GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Hugh on May 26, 2021, 09:41:48 PM
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I just bought a Magic Pie 2 with the external controller along with the cycle analyst v3. The v3 came with a 12 pole disc to act as a sensor trigger for the pas. Also the shunt was in the box. There are a huge amount of wires on the controller. Reading the instructions that came with the analyst it said to at least connect the throttle to the v3. The wires from one of the brakes was already plugged in the controller. Do I plug the other brake wire into the v3? Just what items get hooked up to the v3? Do I just ignore most of many wires coming off the controller?
I have hooked up a couple bafang mid drive and a couple tongsheng mid drive and a bionx and one one geared bafang hub drive but find this set up to be quite confusing. The motor is a rear model and is going on the right side of a home made delta trike and will have no gears on it. The left wheel uses a jackshaft system to route power from the pedals.
So far I have the wheel mounted, the 12 pole magnet system and its sensor are also mounted. The analyst, throttle, brakes etc are loosely set on the handlebar. Can I just make some type of box or bag for the controller. Since it is finned I assume it needs to be in some type of airflow. And yes I have read the analyst instruction several times and plan to read and print as much info from the golden motor site as possible before going any further. One small issue is the length of all the cables. I guess if the controller gets placed at the rear of the trike some of excess wire lengths can be managed. I will place a picture of the trike just to give an idea of the build. The rrof is removeable and is currently off.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J7kCYNMv/P1020952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtMFGBy5)
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Well after reading the instructions for maybe 8 times and printing any other info I could find I've managed to connect all the wires. Now to make some type of enclosure for the controller and trying to get all the wires bundled neatly.
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Almost ready to try. A coro box with some alum angle for stiffness has been added to the trike frame. I installed the external controller with the fins facing upwards. The battery was temporarily connected and all seemed well, the motor turned the wheel with the throttle. I'm putting an hour or 2 a day on this since I have other recumbents to ride and also other duties to attend to. So it's a slow process. By tomorrow enough parts will be installed so I can go through the instructions that came with the cycle analyst and ensure all the programming steps have been covered. Then off for a test ride.
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No luck getting this thing to work, Hopefully Monday when I phone Golden Motor someone will help me walk through the correct hook up procedure. Honestly if I had known it would be this complicated to set up I would never have bought it. I,ve installed a BBS02, a BBSHD, 3 Tongsheng mid drives and 1 Bafang geared hub and never had any problems.
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Hi Hugh,
It's strange that you have previously had the motor turning with the throttle but now it is not working. :-\
I have never used a Cycle Analyst so I can't offer any further advice, except that the earlier version of the Cycle Analyst had to be modified slightly to work with my simple throttle restrictor (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1490.msg9682#msg9682) on the early Magic Pies.
Check out this post (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1490.msg9755#msg9755) for further details.
Hopefully it will be something very simple like an incorrect setting in the Cycle Analyst.
(https://i.imgur.com/FnmD5lE.png)
Alan
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Actually the throttle does still power the wheel, put pedaling does nothing. The reason I got the cycle analyst was to enable the PAS system. I'm not looking for an electric motorcycle, I want to use my legs to help move this trike. I'm hoping its something simple, it would be nice to get this trike out on the road for a good test ride. Reading as much as possible there was one little nugget I will try today. There was mention of a safety protocol where to turn on the PAS system you must press the cruise button twice. It would be nice if that works.
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I opened a ticket and so far what I've heard is do you have the PAS programmed. My reply yes, as far as the grin booklet explained it. Also, do you have the speedometer hooked up? My answer is I never saw any procedures about hooking up a speedometer. So far still no PAS system.
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My bad on the speedometer issue. There was a wheel magnet sent in the package but I did not install it, the cable on the analyst was a bit short for the trike. So after checking the ticket response and re reading the grin booklet I spliced in a couple feet of wire and now get a speed and odometer reading. Only problem left is the PAS issue. At this point I'm pretty sure it's due to a failure on my part by missing some important step. Hopefully it will get resolved with assistance from the good folks at Golden Motor.
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I received a link to a video showing a couple ways to connect the cycle analyst to my Magic Pie that were supposed to enable the PAS system. Followed the instructions and No luck so far. Honestly just about ready to give up.
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I have now given up trying to get the PAS system to work. In all fairness the staff at Golden Motor did try to help but were unable to give any answers that got me up and running. The ticket system, well I see why they use it but I'm not a fan, it's slow. Being an older guy with obviously limited knowledge I do better talking to an actual human.
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Thinking of trying something else to resolve this PAS problem. I will take pen and paper and go through the screens on the CA and write down all the values on all the screens then go over to Endless Sphere and see if anyone there might have some info. I've been a member there for years and they can be brutal but some of them know their stuff.
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The Golden Motor "ticket" guys asked me to box up some of the pieces leaving them hooked up and to send them back to the company where they will attempt to resolve the PAS issue. They now feel it's a programming issue which prob means I,ve missed a step or steps. Either way they are and have been trying to help.
