GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: gm nooby on June 17, 2011, 09:45:46 PM
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hello everyone :).does anybody know which pole coming out of the internal mp is positive? rubber boot or bare pin.thanks.
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typically in electronics, the positive is always the one booted....impretty sure this is the case here too, not 100% ( cause im drunk), but.... drunk sure....
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my guess is the bare pin.but im gonna wait and see if anyone else chimes in.i don't feel like opening the hub for this. ::)
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The Positive lead should have a covered female terminal on the battery cable, which connects to the exposed male terminal on the motor harness as shown here:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image)
This should hopefully remove all doubt.
Alan
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thank you,well for some reason I got no mp movement.ive just got the throttle hooked up,and it does not work.do I have to plug anything else in? ive never worked with one of these internal pies.thanks again.
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If the battery and throttle are connected, it should run when the throttle is operated.
Does the hub beep when the battery is connected, and if so, how many beeps are there?
What voltage battery are you using?
Alan
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no beeping, im using 24v sla,just for testing.there good batteries and charged up.but I do have 36v lithium im going to hook up after I get it to work.thanks,and no, I didnt hook up anything backwards,ive built quite a few ebikes before,this was a used hub from gary,and he said it should work.so we will see whats wrong somehow. :)
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well I got the wheel spinning by unplugging and moving the throttle connector,if I plug it in all the way nothing happens,if I just touch the connections before it snaps in. the wheel turns :-\.but still no beeping.the throttle doesnt do anything,its just wide open.i know this throttle was good,ill have to check the plug in the harness.any suggestions?
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Hi Nooby
Is this the one to BC last week? I tested it before I took it off the bike. It worked fine at that time.
Gary
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yup thats me.it spins but no beeps and or throttle.i know this throttle worked great,its just a standard cheaper throttle.any suggestions gary?
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seems that there may be a lot of bad wiring harnesses lately ?
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If the throttle wires are connected to the correct wires on the harness, then it's most likely a poor connection on the black wire is preventing a good ground connection.
Carefully check the pins where they are crimped onto the wires to confirm you have good connections.
Without a good ground connection, the throttle will be sending a full throttle signal voltage to the controller. When the battery is initially connected, the motor will not run at full throttle because of a safety feature within the controller, but if the throttle is unplugged and plugged back in again, the wheel will then run at full speed. :o
The voltage between the Red and Black wire on the throttle should be approx 5 Volts. If it's not correct, try checking the voltage between the Black wire and battery negative connection, this should be 0 Volts.
Check out this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2796.msg16736#msg16736) for more details.
Alan
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well :P.
red throttle wire 5v
white wire 0v
black 0v
the person I was building the bike for came by today and said,so can I ride to work? I just laughed :o.
ive tried to reset by unplugging battery etc.the throttle still wide open,perhaps the white wire throttle sensor is not sending-receiving signal? I don't see the magic in the pie install so far.these connectors should be improved.
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If the throttle has 5V on the red and 0V on the black there should be a variable voltage on the white wire of between 0.8V and 4.5V as the throttle is operated.
As you have a reading of 0V on the signal wire (and assuming the throttle is OK) you either have a broken signal wire on the throttle side, or it must be short circuited to a ground wire somewhere on the harness side.
Check the voltage on all three wires on the throttle side of the connector, and then check the harness side to see if they are the same, any differences here would indicate a poor connection between the pins and sockets.
The motor should only run if the voltage on the White signal wire is above 1.25V.
If the motor runs fast, but stops as soon as you unplug the throttle, it could be that the white and black leads have somehow been connected the wrong way around.
It might also be worth checking for any damaged or shorted wires where the harness exits the Pie's axle, as the sides of the slot can be very sharp.
Alan
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thanks Alan for helping :).im sick of it for today,i actually got this for a easy install,guess I was taught a lesson.now I have to learn all the wiring, troubleshooting etc.been reading all day and yesterday about mp. the white throttle plug from the motor reads 0v.but I don't give up,i will get this going or in the recycle it goes.cant imagine my friend buying this and trying to install it.i will try again on tuesday. ;)
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Hello again Nooby,
I really don't understand what happened here. Before I shipped it, I tested it and it worked fine. It was still on one of my bikes and being used regularly. I am not 100 percent clear on the problem. You say "it spins but no beeps or throttle". What does that mean? Do you mean you spin it by hand or it spins on its own? You can ship it back to me and I’ll refund you. But considering the cost was only about 70 dollars it will cost more to ship with the Canada Post strike then its worth. Can you check the continuity of the 8 pin wire harness to see if all the wires are still good?
