GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: karen on May 29, 2010, 01:55:04 PM
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I just got my brand new JoyEbike, with PAS, thumb trottle and Magic pie, lights and all. Nice:D And jeeezzz... so fun.. problem tho.... 3 beeps when I turn the battery on... and nothing works... but when I press the red button with a bulb on on the right(got one on the thumbtrottle too) it starts.... on full speed.... making it a bit stressfull and I now have some spinningmarks in my driveway;) Im hopeless with this, but I suspect its something with the wires,since the wires to the horn was loose... I could fix that and now the horn works... what should I look for? Dont have and don't know how to use a voltmeter or what its called... Original wireing looks horrible...Suggestions appriciated on how to start finding the error:)
The other 3 beeps in the forum has half speed, but mine got full speed...
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Hello!
Connecting the red and white cables from the motor(I needed to take apart the plug from the motor to do this test) gives me full speed on the wheel. It may seem that your thumb throttle only give you full throttle? I had to get a new one from GM to fix my three beeps, but still no reaction on the motor when turning on the power and twisting the throttle. So any tips would be highly appreciated!!
Svein
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but when I press the red button with a bulb on on the right(got one on the thumbtrottle too) it starts.... on full speed.... making it a bit stressfull and I now have some spinningmarks in my driveway;) Im hopeless with this, but I suspect its something with the wires,since the wires to the horn was loose... I could fix that and now the horn works... what should I look for? Dont have and don't know how to use a voltmeter or what its called... Original wireing looks horrible...Suggestions appriciated on how to start finding the error:)
The other 3 beeps in the forum has half speed, but mine got full speed...
It is possible the throttle out is connected to the positive throttle power supply through that button and you are getting three beeps due to the lack of proper installation.
Do all your work with the bike wheel off the ground.
Either remove throttle from handle bars so it isnt damaged when turn the bike upside down so it rests on the seat and handle bars. Or lay it on the ground gentley so the extruding pedal keeps the the wheel off the ground.
Give me a minute to look at the wires.
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Is this the throttle,
Which side of the plug is going to the throttle and which side goes to the hub?
The top plug it looks to be red black brown. Looks odd to me.
And the bottom plug looks to be red black green looks like the throttle side.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2202.0;attach=2356;image)
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Hello!
Connecting the red and white cables from the motor(I needed to take apart the plug from the motor to do this test) gives me full speed on the wheel. It may seem that your thumb throttle only give you full throttle? I had to get a new one from GM to fix my three beeps, but still no reaction on the motor when turning on the power and twisting the throttle. So any tips would be highly appreciated!!
Svein
So you do still get full speed when you connect the red wire and white wire? Is the black wire connected?
The red wire is the 5v supply to the chip inside the throttle. The white wire is for the controller to know the speed you want. The black wire is what makes your bike not move when you have no twist on the throttle.
When you twist the throttle you take away the black wire effect of 0v on the white wire. The more you twist the less black wire effects the white wire and more red wire volts go through the white wire to the controller.
If no red wire power is going to the controller through the white you will get beeps. If your black wire is not connected you will get full 5v volts to controller and there is a safe funtction that should stop the bike from moving.
Your black wire may not be connected.
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Your suggestion to what is for throttle and what is for hub is correct. Came "prewired" from GM China, so I suppose its correct.
And my thumbthrottle doesnt work at all.. but the lights are working for battery indication.
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It looks like its brown, black, beige(brownish)...
Is this the throttle,
Which side of the plug is going to the throttle and which side goes to the hub?
The top plug it looks to be red black brown. Looks odd to me.
And the bottom plug looks to be red black green looks like the throttle side.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2202.0;attach=2356;image)
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Hello!
Connecting the red and white cables from the motor(I needed to take apart the plug from the motor to do this test) gives me full speed on the wheel. It may seem that your thumb throttle only give you full throttle? I had to get a new one from GM to fix my three beeps, but still no reaction on the motor when turning on the power and twisting the throttle. So any tips would be highly appreciated!!
Svein
My thumbtrottle doesnt do anything... :-\
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Is this the throttle,
Which side of the plug is going to the throttle and which side goes to the hub?
