measured actual part I may be able to then estimate the length based on the depth to the bearing and the protrusion length of the bushing on the opposite side.
Man Im sorry I have a hub I could pull apart and measure at the bike shop getting a 700cc rim, not that I need the bike mechanic to do this but we and the bike shop guy are developing a help me, help you relationsh!t/p, not sure if he's going to put up with me for to long as (AS) I am a little intense . I will do it but I have a large family to attend to. Yes I have tripplets and I didnt tell these forums about the other 5 kids too. Yes I am raising 8 children :-[.
WOW Justin im going to head over to ES as I have seen some good stuff going down there.
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Thanks for your help, I noticed the three little darlings in the picture and thought "there is a far braver man than I". But eight!!!!!!!!!!!! My oh my oh my you have been busy! I will certainly be patient as I wonder how you even find the time to think about e bikes let alone build them. Thanks again so much for your assistance and I look forward to hearing from you when your time permits.
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Well I have never owned a licence or car and we now live to far from the shops to catch a cab if those kids own the milk just to catch cabs willy nilly.
Nor do I have the energy to pedal 42 litres of milk and I have no idea how much food every week.
These bikes are my dream come true and that much more. I just took off to the shops just then and my bike is in top shape ATM. Look with all the whinging about lifpo4's I can tell you that my 18ah SLA's are kicking some major EV booty ATM and im getting some serious speed and distance with these beauties.
Bike 2 is comming along and it wont be too long when all the brats are at schoo and me, the wife with 2 baby trailers with bubs in the back of them will be free from being house bound.
At least one of us has been stuck at home for 2 years now.. :)
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hi Chris, I'm sorry the info you need is trickling so slowly if at all. but I can say your opinion on GM is very sensible and hasn't been tossed around here before. the "orthodox" view simply doesn't match the facts as I see them and so I distrust that view; yours seem more realistic.
> GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket.
bio-h, these two ideas have been repeated here over and over but I'm yet to see a shred of evidence; please direct me to it if you know where to find it. (not rhetoric, it's an honest request.)
btw bio-h, could you tell me what type are those two controllers that failed on you?
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> GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket.
bio-h, these two ideas have been repeated here over and over but I'm yet to see a shred of evidence; please direct me to it if you know where to find it. (not rhetoric, it's an honest request.)
Connie from China called them yesterday in native tounge and she told me Philip "who lives in China" explained the difference between the two company names being 1:Ningbo Golden Motor Industry Group Co., Ltd. and the other just goldenmotor pty ltd... Not anything new to me really.
I will ask her once again to go out of her way to actually find out if there is indeed any factory.
Ill keep in touch
Peace out..
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Regarding the Golden Motor factory, I have seen many web sites for Chinese companies selling direct that claim to have a factory and they usually have a few photos to back up this claim and often have images purporting to be various business and quality "certificates".
Four low resolution photos one of which shows fewer than 200 hub motors is hardly evidence of the existence of a dedicated factory. Golden Motor Technology Co Ltd trust pass profile gives their address as #608 Suncity Business Center,367 Tong Jiang Zhong Road. When looking at the photos what I see is a large, probably shared business park unit. The only evidence of occupation are the photo with the sign and the photo with the hub motors.
Their current company description does not say they operate a manufacturing facility, it only implies it when stating "With our talented mechanics engineers, power wheelchair experts, DC motor and electronics controller designers, experienced assembly workforce-----" Who is "our" China Changzhou or Golden?
I always thought this was a very small outfit but that it could grow in to what it implied it was. After four years of the same unresolved problems and with new issues like cashing payment without stock and stalling orders I no longer believe that is possible.
Lastly that "drop in the bucket" excuse has had its day. In the case of Golden, their own description states "Our products are well accepted in China, North American and European markets. Over 80% of our products are exported to international markets." So for the vast majority, 80% of your business, you ignore emails, parts requests and documentation? Give that drop in the bucket thing a rest it is just a convenient rationalization for a total absence of customer service and no quality control. It is true of the Chinese hub market in general only. Please no one look behind the curtain at the mighty OZ I mean Phil.
