GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Gapy on January 27, 2010, 07:37:34 PM
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Hello everybody...
1.)
I have tried to set up my CA SA, to max speed 20 km/h and max Amp 10A in setup, but it does not work-it alway goes with a max throttle! Anybody tried those functions?
2.)
Does anybody knows what the second button does(if installed)
Thanx
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Did you solder the throttle wire up to the cycle analyst?
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj276/Spekkie01/IMG_5299.jpg)
The Th on the print?
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How about...
Does anyone know if you can use one Cycle Analyst for 2 motors, or do you have to buy 2 of them?
Currently I'm using 2 of the Turnigy Watt Meters, and would LIKE to use Cycle Analyst for the speed / amp limiting function, but 2 of them would be $300 as opposed to the $50 I spent on the two Tunigy's
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stupid me... :-X I thought that the throttle override and current/speed limiting is a diffrent function and you don't need to connect the throttle.... What about second button function-what is it?
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Does anyone know if you can use one Cycle Analyst for 2 motors, for the speed / amp limiting function?
Frank,
If you are using a single battery and single throttle device, it can simply be wired as per the instructions to control the speed/current limit of both motors.
If you have two batteries (independently wired to each motor) the wiring will need to be slightly different, and it will only be able to monitor the current drawn by one of the two motors.
If the motors are identical, I would suggest fitting the shunt on the Rear one.
If the motors are different types, I would suggest fitting the shunt on the most powerful one.
If you are using separate throttle devices, each will require its own diode and resistor to be wired in as per the standard instuctions, before they are joined together.
I would recommend they are joined externally to a single wire, which will then go to the "Th" connection inside the Cycle Analyst.
I can post a modified a wiring diagram if you need it.
Alan
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I don't understand what you mean with second button..... Could you explain more?
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Upper left corner on the attachment "B2" connection-manual says it is optional 2nd button input (not implented in V2.1 firmware)-any ideas?
B1 is primmary button input...
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I think this means you can ad an extra button to be positioned somewhere else. I asume it has the same function as the button already on the cycle analyst.
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Ok, you got a point, but why would someone plan a 2nd button "soldering place" if you could simply go paralell with the one wich is allready implanted!
Maybe it shifts down on the menu!?
Well I guess I will have to try it...
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Dont realy know, I have the 2.1 version.
Did not read the other guide......
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Unfortunately Alan,
I have two motors, two controllers, both 36v, and both motors are capable of speeds above 20 even speed limiting one of them... Even if I were to limit the amperage on both, to lets say 15 amps, 15 amps would propel the small 20" motor to faster than 20 mph.
The whole reason for having two motors was to allow for my bicycle's amperage usage to be much lower for both batteries, than with a single large battery/motor, hence giving me more range.
While I'm doing 20mph, the current (pun intended) usages are...
The Front battery{15ah}/motor to use only 4.5 amps and the rear battery{30ah}/motor (at the same time) to use only 9 amps.
Hence giving me 3 hours (4.5 amps x 3 =13.5 ah on front batt) and (9 amps x 3 = 27 ahm on the back batt) for a total of 60 miles distance, with some room to spare...
If I cut it down to 3.5 amps on front battery and 7 amps on back battery, that will give me a speed of 18 mph and lets me go for 4 hours for a total of 80 mile range (plus giving me a reserve of 1ah for the front and 2ah for the back which translates into lower DOD and saving a little of recharge cycling.
Since I'm keeping the amps low (hence, using less 'c' rate {i.e. even if I used 5amps for front and 10amps for back, that would still be 1/3rd 'c' rate.)
I charge the front with 3amp Charger ('c'/5) and back with 5amp charger('c'/6)
I have used about 1000 recharges on 'em and they are still 100% soc..
They both read 43.2 when fully charged.
My best mileage has been 111 miles total round trip (while doing approx 17 mph) with wind behind me most of the way, to BMS cutoff to both batts at the EXACT same time. (first time i've even had them go even CLOSE to BMS cutoff - Most of the time, I do about 65% of DOD)
Thankfully, I was literally 200' away from my front door.
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If you are using separate throttle devices, each will require its own diode and resistor to be wired in as per the standard instuctions, before they are joined together.
I would recommend they are joined externally to a single wire, which will then go to the "Th" connection inside the Cycle Analyst.
I can post a modified a wiring diagram if you need it.
Alan
I have not ordered mine yet but I will be using dual throttle
what would this re wireing consist off ?
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If you are using separate throttle devices, each will require its own diode and resistor to be wired in as per the standard instuctions, before they are joined together.
I would recommend they are joined externally to a single wire, which will then go to the "Th" connection inside the Cycle Analyst.
I have not ordered mine yet but I will be using dual throttle, what would this re-wiring consist of?