The top plug it looks to be red black brown. Looks odd to me.
And the bottom plug looks to be red black green looks like the throttle side.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2202.0;attach=2356;image)
Leslie, that's the Pedelec connector on the Magic Pie. The top socket is the harness side and the lower plug will go to the pedelec sensor on the bottom bracket.
Despite the power being delivered, I still suspect that the motor is only running at half speed which is normal for throttle failure mode (indicated by the three beeps).
As the battery indicator LEDs are lighting up OK, it would appear that the black throttle ground connection is fine.
Karen, it would be really helpful to know the voltage readings between the black and red wires on the throttle lead (which should be ~4.8V) and the black and white wires on the same lead (this reading should vary from ~0.8V with the thumb throttle released up to ~3.7V at full throttle).
This diagram should help you to identify the wires, even though your wiring does not have the coloured connectors fitted:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2103.0;attach=1975;image)
Click image to view full size.
Alan
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Any different readings to different batteries? And Ill try to get an electrician to help me get the readings. Easier said than done, living in the middle of nowhere. Tiny place. Got one respons, to help me after the weekend...
And jikes! Iff that half speed, :o I might need a bikers helmet and suit...
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Any different readings to different batteries?
Throttle voltages should be the same regardless of the battery voltage.
Alan
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Since Im still not sure how to get that done, I might still ask weard questions. Got a better picture tho... of the wires. one red and one blue in one "big" wire( lacking some languageskills here), and yellow, green, white, brown, red and black in the "really big" wire. Witch red wire? The one in the blue/red - mix or in the "rainbowmix"? Try them all and then post again? Its 4 in the morning here now, so I have to call it a night.
And I hope everybody remembers to thank all of you people for helping. I really love you guys! Dusins of roses to all of you!
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Ahh I see.
It is like the lm317t and the device it powers is best having ground from supply to lm317t then gound from lm317t to your device. Any shortcuts to the device from ground, if the lm317t loses the ground wire this will give unregulated volts to the device.
The same goes for this order. Any ground failure connection on the previous devices will result in full speed.
I would of thought that the throttle was the first order of choice but then again I don't fully understand the cruise controll function yet.
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Despite the power being delivered, I still suspect that the motor is only running at half speed which is normal for throttle failure mode (indicated by the three beeps).
The battery indicator LEDs are lighting up OK, it would appear that the black throttle ground connection is fine.
Alan
But what if the actual black wire on the throttle cable was lose? The black wire that comes from the throttle itself?
But would this give beeps when the battery is switched on? You said this would cause the safety function to cut in to stop it from full speed.
I asked this before. Does the safety function give 3 beeps too.
Otherwise!
This sounds like a standard run of the mill throttle failure.
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But what if the actual black wire on the throttle cable was lose? The black wire that comes from the throttle itself?
But would this give beeps when the battery is switched on? You said this would cause the safety function to cut in to stop it from full speed.
I asked this before. Does the safety function give 3 beeps too.
With the black throttle wire disconnected, there are no beeps when power is turned on and the motor does nots spin, even though the throttle signal voltage is ~4.25V.
If the black wire is reconnected, and then disconnected again, the motor will then run at full speed continually, but still no beeps.
In this condition, applying the brakes will only stop the power going to the motor if the black wires on the brakes switches are still grounded. If there is a break is in the main black wire from the controller it will not stop the power!
The three beeps will only occur if the signal voltage to the controller falls below ~0.6V.
If this is controlled by software, it should be possible to modify the programming slightly to include an over voltage check as well to cover failure of the ground connection:
If Signal voltage <0.6V or Signal voltage >4.0V then activate throttle failure mode
On my bike (with everything connected and working correctly) when you switch on power without the throttle being released (signal voltage greater than 1.25V) there are no beeps, but the safety function is activated. As soon as you release the throttle completely, it automatically resets itself and the throttle works normally again.
Hope this makes things a bit clearer.
Alan
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Hope this makes things a bit clearer.
Alan
Thank you for your reply. There is much for me to learn about the new controllers.