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Give that drop in the bucket thing a rest it is just a convenient rationalization for a total absence of customer service and no quality control. It is true of the Chinese hub market in general only. Please no one look behind the curtain at the mighty OZ I mean Phil.
There's nothing wrong with shaking the odd tree to see what falls out of it.. :P However. I bought golden motors gear from a Australian retailer. EV power Australia
1: I got very good help from Ev Power Australia Rod Dykes.
2: I'm sure he would measure up a hub for his customer to save us both $200 in shipping costs.
3: He does return items based on mutal trust and I get them in the mail 2-3 working days.
4: I can call my retailer anytime during office hours for help or advice, He even was a good shoulder when it all went to the dogs one day.
Now does this make any sense. Anyone that thinks you should buy direct from a factory imo adds risk...
Find a good site or forums get, chatting to some good honest people, find out a good retailer that tests the gear before they ship it...
I rang 5 places up before I decided to pick my retailer.
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I rang 5 places up before I decided to pick my retailer.
[/quote]
Good idea!
Too bad it is not relevant for US customers. Here there is only a un-caring distributer in Oakland, CA who has only taken my money and never replied to my questions.
eMail: gm@perfecteam.net
Perfecteam
5969 Shattuck Ave.
Oakland, Ca 94609-1434
Tel/Fax: 510-655-1069
eMail: gm@perfecteam.net
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Feel free to send questions....... ::)
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hi Chris, I'm sorry the info you need is trickling so slowly if at all. but I can say your opinion on GM is very sensible and hasn't been tossed around here before. the "orthodox" view simply doesn't match the facts as I see them and so I distrust that view; yours seem more realistic.
> GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket.
bio-h, these two ideas have been repeated here over and over but I'm yet to see a shred of evidence; please direct me to it if you know where to find it. (not rhetoric, it's an honest request.)
btw bio-h, could you tell me what type are those two controllers that failed on you?
OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! power outage and I lost this whole message. It's a bit shorter now but that's how the cookie crumbles.
The two controllers were the GM regens in 36 and 48v. I am not quite ready to blame them yet as I have an old 36v throttle and lots of miles on the motor. Will need to check into these first to be sure.
As far as the size of the GM business it really makes no difference to me. They exist and I bought my motor kit from them. China is a long way off and trying to prove anything from this far off is difficult to say the least. It's like trying to prove the Bible is true one can translate it many ways and accept or deny the results as one wishes.
A bad motor, battery ect. will not have much of an affect in my life as I choose not to allow it to be so. I have more pressing things to concern myself with like how to get a new roof, the house painted the car fixed and the lawn mowed as I am no longer able to do any of these things. Being pretty much disabled these days changes a few things and is the reason I built the bike. Now I can get out and pass up the spandex kings for fun and we all need to have a little fun now and then. ;^) Makes me look healthy anyway as long as I pedal every now and then. ;^)
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thanks, please tell us what you find out.
> I am not quite ready to blame them yet as I have an old 36v throttle
if you doubt the throttle you can use a 1K to 22K potentiometer for testing. connect the two external pins of the pot to ground and +5V lines from the throttle connector, and the center tap to the throttle input line. add a 1K to 10k resistor between the center tap and the throttle input for added safety. be sure the pot is turned all the way towards the ground side (check zero ohms with multimeter) before turning on the power.
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if you doubt the throttle you can use a 1K to 22K potentiometer for testing. connect the two external pins of the pot to ground and +5V lines from the throttle connector, and the center tap to the throttle input line. add a 1K to 10k resistor between the center tap and the throttle input for added safety. be sure the pot is turned all the way towards the ground side (check zero ohms with multimeter) before turning on the power.
Yes this is that place I bothered joining.
Too right! and the above test works a charm.
To add some shine to the above post.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/fig2.gif)
It's is the same job as the hall sensors inside the hub.
Here is the circuit diagram of a hall sensor test.
oh by the way
BIO has that controller got those componants heat shrinked in black on the other side. If so it might be a bit like the charger I fixed, test those .1k ohm 3 watt resistor and the big diodes...
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Can the OP post a pic of the part (bush) with a big red arrow pointing at it so I measure the right bit and get it right the first time .
