GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => eBike Mods/Legalization => Topic started by: o00scorpion00o on May 17, 2011, 06:55:55 PM
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Hi Guys, I'm back!
I am building a new project and it's rather a daunting task, there is nothing related to GM so hopefully they don't mind me posting this!
I miss my Magic Pie, and I see Pat zooming past me while I'm peddling through the strong winds on my human powered bike ;D
I am waiting on my motor and controller and batteries. I have the charger and power supply!
The motor I have decided on this time around is a much lighter geared motor that should be capable of taking 2kw at 50 volts. Being internally geared means it should be more efficient and have greater torque compared to direct drive of the same dimensions, there is also a clutch which allows the wheel to freewheel compared to the motor drag of the Magic Pie which was just too hard to pedal. I like cycling and that was a major turn off including the weight and weight of a ping 52 volt 20 amp!
Downside is there is no possibility for regen on geared motors, so hydraulic brakes are a must!
This time around my objective is boost not motorbike lol. I still want to have fun when I'm in the mood which is why I went with a high power setup! I enjoy cycling and have lost 15 kgs in the last 8 weeks without motor power, and diet change and I want to continue, so having a bike I know has shorter range will allow me to climb the steepest hills, but still make me pedal because I know I have limited electric range and still allow me to go that extra distance by pedaling and electric combined, and we get a lot of wind here, so much that it can ruin cycling enjoyment altogether!
I changed my tyres from mountain bike tyres to continental sport contact pumped to 80 psi and boy did it make a difference! I could not believe how much easier it was to cycle! they have higher 120 psi tyres but I could not get them here!
I cycled my brothers trek racing bike a few weeks ago and did over 30 miles and the bike made such a major difference, you can really go long ranges on those bikes it was amazing, but they are expensive!
The reason for choosing LiPo was mainly the fact I need LiPo to allow me the high current from a much smaller pack! And you can build a fairly cheap pack from it, and of course it's lighter.
The batteries I have chosen this time around are LiPo and I had to research a lot so I know how to use it properly. LiPo has a reputation for exploding and catching fire! ;D However newer LiPo's are far more stable and reliable but will not take abuse well, for instance, over charging or over discharging. LiPo really takes a lot of research before attempting to use it!
LiPo currently does not have a BMS to monitor the cells, instead the battery charger does all the cell balancing! To charge you have to either charge each pack separately, or connect them in parallel along with the balance wires. And you need to use cell monitors to alert you if 1 cell goes too low so you can shut off the controller while out riding!
I am getting 4x 8ah 6S zippy batteries, to give me 44 volts and 2 packs in series gives me 44 volts 8ah or connect the extra 2 if I want to go long distance, I will have 16 amps capacity or just under.
LiPo does not have the charge discharge cycles of LiFeP04, however a lot of people do not charge or discharge each cell to min or max and that can double the life from 3-500-7-800 cycles+.
2 packs @44volts 8 ah will only weigh 2.5 kgs or the 4 will give me 16 ah capacity and weigh only 5 kgs, not bad, and the geared motor should allow me 25-30 mph even @ 44 volts!
And the other good thing about LiPo is the fact you can pull very large amounts of current and charge at very high rates. You can charge some LiPo at 50 amps and more but the charging equipment will cost a lot of money.
The charger I chose is an Icharger 208B and a 15 volt 23 amp power supply. It is capable of charging at 20 amps and far greater than the 5 amp max charge of Pings batteries!
Pings batteries are good at lower C rates and I'm sure GM's too, and if you want a plug in and forget battery then these are the batteries to buy.
With LiPo you have to disconnect your batteries and arrange in parallel to charge which some might find a pain, but most guys don't care at all!
Now I am waiting for my motor kit as they are out of stock and so are the batteries because E-Bikers are starting to catch on to LiPo now and they are selling faster than they can stock them and if they run out like they have now, it can take 4 weeks to get in new stock!