This should be all that is required for the GM Cruise (and/or Magic Pie) Controllers:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/CADualThrottle-1.JPG)
After some experimentation, the recommended 3-5K resistor needed to be replaced by a 330 Ohm resistor for correct operation with the GM Cruise and Magic Pie controllers.
This also required the shorting of resistor R6 on the Cycle Analyst's circuit board, which can be done by putting a jumper on J6 soldering a small piece of wire across R6.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1490.0;attach=1834;image)
The switch is optional, but would provide a quick way to turn on a pre-set speed or current limiting function on the Cycle Analyst.
Alan
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stupid me... :-X I thought that the throttle override and current/speed limiting is a diffrent function and you don't need to connect the throttle.... What about second button function-what is it?
I have dealt directly with the people at CA. The second button implimented in version 2.2 does nothing other then allow you to control your settings easier. It functions mainly as a "go back" button. The other difference between version 2.1 and 2.2 is if you use the VI advanced hookup method for cruise on version 2.1 there was a bug that gives the wheel a sudden short lived quick burst of power when you turn on the key. This bug was corrected with a firmware update for version 2.2. Keep in mind though the GM cruise button does not work with the VI method, you must use the diode/resistor method for your cruise to still work. The other changes from v2.1 and 2.2 are buttons on front instead of side and wires come out back instead of side to give it a cleaner looking instalation. I have both manuals and there are no other changes, none that are documented at least.
Gary
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I think I may be starting to actually loose my mind. I took the casing off my CA. I can't find J6 on my 2.2 motherboard. R6 is clearly marked. Do I just solder a jumper on that? Can someone point it out to me? Thanks.
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I think I may be starting to actually loose my mind. I took the casing off my CA. I can't find J6 on my 2.2 motherboard. R6 is clearly marked. Do I just solder a jumper on that? Can someone point it out to me? Thanks.
I just went out and opened my CA V2.1 up, R6 is the one I jumped. I also opened a v2.2 just to check and the R6 is still in the same spot. Did I say J6 somewhere. I think thats a flashback to building PC's. Sorry...
Gary
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Well went out earlier to The Source and picked up a mini diode and 330 ohm resistors. Soldered them in place. Since I don't have lights on my bike, I hooked up the button in between the throttle over ride and the diode. This way I can turn the throttle over ride off and on easily. As soon as I got confirmation that it was the R6 resistor to solder across on the CA circuit board, I went a head and did so. I then threw everything back together half ass and went for a spin to test everything. Everything actually worked!!!
I must say. I never thought with my limited knowledge in circuitry, I would ever take something that costs $160 (Cycle Analyst) apart and start soldering stuff. Then with zero knowledge of resistors and diodes (except for research I did this morning on the internet), start wiring them into my nearly new e-bike. All this being done using advice and direction from a group of complete strangers I've never even met. But it works, thanks to you guys on this forum.
YOU GUYS ROCK!!!
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YOU GUYS ROCK!!!
I know! I love this forum too! The thanks go back to Alan too as he came up with the 330 ohm resistor and the jumper on R6. As usual he researched and found this information somewhere, I tried it and it worked! I was so happy. Now I really tweak the CA settings for power conservation.
Gary
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After doing a little testing, I've noticed that at full throttle there is only 3.23 volts going to the controller from the throttle signal. Will this lower voltage affect torque or top speed? Full throttle before hooking up the CA was 3.68 volts.
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I was asked what my throttle readings were at full and at rest and below is CA support's reply
Full Throttle 3.76 Volts
Throttle at rest 0.9 Volts
OK, then when you are going in the direct current control mode, you should set ITermMax and ITermMin to these values. When you are running the system in throttle over-ride mode, then you should use these values minus a 0.6V diode drop (so 0.3V and 3.2V).
By direct mode he means the VI method and by throttle overide he reffering to the diode/resistor method.
So set your ItermMax and ItermMin according to this and I assume this takes care of it. You should be able to tell if there is a difference by using your switch.
Gary
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Even when switching off the throttle over ride, I still only get 3.23 volts. This is because the resistor being present. I went for a short ride in the rain. I still seem to be getting a top speed of 38 kph.
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Denis, the throttle starts at ~1.25V and Maximum power is reached at ~3.25V.
A voltage higher than 3.25V will not produce any more power.
Your 3.23V should produce ~99% of the available power, which should be close enough. ;)
Alan
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Denis, the throttle starts at ~1.25V and Maximum power is reached at ~3.25V.
A voltage higher than 3.25V will not produce any more power.
Your 3.23V should produce ~99% of the available power, which should be close enough. ;)
Alan
Thanks for clearing that up. I assumed that just because originally my throttle sensor was putting out a voltage of 3.68 volts at full throttle, that the controller needed to see that much voltage to hit full throttle.
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Hey Denny123,
Since your a pie rider with a CA can you give us some stats at how many watts you are burning at various speeds like 20kph, 32kph , full speed and if you are a light medium or heavy rider?
