GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: waynebw on March 09, 2008, 10:42:58 AM
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I've had my Golden Motor 500W Regen kit (with 3xSLAs) for about 2 months now, and has been great!
Just today, things changed. It suddenly started shuddering when I applied the throttle, and would only go very very slow. I tried riding it and using the throttle, and it seemed to go a little faster, then it went perfect for about 20 seconds and suddenly got really heavy (like the regen was on 100%).
The controller was hotter then normal after this.
I checked the wiring, and noticed one of the 3 thin wires (I believe connected to the throttle control) was not connected properly. The green middle one. When I reconnected, the bike still had a shuddering or resistance problem. I disconnected everything, and rode the bike home, but it still had some resistance from the motor.
Now, when I turn on the bike, about 2 second later, the controller makes a whining sound, and if I attempt to move the bike, it has a lot of resistance. It seems to be fighting itself, like trying to go back and forth at the same time!?
I checked all my connections and it all seems fine.
I have ridden it in the rain a couple of times (the controller/wiring/batteries and fully protected) but could the motor or throttle controller have issues after getting wet?
Is there a way to know if it's a controller, wiring, or motor problem?
I don't care too much if it's the controller, as I want to get a 48v one anyway, but I don't want to go buy one if its the motor or something else that is broken.
Please help!
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Is there a way to know if it's a controller, wiring, or motor problem?...
My first guess is the controller, because the motor is a very simple thing basically, and the wiring even more simple. Checking the controller will involve an oszilloskope and things like this I guess, it's not trivial.
Good luck.
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I decided to have a look in the controller, and I saw a Diode just sitting loose under the circuit board!!
See these photos:
(http://www.behot.com.au/contr00.jpg)
(http://www.behot.com.au/contr01.jpg)
(http://www.behot.com.au/contr02.jpg)
(http://www.behot.com.au/contr03.jpg)
Is this the cause of the problem? One diode is completely fallen off, from where it looks like a short took place. And one of the other Diodes is split in half... I can solder and replace these, but I have no idea exactly where to solder the missing diode. The black area is probably one side, but where should I solder the other side?
Are there circuit diagrams on these controllers somewhere?
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Sounds like it lost signal from the hall sensors, was firing the phases at the wrong times, and generated a LOT of amps and waste heat which melted and killed certain parts of your controller. Ugh!
Certainly want to replace the two diodes. The 6 diodes look like they are probably connected between pins on the 6 MOSFETS on the other side of the board. If so, you can probably figure out the pin locations by comparing to the other 5 locations. Hopefully none of the MOSFETs were damaged by your problem.
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Thanks heaps :) Are the hall sensors in the motor? That wire that was lose might have been the issue then... Good idea about the mosfets, yes the diodes are connected to them so hopfully I can figure out where to connect the last diode.
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I just got new diodes, and soldered them on in the correct position. I talked to an electronics guy and he confirmed the correct position based on the other diodes.
I hooked it all up and turned the bike on...
I heard a 'pssst' noise, and saw that the fuse blew. Ah sh1t I give up, im sending it back under warranty.
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yes go for the warranty, you would also need to replace 4 fets if you wanted to fix it. also I saw your vid on youtube
nice setup but its a good idea to mount the controller out of the bag or it could overheat.
cheers
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Yes, the hall sensors are in the motors, they tell the controller the position of the motor at any given moment and the controller brain uses that information to sequence the fets on and off. A loose connection will tell the controller the motor is in a different position than it actually is; bad things follow.
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How do I identify the Hall sensors, and check they are ok?
Same for the 'FETs' is it correct I have to replace these, if so are they a common component I can get from my electronics store?
I got a reply back from EV Power (the reseller In Australia) and he will be sending a new controller under warranty, so I want to make sure the motor is all good to go, so please let me know if there's anything else I should do other than:
- Check Hall sensors
- Check in motor for shorts
- Check all wiring (actually I will solder all connections to ensure it's all good)
- Replace FETs ... or are these in the controller?
- Take controller out of bag to allow cooling
Please let me know if anything else should be done, I really don't want it to happen again :-/
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forget about the fets there in the controller, your geting a replacment anyway.
its a good idea to mount the controller out of the bag so it can cool.
and no ebike is water proof avoid riding on a rainy day. if it starts raining turn it off and pedal home. give it time to dry out.
a simple test for the hall sensors would be to install your new controller power it up lift the rear wheel and give it just a little gas to see if the hubmotor turns if not, turn it off and replace all three sensors there cheep and can be ordered from ebikes.ca.
you will need to open your hubmotor to do this, not a easy thing to do first time around. I do it by hand, a few people use a flywheel
puller used for small engine repair.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfu6_41WVf0
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forget about the fets there in the controller, your geting a replacment anyway.
its a good idea to mount the controller out of the bag so it can cool.
and no ebike is water proof avoid riding on a rainy day. if it starts raining turn it off and pedal home. give it time to dry out.
a simple test for the hall sensors would be to install your new controller power it up lift the rear wheel and give it just a little gas to see if the hubmotor turns if not, turn it off and replace all three sensors there cheep and can be ordered from ebikes.ca.
you will need to open your hubmotor to do this, not a easy thing to do first time around. I do it by hand, a few people use a flywheel
puller used for small engine repair.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfu6_41WVf0
Thanks Karma,
I opened up the motor, no problems at all, just to check the wiring etc, and everything looks fine. The 3 sensors in the motor are kind of glued in place, they look fine from what I can see, as does all the wiring. I inspected both sides of the motor.
Thanks for the tip regarding the controller and rain, I will take more care, but now the rain season is just finishing so I should be ok now! I think I will seal up the controller also, as, if it gets rained on it can't be good now it will be exposed.