Okay so that's it for now and more to follow Pics too but it could take a while before I get all the parts!
Mark
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Okay so the motor is installed and the controller is wired for programming.
Next comes batteries, someday....... :'(
The freewheeling is amazing, I took it for a 6 mile spin and it was completely different to the pie, I could save a lot of ah with this motor!
I do notice it's there, however being able to pedal so much easier is just heaven! ;D
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Okay I managed to get pat to let me borrow his ping!
This motor is amazing! 32 mph on 48 v ping!
I cycled 17.8 miles and used only 5.6 ah!
The freewheeling makes a major difference, and even with the heavy ping I managed to cycle a lot easier than with the Pie!
I changed the mountain bike tyres for Continental sport contact pumped to 90 psi, they freewheel for ages compared to normal tyres and my pedal speed is much more also!
I put 2600 watts into the Mac motor! The acceleration is amazing, the motor is amazing and it's about the same size as the brake disk!
Mark
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Looks like pat is an all round hero, is he jealous on his pityful pie ?
the freewheel experience is certainly a different one ( not on MAC yet)......
If you are old like me, you need to be careful with the high PSI tyres, hitting potholes at high PSI will hammer your wrists etc...
Be careful though, above 2000W risks stipping the gears, you put any steel in there ? 8)
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Looks like pat is an all round hero, is he jealous on his pityful pie ?
the freewheel experience is certainly a different one ( not on MAC yet)......
If you are old like me, you need to be careful with the high PSI tyres, hitting potholes at high PSI will hammer your wrists etc...
Be careful though, above 2000W risks stipping the gears, you put any steel in there ? 8)
HaHa Pat didn't get a spin on it yet! He said I could keep the battery until tomorrow, but I hope to use it up before I give it back! ;)
The tyres are rated for 80 psi, so an extra 10 hopefully shouldn't hurt!
We will see how the new improved gears take the power, they are upgraded and supposed to be stronger than the BMC gears!
It's seriously addictive!
You will be glad you got one! ;D
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Well at the moment im running both the pie, and a seriously overworked minimotor ( post to follow)......they really are chalk and cheese....
There are instances where I can see the pie winning, and instances for the geared motors....
I don't know about the improved mac gears, but the stripped gears usually appeared at above 2000W peak.....its great for a good workout
my summary
Geared motor ( for the cyclist that wants extra, long miles or higher speed, 11 tooth freewheel required for sure)
Magic pie ( lets face it, you wanted a motorbike, you have no intention of ever peddaling, altough the 3 way infineon switch is a close emulation to the above, set speed one to 18MPH, full throttle, and pedal like a madman )
Having both is a real bonus, you can choose the mood :)..day 1, pedal, day 2, fat man , day 3 pedal :)
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(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
I know all about the failing gears and the mac was no exception, though the bmc V3 seem to be holding up well, call-man seems confident enough and he claims they are stronger than bmc gears now! time will tell, lucky they are easy enough to replace! (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_lol.gif)
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aye, $25 for a spare set, and lyen can do $25 for a hardened steel, looks like you are spoilt for options......
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Ya a few options, I just wonder if cell-mans gears, being made from a different material are able to survive? time will tell!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
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Okay Guys here she is!
I got a loan of Pat's ping battery and went for a spin and OMG it's fast, 32 mph on level ground she pulls 1300 watts at max speed!
I took it to a long steep hill climb and where the pie slowed down to 17-20 mph the Mac flew at 28 mph all the way to the top and the pie would consume 2100 watts and the mac only 1800 to maintain the 28 mph!
This is a very efficient motor and the gears allow the motor to spin faster allowing it to stay in the efficient zone!
The higher voltage also helps keep it there along with the torque, the acceleration and torque is amazing, a bit like the pie only the torque stays all the way to 32 mph!
It's seriously addictive! ;D
Now I would only get half the range at 32 mph than I would with the pie @24 mph max! But you can always slow down, if you want the range or pedal and have fun the last few miles depending on the ah of your battery!