Gary
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I'm mainly a trail rider. But I do ride the streets in order to get to the trails. So far I've put my pie through hell and back. The only problem I've had so far was, the round connector Near the motor vibrated loose on a very rough trail. It only took a few minutes to track down the problem. I just pushed it back in, and away I went. Over the next couple days, I'll note power useage at different speeds. Give me a few days and I'll post them.
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While out riding today, I decided to note power usage cruising at various speeds. I learned quickly that the slightest wind resistance really altered results. Specs are:
Dual suspension bike
48 volt rear wheel Magic Pie
4-12 volt 14ah SLA batteries total 36 lbs.
Myself 165 lbs.
I gathered all my information from my Cycle Analyst. To the best of my knowledge, here's what I figure my averages are on the flattest ground possible with as little wind resistance as possible:
25 kph- 200 watts
32 kph- 350 watts
38 kph- 520 watts
38 kph is my maximum speed.
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While out riding today, I decided to note power usage cruising at various speeds. I learned quickly that the slightest wind resistance really altered results. Specs are:
Dual suspension bike
48 volt rear wheel Magic Pie
4-12 volt 14ah SLA batteries total 36 lbs.
Myself 165 lbs.
I gathered all my information from my Cycle Analyst. To the best of my knowledge, here's what I figure my averages are on the flattest ground possible with as little wind resistance as possible:
25 kph- 200 watts
32 kph- 350 watts
38 kph- 520 watts
38 kph is my maximum speed.
Wow! those are good numbers. My numbers are like there are 3 people sitting on my bike. I also noticed the wind is a real impact on the numbers. It seems wind is like climbing a never ending hill.
Gary
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Wind (even slight wind) makes huge changes in Distance.
When my front mini motor was working I would get a distance of 18 miles on a full charge and when there is NO wind, I would get 23, that's almost a %30 drop in distance because of wind.
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Agreed on the wind resistance.
You would suspect a good hill adds to more but in many cases the wind is the greatest enemy.
On my near dead SLA I am lucky to get 18kms on a windy day compared to 25kms I may need to travel, on a normal day its fine.
I had a funny saying.
The wind doesnt go away where hills do.
Meaning once you get the bike going the impact on the batteries is a lot less when KE and GPE has been stored. The wind doesnt aid your ride unless its behind you.
My luck with the weather alot has me facing the wind both ways :( It blows one direction in the morning and the other in the afternoon.
I guess where the SLA had an advantage is it could store the KE (kinetic energy). Providing I don't use the brakes stupid like, I can get the power it takes to get the rider and bike going by free-wheeling or the energy stored in GPE (gravitational potential energy) when I climb a hill and go back down.
Weight can work against the wind better than lack of it.
In the end the lighter more aerodynamic bike always wins hands down. But the lesson I learned is to make the most of what you have to carry in your trips.
Brake = loss of energy and the conversion back to electrical energy in regen is a waste unless you really need to use the brakes.
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While out riding today, I decided to note power usage cruising at various speeds. I learned quickly that the slightest wind resistance really altered results. Specs are:
25 kph- 200 watts
This is close to the power consumption on my new protype solar powerd e-bike.
I have 36v 60 watt worth of panel.
It takes me 4 hours to my stuff and get home, (1 hour ride) on a regular trip and 60 watts X 4 is 240 watts. This is assisted by the solar panels and may at times be able to run solely on solar panels once I get it together properly.
This would be interesting on the cycle analyst and maybe I should purchase one of these gadgets to properly interact within this thread and give some stast.
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While out riding today, I decided to note power usage cruising at various speeds. I learned quickly that the slightest wind resistance really altered results. Specs are:
25 kph- 200 watts
This is close to the power consumption on my new protype solar powerd e-bike.
I have 36v 60 watt worth of panel.
It takes me 4 hours to my stuff and get home, (1 hour ride) on a regular trip and 60 watts X 4 is 240 watts. This is assisted by the solar panels and may at times be able to run solely on solar panels once I get it together properly.
This would be interesting on the cycle analyst and maybe I should purchase one of these gadgets to properly interact within this thread and give some stast.
Any pictures of this setup, I am very interested to see this!
Gary
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Oh dear its a mess of solar panels and welded pipes ATM... I am not a very good arc welder either. I am getting better though.
I am building a better trailer thats closer to the ground as the panels made it a little top heavy and I would roll the trailer around turns, no damage to the panels either.
Solar panels are electrically and stronger and superior than a switch mode buck and built very strong. They will last 25 years as long as I don't get hit by a car or fall on top of them drunk or something. They still are very strong.
I am building it in the process and should do some photos.
The last trailer which I will post today only supported 2X10 watt and a single 20 watt. I Put each panel outputs over each terminal so I could get the most out of the 20 watt..
