GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: GM Brazil on May 14, 2010, 10:13:14 PM
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Now... my turn :)
My battery can not handle more than 8km now, suddently. And the recharger does not detects the battery when the bms cuts - I need to plug the recharger annd spin the motor mannualy, use the regen brake then the back voltage turns on the controller and BMS back and the recharge cycle starts.
Also the battery lost a lot of energy while stand still.
I sent this e-mail to tom:
Hello Tom,
Tom, I'm having problems with my battery.
About the product:
Magic Pie rear kit with LFP48V12S battery
Bought as a sample product to test for this dealer contract
Received 18/01/2010
Use:
At the city, some bad asphalt, rain
650km of use
4 months of use
10km/day most rides
Symptoms
The bikes no longer achieves 40hm/h. The maximum speed is 35km/h
The battery lost a lot of charge while resting
The range was 25km, then 20km, and now only 7km on controlled tests (I do them every 15 days)
When the BMS shuts the battery down the recharger is not able to detect that the battery is connected - I needed to spin the wheel and use the regenerative brakes to have enough voltage to the recharger be able to detects that the battery is connected and starts the charging process.
Photos of the recharger annexed.
Please, answer me with any tests needed to confirm that this is a quality problem of the battery.
Thank you!
Bruno F. Porto
Golden Motor Brazil
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Hello Bruno F.Porto
Remove the battery end cover containing the charger socket. You will find a printed circuit board (PCB).
It is a battery management system (BMS) which equalizes the charge in each of the cells.
The wire B1 is the one attached to the battery anode. Connecting his professional quality voltmeter to the battery anode and to the other twelve wires in succession.
There is one 13-Pin connector on this PCB. (B13 B12 B11 B10 B9 B8 B7 B6 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1)
Measure the voltage between
the green wire and other nine wires as below:
B1 green wire to: Specification
B2 yellow wire(the second wire) 3.6V ~ 4.15V
B3 yellow wire(the third wire) 7.2V ~ 8.30V
B4 yellow wire(the fourth wire) 10.8V ~ 12.45V
B5 yellow wire(the fifth wire) 14.4V ~ 16.60V
B6 yellow wire(the sixth wire) 18.0V ~ 20.75V
B7 yellow wire(the seventh wire) 21.6V ~ 24.90V
B8 yellow wire(the eighth wire) 25.2V ~ 29.05V
B9 yellow wire(the ninth wire) 28.8V ~ 33.20V
B10 yellow wire (the tenth wire) 32.4V ~ 37.35V
B11 yellow wire(the eleven wire) 36.0V ~ 41.5V
B12 yellow wire(the twelve wire) 39.6V ~ 45.65V
B13 black wire(the thirteen wire) 43.2V ~ 49.8V
If the voltages are normal,
then the cells are okay.
Incidentally, 43.2~49.8V + 3.6V~4.15V = 46.8V~53.95V
Then, measure voltage of the battery
without BMS (B- and battery anode) 46.8V~53.95V
with BMS (D- and battery anode) 46.8V~53.95V
If these two voltages are the same, then the battery pack is okay.
Note:If the voltage of any cell is more than 4.15V.I think the cell is overcharger.It can stop BMS and battery work.So you should find out which cell is overcharged.
Best Regards
Tom
I tested the battery and had these results:
B1 green wire to:
B2 yellow wire(the second wire) 4.1V Cell=4.1V
B3 yellow wire(the third wire) 8.2V Cell=4.1V
B4 yellow wire(the fourth wire) 12.3V Cell=4.2V
B5 yellow wire(the fifth wire) 16.5V Cell=3.9V
B6 yellow wire(the sixth wire) 20.4V Cell=4.3V <-Bad?