I changed my tyres to continental sport contact pumped to 90 psi, and I notice a big difference peddling, so that might have something to do with better efficiency and top speed, but it's still way faster than the pie.
It absolutely flies up hills, and they actually won't seem like hills anymore!
When I got to the top the phase wires were warm and after sitting a few mins the motor got hot, I felt in between the two cover plates. I don't know how long would take it, I think the gears would be fine but I think I could have went much further without any issues, on steeper hills I might be concerned at high amps but you can always back off on the throttle. The pie was only ever mildly warm!
very long steep hills might make it hot, but you can always keep check, on level ground and normal hills it will not be a problem at full throttle!
Now I fear My LiPo pack @44 volts might knock a few mph off the top compared to the 52 volt ping! But it will still be plenty fast!
Pat took it out for a spin and you should have seen the smile on his face! Now he wants one too! ;D
I would say at 60 volts it would easily do 35-37 mph, however I think 30-32 is plenty fast on a bicycle!
It really is amazing the power from such a small motor!
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It's looking very smart Mark, but I find it hard to believe it's 40% faster up that hill than the Pie, and while using 14% less power too.
If it had some form of lock up device on the freewheel, controlled by torque on the brake disc, then you could use regen as well.
How does the noise level of the Mac under load compare to the Pie?
Alan
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I would love to go to an ebike meeting and try out different set ups. I went for a direct dive motor because of the reliability of the nylon gears. But the geared motor sounds a lot better for lightness and stealth. Can you give some more pro's and con's information between the pie and the mac?
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Hi MArk
What spoke length do you have on that wheel, from tip to inside of elbow ?, and is the rim a standard 559*19 ERD Wheel ?
Might save me some time with my ruler :)
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I would love to go to an ebike meeting and try out different set ups. I went for a direct dive motor because of the reliability of the nylon gears. But the geared motor sounds a lot better for lightness and stealth. Can you give some more pro's and con's information between the pie and the mac?
Hi gf3,
Well the direct drive will take a lot of power, if it's the Pie you are talking about? and you don't have to worry about heat nearly as much as the geared motor.
The direct drive will not be as efficient or as fast or have the same torque as the geared motor. The geared motor has more torque and usually all the way to the top!
You will have to put more voltage and current into the direct drive meaning a bigger battery, but again you usually don't have to worry so much about heat because the Pie doesn't really get hot, it's a big motor and can dissipate the heat much better!
The geared motor will freewheel meaning no cogging when peddling, and it makes a hell of a difference!
The direct drive motor will allow regen for the extra braking, geared motors can't regen because of the freewheeling! You really need hydraulic disk brakes when going above 20 mph for safety if you don't have strong regen!
Regen doesn't really put much back in the battery unless you are going down a steep hill for 5+ miles, it's really only useful for braking!
Really some people prefer the Direct drive for stealth, though the pie isn't quiet especially under a heavy load going up a hill, the geared motor I have is not quiet but it doesn't bother me at all, I thought it would have been louder!
You got to take the two for a spin, but usually someone going from direct drive are amazed when they get a spin on a geared motor setup!
I know Pat wants one now, and that's after only a 2 mile ride! ;D
Mark
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Hi MArk
What spoke length do you have on that wheel, from tip to inside of elbow ?, and is the rim a standard 559*19 ERD Wheel ?
Might save me some time with my ruler :)
Hi Ginge PM sent, cause I'm not sure the info will be accurate! ::)
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It's looking very smart Mark, but I find it hard to believe it's 40% faster up that hill than the Pie, and while using 14% less power too.
If it had some form of lock up device on the freewheel, controlled by torque on the brake disc, then you could use regen as well.
How does the noise level of the Mac under load compare to the Pie?
Alan
Hi Alan,
I'm not sure I would have believed it either until I tried it out myself! ;D
Ginge will have his setup soon so he can vouch for me, that's of course he actually gets off the bike he will be having so much fun!