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Here ya.
I just put the protype quickly "back" together for this picture, just resting the panels ontop. I used bungy cords to keep them down. This again was only temporary for the tests.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/solar.jpg)
The second trailer being built is designed to hold 4X20 watt panels, 80 watts all up for a 48v system. Most two amp 48v chargers are lucky to give up 90 watts anyway.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/Solartrailer.jpg)
I am going to fasten the panels to the top frame and allow it to hinge to allow access to the storage box and to allow the user to adjust the panel during rests to get the most of them.
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The panels in transit will and must remain flat, none of the tilting crap is going to be worth anything unless the trailer is still. Any added wind resistance will render them useless or even impractical while the trailer is motion, The trailer is needed for cargo food and stuff so the even with the added weight of the panels is still a win win situation. They are very light for the power they actually produce so it is a viable pursuit.
Preliminary test have indicated on a sunny bright day with max exposure they can double your range of a 12ah 36v pack in a 4 to 5 hour charging period in winter Queensland Australia.
Battery voltage did drop after a long run in my day but would soon enough bump back up to around 12.8v in 20 mins or so per 12v SLA. The panels are always assiting when the bike is in use.
In series my panels provide 66v and at battery terminal voltage of 39v produce 1.4 amps of current up to 51v. A regulator is needed but I havent run into this situation where panels will over charge the pack yet.
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(http://www.alternativeconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/Other_Authors/Summer_09/sunnorge2.jpg)
See here, at any decent speed, the wind resistance from the speed, or any wind at all on the panel when throttle is engaged, IMO can take more from the pack than the panel provides. A CA is going to help here to discover the WR (wind resistance) VS power produced.
If I was to build a such a trike it would be recumbent and have the panels flat overhead. I would make it so the panel tilts forward only to retain good aerodynamics.
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If I was to build a such a trike it would be recumbent and have the panels flat overhead. I would make it so the panel tilts forward only to retain good aerodynamics.
You mean something like this:
(http://www.solartrike.com/images/545_twin_solartrikes.JPG)
From: http://www.solartrike.com/ (http://www.solartrike.com/) from a quick google search.
Or Leslie, you and your Mrs could both go shopping and bring a load of groceries back with you, and keep your head dry if it rains:
(http://solarbikeproject.com/userfiles//SideBacklit.jpg)
Muzza.au
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If I was to build a such a trike it would be recumbent and have the panels flat overhead. I would make it so the panel tilts forward only to retain good aerodynamics.
You mean something like this:
(http://www.solartrike.com/images/545_twin_solartrikes.JPG)
From: http://www.solartrike.com/ (http://www.solartrike.com/) from a quick google search.
Or Leslie, you and your Mrs could both go shopping and bring a load of groceries back with you, and keep your head dry if it rains:
(http://solarbikeproject.com/userfiles//SideBacklit.jpg)
Muzza.au
Yes yes yes. He knows what he is doing, although the one on the bottom almost technically classes as a road train and scares me a little.
My welding skills are not that good, People are telling me to go DC welding but I really want to master AC first. I have my own idea how the AC should be and it inst anything like what I am using. I was thinking of controlling the pulse width on both active and neutral of the AC so I can retain some of the surface draw off the arc and get plenty of stick throw.. Thats another life time I think.
I do need and metal inert gas welder or something like that.
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Here ya.
I just put the protype quickly "back" together for this picture, just resting the panels ontop. I used bungy cords to keep them down. This again was only temporary for the tests.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/solar.jpg)
The second trailer being built is designed to hold 4X20 watt panels, 80 watts all up for a 48v system. Most two amp 48v chargers are lucky to give up 90 watts anyway.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/Solartrailer.jpg)
I am going to fasten the panels to the top frame and allow it to hinge to allow access to the storage box and to allow the user to adjust the panel during rests to get the most of them.
I noticed one of your pictures is gone from photbucket. You know I really like this idea. My mind has been going all week thinking about this, I think I may try making a motorized push trailor with batteries and panels all in one. Only problem is when would I have the time. Maybe this winter.
Gary
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Sorry for the bump. Looking into a CA for my Pie, and the recent solar pics are forcing my ego to chime in on my own project:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/jusamaphonic/IMG_2388.jpg)
More at http://solartrike.freehostingcloud.com/ (http://solartrike.freehostingcloud.com/)
Recent foible: SLA batteries going dead after ~2 months (Probably under 100 cycles). Perhaps it is related to different charging conditions (solar after the morning ride, wall charger overnight, add in regen braking and the poor electrons start getting vertigo). Looking into LiFePO4 batteries as a replacement for more long-term cost effectiveness, but I'm trying to work out how to kick up the voltage from the solar charge converter (no internal pots present for simple adjustment). Sorry, I'm drifting off topic now, I'll repost elsewhere if I get stumped.