B7 yellow wire(the seventh wire) 24.7V Cell=4.2V
B8 yellow wire(the eighth wire) 28.9V Cell=4.1V
B9 yellow wire(the ninth wire) 33V Cell=4.1V
B10 yellow wire (the tenth wire) 37.1V Cell=4,2V
B11 yellow wire(the eleven wire) 41.3V Cell=4.0V
B12 yellow wire(the twelve wire) 45.3V Cell=4.1V
B13 black wire(the thirteen wire) 49.4V Cell=4.0V
without BMS (B- and battery anode)
53.4V
with BMS (D- and battery anode)
53.4V
So, the battery seems ok, the problem could be the charger? Why does it still not capable of doing more than 7km instead of 25km when it was new?
ps.: The epoxy at the sides of the PCB I put to hold the pack in place as it was loose inside the casing.
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I think these cells should be very close to each other volt-wise; a difference of 0.40V are too much. I think 2 decimals should be used when measuring.
Are these voltages after a charge, or when the battery/bms cut?
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I think these cells should be very close to each other volt-wise; a difference of 0.40V are too much. I think 2 decimals should be used when measuring.
Are these voltages after a charge, or when the battery/bms cut?
After a charge, I'll try to load the battery with some controllable resistance, as I'm far from my bike now, to test the voltages after the cut.
I did measure the voltages between B1/B2, B2/B3, B3/B4, etc to have more precision (two digits) and all the cells looks ok.. I'll measure like this again tomorrow and post the results here.
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Now... my turn :)
My battery can not handle more than 8km now, suddently. And the recharger does not detects the battery when the bms cuts - I need to plug the recharger annd spin the motor mannualy, use the regen brake then the back voltage turns on the controller and BMS back and the recharge cycle starts.
Bruno F. Porto
Golden Motor Brazil
[/quote]
Wow how did you figure all that out. It amazes me the things people fall upon when trying to get something to work.
That test seems to confuse people but I could be wrong. But these results from ground to pins make me dizzy to work out.
I would try measure the voltages between pins and post.
B13 B12.
B12 B11.
B11 B10.
B10 B9.
B9 B8.
B8 B7..
B7 B6
B6 B5,
B5 B4.
B4 B3.
B3 B2.
B2 B1..
And post the results.
This way it is easy to spot a bad cell block. And do use the 20v selection not the 200v selection on the meter for individual cell measurements as posted by Cornelius.
Have you checked the 220v 110v selector switch on the charger. Someone had this problem before.
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Wow how did you figure all that out. It amazes me the things people fall upon when trying to get something to work.
This bike is my prototype. I'm taking notes of every behavior so I can write a good manual :D One of them was after the BMS shuts down in one of my several "controlled" range tests I saw that during a downhill when I used the brakes the controller turned on again, activated the regenerative braking and then the BMS turned the battery on again.
Also, my charger have a relay that turns on the process when it detects any voltage from the plug - I always hear it. And when testing the voltage of the charger there always zero - it only starts with the battery connected.
I tested the charger plug from the battery with my multimeter and when the BMS kicks off, there was no voltage. I figured out that for some reason the BMS cuts out the charger plug from the circuit too, so, to turn it on again I would need to raise the battery voltage so the BMS let it works and this leads to "simulate a downhill" with my tire in the air :D
Testing with the 20V settting at the multimeter to have better precision:
B+/B12=4,06 (there is only 12 cables and no B13 at the board, check the attached pic)
B12/B11=4,07
B11/B10=4,06
B10/B9=4,07
B9/B8=4,08
B8/B7=4,07
B7/B6=4,06
B6/B5=4,08
B5/B4=4,08
B4/B3=4,05
B3/B2=4,07
B2/B1=4,08
Pretty ok to me....
Have you checked the 220v 110v selector switch on the charger. Someone had this problem before.
I checked this after that post :D
I think I'll need to do some load test.... The problem is that my watt meter is 770km away from here now, with the bike.
Thank you very much for the help!! :D
I'll try to buy some watt meter here, and create a simple circuit to control correctly the amperage drain and test the battery with some lamps. Any other, simpler, idea that I could use to test the battery?
