GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: wheeleeboy on February 06, 2010, 10:39:14 PM
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So I'm a college student who just needs a fast ride from my house to the college, which is 2.5km away. The road there and back is flat with no hills. What type of conversion kit should I get? I've been reading about the Magic Pie but I hear that people have problems with it and it is not as fast as some of the older models. I was thinking about getting the 48V 1000W system found here: http://www.goldenmotor.ca/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=33&=SID#MOREINFO . Would this be a better choice? I don't need long runtimes but I do need speed. I also don't want the thing to break on me like I hear MP has on some. The MP is also more expensive. Ideas? Thanks!
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2.5k of flat road? You don't need a motor for that, just use a regular bike and leave a few minutes earlier.
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true mabman lol. Personally I would go for 72v with a 1000W motor and impress your mates as you go past at 35 mph, You could get away with a low cost lead acid low AH battery for that distance.
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72v is alot of weight in SLA's :-\
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hi hardcore. Yer wouldnt be practical on a bike were you were going to do big miles but for 5 k how many ah would you need ? 6 x small ones ?
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if you get 6ah orso I don't think it would deliver enough amps, unless you get lipo's without bms, that's also cheap
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how would I go about doing this 72V battery trick? I want to keep it simple and small
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Hi Wheelee boy. 6 x 12 v batteries in series. can be done easily and lots of people do it. but best to ask one of the more technically minded people on here for full details. BUT. ive seem it done with high quality rechargable power tool batteries.
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Would it be cheaper to do it this way? Would it also take less space? Do you need a different controller? And would it do damage to a hub that takes 48V normally? Thanks!
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hey, I got accros this website (http://www.electricscooterparts.com/batteries.html),
12 Volt 5 Ah/Amp hour Electric Scooter Battery
12V 5Ah/Amp hour Universal Power Group® model UB1250 electric scooter or bicycle battery. 1/4" tab connectors. UL® Approved. Includes full 12 month Universal Power Group® battery replacement warranty. warranty details (http://www.electricscooterparts.com/batterywarranty.htm)
Replaces: All similar sized 12 Volt 4Ah and 4.5Ah electric scooter/bike batteries.
Size: 3-1/2" long x 2-3/4" wide x 3-15/16" high (90mm x 70mm x 102mm)
Weight: 3.2 lbs
Item # BAT-12V5A
Click here for more information on this battery (http://www.electricscooterparts.com/scooterbatteries12v5ah.html). BAT-12V5A
$16.95
it's 12v 5AH and cost 16,95
if you take six of them you get 72v and 5ah it would be 149,70 USD that's almost 100 EUR
you also need a charger.
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Do you need a different controller? And would it do damage to a hub that takes 48V normally? Thanks!
Yes, you would need a speed controller which can handle 83V! (6 fully charged batteries @ 13.8V = 82.8V) as GM controllers are only rated for 60V MAX!
The 48V hub might just cope with 72V on the flat, but could suffer from overheating (possibly causing internal damaged) if it was forced to work hard for too long.
Alan
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i think the hub can take more than 48v definetely
but I don't think you get any warrenty if u use more than 48v or more than 60v.
i read on the ES forum there was someone who makes controller for like 160usd, this could be an option for you as you need a 72 or more controller. I also think crystalyte controllers take up to 72v
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Thanks for the help everyone. I think I could probably do this but my biggest problem would be taking a risk as to buying different parts and having something break on me, therefore = $$ lost. I think I'll take the safe route seeing as I have never done anything with ebikes and just buy a complete kit from GM. Thanks again!
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i did the same but now i'm looking at a rc motor, that delivers 6kw and alot of Nm and rpm
i'm thinking of a turnigy motor and ESC but don't know how to connect to a throttle or so.
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i'm looking at a rc motor, that delivers 6kw and alot of Nm and rpm
i'm thinking of a turnigy motor and ESC but don't know how to connect to a throttle or so.