Gary
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hi gary,its firing up through 24v wot only on electric power,people have asked does the mp beep? ive never heard anything from the hub while adding power or plugging unplugging the throttle ever. im going to go get a new throttle mon-tues,and start there,then check the multiple pin adapter on the output for accessories.
im in this far so I will keep going,thanks for having good business sense,ive read nothing but good about you,and thats why I purchased from you.i will fix this somehow 8).my guess is the cable from the connector, but when working with electrics anything is possible.
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Hi All
Gary, was it set for 48V, could LVC be wrong ?...maybe not, reading whole thread, but how was your setup ??? controller etc
Just a guess....
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Hmm, Gingy has a good point there.
I assume you are going to run it at 48 volts so why not try that before "stripping it down". I was running it at 48 volts and I believe you told me you were going to run it at 48 volts, so I never even considered doing anything with the configuration.
Gary
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:o.i thought 24 36 48v didnt matter which one you used.didnt want to damage the 36v,with the motor controller acting funny, so I configured a 24v sla pack for trial runs.im going to get a throttle monday so tests will continue.the wheel spun up fine at wot,but thats all the settings I had on-off by plugging the throttle in partway.i did say I wanted to use 36v girly voltage.
maybe I will solder the throttle connections if I can get a white wire signal?
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Hi Nooby
I'm sure the forum here can get you all up and running :)
I was a little curious about the throttle, when you say WOT I assume you mean 'wide open throttle' - in this case the controller will not power the wheel when its switched on with open throttle. So if you powered the unit up, with open throttle, and tested the white wire it would read 0v as the 5v power would have been cut by the controller.
If when you power up the wheel, and then fully depress the throttle, and only then the wheel spins then I would assume it is the throttle itself, and not the connection. Just to be sure you can solder the wire here. I don't think you are using a GM throttle? Not that it matters so much, but it could hopefully be as unlucky as using the wrong throttle
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hey monkeymagic,the connection from the wiring harness for throttle white wire, reads zero,even if I unplug the battery to reset,now I know nothing about mp,but im learning as I go, but I would assume there should be v at the throttle signal output,Bikemad says there is.the throttle itself will do nothing slow med fast.just wot wide open throttle,when partially plugged in,and wot when fully plugged in.
but I will check the output plug comin outta the motor tuesday and have a new throttle then.so we will see if I can troubleshoot the problem.as far as past motor controllers go, if it spins there is something amiss with signal and not hub.i gotta go read what you typed again to answer correctly what you asked and or said ;D.maybe the answer is there?thanks
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Hi noobs
With regards to the configuration, even though the controller will run on different voltages, the voltage setting sets the lowest voltage that the controller will run on , to protect the battery...if the controller is set to 48V, then it wont run below 42V....
you may in fact be dealing with 2 seperate problems that appear to be one :D
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well I just wired up a new throttle,but im guessing I need to buy a dollar store usb cable worth 50 bucks :o.in order to change to 36v.anybody have one they would lend me,i can put full money purchase in holding since im a gmnooby.then I can figure out the throttle problem.ow ya no shipping here!damn it.
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ok I put anderson power poles on the motor + -output lead.new throttle 24v wot,41.7v dead.so im probably past lvc of 48v setting.guess I gotta open the motor up and reconfig? im frustrated to say the least :-[.
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whereaboutsdo you live, or did I miss that in the post ??
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Nooby, I'm not convinced the controller is set at 48V, as you have already had it running on 24V.
You should be able to carry out a simple test to see if the throttle circuit on the motor side is OK by connecting a small piece of wire (reshaped paper clips work well for this) between pins no 4 and 6 on the 8 pin motor socket which should make the motor run at full speed:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2040.0;attach=1859;image)
Make sure the wheel is raised off the ground and that the power is turned on before you insert the wire.
Be very careful to only put it into the correct holes or you could damage the controller or wiring.
This diagram shows the wiring on my early Magic Pie, but as least it shows where contacts 4 and 6 are located:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image)
Click image to view full size.
If the motor spins, this would indicate that the speed controller and the motor wiring harness are OK.
If this works as expected, remove the wire and plug the main wiring harness back in, and then repeat the same test, but use the red and white wire connections on the throttle connector instead.
If the motor does not spin when 4 and 6 are linked, it could be due to a controller fault or a break (or short) somewhere along the thin red wire which runs between the controller and the socket.
With the throttle disconnected, the motor should run at half speed when you connect the cruise control wires together with a wire link.
Let us know what you find.
whereaboutsdo you live, or did I miss that in the post ??