I'll wait now until the controller gets here and hope all works out well.
Just a little tip I thought of also, when I opened the motor. The 2 plates on each side of the motor, had no sealant to waterproof it. I will line it with grease before closing just in case I get stuck in the rain.
I'll let u know how it goes, thanks again!
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To check the hall sensors you connect the +V and -V wires to a 5V source, then check for a signal on the signal wires as you turn the motor. The hall sensors go through the 5-wire harness. Red and black should be the power wires, the other three colors are for the hall sensor signals.
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Ev-power (Rod) got me a new controller within a week, so thumbs up the the Australian distributor.
I was happy to see that it was the standard controller (not re-gen) as some people mentioned this is much better in quality and reliability.
Anyway, today I hooked it all up and it works perfect! I actually soldered the connections to the motor, especially the power connections, as I'm paranoid about it now, so this will ensure no disconnections.
It's interesting to note the difference in the 2 controllers. The standard controller has a much better throttle response compared to the re-gen version. It also seems to drain more amps when accelerating, so I guess I need to take a little more care than before if I want to batteries to last. On my initial ride, I noticed it's much easier on your wrist now, as you don't need to be careful backing off the throttle, as the bike will freely roll. Before, with the re-gen controller this was a slight issue, causing my wrist some discomfort.
Oh, and I have mounted the controller outside the bag to allow cooling. The controller looks like it's properly waterproofed also, with rubber seals on the ends, and a silicon where the wires come out.
Anyway very happy its all working, and now I can stop using the car again now and save those precious $ by not buy fuel!
Edit: Forgot to ask, I only had access to 15A and 25A fuses...
What fuse should I use if I have:
36v 500W Golden Motor
3x12v SLA (7.2AH each)
I put the 25A one in, but My calculations tell me a 20A would be ideal?
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Yay for EV-Power. Glad to hear you're up and running again.
Let us know how your range estimate changes with the new, more agressive, controller. The regen controller was designed with a more conservative acceleration profile as it was assumed someone looking for regen was worried about power consumption. It also helps the marketing of it, because even if regen is mostly market hype (you do get some energy back, but it isn't a whole lot) you still have a longer range or less energy used due to the lower acceleration rate.
I would certainly go with the 25A fuse rather than the 15A one. The controller is rated at 20A, and can pull something higher than that for short periods of time.
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Nice troubleshooting. 20a is what you run at 30a gives protection for the wiring. Look back to page 3 in general discussion and read "why do I keep blowing 20a fuses. I got the original kit with the 36v12ah sla's in a box and the fuse was 30a.
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Hello,
I have the same problem.
I've had my Golden Motor 36V/500W kit for about 2,5 months now, and has been great!
Just last Friday, things changed. It suddenly started shuddering when I applied the throttle, and would only go very slow. I tried riding it and using the throttle, and it seemed to go a little faster, then it went perfect for about 1 minute and suddenly got really heavy.
I checked the wiring, and noticed one of the 3 thin wires (I believe connected to the throttle control) was not connected properly. The green middle one. When I reconnected, the bike still had a shuddering or resistance problem. I disconnected everything, and rode the bike home, but it still had some resistance from the motor.
Now, when I turn on the bike, the controller doesn't nothing, and if I attempt to move the bike, it has a lot of resistance. It seems to be fighting itself, like trying to go back and forth at the same time!?
I checked all my connections and it all seems fine.
At the moment the bike seems to be dead. I not have a signal.
I checked in the weekend in golden motor forum, and I see how to check if the problem is on the motor or controller.
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=358.0
After I check, the problem is on the controller. All the HALL SENSORS are responding, and if I disconnected the controller I don't have any resistance on the motor.
Please help!
The controller is different from that one on the picture. I don't see any diode.
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forget about the fets there in the controller, your geting a replacment anyway.
its a good idea to mount the controller out of the bag so it can cool.
and no ebike is water proof avoid riding on a rainy day. if it starts raining turn it off and pedal home. give it time to dry out.
a simple test for the hall sensors would be to install your new controller power it up lift the rear wheel and give it just a little gas to see if the hubmotor turns if not, turn it off and replace all three sensors there cheep and can be ordered from ebikes.ca.
you will need to open your hubmotor to do this, not a easy thing to do first time around. I do it by hand, a few people use a flywheel
puller used for small engine repair.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfu6_41WVf0
I have many miles of riding my GM in the rain and no trouble as of yet. I put the controller in a box and the throttle under it so both are somewhat protected. The motor wires are looped below the unsealed axle before entering it so water drips off. 2K miles on the bike thusfar I tossed the original rim and axle nuts and replaced many spokes as well as fried a controller because of some poor wiring werq.
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Thanks for your tip.
Yes, I received an e-mail from Mr. Philip Yao saying that I will receive a new controller soon.
I found this link that can help me and other people:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=led (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=led)
The picture of the controller is very similar the difference is only that mine is 36v/500w and this in the picture is 72v/1000w.
I think the led status indicator is the same? If so, we can make a faster diagnostic of the problem. What do you think?
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On the circuit board, there is a LED status indicator.
This is very similar to the Crystalyte v.2 controller.
Unfortunately, you have to take the controller apart to see it.
It would be possible to extend the LED to the outside with a pair of wires.
From what I can tell, the codes are:
No light: Motor running
1 flash: Standby, motor stopped
2 flashes: Throttle input fault or HV brake active
3 flashes: Locked rotor (start speed protection)
4 flashes:
5 flashes: High side FET shorted
6 flashes: Hall sensor fault
7 flashes:
8 flashes: Under voltage (LVC) active