You would need a separate 5 volt supply, as the speed controller does not have built in BEC, and could probably modify a servo tester to control the speed controller using a normal twist throttle in place of its potentiometer:
(https://hobbyking.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/565x414/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/legacy/catalog/servodriver.jpg) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8296)
Fitting the motor would be your biggest problem:
Being an outrunner motor, the main shaft and the outer body rotate together and only the back plate (where the leads are attached) remains stationary, making it much more difficult to mount securely.
As this motor runs at over 6000rpm at 48V, it will also need some form of gear reduction to provide decent torque and a suitable top speed without overloading it at low revs.
Fitting this motor to a bike would certainly be possible, but it would take a lot of work to do it.
And don't forget you will need a suitable battery pack that can deliver 120Amps continuously!
Two 6S 5Ah 25C LiPo packs in series would just be able do this, but would only last for two and a half minutes at full power.
Four of these would give you 5 minutes:
(https://hobbyking.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/565x414/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/legacy/catalog/8586.jpg) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8586)
It's not quite as simple as it may first appear.
Although someone has already done it:
Here's the video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1elKhAddogA)
Alan
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so it is possible, also how many ah do you think I need, and also could I use 36v instead of 48v as the rpm will be reduced and the ah will go up.
maybe I don't need 6kw but it would be nice to have more than the confencial 1200w max on the mp.
can I connect a controller that delivers about 50amps con, because 120a continious will empty an 12ah in 6 min. I need to go about 1 hour so if I get about 30ah orso then it could draw 30amps for an hour and 30amps on 36v is p = u * I = 1080 watts and 4700 rpm.
with gear reduction of 10:1 it would go 470 rpm and that's on a 26 inch wheel a nice topspeed.
so a big motor
controller
servo tester to control speed
5v supply
big battery pack.
how much is this going to cost me
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a bit off topic but what about a cyclone 1200w motor or the 1500 double motor for 75km/h or 75mp/h?
i already have a 48v 12ah so it woult just be about 400eur
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You could try it this way with an outrunner..... lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv7EOP0NF0
:D :D :D
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Just going back to between MagicPie and the 1000W 48V, is it better to get the 1000W 48V? From what I read the MP still has bugs in it and I don't mind taking the extra time to install the 1000W. It's also cheaper. Is there any differences other than this? Also, I have a rear suspension bike. Where can I get one of those racks that just hold on to the seat and not have supports running down to the axle? Thanks!
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go to the mp site there is the rack 002, also in the diy section
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You could try it this way with an outrunner..... lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv7EOP0NF0
:D :D :D
:o :o :o
That is not as sketchy as this one that I saw on a gas bike board though.
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He wants speed on a flat, and dependability. Get A GM kit with the GM slide off lithium battery.
My 12V 500W goes 20 some MPH. I have had No problems. I have worn out the tire. I have left it outside in the snow and rain.
I get about 6 hours to kill battery. I will buy a larger kit. I can't go fast enough!
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Sounds great! Can't wait to get mine but I think I'll order it once it starts to get warmer and I find a new place to live.
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Looks like fun , But Since the 2-stroke is fitted in the front, breathing the fumes must give bad headaches........... LOL :D
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Not to mention what the consequences might be if you go over the handlebars :o
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Or if a copper puts his hand up to stop U !!!!
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When propellers won't do you need the V2 version.
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Talking about a V2...... This is a test I did together with a friend of mine (a blacksmith) Me being the artist with the bright Idears and him being the handy man with all the wright tools . Whe upsized some drawings we found on the net to make a pulsejet for a RC plane 400% and ended up with a giant engine that whe accually got working at a party 2007.
Mounted it on a small cart, hooked it up to a upside down propane tank (liquid propane straight into the engine) And modified an old car ignition to constantly spark to get the explosions going.
Then there is me with the leafblower trying to get some oxygen into the engine to get the explosions resonating ....
Then 150 + Db and 260 explosions/min
Yes that guy with the wool sweater and leafblower burning his eyebrows is me.
LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE7oKxOzjTQ
Could have mounted this to a my pushbike , but Hey I wanna ride silent and green...