Ginge, it was mentioned earlier, but I'll give you a little clue to save you having to look back through the posts:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Yellowhead-pass_sign.jpg/450px-Yellowhead-pass_sign.jpg)
Alan
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ok tests performed 24v.i bridged 4 and 6 at the plugin and its wot,wide open throttle.then at throttle plug red white,wide open throttle.then cruise control is dead no movement.
edit-if I completely plug in throttle connection -its dead,throttle will not work.but just touching connector its wot.
edit-if I plug in my lithium 41.0v nothing works.its a top grade fully functional factory battery.
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I suspect you may either have a poorly crimped connection on one of the throttle connector pins/sockets, or the throttle unit itself could be faulty or incorrectly wired.
Push the negative voltmeter probe into the back of the pedelec connector (the large white three pin connector) where the black wire goes in, and it should stay there on its own, making a good ground connection for the meter.
Re-check the voltages of all three connections on both sides of the throttle connector (main harness and throttle lead) with the positive probe:
Red +5V supply should be ~5V
Black ground connection should be 0V
White (throttle signal) should be ~1V with the throttle released and >3.25V with throttle held wide open.
Alan
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the throttle is good.i just noticed when I got sick of testing with the pedelec ground,i dropped the whole harness and the wheel started spinning, I can tell there is a short in the line somewhere.im pissed right now,my back is getting strained from all this Magic Pie workout. ??? &**&.
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holy sh!t!!! about a foot back on the cable before the connectors,if I bent the cable the motor would start.so I cut open the cable found the wires I need 35 mins later, twisted them together on my throttle and it works!now if thats not screwey nothing is.i need a nap now. ;)
if we ever get mail going, gary gets a ft long piece of cable with ends on it,so you can see what I went through! ;D
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There you go, simple wasn't it ???
Sorry just kidding.
Maybe it got kinked in the box. I don't know. I can't even recall packing it or how I packed it. I do recall feeling guilty about how dirty it was. Please give it a shine and lets see some pictures :)
Glad to hear you have success! Now that you are an expert you can teach others with all you have learned. It's the GM Training school. The torch has been passed by the forum to you now. ;D
Gary
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Nooby, I'm pleased to hear you've finally got it working correctly.
Perhaps I should have asked this before, but is it a front or rear wheel you have?
I'm guessing it's a front wheel, as the wiring on the front motors is much more likely to suffer from fatigue within the cable due to the constant movement of the steering caused by Gary's wobbly riding technique. ::)
A rear motor would only suffer from metal fatigue within the cable if Gary's bike had rear suspension, which I don't recall seeing in any of his pictures.
Are the wires just a single strand of rigid copper, or are they flexible multi-stranded wires?
If we ever get mail going, gary gets a ft long piece of cable with ends on it, so you can see what I went through! ;D
Upload a picture and we can all see it, and you'll save yourself the unnecessary expense of additional postage costs!
Even with this unexpected wiring hassle, it's still a real bargain at $70. Gary, have you got any more Pies for sale at a similar giveaway price? ;)
Alan
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haha the wheel was 138.00 shipped. I wanted for my girl a low wire, controller built in bike.so now the work starts fixing it up properly. mounting, brackets etc. it is a rear wheel,long crappy cable install.those cables are very very bad!!!well I can say 1 thing,its runnin ;D.thanks everyone who pitched in to help I appreciate it.now I can help others with there mp bad cable problems.Bikemad has the crown.those pics helped alot.
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Actually the deal was 100 shipped. Because it doesnt have the straightest rim and its used. But the damn postal strike started so Nooby chipped in another 38 so he didnt have to wait for the lazy government shlubs to be legislated back to work. Originally it would have worked out to 70 plus approx 30 shipping but it ended up more do to the lazy shlubs not yet being forced back to work. Did I mention the lazy shlubs yet? Even though I stopped using canada post several days before the lockout I still have people with there stuff stuck in the mail due to the laz... well you get it..
Gary
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A rear motor would only suffer from metal fatigue within the cable if Gary's bike had rear suspension, which I don't recall seeing in any of his pictures.
Alan
Are you forgetting my current road warrior :)
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/036.jpg)
this is the build...
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3090.0
But actually the wheel is off of my retired joyEbike so you are correct about the rear suspension but the tire was actually off the back.
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/TwoPieTwoBatteryTwoCycleAnalystTwoHeadLight.jpg)
This motor starred in the following video and if you listen to it you will see this is the rear internal motor that outperformed my external front pie.
So maybe you don't want to stab this one with a USB cable. Anyway here is the video, its a snoozefest but you can see how I liked that motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcYOSIgLSo
Which reminds me, I still have this one for sale as well..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWhF5qtbkHA
Gary
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You have a question for price on youtube.... might leave a reply there:)