Author Topic: Progress  (Read 32453 times)

Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Progress
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2010, 06:23:41 PM »
And finally...


Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2010, 11:45:23 PM »
Wobbles in the front can often be blamed on too much weight in the rear and or an imbalance on the rear wheel.

Your rim may need to be re-trued as it may take a few rides to get any kinks out of your rim job.  

Maybe having the saddle on one side isnt helping much.

Wobbles:

Reduce rear wheel vibrartion with weights and trueing.

Balance weight on bike front and rear wheels as even as possible.  Try aim for no lower than 3 on the front/ to no more 5 on the rear, ratio.


Try this.   Standing beside the bike, hold the bike by that saddle bag, up balanced, balanced like you are riding it with no hands freely, you lean the bike left and the wheel turns left and vice versa, then  move it side to side  holding the saddle bag, shaking a little simulating a vibration, and see if you can simulate this wobble behavior in the front.  It will show itself soon.

A remedy to this is to move the pack onto the top frame cross bar and the bike may well become much better to ride.  Almost like a bicycle again.


By doing this the average weight distribution is moved to the centre of the bike meaning any vibrations with weight behind it will not use the length the frame to amplify this into your front wheel.  

That being said then tend to the front wheel.  Try get something solid, with a deep V or a strong steel rim.  Deep V should do the trick as they are pretty bend resistant.

Shes a looker and very nice, not so much as a performer or else it would look like a japanese clone with fairings and ultra alloy stuff.

But a single bug like the wobbles certainly doesnt take from her looks.  Maybe get the wheels balanced and try
controll the wobbles here first.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 12:10:03 AM by 317537 »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2010, 01:14:39 AM »
Half throttles are cool, You can rig up a simple pre-charge reistor to rid of all sparks.  You just make a 1st and 2nd connection plugs.

1st connector connects a resistor (200 ohm should be good), between your pack and controller and fills up the capacitors slower, no big spark.

2nd is the main cable connection between you pack and controller.  No spark at all.

Ive fine tuned it and timed it so I see no spark at all in normal lighting conditions.  This IMO is gentle in some of the controller parts, not so much delay to the inrush.  Precharge can be done in under 100ms maybe.  I think the slower relay switch by passed with a precharhge 200 ohm resistor may even allow enough time for the currents to charge the caps with no sparks.
  
I checked one of my old high powered relays last night.  I opened her up. This relay was using precharge resistor to reduce the arc over the main contacs, and it was like new.  Not a single arc site on either contact and had been used for over six month switching those caps.

The precharge resistor can help any switch and make it more reliable, safer.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 01:20:52 AM by 317537 »

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Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Progress
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2010, 05:47:08 PM »
I believe I’ve used wrong, or at least a little to strong, word. There’s no problem to drive the bike I’ve just noted that the front wheel isn’t straight and I can feel it slightly in the handlebar. I think that spoke wheels have to be adjusted after they have been used for a while and bicycle wheels are too cheap to have them stress relieved at the factory like motorcycle wheels.

The idea with a pre-charge resistor sounds good, it makes perfectly sense to slow down the charging of the capacitor. The spark wouldn’t bother me at all if I were sure that it would not drain my battery. The spark however convinced me that some electricity was flowing trough the cables even when I had turned the switch off. I tried to have them connected and released them for a few second and reconnected them again. The spark decreased but never disappeared completely that I think it should when the capacitor got fully charged. This is a non-problem now as I got the switch on the battery cable.
I still wonder though if you Mark drains your battery if you only use the switch on the controller and don’t disconnect the battery?

One thing that I didn’t like about the Infineon controller is that the regen can’t be adjusted. With the heaviness on the rear and the grip the wide tyre gives, it could definitely be more and I was calculating only to use regen as rear brake. The CA-DP (Direct Plug-in) have a few more functions than the CA-SA (Stand Alone) I have on the winter bike and was pre-calibrated to the Infineon controller which is a good thing. I must however “set the number of hall effect transitions” that the motor have, but I can’t find that information anywhere.
I will be delighted if someone can give me that number.

Shopping list:
Shimano Alivio brake disc and Shimano freewheel sprocket – cykeldennis.se
Sun Ringle DoubleWide disc rim – chainreactioncycles.com
48 V 15 Ah LiFePO4 Battery pack – pingbattery.com
Nirve Switchblade chopper and lights – beachcruiser.se
Magic Pie rear wheel – goldenmotor.com
Leather saddlebag – jafrum.com
Phil Wood heavy duty 13/14 gauge butted spokes – cycle9.com
Infineon 40 A controller and Cycle Analyst CA-DP with extension cable – ebikes.ca
Junction box, cables, cable ties, switches, shrinking hoses, etc. – clasohlson.se

Btw, the saddlebag is reinforced with an aluminium plate.


Magic Pie rules.
Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 06:47:20 PM by Sundsvall »
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2010, 01:27:56 AM »
Well my progress has been a little better.

I have installed the precharge circuit and I didn't spilt the pack.