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Regarding the controller it gets rather hot and this could reduce its life. When I enclosed it in a metal box , I sanded of the fins and planed it. Then I used cooling paste a copper plate and a Alu CPU cooler on the outside of the box( a smaller one from an early pentium processor) and just bolted it all together. I probably shaved of 20 C or more at top load.
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I mounted the controller upside down in the coro box with the fins exposed to the air flow but have been thinking a sideways mount with the fins to the outside will be better. Less chance of a wire coming off and the box will still keep the wires out of any rain.
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the fins är not enough I checked with an IR-temp and the controller is running hot
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Good to know, thanks for the info. The folks at Golden Motor still have my parts, including the ext controller so when they are returned I will see what can be done to help with cooling.
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Hello Hugh,
I do not know anything about your controller or Pie 2. Thus my comment might not fit, but my experience with I think gen 5 Pie PAS would make me expect that Pie gen 2 PAS is not likely be very great ;)
I had to scale my PAS rate so high that it's practically pedal on off throttle as other vice it would not assist enough for slow uphill with my gears.
Thus if PAS is huge effort to get working might be better idea to have 1-5V signal to throttle and control it with PAS sensor ( and current speed & motor power ). The how to question is still open for me too as direct PAS to 1-5V would likely be as bad as my current gen 5 Pie PAS...
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Well I must give credit when credit is due. The ticket system - still not really a fan, but I do understand why they implemented it, does prob work for many small issues. Having said that the staff at Golden Motors did go above and beyond. I have been camping while they had some of the parts from my Magic Pie system and after returning home got a reply from them that they managed to get the PAS system working and my parts are in transit back to Winnipeg. Once the parts arrive everything will be reinstalled, probably a slow multi day process since we are in the midst of a heat wave and summers here are short, usually lasting 3 months or less.
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I received the parts back from Golden Motor. They indicated the PAS now works. It being summer and with many things to take care I've only partially installed the set up back onto the trike. Hopefully in the next week I'll get to it and test it out.
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I finally had time to attend to the trike and installed all the components that the guys at Golden Motor returned to me. Powering up the system shows that the PAS now works but it is unlike any PAS I am used to. With the trike on a pair of jackstands in the garage when I sit on it and peddle the PAS runs the motor in an intermittent way. On my other bikes/trikes when you turn the pedals the PAS simply engages and runs the motor(s) smoothly through the wheel rotatation. On the Magic Pie motor now when pedaling the motor engages then stops then engages again. Later today I will take the trike out for a test ride to see how that translates into a riding experience. It won't be a long ride, there is so much smoke from all the wild fires in Western Canada that outdoor exercise is not recommended.
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Hastings, I put a little over 32 km's on the the trike today. Outside temp was averaging a bit over 30 C. I checked the fins on the controller also the motor itself. Neither got any more then warm to the touch. I must say though I was not pushing the trike very hard, never over 22 kph and lots of slower stuff for intersections, etc
Have to give credit where its due, I adjusted the PAS sensor and went for another ride. The people at Golden Motor did an outstanding job on the parts I sent them. The PAS works great, the Cycle Analyst in conjunction with the Grin switch that enables me to dial in the level of assist with the plus and minus buttons is really nice to use. It cost me 6 volts to go a bit over 32 km's and the more I use it I'm pretty sure I will be able to stretch that out. I have 2 17.5 amp hour batteries and I think about 40 plus km's should be easy to get per each.
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I've been taking the trike out a bit more the last few days. Staying fairly close to home in case any issues arise. So far its all good. I have a couple Bafang mid drive motors in addition to the Magic Pie direct drive. The thing I notice the most about the Magic Pie is the whine it emits. I don't mind the noise but it is noticeable. All in all I'm now fairly satisfied with the motor, it has lots of power. I've been able to easily cruise along at 20 plus kph. On each ride after a long stretch I have stopped and placed my hand on both the controller and the motor. Never more than just warm to the touch.
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No issues with the set up now. It is very pleasant to ride. So now the next step is being planned. I made the Delta trike that the pie motor is on out of 1 1/2" by 1/8" thick steel tube I had laying around in the garage. It is a bit over 8' long and quite heavy. A couple days ago I picked up some thin wall square tube (1/16"). Using the old frame as a partial template a new, somewhat shorter frame will be built and it will retain the 26" rear wheels but have the front wheel changed from a 26" steel rim to a 24" alum rim. All part of a weight reduction plan. That will be offset a bit by a coroplast fully enclosed body.
I have built 2 different coro bodies on a homebuilt tadpole trike and one on a fat tire delta. Interestedly the blue coro fat delta can be seen on Pinterest by searching for enclosed trikes. Anyway one notable thing about the first 2 bodies was despite the weight the streamlining gave They took less energy to peddle and needed less power draw from the motors.