LiFePO4 Battery Pack for e-Bikes?????

[robertozm]

Hi everyone!!
I am new in this forum; I am so new that actually I do not even have an ebike...yet.
Last week I recieved my 26" Rear Wheel 36V/500W Regen Braking Controller Thumb Throttle With Pedelec
N.º de artículo 26"RBRFP, and today I got my LiFePO4 Battery Pack for e-Bikes LFP-3615A, 36volt 15amp.

The wheel kit comes with no documentation at all.  Not of the motor, regen Breaking controller, or the pedelec system.
Its also funny that the wheel came with more washers on the cable side than in the other so I suppouse that in the cable side, it should be the hub motor+washer+bicycle+antispin+wascher+bolt.  On the other side, the hub motor+ gearsproket+ 2 washer+bicycle+bolt..  Is this way correct.?

I also have doubts of the pedelec system.  Has it be install in the chain side or the other, has to be install at a certain distance the sensor from the rotating magnets?

Today I got my LiFePO4 Battery pack for ebikes, and again without any documentation.  The charger got to led and one of them goes green when the fan goes off, but a few minutes later, the led goes red and the fan on, for a minute or minute and a half, and there we go again.

As most of the people in this forum, I tried to keep a polite, respectfull, and business talk with Philip Yao, but I am starting to think that the problem with this guy it is just a matter of education (since he rarefull and at wrong time answers), or his bosses don´t know it will be much more profitable for them to hire a new employee who take care of their customers.  I am starting to get angry with this situation.

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE,    HELP ME.  I want to ride an ebike...

[johnbear]

Hi everyone!!
I am new in this forum; I am so new that actually I do not even have an ebike...yet.
Last week I recieved my 26" Rear Wheel 36V/500W Regen Braking Controller Thumb Throttle With Pedelec
N.º de artículo 26"RBRFP, and today I got my LiFePO4 Battery Pack for e-Bikes LFP-3615A, 36volt 15amp.

The wheel kit comes with no documentation at all.  Not of the motor, regen Breaking controller, or the pedelec system.
Its also funny that the wheel came with more washers on the cable side than in the other so I suppouse that in the cable side, it should be the hub motor+washer+bicycle+antispin+wascher+bolt.  On the other side, the hub motor+ gearsproket+ 2 washer+bicycle+bolt..  Is this way correct.?

http://www.ecruza.com/UserManuals/index.htm

I also have doubts of the pedelec system.  Has it be install in the chain side or the other, has to be install at a certain distance the sensor from the rotating magnets?

This has to be on the chain side -

Today I got my LiFePO4 Battery pack for ebikes, and again without any documentation.  The charger got to led and one of them goes green when the fan goes off, but a few minutes later, the led goes red and the fan on, for a minute or minute and a half, and there we go again.

This happens when the cells are balancing, at least with my lifepo4's.

As most of the people in this forum, I tried to keep a polite, respectfull, and business talk with Philip Yao, but I am starting to think that the problem with this guy it is just a matter of education (since he rarefull and at wrong time answers), or his bosses don´t know it will be much more profitable for them to hire a new employee who take care of their customers.  I am starting to get angry with this situation.

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE,    HELP ME.  I want to ride an ebike...

I hope that helps a bit.

[robertozm]

Thanks Jonnbear, but as you can see those are the instructions for a front wheel, and you can not see properly the number washer and all the things I mention.
Either it is not useful for me for the regen controller "start up instructions" since I´m lost from point 2 onwards.  What do I have to bridge???

For the pedelec system is not even mention, so I don´t know what distance I keep from the moving magnets or how is to be install?

Thanks Johnbear, but before I send this topic, I went through the all forum looking for answers and information, and I have downloaded a few diagrams, instructions, and measures.

Thanks anyway

[caradec]

Hi Robertozm,
I have a rear motor as well as a front one (not both on the same bike !), and the washers order is like you wrote "hub motor+washer+bicycle+antispin+wascher+bolt". It seems that an antispin is missing on the other side for you, because for me it is "motor+gearsproket+ washer+bicycle+antispin+washer+bolt".
As for the pedelec, it is placed on the left side, with a 2" maximum distance between the sensor and the magnets.
Let us know !