With the black throttle wire disconnected, there are no beeps when power is turned on and the motor does nots spin, even though the throttle signal voltage is ~4.25V.
If Signal voltage 0.6V or Signal voltage >4.0V then activate throttle failure mode
If the black wire is reconnected, and then disconnected again, the motor will then run at full speed continually, but still no beeps.
These points seem to contradict, doesnt 4.25V. constitute this very throttle failure mode! As you put these in the same system operation just confuses me a little.
Rather than post me the same answer I will just take some initiative and use some common sense and accept it that 4.25v doesnt give beeps and >4.0V is throttle failure mode and it is saftey feature and both safety feature and throttle failure mode are one and the same thing.
??? ??? ??? ???
If the black wire is reconnected, and then disconnected again, the motor will then run at full speed continually, but still no beeps.
So even >4.0V doesnt give beeps and this quote below really has no meaning now.
If Signal voltage 0.6V or Signal voltage >4.0V then activate throttle failure mode
This clear things up alot. :'(
I guess I will find out all this soon enough when I purchase the pie soon.
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Rather than post me the same answer I will just take some initiative and use some common sense and accept it that 4.25v doesnt give beeps and >4.0V is throttle failure mode and it is saftey feature and both safety feature and throttle failure mode are one and the same thing.
>4.0V is not throttle failure mode, but it should be.
The power on safety feature and throttle failure mode are not one and the same thing.
If this is controlled by software, it should be possible to modify the programming slightly to include an over voltage check as well to cover failure of the ground connection:
If Signal voltage <0.6V or Signal voltage >4.0V then activate throttle failure mode
The above quote was just an example of programming code that could be used to check for throttle failure producing an over voltage, this is not what happens at the moment!
Alan
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Clear as a brass bell.
Agreed on the should be.
I gets my Pie in july. there shouldnt be much I wont know by then.
Thanks again.
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Electrician didnt have time to come today, but will post as soon as I get readings on voltage. Hang in there, please :P.
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Well... No signal to the throttle... As suspected. BUT! There is connection from the 8-pinconnector to the throttle....
So... is it the internal controller or what? Now I really don't know what to do :'(.
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Karen, do you know if there is 5V present at pin 6 of the 8 pin connector socket shown on the diagram?
You should be able to carry out a simple test to see if the voltage is present at the socket by connecting a small piece of wire (reshaped paper clips work well for this) between pins no 4 and 6 on the motor socket which should make the motor run at full speed:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2040.0;attach=1859;image)
Make sure the wheel is raised off the ground and that the power is turned on before you insert the wire.
If the motor spins, this would indicate that the speed controller and the motor wiring harness are connected correctly giving the required 5V at pin 6.
If the motor does not spin when 4 and 6 are linked, it could be due to a controller fault or a break (or short) somewhere along the thin red wire which runs between the controller and the socket.
Let us know whether it runs or not when you have tested it.
Alan
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Didnt run :'(
And stop me before I break some rules about warranty:(
To be continued....
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I think we have done all we can here. Its up to TOM now.
Good work Bikemad. Sometimes you cant fix a bad connection, not from not trying though.
Yes Karen, thank you for giving your best here, but you have learned a lot of things you may need to know in the future.
Unless anyone has any more good ideas to help.
Try a new cable.
Or.
Do you have an Authorised GM dealer who sold you the bike?
Request warranty, or repair, or replacment Pie.
If not.
Email tom and be very basic with your email and explain what is happening.
He will ask you to do some tests similar to the ones you just did.
zhourenli@goldenmotor.com
Be patient.
Good luck,
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Thank you guys! I got some messages from Bikemad to do the same. Doing the same testing again and sending the results to Tom. Ill keep you updated on how it works out.
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Mail from Tom:
"The problem comes from the internal controller,because of make a mistake with the positive and cathode of the battery.
You should replace the internal controller."
Now I just have to request a new controller? And any photos on how I do this? :'(
Karen
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Solved... Sort of!
Im not an electrician, but sometimes being stubborn helps. Getting anoyed helps too... I needed a new controller, but thats in China and Im just below the artic circle...
Missing 5v from throttle to pie - solution suggestion -new controller....
BUT - stubborn - want fix NOW...
