GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Henkav on August 04, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
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Hi,
With some help from Tom I measured the battery Voltages and they were all to low.
So I wanted to charge the battery and found out that there was no difference in Voltages at the cells.
So I did measure the charger and found out that I only had about 6 to 7 volt output.
So far not much fun with my E-bike kit witch I bought 3 weeks ago.
And yeh, my wheel is as round as an egg, like manny other wheels I guess. >:(
Greatings Henk
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What I was thinking about is, did the charger broke down because of the failure of the battery yesterday or is it just bad luck.
Greatings Henk
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What I was thinking about is, did the charger broke down because of the failure of the battery yesterday or is it just bad luck.
Greatings Henk
Maybe "first" test the battery at the charger points to see if there is a voltage there for the charger to work. No need to push probes in all the way just get the voltage and its polarity orientation.
If there is no voltage then test the resistance to find if there maybe a short circuit. There will be 0 volts and 0 resistance or the polarity is reversed to the charger plug if the battery charging circuit is causing the charger to fail. Wise to check these things before putting another battery charger on there.
What did the voltage test on your pack, And what pack did you buy?]
When you get a new charger test the charger plug to see if its the same polarity as the battery charger port.
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Hi,
I did measure the charger without connection to the battery.
I got 6 Volt out of it.
The battery measurement of the B 1 to 10 points I mailt it to you this morning.
Here are the measurements again:
I opened the Battery and measured the next Voltages:
B negative side
B1 yellow wire(the second wire) 3.3 V
B2 yellow wire(the third wire) 6,6 V
B3 yellow wire(the fourth wire) 9,9 V
B4 yellow wire(the fifth wire) 13,2 V
B5 yellow wire(the sixth wire) 16,5 V
B6 yellow wire(the seventh wire) 19,8 V
B7 yellow wire(the eighth wire) 23,1 V
B8 yellow wire(the ninth wire) 26,5 V
B9 black wire (the tenth wire) 29,8V
B10 33,2 V
So everything is a bit low I believe.
And these measurment are with nothing connected to the battery.
I've got everything from GoldenMotor
Its a 36 Volt 12 AH set.
Greatings Henk
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Hi,
I did measure the charger without connection to the battery.
I got 6 Volt out of it.
The battery measurement of the B 1 to 10 points I mailt it to you this morning.
Here are the measurements again:
I opened the Battery and measured the next Voltages:
B negative side
B1 yellow wire(the second wire) 3.3 V
B2 yellow wire(the third wire) 6,6 V
B3 yellow wire(the fourth wire) 9,9 V
B4 yellow wire(the fifth wire) 13,2 V
B5 yellow wire(the sixth wire) 16,5 V
B6 yellow wire(the seventh wire) 19,8 V
B7 yellow wire(the eighth wire) 23,1 V
B8 yellow wire(the ninth wire) 26,5 V
B9 black wire (the tenth wire) 29,8V
B10 33,2 V
So everything is a bit low I believe.
And these measurment are with nothing connected to the battery.
I've got everything from GoldenMotor
Its a 36 Volt 12 AH set.
Greatings Henk
Hi again.
Lookng good and balanced on the BMS ok, needs a good charge and balance charge. Leave it on the new charger for a long time.. Its ok to let the battery live on the charger.
Do you get any volts out of the socket on the battery where the charger plug into in the actual charger socket it needs to be tested to say that it is not the problem. The charger socket may be soldered wrong in the battery causing the charger to fail.
Thank you.
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Hi,
"Leave it on the new charger for a long time.. Its ok to let the battery live on the charger."
At this moment I do not have an extra charger.
So this is not an option for this moment.
"Do you get any volts out of the socket on the battery where the charger plug into in the actual charger socket it needs to be tested to say that it is not the problem. The charger socket may be soldered wrong in the battery causing the charger to fail."
The voltage is 32 Volt. Its the same as the output of the battery.
The socker is soldered correct. The "+" is the middle point of the socket.
Greatings, Henk
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Hi,
The voltage is 32 Volt. Its the same as the output of the battery.