Im going into the bike shop tomorrow to look at how things are going, Im pretty sure nothing has happened. An im going to have to rim this hub by myself.
I don't have a vernia caliper or a micrometer but I'll do something either in 12 hours from now or 24, depending on whether he can get this 700cc rim on my hub.
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> if you doubt the throttle...
I was referring to how to work the controller without a functioning throttle. of course you should test the throttle first. you can just hook up a 3V~5V source (such as the controller itself) and measure the output (with no pull-up resistor; this is an analog hall).
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Eeek I floated through your post and assumed the throttle test was what you were saying, where opposites meet, the end never defeats the means and the tree does make a sound when it falls.
(with no pull-up resistor; this is an analog hall).
I was pondering about the analogueness of this circuit and yet again Lanchon you help place yet another piece of that puzzle firmly in place...
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Yes it has the diode and resister with heat shrink on the other side. Marked components have continuity in both directions. Appreciate the help from all of you that's what is great about this forum. Things getting done a bit slower than I would like so may be a a day or two before I get to all of this troubleshooting.
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Marked components have continuity in both directions. Appreciate
Diodes should only allow current in one direction And block in the other. and you should get a .5 volt drop though th diode alone, comtinuity is not enough to test those resistors too, test the ohm set on your multimeter set at 200 ohm setting and you should read .1ohm if you get nothing its gone.
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Yup you are correct but that is best measured when they are not in the circuit as the other stuff in there could be giving me grief.
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Yup you are correct but that is best measured when they are not in the circuit as the other stuff in there could be giving me grief.
Yes cut them off and don't solder them off stay clear of the pcb, and use some nice wire to replace them.
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Have a really good solder station at werq and lots of electronic tools also so will wait till tomorrow and take the broken things with me. There are a couple of very well educated electronics guys there that can help too if I give them a hard enough time. ;^) Hey I am a full member now but you have more posts than me so looks like I will have to post a bunch of useless information to catch up? ;^) Justin rode through the remnants of a hurricane and is almost at the end of his cross Canada ride on the ES forum. What a great thing to have under your belt. Guess he had some of the same problems along the way as me as of late controllers and broken spokes. Go figure.
OOPS!!! I fergot I have an extra e-crazyman 72v controller just sitting the there cuz I bought the wrong one the first time. Wonder if I can change a few things and run it on 48v? Just a thought.
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Replacing these if you find will prolly not fix the board. Sorry it was 230:am I didnt think the circuit out much and this is where Lanchon's guidance may benefit us all a little.
I gather These are protection components that stop the motor frying the fets and if one or two they are gone remember the fets they came off of as this may give you more of a clue as to which ones are blown.
Lowest wattage iron you can get your hands on 10/15 watts should be fine. Make sure you have a nice smooth pointed iron with well tinned surface before you go near that board. Use a solder sucker or some copper braid or twist and flaten some copper and draw it across the surface of the solder contacts as you remove the solder. I would probaby use a solder sucker.
Remember the longer you have the iron on the PCB the more of chance you will have catastrophic failure.
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Can the OP post a pic of the part (bush) with a big red arrow pointing at it so I measure the right bit and get it right the first time .
Im going into the bike shop tomorrow to look at how things are going, Im pretty sure nothing has happened. An im going to have to rim this hub by myself.
I don't have a vernia caliper or a micrometer but I'll do something either in 12 hours from now or 24, depending on whether he can get this 700cc rim on my hub.
Thanks again for this. I can't send you a photo until the end of the week when I will be able to access a motor.
It is a sleeve around the axle that protrudes several millimeters outside the motor cover. They are used on both sides of the motor, I am after the wire side bushing dimensions in case the other side is a different length. Earlier versions were bronze.
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It is a sleeve around the axle that protrudes several millimeters outside the motor cover. They are used on both sides of the motor, I am after the wire side bushing dimensions in case the other side is a different length. Earlier versions were bronze.
Yep..
Bike shop dude hasnt done the wheel yet but im getting it done tomorrow.
He has a caliper too so I can get this done for you latest 30 hours time..
I found some journal pics when I fixed some fudged wires,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/bush.jpg)
Like this????