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I am glad the solution to my issue in now standard troubleshooting ;D
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Wow how did you figure all that out. It amazes me the things people fall upon when trying to get something to work.
This bike is my prototype. I'm taking notes of every behavior so I can write a good manual :D One of them was after the BMS shuts down in one of my several "controlled" range tests I saw that during a downhill when I used the brakes the controller turned on again, activated the regenerative braking and then the BMS turned the battery on again.
Also, my charger have a relay that turns on the process when it detects any voltage from the plug - I always hear it. And when testing the voltage of the charger there always zero - it only starts with the battery connected.
I tested the charger plug from the battery with my multimeter and when the BMS kicks off, there was no voltage. I figured out that for some reason the BMS cuts out the charger plug from the circuit too, so, to turn it on again I would need to raise the battery voltage so the BMS let it works and this leads to "simulate a downhill" with my tire in the air :D
Testing with the 20V settting at the multimeter to have better precision:
B+/B12=4,06 (there is only 12 cables and no B13 at the board, check the attached pic)
B12/B11=4,07
B11/B10=4,06
B10/B9=4,07
B9/B8=4,08
B8/B7=4,07
B7/B6=4,06
B6/B5=4,08
B5/B4=4,08
B4/B3=4,05
B3/B2=4,07
B2/B1=4,08
Pretty ok to me....
Have you checked the 220v 110v selector switch on the charger. Someone had this problem before.
I checked this after that post :D
I think I'll need to do some load test.... The problem is that my watt meter is 770km away from here now, with the bike.
Thank you very much for the help!! :D
I'll try to buy some watt meter here, and create a simple circuit to control correctly the amperage drain and test the battery with some lamps. Any other, simpler, idea that I could use to test the battery?
You can see any problesm if you put a load on the pack like 4X12v 50 watt halogen bulbs in series. Wait for a 5 minutes to strip any surface charge then test the voltages of each block to see if one cell block is suffering.
A bad conection to one or more Pcell in a block will show a faster voltage drop between the pins.
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I'll need to do the load test.
O tested today again with the bike and the battery stills dropping the voltage a lot at the first high load uphill - It means, the red empty light is the only one on.
317537 - Could I use normal 50W incandescent 120v lamps? Or some type of heat element? I tried to find some schemes using google but not enough information to do the correct set up.
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Ok, I did the load test with my Battery!
It looks like thath the BMS is shutting off to early, look at these results:
19:50 Start 150W-3A Battery load test, just after charge without load: 54v, with load 53v
20:10 1,01Ah and 50,28Vm
20:30 2,05Ah and 49,20Vm
20:45 2,78Ah and 48,39Vm
21:00 3,50Ah and 47,62Vm
21:15 4,22Ah and 46,70Vm
21:30 4,86Ah and 45,49Vm
21:45 Stopped before I got the numbers
Estimated final numbers: 5,64Ah and 44,82Vm
So, it confirms that I have almost half of the capacity, just like my ride tests showed.
As the individual cels looks ok, this leads to the BMS system? Hot to test it to confirm?
Thank you.
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I think I have the same, I used to be able to do my daily commute but now it's shutting down ater only 5 to 10 km and that's not enough, startoff voltage is 54 v and after the cut off no load it's like 49v is this okay, no I don't think so
please help
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Sounds like you are having a similar problem to mine. Your system shouldn't cut power until the voltage is at 36-40V for a 48V setup.
Similarly for my own setup, my system (3x12V = 36V system) shuts down at 35V, but shouldn't shut down unless it's at only 27-30V...
I gotta tell you, I would LOVE to be able to recreate that programming interface so the side effects of all the settings are clearly defined for us users... Yao - any chance I can get the API or a copy of the source code for the program? I seriously swear I wont' give any copies out unless I have your permission first!!
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Does you battery have a BMS (circuit board that manages the battery pack)? Because it is not my controller that is cutting, is the BMS from the battery. If you do not have a BMS your controller is programmed to a 48v system cut-off... Maybe there is some way to twick that....