The socker is soldered correct. The "+" is the middle point of the socket.
Greatings, Henk
Thats good so if and when you get a new charger you will sure to test its polarity, and from our understanding a good charger should work on your battery,
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Thanx Tom for youre help.
Do Goldenmotor has some kind of warranty system.
Or do I have to buy a new Charger by myself.
And what if the new charger will go defect again because of the battery.
I still believe that the battery is working correctly.
Because I had 2 led light on while the Magic Pie didn't rotate anymore.
Greatings Henk
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Hello!
I am not TOM,
I am Les :D
You need to contact TOM at zhourenli@goldenmotor.com and do some tests with him. Maybe show a link to this thread where he can see you have done some tests already.
Make the email short, detailed and to the point, Send order details, name and address, some basic proof of purchase.
Avoid the life stories how you drank coffee when this happened and how fast your bike goes and what not.
Stay right on the mark with your Email. TOMS English isnt good so use common used words..
GM are extremely busy wit some huge orders to be shipped ATM. I think GM should send you a new charger as long as you didn't damage it yourself. You may have to be a little patient.
While you wait it maybe a good idea to find a way to get a few volts in the pack.
Please unplug your pack from the controller and do not use any more capacity until you get some volts into it.
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Thanx Les for all youre help.
Sorry I colled you Tom.
I did send Tom an E-Mail, so I'll wait.
Greatings
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Today I got myself a new 36 Volt charger. (not from GM)
It was OK before I connected it. (I measured the voltage)
And as soon I connected it to the battery it went broke.
So now I've got 2 defect charger because of the Goldenmotor battery.
I defenetly believe that my LIFO4 battery is defect.
Whats next to do?
Greatings Henk
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Good news,
I did repair my 2e charger and I could load the battery and its looks like it is working OK now.
Today I did ride the bike for 17 KM without any problem.
The only problem left is the Charger I got from Goldenmotor.
That one is defently defect.
Thanx all for you're help
Greatings Henk :D
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enjoy! ;D
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I did repair my 2e charger
Interesting, I am intrigued. What did you find was wrong with the charger and how did you fix it? I seem to be getting something from my charger but having read about the so called battery condition indicators (LED's on the throttle) I am about to buy an analyser. My prospective 'e-bike dashboard' on the mental drawing board is starting to look l aircraft instrument array. It seems so many others have been here and done just that with monitors for every conceivable possibility....has anyone seen an e-bike cappuccino machine (36 volt of course)? ;D
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I mailed Tom for asking for a new charger because the Goldenmotor charger was defect.
So far nothing from GM.
I don't know if GM has some kind of warranty for people who buy there stuff.
So if you thinking about buying things from GM, go to a GM dealer and not from the internetsite.
So when you've got problems, you can go to the dealer in youre own country.
Greetings, Henk
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I mailed Tom for asking for a new charger because the Goldenmotor charger was defect.
So far nothing from GM.
I don't know if GM has some kind of warranty for people who buy there stuff.
So if you thinking about buying things from GM, go to a GM dealer and not from the internetsite.
So when you've got problems, you can go to the dealer in youre own country.
Greetings, Henk
Thanks Henk. As soon as I mentioned a replacement charger Tom changed the subject and said it could be the battery pack? Oh the variables of cutting edge technology how fickle.
I think that goes without saying judging from posts across this forum. I have been reading up because I can't find a dealer in Australia. What looks like their product is not necessarily being advertised as such. Do you know if anyone has succeeded in finding a website for these guys who build the chargers: Sans Electronic Co., Ltd. Building No. E, Industrial YanDai, Battery Charger (Li-ion Battery Charger)SSLC084V42 ... Seems all the lights are on but nobody home? :-\ Since the pulsing charger with red LED and relay noise was actually charging but when it stopped pulsing the voltage wound down to zero (no green light) I decided to put the charger on a 24 hour timer with 30 minute intervals. I gradually built up the volts in the pack to 37.5 but I noticed on a short run that twisting the throttle killed the green LED on the battery indicator, which came back on when I released the throttle. I am not very keen on doing any distance and end up in the middle of nowhere with a flat battery again. I can't see this battery lasting long with 20+ charge cycles to fill it. One of those Ikea timers has died already. It seems the most frequently used description from one end of the kit to the other is dying died snuffed it or is very dead...disturbing to say the least? I have run out of pocket money for a while the analysers seem to be the next logical step. One for the bike and one for the workshop that has a USB connection to my PC. If anyone else has used one of those maybe thay can share their wisdom with us?
