GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: perdigon on March 28, 2010, 12:02:34 AM
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Two beeps and the motor does not help
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use google translator feel my little English
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When the controller detects a motor hall-sensor failure, it will beep twice before
automatically entering into sensor-independent control mode. Twist/press the
throttle to run the motor and pedal your bike for a push start if the motor does not
operate. (This malfunction seldom happens in a state of sensor-independent
control status)
Just realised you have a mini motor:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1524.0;attach=1352;image)
Your motor may not work in sensor-less mode (without hall sensors) due to the internal freewheel device.
Alan
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but I have to do to fix it?
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the motor only has 5 months
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email Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) with details of your fault and ask for further advice.
Did your motor get very hot?
Take a look at this. (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1324.msg6771#msg6771)
Alan
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ok thx
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hi tom me that my engine is blown due to overload has only 4 months and everything was mounted, does not cover warranty, I'm sad customer
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Hello racer, you can put a 48V battery in and it will automatically give an output of 500W. However you might burn the motor easily.
I guess I need to clarify that the mini motor can only take a max load of approximately 120kg. Any heavier than that and you go uphill, the motor is gone. Which is why some users who are big boned (over 90kg) tend to send me an e-mail telling me about how the motor wasted itself after some uphill riding. However in my honest opinion, the motors should never burn if you don't stress it too much.
Although weight is a sensitive topic for everyone, I still have to recommend that if you're heavy, buy the 901 motor, or the Magic Pie when it comes out. I think I have to write a disclaimer on the mini motor because i've been replacing quite a number of motors for users (I don't blame them) who do not really understand the max stress load of the mini motor.
I'm surprised that it was overloaded using those small wheels, as the load on the motor is significantly reduced by using a smaller wheel.
eg:120kg load with a 26" wheel = 156kg load with a 20" wheel = 195kg load with a 16" wheel etc.
For each of these examples, the actual load (torque) on the motor would be exactly the same.
Was the total weight of you and your bike more than 120kg?
Alan
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not has never exceeded 120 kg
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I don't understand why your motor is not covered by the warranty, as you were running a correctly fitted 36V motor on a 36V battery, have not exceeded the maximum load limit and you were only using a 20" wheel.
Perhaps someone from GM would be kind enough to explain why this 5 month old motor is not covered by the warranty!
I am interested to know why they think your motor should not be covered by the warranty.
Alan
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anyone know how to open Mini Motor say to look inside, do not see how
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I checked the cables connected directly and now I think it works well to see what lasts ::)
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per,
so now it works again?
i've had cable problems aswell and these small cables seem to be not that good.
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I checked the cables connected directly and now I think it works well to see what lasts ::)
I'm glad the motor is not burnt out and you've been able to get it going again, hopefully it will now keep going for a long time. (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/fingerscrossed.GIF)
Alan
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If the problem is related to a hall sensor failure then it might not be related to overload. Those little hall sensors can go anytime. Even the manufacturers have a disclaimer written in the data sheets.
http://www.honeywell-sensor.com.cn/prodinfo/magnetic_position/installation/p88781_2.pdf (http://www.honeywell-sensor.com.cn/prodinfo/magnetic_position/installation/p88781_2.pdf)These products are NOT suitable for protection
against personal injury.
To AVOID personal injury or death, DO NOT
USE these products as emergency stop or safety
devices, or in any other application where human
safety is at risk.
Hall sensors in 3 phase brushless motors are not for protection against personal injury, but the warning does shed some light on why they sometimes fail.
I am contemplating buying 2 of these mini motors one for the daughters bike and a spare.
Not being able to run sensorless is a bummer. Isn’t the free wheel lock and gears outside the realm of motor former and controller.
The only thing that I can relate this problem BikeMad has suggested might exist with mini-motors is the lower current requirements and the magic controller.
My controller I am using ATM is rated at 72v@40amps and mod for 48v. This 40amp thing is more than my HBS36R will draw, I first my sensorless controller to my hub it ran like a noisy unreliable pig. Refusing to take off from 0 start almost 50% of the time. I opened the controller and cut one of the two 20 amp shunt pipes and viola, The bike never fails to take off. Simply matching the current requirement allowed through the controller with motor improved things massively. It’s a little sluggish on take offs, but I relate this to it being a native 72v controller running at 48v. FET gate charge biasing have not been modded and isn’t too hair triggered I think.
And/Or
I was told my controller would not work sensorless on "geared hubs" as it is a problem with digital controllers and MCU clock frequencies unable to provide bandwidth for the sensorless 3 phase phase drive signals from faster RPM geared motors.
Simply put, analogue controller and analogue sensorless integration would be worth a look with geared motors. Or upgrade to a bigger MCU with clock frequencies exceeding 50MhZ.
The latter has been discussed also at endless sphere forums..