In my case still could be a problem of one/some cells our the BMS circuit board. I could do a very controlled load test, by passing the BMS to check if the cells still holding the full capacity... then I cut the load at the 35v, this could damage my battery?
How to isolate the source of the problem? That is my actual question.
The cell voltage measurements shows that they look ok - but the bike still showing a very high voltage drop under 18A load.
The load test showed that the BMS is cutting earlier, but I did not see the actual cut-off voltage, just estimates.
Or the BMS is cutting to early or there is some damaged cell that keeps the voltage with no load but lost a lot under load, leading to the premature cut-off...
This is messing with my head ;)
I start a new job tomorrow, at 9,5 km from home. Pedalling a lot I can manage to get there..... But I will need to bring the charger....
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In fact, I need to create a "Cake recipe" for testing batteries, I will need it for my customers very soon...
What do you think about this: http://www.optimengineering.com/CBA.htm
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I tested mine with a simple 12V inverter and then simply plugged in a lamp. If one battery can output 160 watts, without dropping the voltage below 10.5V, I gave it a pass. It's a pretty rudimentary test, but it certainly proved that my batteries (except one) were able to output enough power.
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I tested mine with a simple 12V inverter and then simply plugged in a lamp. If one battery can output 160 watts, without dropping the voltage below 10.5V, I gave it a pass. It's a pretty rudimentary test, but it certainly proved that my batteries (except one) were able to output enough power.
Giving one of my 12ah SLA 15v for a while today and the other day seems to be OK. I leave it on a solar panel to day and regulated it at 15v for as long as I thought it could be missing capacity. About 10-20 minutes each time.
I think if you get any sulfination you can sacrifice cycle life for some return capacity but don't count on getting away with it too much, Do some short runs and overcharge it for a little bit each time and see if things improve for that battery..
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You can see any problesm if you put a load on the pack like 4X12v 50 watt halogen bulbs in series. Wait for a 5 minutes to strip any surface charge then test the voltages of each block to see if one cell block is suffering.
A bad conection to one or more Pcell in a block will show a faster voltage drop between the pins.
I'll try this!
Do I measure with or without load?
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You can see any problesm if you put a load on the pack like 4X12v 50 watt halogen bulbs in series. Wait for a 5 minutes to strip any surface charge then test the voltages of each block to see if one cell block is suffering.
A bad conection to one or more Pcell in a block will show a faster voltage drop between the pins.
I'll try this!
Do I measure with or without load?
Ohh I came from hardcores thread.
Yes you test while under load as this will spot light out any bad cells blocks.
When a single celll goes out in a block the resistance increases because 1: The connection between the plates is damaged, and because there is more resistance ion one cell it increases the resistance over the whole parallel block. Its like having 2 series resistors, three resistors in parallel, replacing one with a larger value in a series block. Put an input and a load on it then measure the v drop. The parallel block you put the larger resistor in will have the larger drop.
But with batteries its the opposite. The voltage actually drops over the terminals. When voltages vary too much between two parallel cells the difference actually makes a potential difference so one battery begins to discharge into another causing the voltage over that parallel block to drop faster and the peukerts effect effect should be larger on the suspicious block. SO if you can brew up some decent load to draw good amps your test can be over much faster.
Just keep the lights on and keep testing the cell blocks until the runt show its ugly head.
Any thing with 2.5 ohm resistance and give up 1000 watts will do very close to 20 amps. That's a real load test.
With a decent load you might just be able to pick up some amps between a damaged cell and a normal ones in a parallel block positive terminals. Look for some current flow when one cell discharges into another. Maybe a load meter will provide enough parallel resistance to shunt some through to a damaged cell giving you a result from any normal current shifts between parallel cells.