Cheers onetom2
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Hi onetom2,
You wrote "Thanks Henk. As soon as I mentioned a replacement charger Tom changed the subject and said it could be the battery pack?"
He asked me to send some pictures.
I still dont'n know why?
Greetings, Henk
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Likely this is a source of entertainment. Or perhaps he wanted to compare cameras since I sent him one to request definition of instructions...the wires are different colours and different labels to what he wrote?
I debated with myself for a couple days over his request for me to open my battery pack and do some voltage reading since breaking the seal on the battery pack where I come from was an immediate void of any warranty. But then I realised just the manner of communication had more or less ruled out any such guarantee. As you so aptly pointed out a dealer in Australia would have been the best warranty but I didn't expect to have this much trouble the widespread use of electric bikes in China and the impression of s company with a global market. It was only after experiencing problems right from the start I was reminded of a conversation about the technical complexity of Lithium Phosphate4 chargers a couple of years ago. The down to earth engineer telling me to steer clear since the chargers were such expensive pieces of electronics. Obviously the GM charger isn't. ::)(http://)
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I gradually built up the volts in the pack to 37.5 but I noticed on a short run that twisting the throttle killed the green LED on the battery indicator, which came back on when I released the throttle. I am not very keen on doing any distance and end up in the middle of nowhere with a flat battery again.
Tom, your battery pack consists of 40 x 4Ah cells, configured as 10 groups of 4 paralleled cells, which are then connected in series to produce a nominal voltage of 38V with 16Ah capacity.
If your pack is only being charged to 37.5V, that's only 3.75V per cell, so your pack is already 95% discharged before you even set off!
You're not going to go very far using just the last 5% of your battery's capacity (approx 0.8Ah), and it's not recommended to completely discharge the battery pack if you want to maximise its life expectancy.
Your battery should be almost 42V when it is charged correctly, and until this happens, I would recommend you try not to use it.
The following diagram shows a typical discharge curve for a Lithium Manganese cell, which should give you a rough indication as to the current level of your pack.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2181.0;attach=2313;image)
I do hope Tom (GM Tom) is able to sort your problem out soon, as it must be extremely frustrating for you.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_crazy_hair_230608.GIF)
Alan
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Thanks Alan.
Thank you very much for that confirmation of pending disaster. I made the original mistake of riding the bike unaware of the chargers inability to charge as the indicators gave me all lights on. But I suppose I was actually taking the battery down to empty with no clear indication until the very last gasp and the lights went out. I wanted those extra volts but worried about the short bursts of battery relay pulsing that could run from 5 10 or even 20 minutes and then stop not knowing the long term effect on the pack. I had been checking those 10 wires over and over day after day with .5 of a volt gained every so often. Judging from what has been said on this forum the likelihood of paying for a charger to be sent out that actually works is "Pie in the sky" (did I say Pie?) I have a mini actually. I concluded I was not going to risk an attempt at any distance records until I had an analyser on board. That could be months away on my pension budget. Its a funny thing that I can't explain but I don't get frustrated nor waste emotional energy any more. I sincerely appreciate your input Alan, Its the basic laws I am totally unaware of and I am working blind. There seems to be nothing useful available in Australia regarding concrete practical knowledge in this area, those who might know are not about to divulge their knowledge, its currency.
The pack strings appear to be OK albeit charging staccato style. I guess the theory is throw some more money often enough and your bound to strike lucky eventually? Thanks for you sympathetic words.
Onetom2
Tom