Large cooling units or active cooling methods may provide opportunities for one to overclock MCU strobe freq, however this may be may be limited by memory performance. I cant say without looking into the CPU and memory bus config of the magic controller.
(edit:)
"Adding a cooler to an MCU and proving more voltage (>10mV) and faster clock gen will give better MCU performance."
..
I do plan on making my own controller in the next few years but I want it to be analogue. It said that analogue controllers need to populate more components than digital but not if you break down an MCU into its basics components.
Advantage of a digital controller is that a single MCU can replace many components and software replaces adjustability endlessly and this from a manufactures stand point is too valuable. However EV tech parameters are IMO usually refined compared to a lot of applications. A DIY controller is not really a viable and cheap project, but to an avid enthusiast like myself an awesome thing to learn how to engineer.
Their isn’t that much that cant be changed with a few trim pots etc., and if anything one could just omit sensor logic and do this analogue and get fet switching speed to do just this.
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worked an hour after the engine again and spend two beeps, I received a reply tom, going to solve my problem as soon as possible, I hope to be a happy customer
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I removed the driver and I opened, I cleaned up the inside with alcohol, seemed to have traces of sulfate or water, I'll leave it on overnight to dry thoroughly and comment tomorrow amount
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I'm doing this without any help from Tom, I think it should help those who have problems, I am a customer sad, another brand and seek more reliable and better technical support in the future
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nothing stays the same, I have not yet received any news tom
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I would like to know which is the time it takes in responding tom
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because it takes so long to respond. Tom. discomfort with this situation
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they should solve my problem. The kit is under warranty and should replace the defective part
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I think that there are 2 people who answer to e-mails.
Also stated on yao s msn he's in England.
And tom is the only one who now answers to e-mails.
Imagion gettin 200 email an hour and you're the only-one that can answer them.
Pations is the key for some good reply. As I am also waiting on my warranty request.
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200 email hours.this mean that everything they sell is defective
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haha, just my estimation:D
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And, by they way, 3 days is not a long time when you are dealing with someone
overseas. You posted a lot of times, probably emailed a lot of times too.
If you are going to be impatient like this, then you may well be better
off dealing with a company that spends all your purchase on customer
service instead of one that spends it on R&D.
Comparable equipment is available for about 4 times the price from the
name brand manufacturers.
Just my opinion, probably worth what you paid me for it.
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Today I finally opened the motor
with water inside
I have cleaned with gasoline
see if it works
I do not know how water has gotten, I think lack of retention in motor
thanks for the assistance
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NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER and -N E V E R- use gasoline to clean your motor!!!
You can melt the inslulation of the wires and other things!!!
For any electronic devices you must use Isopropyl Alcohol!!!
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Bump! :-[
Like test the polarity of a battery charger these are things we all learn.
We need to take some patients all of us here.
In reality this technology to install on a bike has quite a learning curb. But things usually will turn out fine. Its never as bad as it seems.
He feels he going to be ripped off. I do disagree with perdigon suspecting GM to be blatant for doing something wrong but I see GM though slow can be very focussed on dealing with the few issues that arise with trying to deal with the public.
GM is a company giving the EV industry a serious go while there are competitors triceteen as capable, they see no future where there is plenty.
One thing that could be understood is the reality of the ebike has become as important as a car in some peoples life.
Even though Peridgon has gone a bit font happy in the forum here he might not feel safe dealing with such things online.
To Peridgon.
So what. We get it. Welcome to the internet, Sometimes a humble bump can get replies and much support from the community here.
GM are being transparent by providing a forum please don't abuse this and be a little patient. They listen to their customers and offer what they want with a lot of extra creativity.
Remember you haven't been banned and your complaint has been lodged, we the GM community have given this good attention, yet and again I beg you to respect this.
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hello
in my engine into water
I have never taken the bike in the rain
only small pools
I lack a checkpoint
not if it brings
or assembly is oblivion
I send photo
no single bearing retainer
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I removed the engine
rust cleaned with fine sandpaper
cleaned with alcohol
I give the surface some items to avoid oxidation
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hall sensor
all burnt
I wonder if the warranty should cover replacement
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The water can get in by the humidity of the air. When the motor heats up the air inside is capable of absorb more water form the air outside, when the motor cools down this water condensates.
I do not think that sealed motors are better, exactly because of this, they should have some type of drain port, but I really do not know how to solve this behavior for now, any ideas?
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The water can get in by the humidity of the air. When the motor heats up the air inside is capable of absorb more water form the air outside, when the motor cools down this water condensates.
I do not think that sealed motors are better, exactly because of this, they should have some type of drain port, but I really do not know how to solve this behavior for now, any ideas?
Strangely I think the same. I swear its been documented before. Seal your wheel and water ends up building up in it.
In fact I think everything that produces heat that Ive tried to seal air tight has ended up with water or moisture in it. Lights, controllers ect. Well at least thats what I have experienced.