I have installed my DC to DC converters.  One is set at 2.4v and run the red leds and the other is set to 4.4v and ran in series with the 2.4v converter to make 6.8v to run the 6.6v 5 watt leds I have here.  I should be able to run 10X5 watts leds if I want.  Thats 50 watts.  Closer to 25 watts as the heat sink gets a little warm.  

I have run some brake light switches off my calipers that short a series resistor to the red led light I have installed.  So when I pull o0n my brakes it overvolts the red leds by 0.4v.  And I am going to do the same for the front leds but operated on a front console that will initiate a higher intensity beam for poor lit road conditions..

Ive invented a new bike light bracket to thermal glue my stars leds onto.  I can just add them as I see fit and I will stop adding them when the heat sink I use is getting too hot.  This front light bracket also doubles for the CA bracket and a spot to put the high beam switxh for the front lights.

I am hoping by today my bike will be ready to slip the BMS into place and then all I need is my PIES



« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 12:29:06 PM by 317537 »

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Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Progress
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2010, 08:36:19 AM »
Does the leds shine brighter when you over-volt them?
I’ve never tried this even though I’d experimented with leds for awhile. Despite the fact the regen is too weak on my bike I really would like braking light when I use it.

Do you know what it means with “set the number of hall effect transitions” that is written in the instructions to the Infineon controller.
Is it the number of hall sensors?
And if, how many are those?

Longing to see your bike.

Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2010, 12:15:31 PM »
Yes they do.

Ive wrecked two of my leds bar one messing around.  One literally made the sink paste soft and slid off the heat sink just got a bit of debris on it and burnt out just before I could get it off the supply.  The other one I pulled its lens off pulling the diode off with it.  Doh!

But when ran on this heat sink with heat paste.





At 6.8v do run exceptionally brighter and only warm to the touch. They get hot and they dim, if they get dimmer this means they are being damaged.

If you aim for the right colour temperature, anything bluish is screwed.  

Well now I have a real base for my experiment to come true all I need is the thermal paste glue and the new 5 watt leds I have on order.  And I have some aluminium reflectors coming..

To make a 30 watt light it could cost me less than $40.  I want 15 watts for street use and another 10 watts for the off road use.  Im thinking of separate lights aimed higher for this.

The low beams will have 6.6v and the high beams will have 6.8v
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 02:29:02 PM by 317537 »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2010, 12:53:50 PM »
I would buy 4 of these just for the brake switch. Monkey put me on to these.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3631

Its this switch that's the selling point for me :D




See the led light can run through a 2 or 3 ohm series resistor then you just put the brake light switch over the resistor to short the resistor (not the + to -) so the led runs through the switch instead.

I though I could use the other stuff but I am running out of room in my box to put stuff.  I can make my own blinkers too but this is another project.

Because I am making each part interconnected via Anderson power poles I can make a separate box to plug in to the BMS.

The pack has Anderson poles to the BMS, the BMS connects to the main switch that switches the precharge to both DC converter and Relay-to controller terminal. The relay is connected to the BMS with blade terminals, then runs to the 25 amp thermal circuit breaker which then connects to Anderson poles to the Magic Pie.

From the Pie the negative wire will run a reverse current 30 amp diode back to the pack incase any of this circuit is opened.  We need a place for regen to return to is main power fails.

This way works and live me a long time.

I used my power hungry FRA4 relay as it ran my last bike with no problems for months and I like the contacts and general build quility inside better than the polarized latcher relays.

This bike is going to be the safe bet for the wife to ride.

I want to design my bike on the smaller pack.  Lighter frame and use the new stuff Ive got.  This is more experimental as far as I can assume.

The ecrazy controller failed on those latchers, prolly not the cause but Im not sure if they take the heat as well with the solder I blobs on them where as the  FRA4 seemed better heat tolerant.  

The 60 amp latcher have no standard connection.  I should make up a board to solder on the latching relay terminals with a pad for main power cables to go into.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 03:46:37 PM by 317537 »

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Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2010, 01:37:23 PM »
This is what I have so far.



Ive just put it together from the top of my head I should do a diagram of it.

The only thing it needs is a BMS and a toggle for the DC to DC converters as a main light switch.  The CA pre-calibrated shunt will be Anderson power pole connected before all this,.

So far this all tests good.  I have complete isolation with a single switch and no power is lost what-so-ever if the main switch is off.

The only thing that does connect to the pack when the DPDT switch is off, is the pack charger. Only about 300ma will be allowed to pass through the DPDT rocker for DC to DC precharge, controller precharge and relay contact functions.   But the 15 amp rated DPDT will pass up to 5 amps with my 5amp charger.

Ohh and the thermal breaker was advised to me about a year ago by Muzza and or Duane.  The both have said to me to use these I think..
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 01:50:02 PM by 317537 »

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Offline Bikemad

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Re: Hall effect transitions and overvolting LEDs
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2010, 02:42:28 PM »
Does the leds shine brighter when you over-volt them?

Do you know what it means with “set the number of hall effect transitions” that is written in the instructions to the Infineon controller.
Is it the number of hall sensors?
And if, how many are those?

LEDs will shine brighter when overvolted, but only up to a certain point. If they are overvolted too much, they tend to emit a rather unpleasant aroma instead of light, as the epoxy body of the LED immediately above the Cathode burns and turns black.