You can get some peltiers 8 amp cheap on line. They are good for 15v each so you could go for 4 in series for a 48v pack and cool your beer while you wait to find the bum cell. I do try to encourage people to play with peltiers. lol
They invented peltiers as heat pumps for cooling, but it turns out they make very good heaters. And infra red energy amplifiers. They can take the infra red sun off a roof and pump it it your home with more efficiency than they can cool things.. Well that how my theory goes.
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The Nicrome wire I got failed, Too long, the rain got on it, a kink blew and the parallel resistance did not turn out as good along the strands as intended. Some twists in the wire overheated.
What didnt go wrong with the home made resistor.
SO I am going to turn to my LM338 and some halogen bulbs. Its all a bit more difficult than I first thought, I still have three LM338 now I can maybe squeeze 6 amps out of each. I have two ready for 5 amps and some of the nichrome wire left..
See what I can make up.
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(http://www.alltronics.com/mas_assets/full/23P011.JPG)
http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/23P011/44/-25-Ohms%2C-125-Watt-Resistor
This maybe an expense alternative, But the Dealers may want to afford some quality resistors. You would need ten of these 250 watt resistors in parallel 10 of these in parallel will do 75v at 33 amps max and 50v @ 20amps nicely. at $8.50 each it isnt the cheapest.
If we going to get the us normal GM users to do load tests we will need something cheaper than these resistors and easier than a circuit of LM338s with bulbs.
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I'm using just paralel bulbs and is ok for low load tests.
But to detect the cell I'll really need at least an 0.5C test. I already discarted the option of the controller been the responsable for the cut-off with the low load test. The battery shows 50% of its capacity and the BMS cuts at 47v.
So, should be some cell group that is going low voltage before the others and then the BMS cuts down. there is such a thing? Cut down by the signal of one group or the BMS just do this with the whole pack voltage?
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I'm using just paralel bulbs and is ok for low load tests.
But to detect the cell I'll really need at least an 0.5C test. I already discarted the option of the controller been the responsable for the cut-off with the low load test. The battery shows 50% of its capacity and the BMS cuts at 47v.
So, should be some cell group that is going low voltage before the others and then the BMS cuts down. there is such a thing? Cut down by the signal of one group or the BMS just do this with the whole pack voltage?
If the BMS is cutting at 47v then the last questions remain. Does it LVC on a heavy take offs, Whats its maximum current draw on the take offs.
In most situations you should see a difference. You may need to be quick to check it when LVC happens, But why it could be happening maybe a different reason.
If the connections between the cells are not solid this can cause cells to discharge faster. If there is an arcing, this particularly can cause heat and damage cell into its core, and you can pick a bad connection to a cell like this. LVC may be protecting that cell so it might be still good. Give the bike a good run and If you can probe the cells with a temperature gauge straight into LVC . You might turn with up some interesting results.
When there is bad LVC at 47v if its your cells there will be some resistance over the damaged cell and it will cause heat inside, be fast to test the temperature.
Also make sure that the BMS wires are connected properly. It could be a false positive if one or more the B is intermittent or connection fails in the plug. A simple cell test shows its connected. And reseating the BMS B connections male plug into its female counter part may solve any intermittency issues.
A touch of Inox electronics spray in the plugs is not such a bad idea if you have salting or corrosion on the pins. It can protect any charge on the pins from the salt air in any connections.
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Oh and one good thing the lower current load tests does provide. Is that it inst a heavy load that's causing the problem. The high voltage 47v LVC does show there is still plenty of capacity in the other cells in your pack, so you need to test the cell voltages just before LVC, while you're testing the capacity wait around till just before LVC and give the cell voltages a test,
From
B- to B1
B1 to B2
and so on,
And write them down while you are doing the load test. Be careful mot to short the pins and don't take too long, Any cell block that are much lower just before LVC is the culprit cell block.
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Thank you!!
I'll try this weekend, but with the low current system, no free time to go after the 1kW resistor or nicrome wires now; ;)
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Hey guys
just wanted to check if you had any luck with your 48v12ah battery pack. mines got the same problem now. Below is my email to GM.