Sealing some boxes that induce low expansion in front of an air-conditioner yields a cleaner job. Lights and lenses and stuff.
There is no solution. Ohh hang one guy found a material that allows stuff to move only one way through it.
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I think what happens the heat in the motor causes all the seals to vent out air then when it cools it breaths new air and humidity in. The cool steel and surrounding humidity under a slight vacuum returning to balanced with the atmosphere outside the case must cause condensation.
next ride the water turns into steam and the case environment expands again above atmospheric pressure. A small amount of steam air is pushed through the seals. The motor cools again and creates a slight vacuum, fresh air seeps into the motor slowly. and the cycle continues.
Think like an air compressor, you have to bleed the water out of them all the time.
I think normal weather pressure variation causes it to happen too and possibly contributes to the above effect.
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Perdigon.
These are the parts you need.
Buy more than you need.
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/948156-sensor-ss-hall-effect-bipolar-ss41.html
Replace them.
Maybe GM will send you out some replacements.
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hola
my battery is 36v
I see that the maximum 24v ss41
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hola
my battery is 36v
I see that the maximum 24v ss41
Yes the maximum for the ss41 is good for such a class IC and the thermal capabilities are within range.
When you put a battery on a controller, the power goes through regulation and becomes 3 different voltages.
>Full pack voltage for the fet source for maximum motor power
>12v for the gate drivers of the fet and
>5v for hall sensor, throttle sensor, PWM generation, logic and MCU power up.
If you test the supply of the all the hall power leads (red and black) They should be under 5v.
The SS41 is well within spec here.
You just need to make sure when you replace them you use the right materials to keep the heat from taking away the life span.
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thanks for the help
I placed an order for the hall sensor
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Yes now look at the way GM has put the Hall sensors into the motor.
On my hub they used a lot of heat insulation around long pin leads in between the stator and circuit board assembly to stop the hall pins from transmitting heat along into the IC.
How you put them in will either make it last long or last a couple of months.
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hi
I will mount the hall sensor
I must give varnish
after placement
thanks
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Good work.
I used varnish to set them. That worked. I think I had a problem with two part glue or the fact I once didn't use the heat resistant material in between the circuit board and windings.
I think soldered pins of the hall sensor transferred heat from the board solder tracks into the chip. On a hot day the heat got too much.
Keep this in mind and good luck.
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hello
I've seen a ping controller without soldering trea
ping of the three that has
the middle one is not soldered to the motherboard
this table must be a soldier?
is a coil
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I try for you to translate as your english is not good, this is OK. 8)
I understand motherboard as the PCB that is controller solder to.
The middle one is not on the motherboard, and its color wire is red? Black? Green? blue? yellow?
Is big wire or small wire?
Is this coil?
big wire is coil for motor and small wire is hall or throttle.
Maybe you are from the good country of South Americas?
GM brazil, Bruno could help you much here.
If not where is your country you are living?
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fotos
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This looks like a transformer. Yes coil. Switch mode on the new controller.
Not enough information in photo (foto)
Can you make full photo (100%) back (bottom) and front (top) controller to see all damage.
And no edit on the picture please.
The water has damaged controller much? ??? :-[
We try to fix. :D
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If controller had water damage.
position in the warm sun for some time to dry. 1 day or 2 days in sun.
Must allow water to go away 100% from electronics.
I try translate.
En español
Si el regulador tenía daño del agua. posición en el sol caliente por algún tiempo a secarse. 1 día o 2 días en sol. Debe permitir que el agua vaya lejos 100% de electrónica.
¿Usted entiende la traducción? usted responde en español en foro y traduzco.
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photos
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can someone that speaks this persons language help me out here.
Predigon. Make pictures bigger.
Start photo account at link below.
Upolad there and post the picture link.
http://photobucket.com/ (http://photobucket.com/)
Predigon. Por favor, Haces fotos más grandes. cuenta de inicio en el siguiente enlace. Subir foto ahí, hacer conexiones a las imágenes en el foro. gracias
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http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy354/deseo1802/IMAGE_2942.jpg
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Hola Perdigon.
¿Hace esto aparece iguales a la tarjeta de circuitos impresos del predigon?
Hello Predigon.
Does this appear the same as your printed circuit board.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1964.0;attach=2385;image)
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if same
welding is
thanks
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Sí. Gracias
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http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy354/deseo1802/pregunta.jpg
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Esto tiene resistencia baja y es bueno para muchos amperios. No necesita la goma termal. Éste es quizás parar los fets del choque del regulador, el regulador y el motor tiene parada termal electrónica si calienta. El motor obtendrá calienta antes de fets.
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Si el motor consigue muy caliente la goma termal transfiere el calor al fet. No bueno. La parada tan electrónica es mejor aquí. Mejor para proteger los fets contra el calor
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thank you very much
it helps you :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D