[robertozm]

Hi Robertozm,
I have a rear motor as well as a front one (not both on the same bike !), and the washers order is like you wrote "hub motor+washer+bicycle+antispin+wascher+bolt". It seems that an antispin is missing on the other side for you, because for me it is "motor+gearsproket+ washer+bicycle+antispin+washer+bolt".
As for the pedelec, it is placed on the left side, with a 2" maximum distance between the sensor and the magnets.
Let us know !

THANKKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Thank you very much, at least I have all the mechanics clear (I think;))

Can you help me with the regen controller?  Because, as it said in the http://www.ecruza.com/UserManuals/index_files/Page388.htm
I am lost from nº 1, I don´t  know "Locate" ... "SHOR OR JUMP....  I am completely ignorant in electric or electronics.   Maybe I should have buy a already assembly kit, not this golden Motor quiz... gamble.

Actually I have buy a new bike since my old one does not fit very well with all the things that have to.   So, I decided (really it was decided by the guy at the shop how is really good at his job sell bikes), to buy a new one, and I order a few changes, and I also order a lathe operator to help me with an aluminium box for the battery and the controller.  Also looking for some kind of conectors (mainly military staff) how can handle properly with water, and the diferent signal that have to manage (power motor, batery indicator, throttle, pedelec...).  I think by next friday I will be on my working ebike.   

[caradec]

It was a pleasure  .
Unfortunately, I can't be of a strong help about the regenerative controller : I actually had one, but never heared of the instructions from ecruza. I simply replaced the "standard" controller by the regen one. I was so disappointed with it (low speed, enormous braking, 2 series of hall effect sensors fried) that I threw it away !
Now I am riding with a non-regen sensorless controller.
Did you try to simply wire your controller with the battery, the throttle and the motor according to the wires colors ?

[robertozm]

It was a pleasure  .
Unfortunately, I can't be of a strong help about the regenerative controller : I actually had one, but never heared of the instructions from ecruza. I simply replaced the "standard" controller by the regen one. I was so disappointed with it (low speed, enormous braking, 2 series of hall effect sensors fried) that I threw it away !
Now I am riding with a non-regen sensorless controller.
Did you try to simply wire your controller with the battery, the throttle and the motor according to the wires colors ?

Sorry but I was away for the weekend.

I hope I won`t do the same with my controller as you did.

I did not wire anything yet, because I recieved the motor before the battery and I send it to the bike shop so the will fitted in my new bike;  later on I recieved the battery and I went for a aluminium box for the battery and the controller, and it won`t be finished until wednesday.

I would like to have the option like in http://www.armybikes.com/journeykitsfitting.htm, where you can swicth from pedelec to normal, and I don`t know if I can do the same with the regen function since in the diagram you can see a pair of cables and read Enable/disable Regen Function, but I don't know if I have to bridge with a swith or what??
Another question is if it is advisable or needed a fuse, and of what amp ?
http://www.megaupload.com/es/?d=UWMH28EC
thanks.

[OneEye]

I would recommend a fuse, I think something around ~30A was the consensus last time it was discussed.  The stalled motor amperage reading provided by sdalli in his "watt's uuuppppppp" thread lines up with this recommendation.

Would be nice to hear if you could use a switch connected to a jumper header to selectively enable and disable the regen function.  That could open up a whole realm of possibilities and a variety of DIY control schemes.  The remaining downside is the reportedly lower top speed of the regen controller.

[robertozm]

I would recommend a fuse, I think something around ~30A was the consensus last time it was discussed.  The stalled motor amperage reading provided by sdalli in his "watt's uuuppppppp" thread lines up with this recommendation.

Would be nice to hear if you could use a switch connected to a jumper header to selectively enable and disable the regen function.  That could open up a whole realm of possibilities and a variety of DIY control schemes.  The remaining downside is the reportedly lower top speed of the regen controller.

Thanks OneEye.
Where would you placed the fuse? Have you seen the diagram I put on the link? 
Battery, fuse, switch, controller?

[OneEye]

Fuse goes between the power source and the load.  In this case between the battery and the switch, although I thought these were generally put on the negative lead of the battery pack, rather than the positive.

I just now followed your link to the schematic.  Can't say I like your image/file host that much. 

Be careful with your direction switch.  It is rumored if you change the phase direction while under way you will let out the magic smoke.  Just make sure you are at a near stop before engaging reverse.

It would seem you should be able to disable the pedelec with a switch, as the controller does not require a pedelec to be connected to operate.  I have not heard of anybody's results in this regard however.

Nobody has posted any information on a regen disable jumper either, so you are breaking new ground.  Hopefully you are not also breaking your controller

Good luck!