;D
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This is a good vid as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3V5qbVbNLM
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Well that just reminded me that there are crazy people on all parts of the planet :D
Thanks for the link to Robert Maddox. I live in the same state as him although at the other end, but will have to make an effort to look him up. Maybe not for a test ride but he would be fun to talk to I'm sure.
And as far as you go Jerry that was quite the stunt and I am thinking that it took a while for your eyebrows to grow back after that party ;D
A bit on the tamer side but here is a vid I made of my gas bike, not rocket assist but it gets me where I want to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=GjsWmQCVQGs&eurl=http://au.youtube.com/my_videos_edit2&feature=player_embedded
I like both gas and electric but when it comes to speed, efficiency, carrying capacity and range the gas bike wins hands down. Cost is way less also. But as they say, it's all good.
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Watched it all the way to the end, just to get to know your neighbourhood. lol :D
Looks nice. I like your GM rack woody nr3...
and the whole DIY factor of it all...
Dont listen to people that tell you and sell you the whole thing as 1
DIY
Greetz JJ
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P.s. Since it is 2010 now,,,,,, My eyebrows did grow back....
Trust me ..... So don't hold back.... DIY
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Ok folks, I have the 48v 1000w hub. I have my CA-DP properly calibrated. My tire properly calibrated. Have made some changes to my system as Ive worked along, and heres where Im at.
I got the 48/1000 ran with GM stock controller, weanie...
Traded up controller from stock to Infineon 36-48/72v 45a. Still on 48v. Ran solid! Fresh batteries took me up to 31mph, leveled off at a solid 27 mph. No problems. Wattage was high, but heat was not excessive, and no issues at all. I would say it could handle that contoller all day long without issues. I was concerned at first because the watts were so high compared to the 1000 watt rating, but it barely got more than nicely warm.
Upgraded batteries to 72v (on that infineon controller its just a flip of a switch to change the voltage ability). She came ALIVE!!! top speed on flat is now 37 mph! She goes like crazy! If I push it realy hard alot she gets very hot, I try to keep the big speed down to short runs with cool down time. She goes so fast now, I question my desire for more speed. Today I went the fastest Ive ever gone on a bike,
(http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu332/dustydonnay/The%20Silver%20Surfer%20-%20RAPTURE/DSC_2777.jpg)
This was with the downhill help, as I said, my normal top speed is 37 mph.
by the way, I weigh 350+ lbs and my bike has 6 12v 18ah sla's on it. can Magic Pie do that?
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She came ALIVE!!! top speed on flat is now 37 mph!
She goes so fast now, I question my desire for more speed.
can Magic Pie do that?
The Magic Pie seems to have plenty of torque, but not as much speed.
My Magic Pie won't even run at all if the battery voltage is over 60V, and its current is also limited to just over 20Amps max regardless of the voltage!
So without a major rewire and a different controller it simply cannot compete with that sort of speed. :(
Hot battery messures 79v hit 55 amps peak hot of the press, 4345 watts actual! I didnt get over 32 mph cruise on flat, so the top speed was the same as 48v, but with the 12 FET Instant Start Infineon controller and 72v of SLA's, she was able to hit that and keep it all the way to work, where as with 48v once the batteries got warmed up the cruise speed slimmed down to around 27mph.
So what has changed to get the extra speed out of it now?
Alan
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Using a Watt metter my pie shows 30A of max current
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Using a Watt meter my pie shows 30A of max current
I tried several different battery combinations, but according to my watt meter, my maximum current was only 20.33Amps: ???
Battery No load voltage Max Amps Min Volts Max Wattage
24V SLA 25.76 20.14 23.09 465
25.9V LiPo 27.30 20.29 25.80 525
36V SLA 38.70 20.21 34.79 703
48V SLA 51.50 20.33 44.99 915
48.1V LiPo 50.30 19.85 47.75 949
55.5V LiPo 58.70 20.08 55.51 1115
59.2V LiPo 61.63 voltage too high to test (the Pie refused to work!)
I don't know if it's a software limit programmed into the controller or whether it's limited by the controller's components, but it would be really nice to know why they are different and whether it can be easily adjusted. ;)
Alan