'Ive had my E-Bike up and running for around 6 weeks now and it’s running well, until the last few times ive riden it.
The first 4 weeks I could ride to and from work on one charge, 9km to work, 9km return.
Last week, I could only ride to work and halfway back, and the battery cuts out.
A few days ago, I could only ride to work 9km before needing a recharge.
Nothing has changed, I ride the same way each time, with hard tyres.
I noticed on the site that a 48v12ah battery should do 50km on a full 48v charge, but im not getting anywhere close to this.
I always use regen breaking where possible, and also peddle aswell.
Is there a way to check if any lithium cells are faulty?'
I did check all my cells and they looked ok. there were 2 cells which went up and down in voltage for no apparant reason, very strange.
Thanks for any help.
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I changed the battery of my voltimeter, compared its readings with true certified lab oscilloscopes. I'll let the batteries connected with the low power load now and when the BMS shuts down I'll read the voltages of the cells - even with the BMS off is possible to check the cells voltage.
I also checked the lateral soldering of cells (the middle is very "glued" I prefer to not try to open now). The construction is made of very, very good quality parts - only the screws look cheap. Better tools and quality control of screws can solve those ugly and damaged ones.
Then I'll post results. And no answers from TOM since the last e-mail with the first test results.
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And no answers from TOM since the last e-mail with the first test results.
Bruno, your post with the results (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2166.msg11566#msg11566) was dated 3rd June, are you saying that Tom has ignored your problem for over two months?
Have you sent him any other emails in between?
Alan
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Yep, and yep. There are more than two months since the results, not considering the first month for the first e-mail and this is my one battery problem. I'm concerned when it became a bigger number of clients.
I will have the equipment to test the battery for my clients, and check what is ok with the warranty and what is not - but if I need to wait like this to every problem my clients face I will have serious problems.
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I am fresh out of excuses as to why TOM doesn't even answer emails to an authorized rep. >:(
Maybe they should put us tech officers on the payroll, lol. I don't care about making money, I care about this community.
People like myself has put a lot into building an Ebike community here. Not to mention what Alan and the GM authoized dealers input as well.
Alan is the main reason these forums are so damned good. We have lost the spam, along with other material that is not acceptable since. And the wealth of information from all our member has been abundant. Overall attention to this site and GM sales are on the rise.
I see if I can get some info from our boss here, I cant promise any reply from GM or any follow up after this post but I will try.
If Bruno cant get a reply what chance have I got?
I will try, but don't expect anything more than what we are seeing.
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Ok I got my reply from GM.
Without copy pasting the PM I will condense it to this post below.
Ahh damn it, I don't like posting private messages, but this is not so bad thing to do in light of the good news it caries..
The information I think that matters to contents in this thread, spell checked and I quote Golden Motor. Yuan
hey Les,
Tom is extremely busy with the shipping since there have been quite big orders this summer. . Philip is ultra mega busy with the shareholders and with the new 12000m sq factory where we will build everything ourselves, so that the quality will change drastically as we have already employed 2 QC officers. it would last about 3 months, till December where the factory will be fully functional, making near-perfect Magic Pies and controllers, hence reducing technical problems, hence giving tom some air to breathe,
if you would care to let me explain. we sell about 9000 kits per year, that gives us a pure profit margin of 12%. hence we won't have enough money to find people like tom or quality control officers to operate this business. we would have to find shareholders (philip), spread awareness (me), get huge 5000W motor orders (tom and the rest of the sales team), get more dealers (me and the rest of the sales team)...
If Philip succeeds then there would be no more problems. pray for philip that he gets the investing companies to invest
IF in any circumstance, we do succeed. then you would be looking at a huge scale company. I mean the government has gotten their ass soaked into our pots and they want a piece of GM as long as we prove ourselves worth of huge government financing. we would be granted 4years of tax exemption, 90 000 sq m of operational ready factories, 2500 employees and a huge ass cheque to give us a boost in everything.