[andre]

Hello... I react on "nobody has posted on regen controller"...
I have a regen controller plus 36v500w GM +throttle+pedelec+cycle analyst with now a thotthle overide functionnality that can control my max speed, max amp, and low bat voltages ...
plus... a switch on the regen disable jumper...
I also operate pedelec or throttleOR throttle only, simply by connecting or disconnecting Pedelec connector.

All this being powered by 37v15ah lifepo4 GM pack...

I just plug and play the regen, without considering the phase detection because everything seems pretty fine like that.
I used to reach 33-34 km/h top speed under 40-42V which is the max voltage level of the bat pack.
This is without pedaling.
I reached up to 55km range on a round rip, generally I record with the cycle analyst about 10 to 15% regenerated energy. Which is quite a lot I think.

As discussed in other post for lifepo4... with Draggin, I believe the difference of speed that could be highlighted by some or the other "due to regen vs standard controller" is not so obvious for me... perhaps the max voltage of the battery pack should be compared also. some 37v pack and charger could reach 45-46v if I well read? This I believe could make a speed difference more that the regen vs standard controller...Like also the ... tyres, weight (bike + driver), and aerodynamic!!!

 Any way, it is a real happiness to slow down smoothly by the reversed engine instead of just putting calories out by mechanical braking. the transition is soft, there is a slight delay between motor and regen phases, mostly due to to magnetic field reversal inside the motor, I presume. But when it slow down (regen) you really feel it! Regarding the contact, I took out the contactors delivered inside the brake lever and glue them on my the bottom of my shimano combined brake +speed selector levers. Any time I slow down sufficiently the the trottle ( if unsufficient, I'm only I free wheel, which some time could be appreciated), or any time I brake, this will go automatically to regen phase, I also drove a bionx (matra bike) for testing phase, and mine works pretty much the same way, except that I have not the famous fashion e control with lcd display.... which for me is more than a gadget once you have found the real working setting. However, the intend was to have a fully suspended bike (front and rear) and a little more power than proposed here in france either for battery and for engine (also beneficial in reverse phase) and on top to limit the whole price to approximately one third of the matra bike!!!! and I'really happy: that works!!! 
I also put a switch on the regen jumper, and you can effectively slow down only free wheel without regen function activated.. This is useful in particular when going slow to follow a simple bike....

Perhaps one day I will buy a standard controler to check if I reach any higher top speed, but this is far to be sure, according our discussion. Also, bing installed on a mountain bike with front and rear suspension, the wight should be around 28.5-29kg, battery included (15kg bike + 8kg motorized wheel+5.5 kg battery)

regarding the fuse, I have a 20a on line just after key switch, and I never burnt it, even if sometime the peak amperage are going beuyond 30a for a few sec... I believe 30A plus motor stall is not prudent... you could easily rech if you maintain this position for a while around 40v*30a = 1200Watts input (seems a bit heavy for a 500w nominal power motor isn'it?!!! (I prefer to limit a 40*20=800Watts approximately the maximum continuous power in case of stall motor or heavy ramp)

My top problem for the time being is my Golden Motor LifePo4 battery pack, either the BMS or the charger I don't know (perhaps more the charger) that do not allow to reach the max capacity of the battery by following standard charge procedures. following the 3 first weeks without problem (i.e. up to 55km range, battery charger works around 7 to 8 hours red light on...), I can now  reach only 26km on the same trip if I let the charger connected a whole night, during which the red light will now pass  green in around 2h30'... I believe this is a charger concern because I tested a multiple charge one day  (i.e full charge for 2-3hours + x time (wait one hour+one hour charge))...

This is a real concern for me, since I never know how much the battery is charged (allways volts around 42v when I start), and because my ebike is my single vehicle for the time.
I call, & mail several time Philip Yao (Philip, If you read the forum, I desesperately wait an anser from this problem...), but still waiting a feed back from him...(up to now I was specially happy with Philip help, Now , this is a shame, I start to change my mind, what a pain!!!)

Best regards,

Andre.

[robertozm]

Hello... I react on "nobody has posted on regen controller"...
I have a regen controller plus 36v500w GM +throttle+pedelec+cycle analyst with now a thotthle overide functionnality that can control my max speed, max amp, and low bat voltages ...
plus... a switch on the regen disable jumper...
I also operate pedelec or throttleOR throttle only, simply by connecting or disconnecting Pedelec connector.