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> if one or two they are gone remember the fets they came off of as this may give you more of a clue as to which ones are blown.
good advice. just desolder one end of the pair to test which component is at fault.
> I am after the wire side bushing dimensions in case the other side is a different length.
I've read GM hubs come with all sorts of problems in these bushings. some are short and don't protrude out of the hub while others are ridiculously long. many people just use some kind of piece tube instead. don't worry about the "standard" length, these are apparently hand made and all very different. IMHO the important things are that the inner surface is flat so that it distributes the inward force evenly and the length matches your build requirements.
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Hey BioHman, in your posted pic's (Sept. 28) can you point out the mosfets in the GM controller for me? I'm still confussed if the are located in the controller or BMS unit?........Cheers
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I'm still confussed if the are located in the controller or BMS unit?........Cheers
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/fet.jpg)
Done... :D
BTW the BMS (Balance Monitoring System) are for Lifepo4 and new chemistry batteries and the controller is called a BLDC, (BrushLess Direct Current) motor controller.
This will help a little.
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> I'm still confussed if the are located in the controller or BMS unit?
common BMS'es also have FETs but people here usually refer to the controller FETs.
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OK, so the Mosfets are locaterd where?.....in the hub motor or in the BMS unit? & can they burn out with regn braking mode?...Cheers
I thought I detected a little more confusion in this post so just incase I thought I'd set things straight. All these acronyms at first glance can confuse the hell out of anyone.
Yes the ones used in BMS's are used as a regulator and the one in controller is used for signal amplfiers for PWM.
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Ok the parts dimension. I'm sick of pulling this thing apart and to be honest Lanchon nailed it, the two hubs I own differ and you want your hub to be the full wide regardless of how long mine is.. the diameter of the bush is most improtant and it is 15mm, convert that to inches but mm are better. Mine protrudes from the outer housing of the hub 6.1 mm.. I would improvise that depending on the other side of your hub. Make the sum length of the axel two washers smaller than the width of your rear forks or front forks..
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Ok the parts dimension. I'm sick of pulling this thing apart and to be honest Lanchon nailed it, the two hubs I own differ and you want your hub to be the full wide regardless of how long mine is.. the diameter of the bush is most improtant and it is 15mm, convert that to inches but mm are better. Mine protrudes from the outer housing of the hub 6.1 mm.. I would improvise that depending on the other side of your hub. Make the sum length of the axel two washers smaller than the width of your rear forks or front forks..
It looks different than in your photo but the location is correct and with the description of function given by you and Lanchon I am sure I can have a suitable replacement fabricated as it would seem a few thousanth's of an inch won't make a difference.
I am tempted instead to send the unit back if Visa will refund just because I am so tired of the disgraceful performance of Golden previously described.
My objective in dealing with Golden among others was to work with a reliable vendor and if the results warrant, purchase product in resale quantities. Someone from Halifax mentioned something similar, he had been planninng to invest around 250K in product. Golden obviously isn't up to the task and you were right to purchase through a reseller who will support the product even if Phil won't. Thanks again for your help.
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I am tempted instead to send the unit back if Visa will refund just because I am so tired of the disgraceful performance of Golden previously described.
My objective in dealing with Golden among others was to work with a reliable vendor and if the results warrant, purchase product in resale quantities. Someone from Halifax mentioned something similar, he had been planninng to invest around 250K in product. Golden obviously isn't up to the task and you were right to purchase through a reseller who will support the product even if Phil won't. Thanks again for your help.
With all your asking and I did try to pull the motor apart at the shop for you, almost fudged my windings, one or two electro magents got a little seperated with their damned screw drivers and I bought a vernia caliper for this.
The bike shop guy failed to rim the hub with the eyelet type 700cc rim because he tried to drill the eyelets out to fit the 12 gauge nipples with a bench drill and he spun the eyelets lose, fudged the rim. I told him to use a round file. And he was talking to me about taking my time with this stuff. I hung around that stupid shop on and off for a week waiting for him to wreck a rim TAKE MY TIME?. Shesh!
You better repair it. :-[ Please! ;)
^
Joke..
lol its all good. You have more problems than me maybe.
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Here yar
Best answer?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/wheeldim2.gif)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/wheeldiim4.gif)