Incentive to invest is likely to prevail. Government supported e-vehicle company is on the radar in this day and age. The stakes are high and the rewards are assertive and attainable. The rewards will be passed down to the end user and GM yet again will improve. I am confident GM will prevail.
If you look around GM are facing the same problems at present all similar companies are facing. IMO there is not a single company that can successfully manufacture all products we need 100% to the customer satisfaction. Buy your hub here, you battery there, and controller somewhere else and be lucky you have the balls to make it all compatible. This to some is not a reality as they do not have the time nor skills to make other brand name products work with each other.
GM have plans to change this trend
IMO we are seeing GM at another point in their life, at no time it seems GM is going to give up, be sure GM will soldier on.
My thoughts I have put to GM to ease our situational during this transition period are as follows.
I have some put some ideas towards GM to help improve the GM packs reliability out of the box. Like an BMS access point plug to individually balance and charge cells, and make it easy to test them. GM to introduce a low amp single cell charger to connect to the BMS connection for sale to customers and made available for the dealers wishing to ensure the cell balancing is correct before put to consumer use..
Some new strategy of the Dealers may needed to be adopted. Like individual charging cells and some small cycles be done to the pack before sending.
I we can get the individual cell block access connection to the cell blocks installed this will make it easier for everyone to balance cells individually, the port may be accessed inside the pack,
I cant make promises I will get what I ask, but its not much to ask for IMO and I would install this connection myself to the GM pack.
As the shelf life gets on with the GM packs, balancing may not be optimum when they arrive to the customer. The access port will allow GM authorized dealers to balance cells properly before they send them making reasonable shelf life on the pack have no impact to the packs long term performances.
I cant say whether my idea will be implemented but I will say there is no reason why the GM packs cant have a plug installed easily by its user until we can get some changes..
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This can be easy installed onto the BMS module.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2166.0;attach=3000;image)
The idea allows one to bypass the BMS with a simple 14 pin adapter connection to the BMS sensor wire connector that is soldered onboard the BMS PCB to B+ and B-
You just unplug the BMS sensor 12 pin connector and plug into the new on board adapter connector that pin 1 and 14 is soldered to B+ and B-.
The access cable is which can be plugged in at anytime to have easy safe access to cell blocks.
It looks complicated but it is easy and just needs two wires to be soldered to install the adapter. The access cable is a 14 pin connector with 7 12 two pin connectors that one can plug an individual cell block charger onto any one or more connectors.
All connectors can only be inserted in one polarity orientation to avoid use error.
Requires GM to make the adapter and install the adapter to the BMS, (two wires) and to make available the access cable online.
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Well, the only thing we need is to have the authorization to open the product without loosing the warranty - this should be automatic for dealers. At least I'll do papers on the battery test to certify the analysis for clients.
The authorization from tom to open the products should be only necessary to direct clients - so he will have less load and better response time!
With this thread I'l writing the "manual of GM batteries malfunction analysis" or "Standard procedures to determine warranty issues" Is very simple by now and look that it can fit a small notepaper ;)
A- Before all, check for impact scars
1- Check the charger feed voltage settings and output
2- Check if there is current from the charger to the battery during charge and charge times from an BMS cutted off battery
3- Test the battery capacity in Ah using the standard 0.5C load
4- Check the battery voltage on full and empty states
5- Ope the battery and check for cold welds, test continuity of cables
6- Test the cells blocks voltages in full and empty states
7- Check the cells block voltages during load
8- Check the resistance of cell blocks and state of the soldering (is this possible?)