All this being powered by 37v15ah lifepo4 GM pack...
......
Andre.

Hello Andre:
You don`t know how happy I`m at this moment. 
You have the same setting I`m trying to build, and IT WORKS!!!!!

As you may have picture, I don`t have any electrical or electronical knowledge, so if you pleased, it will be extremely helpfull and probably much more cheaper for me (I will burnt something, for sure), if you show me how you conect and where did you install the swithes and fuse etc...

I also have a question about the regen function switch:  Can you change between regen or not regen while in motion, or you have to be still?
How about the pedelec, can you change it in motion?
What about this cycle analyst? If you can`t know how much battery you have left, what it is usefull for, aside from statistics?

Could you please send me a electric sheme?

You have already been of much help, thanks 

[OneEye]

My top problem for the time being is my Golden Motor LifePo4 battery pack, either the BMS or the charger I don't know (perhaps more the charger) that do not allow to reach the max capacity of the battery by following standard charge procedures. following the 3 first weeks without problem (i.e. up to 55km range, battery charger works around 7 to 8 hours red light on...), I can now  reach only 26km on the same trip if I let the charger connected a whole night, during which the red light will now pass  green in around 2h30'... I believe this is a charger concern because I tested a multiple charge one day  (i.e full charge for 2-3hours + x time (wait one hour+one hour charge))...

Jump on over to the Endless Sphere Forums and tool around in the battery technology forums.  They have torn apart just about any kind of battery pack you can think of.  You probably have an out-of-balance set of cells that is limiting the pack capacity, which could probably be remedied with a single-cell charger rebalancing the whole pack one set of cells at a time.  Read a lot, post lots of pictures and ask a question and you will have just about every type of electrical engineer jumping in to suggest solutions.  They'll want to see the BMS circuit board and will probably ask you to take some voltage readings of individual cells.

Thanks for posting up your experience with the regenerative controller.  Up until now most of the opinions posted were rather dissatisfied with the control scheme, so it is good to hear that you have been able to configure it to how you like.

-Mike

[andre]

Mike,

thank for your answer. However, I doubt to be able to do better with the battery itself... by managing the style of "multiple charge" described below, I 've been able to reach again 55km and even up to 68km last time...at top speed 33km/h, average 28... and 15 % saved thanks to regen. this is not so bad for a 36v15ah? Moreover, I'm more worried about the charger....or the bms signaling wrongly a full charge when it is not yet full. This guess is just because this green charger light occur near 42v (41.8 generally...)

Robert,

I saw your email... sorry for tonight. I comeback from work too late to take picture... but however I will do it, asap... For the time, I understood you have solve your mechanical doubts... for the electric connectors you just first have to try to connect all the existing connector together... there is no room of error, all connector are different or have different color code (phases of the engine) , such that you can not make a mistake... Then for the fuse and switch, I just find XLR type connectors and switch in a electronic shop, together with a fuse housing... then I put them at the place of the hole existing for the power wire in the battery metal box, just near the charger plug already assembled in the battery box... just imagine the red big wire, and just say "F" is the Fuse and X is the switch and ":" the end 2 slot output plug, then I did anormal connection positive (red wire) to fuse then to switch, then to output plug; black cable (negative) direct to plug.

Red wire   (+) _____________________F___________X____________
                                                                                             :
Black Wire (-)_______________________________________________

(sorry, I'm not able to attach a better scheme, server is full)

regarding regen switch, I put it just behind my seatpost, below the battery box, on a box I used to protect the cables and connectors... so, I can do it while in motion, but that is not the intend, generally... Moreover it is really rare I do not use the regen function... only when I want to go extremely slowlyand free wheeling, like to follow normal bike, my daughter, etc...
Pedelec, I can't operate switch, I only can unplug the connector (also below the seat, near the battery....
Cycle analyst is very useful, I you can charge fully the battery! (it is not like a fuel gauge) the only pb is if you believe the battery is full, and that is not true,you will compare the total wattage or amps spend in your trip and compare it with theoretical values.... that you will never reach. However, the pb I have is very specific, and normaly you should not be afraid , just plug battery for a night charge and the morning you should have it full! I was able to reach up to 55 km on a charge before, now, I 'm never be sure to have fully charge the bat... but as explain above, guess it is a charger or BMS issue... more than a real battery cell trouble.

Hoping that helps \, waiting for pictures!

Best regards,

Andre from Toulouse.