Author Topic: Frog style battery pack  (Read 13476 times)

Offline Sundsvall

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Frog style battery pack
« on: November 13, 2010, 11:21:55 PM »
Edits in red colour
I would like to give a review on the 24volt frog style battery sold by GM.
I’ve been using lead-gel batteries for the last winter on this bike and therefore have something to compare with. I can assure you that my expectation was high as the price was way over the lead batteries due to the weak Swedish currency. Now when I’ve shopped my economy to trashes on e-bike things, the Swedish crown is stronger than it has been for a very long time.

The first thing I noticed was that it was made for a much longer seat pole than I have on my 28” wheeler, so I mounted it backwards inside the triangle on the extension of the seat pole. It took some of the adjustment away from the rear wheel so I had to find a half link to the chain. This is because I have a 7-speed hub gear and therefore a fixed chain tension.

The battery pack has a key to switch all current off and also to release the battery from the mounting device. It’s just to turn the key a little bit more and lift the battery pack in its handle. To put it back isn’t quite as easy since I have to find the exact position to turn the key back. It should’ve been when the battery was distinctly in the bottom position but it wasn’t. I’ll probably drill the holes up an mm or so as it shouldn’t matter if they are a little bit larger than the locking pin. A cone on the pin is a better solution, but more difficult to achieve without dismantle the whole package.

The charger is proportionately large and therefore has to be carried along separately. This gives a slender look though, and after all a little inconvenience as it is still possible to charge it mounted on the bike.

The tests I’ve been doing so far are the ability to retain the voltage under load when it’s cold. Due to the youth of the winter I haven’t been able to test it in the lowest temperatures it will be operational in, but -11°C is probably enough for most of you. The lead batteries drooped already in -5°C and were nearly worthless in -25°C. This is most likely depending on the batteries quality and can vary a lot between different brands. The GM battery pack haven’t showed any lack of performance yet, even when I had it in the fridge for some time it just gave me the same power as before.

When I drove it in a healthy weather before the winter had arrived I could feel the difference in the hill climbing ability. With the lead batteries it was impossible to ride up the steep street behind my house without pedalling but now the bike does it easily. The batteries are 6 kg lighter which helps, but there has to be more power too for this kind of improvement.

I haven’t done a real distance test yet as she mainly just take me to the work. The difference to the lead batteries is obvious though as I can take a turn into town on the way home even if it is cold. The speed sensor for the CA is too far away from the magnet so I can’t measure speed or distance yet. I have mostly focused on the voltage under load, which seems to be extremely important for the efficiency. This is really something I like to now before I buy my next battery, the voltage under load in different temperatures. It’s amazing that this 250 watt motor take nearly 600 watt up the hill, and this is probably the answer for the increased performance. Even if the lead batteries could deliver the same current, the performance decreased due to the voltage droop.


A truly magnificent thing is that I managed to fit the controller and all of its cable in the mounting device which I didn’t expected. I wonder if this space is meant for the controller or if I just have very deft fingers. It gave a neat looking installation and very short battery cables.

All in all I am sincerely satisfied with this battery pack even if I have to adjust the holes for the locking pin. One thing to take in consideration is the amount of current it can deliver as I only have the mini-motor on my winter bike.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 09:13:54 AM by Sundsvall »
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline GM Canada

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Re: Frog style battery pack
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 10:51:05 AM »
Nice Review Peter!

I have a few questions. Is your battery 24 or 36 volts? What distance can you get from it? You say the setup is very clean, do you have any pictures?

Gary

Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Frog style battery pack
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 04:12:41 PM »
It took me three hour to write that review and still missed to write it is a 24-volt battery. I haven’t done a real distance test yet as she mainly just take me to the work. The difference to the lead batteries is obvious though as I can take a turn into town on the way home even if it is cold. The speed sensor for the CA is to far away from the magnet so I can’t measure speed or distance yet. I have mostly focused on the voltage under load, which seems to be extremely important for the efficiency. This is really something I like to now before I buy my next battery, the voltage under load in different temperatures. It’s amazing that this 250 watt motor take nearly 600 watt up the hill, and this is probably the answer for the increased performance. Even if the lead batteries could deliver the same current, the performance decreased due to the voltage droop.

Somebody wrote that I could’ve bought the 36 volt battery instead as it is no difference in the mini-motors. Wonder how much difference there’s between them if that’s true?

I’ll borrow a camera at my work this week and take some photos.

Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Leslie

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Re: Frog style battery pack
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 02:03:02 AM »
Nice froggy.

Good review and a first for this style pack. Ease of installation and functionality is one the key  points of this pack, but maybe you should edit the voltage and AH of your lubbly froggy in the original post Peter.


Do you know the cell voltage or chemistry of the cells too?  LiMn or LiFe?

IMHO a rear pack held close behind seat like a froggy is better then the long beam packs.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 02:10:36 AM by 317537 »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: Frog style battery pack
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 09:58:56 PM »
Edits in red colour
I would like to give a review on the 24volt frog style battery sold by GM.
It’s amazing that this 250 watt motor take nearly 600 watt up the hill, and this is probably the answer for the increased performance. Even if the lead batteries could deliver the same current, the performance decreased due to the voltage droop.
[/color]


Peter


Ohh yea I noticed the range increase too.  That voltage drop in the SLA's, not just lowers the voltage over the controller it burns that energy at what ever amps youre pulling * V drop.

Like if youre pulling 20 amps and you get a 1.2 v drop that 24 watts per SLA down the drain and this is what also limits the range in such a big way.  My god I use 55 watts to get into town the other day.  A 4 SLA battery pack series pack can lose up to 96 watts peak on large motors during high loads.

Our Li batts are lucky to drop by 1.5v for a whole pack at a higher load.  My LI pack drops about 1.5v on high loads at about 30 amps.





« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 10:01:25 PM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Offline Mago77

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Return on the Frog style battery pack
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 08:23:22 AM »
Edits in red colour
A truly magnificent thing is that I managed to fit the controller and all of its cable in the mounting device which I didn’t expected. I wonder if this space is meant for the controller or if I just have very deft fingers. It gave a neat looking installation and very short battery cables.
Peter

Hello Peter,
Could you (or anybody else) confirm that an external controller fits in the Frog Style package 24v would that be true for a 36V10AH?  That woul make associated with a mini motor a clean leasure kit.
Marcel

Offline Perbear

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Re: Frog style battery pack
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 10:09:39 PM »
I fitted a magic controller into my wife's frog style ebike battery holder. It is 36V and supposedly 10Ah.

It is a tight squeeze but worked out fine. I had to let the connections face upwards to make it fit so I put duct tape over the connectors to prevent rain and snow from entering the connectors from the slots between battery case and holder.