Maybe...
Thinking...
Hmmm....
Connection from 8-pin to throttle ok on voltmeter(?)..
Thinking more..., what iff...
so no 5v from pie to 8-pin...
Might be break in wire... opening the big black wire... cutting thin red wire.... long, big, thick wire from back on bicycle to red wire on steering... AND
VOILA!!!
I can now ride in an orderly fashion, and throttle works...
Pedelec don't tho...
And the wireing looks like a mess.... but it works... and I came very close to landing in the "ditch"?
So - now I need to wire it up so it looks like a bike:D
Thank you and all my love to you all! :P
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Never Give Up; Never Surrender! ;D
But...
You did What?! ???
Connected full battery voltage to the wire that should have 5V?
(I'm not familiar with the Magic Pie, so excuse my ignorance... ;) )
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I split the big black wire that comes out of the pie, inside - small wires. Two red ones... cut the small red one(5V - to throttle)... then made a new one. The big red one is 53,someV....
Out from the pie is a big black wire that comes out. This splits in two further up. One is the power and the other is all the small wires. new wire from before cut, ( before 8-pin connector) and to the throttle... works nice:d Looks like a mess tho... will get better....
In norwegian: Ut fra motoren kommer en tykk ledning. Inni denne går alle ledninger til alt mulig... denne splittes først I to tykke sorte ledninger. I den ene er to tykke ledninger som er strøm. Den andre deles opp I en kontakt med 8 pinner. Det var brudd I den røde ledningen fra controlleren inni motoren mellom motor og før den ble splittet opp. Åpnet, fant feil og la ny ledning utenom 8-pinskontakten og rett opp I koblingen under styret der alle ledningen går. Testet og det virker... så nå får jeg de 0,6-4,8 voltene på gassen. Hvor I Norge?
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Ok, so you left the thick red one alone then? :) Just made a new 'red thin wire' from down in the cable harness and connected it to the throttle, bypassing the 8pin connector?
In other words; the red thin wire was probably broken before the 8-pin connector...
Well done! :)
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Yes! And I didnt need to change the controller :P. That wouldnt made the problem go away:d
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So all you need now, are some cable-ties (kabel-strips på Norsk... ;) ), and make sure your new connections are properly connected and well insulated. ;)
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Yes... I have them, but goint to use the yellow wire that isnt in use from the harness... checked connectivity. Will work. Now I have a big white(thick) wire from the back to the front:d only to test, but it worked:d
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Ah, that would tidy it up nicely I think. :)
Seems to me that GM should improve their Quality Control at the factory level, and maybe not cut corners when it comes to wiring... There have been some posts here regarding those wirings...
I wish you some nice weather there up north, so you can enjoy your e-bike... ;)
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I'm planning to design some silpe circuitos to check these componentes before shipping to clients. For norte I will only have a Bike like setup to test the motors, and a spare motor to test the controllers.
For the cables just some ledes continuity tests - like plug the cable and be sure that all leds turn on. :)
I'm not sure if I will do for all sold systems or justiça a fred for control...
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If the motor does not spin when 4 and 6 are linked, it could be due to a controller fault or a break (or short) somewhere along the thin red wire which runs between the controller and the socket.
Well done Karen,
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/6_small.GIF)good to hear you've manage to locate which of the suspected faults it actually was, and it's even better that you've been able to get it to work properly.
I hope it's not going to be too much hassle tidying up the wiring, and it would be nice to see some pictures of the finished result.
I still suspect that the motor is only running at half speed
And jikes! Iff that half speed, :o I might need a bikers helmet and suit...
I hope you've ordered that helmet and suit now. (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/3_small.GIF)
Alan
P.S. The next time I need help finding a wiring fault, guess who I'm going to turn to? :D
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Thanks again, Bikemad. Didnt get that helmet, but got one that turn heads... People up here think Im nuts going around in this one:D
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Before and afterpictures of the wires, quite happy. Also made them about 10cm longer so it is possible to make the bike higher. Was nothing to go on there. Also used the yellow wire instead of the red one since it was not in use. I used a cat5-cable, thats a standard computer network cable.