With this procedure sequence and expected values do compare it is possible to eliminate the cell problem. For the BMS we need the schematics for testing the circuits - like those we an buy for any electronic equipment repairs or have the BMS board for sale as replacement parts for dealers. We need a procedure to test the BMS :D
When this procedures became well documented here, just the authorization to open the battery from tom to final clients would be enough to start a community test sequence ;) less e-mails needed to Tom
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Still no answer from tom or anybody about what to do after the cell testing and how to solve and identify the origin of the problem. With some planning I"m able to use the bike to ride to work - I just need to use my force for two kilometers when going to and for come back it is ok as I charge the battery there during the day
But today I have a new problem - not the battery, but the charger. I forgot to turn off the charger before plug it in the wall. Some spark comes out from the wall plug while connecting and now the charger says that the battery is always charged and DO NOT CHARGE ANYMORE.
After that I blow the internal fuse by mistake, when I chage the set up from 220v to 110v while connected to a 220v wall plug. This problem is simple to solve, just change the internal fuse, that you can see in the picture attached. But about the charger not charging the battery I have no solution and no visually aparent burned component.... How Can I fix or test it if there is service schematics available??
Anyone have any ideas? Thank you.
By the way - the charger guts look of great quality besides the fact it failed....
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When I blew my charger it fried a diode on the board
and it opened one of the transformer legs (melted little
wires.) The diode was easy to replace, but the transformer
was not.
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need to replace cells
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Yes I would head straight for the transformer
As you noticed the failure upon plug in, I would be looking at the components closest to the power supply input
cheers
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The internal fuse is burned for sure.
All the common diodes are ok. The problem was that the charger always acts like the battery was fully charged - So I'm afraid that could be an IC problem...
The transformer seems to be ok. I'll change the board fuse today and check it while on.
Thanks for the help!!
The battery stills waiting for Tom reponse....
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Hello
Any of you guys with battery problems had a reply from GoldenMotor regarding returns or warrenty?
Everyone seems to be testing their batteries (Myself included) but no action from GM to replace the faulty cells.
Any help would be greatly apreciated.
thanks
Australia
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Yes seems a few are getting slow response.
Try tom@goldenmotors.com
You could try leaving the charger on for a few days to allow the battery to balance. Especially if you drain the battery down below 30% SOC.
I'm not sure of the success but you could use a timer to aid this balance stage. You time the charger to go on and off every 30 mins for 12 hours 6 hours on and six hours off then set the timer to stay on for the remainder of the 12 hours on the dial.
This can allow the high cells time to cool and let the BMS bleed the high cells down when chargher switches off and when the charger switches back on the lower cell get another chance to catch up.
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I can not find the on board fuse. I'll put an external type and jump the burned one. Besides the fuse the Charger still acting like the battery is full and does not charge it. I'm waiting my product stock to be released from our customs so I can buy one from my self to substitute the old one.
And a new battery.... As it is a warranty problem... I'll keep my old battery for future needs.... Like use all the good cells for other (clients) warranty problems.
I'll care about the warranty with my own resources.... For now...
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Hi Bruno.
If youre gettingsparks from the wall connection it about time you threw the charger out. The parts that could need replacing could be dangerous to work on and test. There are fets that pulse into the primary winding of that transformerthat maybe not functioning properly or the transformer winding varnish is leaking,
You take a risk palying with the primary circuits. Some things are better to make on blank etched PCB and then use and other things easy to repair.
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Thank you!
The sparks happened because of a defunct "computer filter" at the wall and by the fact that I plugged the charger to the wall while the charger was turned on by the switch - something I never did before.... I always connected the charger off and then turn the switch on, this times when I plugged I forgot to check the button and the charger instantly detected the battery as fully charged and shutting down the relay, turning the led green and with no more current for the battery... After the sparks comes from the wall plug.
I know that is the "computer filter" fault because this filter already burned other electronics with this spark problem (I should already put that thing on the trash by the way... lol)
I'll get a new on from my stock, as it is not a warranty problem for the charger.
But still the battery problem. I do not know if is a quality problem or not and how to determine it when it comes to be my clients battery problems.
For my battery I'm not worry, I'll just buy a new one from myself, but for the clients I'll need to know HOW to clearly define witch is and witch is not a warranty problem - this is is my warranty problem :D besides the no answer from Tom.