From what I've read regarding the number of hall effect transitions, it refers to the number of poles in the motor, which appears to be half the number of magnets.
As the Crystalyte 5303 has 24 magnets (12 poles or transitions) I would assume that the Magic Pie with 56 magnets therefore has 28 poles (transitions). Unfortunately the CA can only accept a value of 1 to 14 poles maximum, but I think you should be able to successfully use the maximum pole setting of 14, so long as you set the wheel circumference to half of what it actually is, to compensate for the CA thinking that the wheel is spinning twice as fast.

And don't forget to let us know if this works successfully. ;)

Alan
 

Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2010, 03:32:06 PM »
Yes as I have the internal controller and CA, I will only be able to use the external tachometer setup.  However CA can be connected to the internal controller maybe via the yellow wire left ove, might serve as hall transition counter.

Would it be easier to just install the external counter for my internal controller?  I think so.  

As both configurations require a constant wheel size to function and both do count RPM accurately, and the extra work pulling my pie apart for this configuration can wait until I pull my pie apart and install an external controller.  


Oh and leds if you slip and give them unregulated 12v they will flash brilliantly for a second and never work again.  I love that one, testing my led heat sinks, I have a a few old heat sinks lying around, using linear regs to test my leds overvolt ability, if you tap the led negative off the batt terminals and your adj isnt connected to the LM 317t reg.  "Poof" like two wizards in a bed.  *Shakes fist*

With linear regs, always tap the load ground from your adjust feed and make adj a permanent connection,  I keep telling myself this, doh!  
The same goes with the feedback control with switcher regulators, it cant be intermitant or else you get the full Monty (volts) straight into your circuit.

As for the 2v 18,000mc leds for my back light, they only overvolt to 0.4v and show no off colour, and because they are used for brake lights are only operated overvolted for short periods.  This means you can up the brightness just a tad for braking operations.

I also filed the tops off the red lights as the lens were too focused and blinding.  This can help a little with the thermals.

Actually my red leds are prolly 2.4v but the focal lumen spread is way tight on these so they rate them down.

Edit:

Seems we have a new friend over the summer.  An Aussie tree frog.  They come in here away frome the snakes and make themselves comfy.  The cats leave them alone as we don't care for frog cruelty from any family members. They are a great treat to see and are more than welcome campers in our home rather than their nemisis the introduced cain toads.  They get relaxed so you need to watch where you walk here in summer..



  
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 04:08:00 PM by 317537 »

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Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Progress
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2010, 08:44:37 PM »
This is what I have so far.


Ive just put it together from the top of my head I should do a diagram of it.


Like to see the diagram on that

Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Hall effect transitions and overvolting LEDs
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2010, 09:03:52 PM »

LEDs will shine brighter when overvolted, but only up to a certain point. If they are overvolted too much, they tend to emit a rather unpleasant aroma instead of light, as the epoxy body of the LED immediately above the Cathode burns and turns black.

From what I've read regarding the number of hall effect transitions, it refers to the number of poles in the motor, which appears to be half the number of magnets.
As the Crystalyte 5303 has 24 magnets (12 poles or transitions) I would assume that the Magic Pie with 56 magnets therefore has 28 poles (transitions). Unfortunately the CA can only accept a value of 1 to 14 poles maximum, but I think you should be able to successfully use the maximum pole setting of 14, so long as you set the wheel circumference to half of what it actually is, to compensate for the CA thinking that the wheel is spinning twice as fast.

And don't forget to let us know if this works successfully. ;)

Alan
 

First test: 45 km on one charge 15Ah. But I don’t know the settings on the numbers of poles yet so I’ll just have to wait and see. Will try to set this tomorrow morning before I get to work with a fully charged battery.

Impressed by your BBCode knowledge, I really like that CA thing. This forum isn’t only educating in e-bikes and English language.

Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Sundsvall

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Re: Progress
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2010, 09:21:28 PM »
Seems we have a new friend over the summer.  An Aussie tree frog.  They come in here away frome the snakes and make themselves comfy.  The cats leave them alone as we don't care for frog cruelty from any family members. They are a great treat to see and are more than welcome campers in our home rather than their nemisis the introduced cain toads.  They get relaxed so you need to watch where you walk here in summer..


  

I have GM’s frog style battery pack (wonder what gave it that name?). Your frog is so much cuter than mine. I’m a bit green-eyed on you. ;D

Peter
Midsummer sun = up 02:54   down 22:51   angle 51,0° :)
Midwinter sun =    up 09:19   down14:18   angle 4,2° :(
Mean annual temperature = 3,1°C

Offline Leslie

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Re: Progress
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2010, 10:09:43 PM »
Well that circuit worked if I hooked up nthe feed to the charge wire to the right spot.  So I failed to make it work.  It tested fine.  I guess I am sick of ordering BMS's from Ping and game to make my own.  Just hope I make this one work.

 So much more sensitive working on such circuits with the BMS in there.  Changes the way I must do things from the old SLA days.

If youre going to do this sort of circuit the BMS must be the last thing you install.

 

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