That sounds a good idea for the regen, but I think the hydraulic brakes are plenty, but those that don't have them would seriously need hydraulic brakes going much above 20 mph, it's not until some fool pulls out in front of you that you realise how long it takes you to stop with the older style brakes!
Regarding the noise, well it's noisier at certain speeds or how light you press the throttle, at full speed I don't notice it at all, and the wind noise at 32 mph would drown out any noise!
Compared to the pie, well, the pie isn't quiet either and can be noisy at load on a steep hill especially where it starts to bog down a bit.
The pie is a fantastic motor, but it would need more power to compete with the mac without doubt,
Now you could increase the voltage to say 60-72 volts and it would really fly up those hills which is what I would do rather than dump more current in which would heat things up more, but really you could dump 60 amps in to the pie an I wouldn't worry about over heating it, but you are talking LiPo at that stage without doubt, or a very expensive A123 LiFeP04!
Everyone knows that motors are more efficient at higher speeds and that's why the mac is so much more efficient up those hills, it doesn't get bogged down, maybe at 36 volts it wouldn't spin as fast and consume more current because it might not be in the efficiency zone as much, that's something I don't really know but that's the impression I get from testing out the two!
But there is absolutely no escaping the fact that you need to pump a lot more power into the pie to get the same speed up those hills!
17-20 mph @2100 watts for the pie, 1800 watts 27-28 mph for the mac both on the same 48 or really 52 volt ping!
The controller is stronger on the mac, however it consumes less on the hills at 28 mph so that isn't the reason for it being faster or more efficient!
Alan maybe you and Ginge could meet up and he could let you test his mac? ;D
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Mark are you going to integrate something into this build Monkey style??
If you don't I will be terribly upset. Haha
How about some LLLLLLLong LLLLLLLLIPOS inside the frame and along the top of the dropouts hmm?
At least Dual MAC that MAC attack you have there, okay there is your bikes nickname right there. MAC ATTACK
Here I even found a suitable decal for you, no charge :D
(http://asset-server2.libsyn.com/show/k-fc60e251de1b264b/assets/itunes_badge_copy_1.jpg)
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Mark are you going to integrate something into this build Monkey style??
If you don't I will be terribly upset. Haha
How about some LLLLLLLong LLLLLLLLIPOS inside the frame and along the top of the dropouts hmm?
At least Dual MAC that MAC attack you have there, okay there is your bikes nickname right there. MAC ATTACK
Here I even found a suitable decal for you, no charge :D
(http://asset-server2.libsyn.com/show/k-fc60e251de1b264b/assets/itunes_badge_copy_1.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
You are a funny guy monkey! lol
Great graphics It's cool, that would look nice on the bike! ;D
Yeah that's a good idea, though I couldn't find any 8ah 6s long lipo! But for me I don't have the space to make up all the things some of you guys do or the tools, and I'm not so good at making up stuff lol, and my girlfriend is just happy that the bike is outside now and not in bits on the kitchen table LOL, If she knew how much I spent on everything :o she does ask though and she laughs when I tell her cause she knows I'm telling little white lies! (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
It would be cool though if someone starting making battery enclosures for bike frames, though I'll be happy with 2.5 kgs of lipo or 16ah 5kg, it won't be as bad as a 10 kg ping!
Cell-man makes them using A123 batteries, but it's expensive for 11.5 ah 51 volts, but he makes them himself and it takes a lot of time!
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Hey mate keep your eyes peeled for a road sign or some other big flat piece of metal on the side of the road or lying around, I made a battery mount for a split GM pack that was solid as!!! It took me next to nothing to knock it up and I am no blacksmith haha
Even though I ended up rebuilding it all back in the GM casing, thinking back I think it gave me the confidence to make stuff up for the rest of the build. I'll warn you it's addictive!~@!!
Just don't make the mistake I did and have a good think about what you want, because if you ever consider changing it, the thought will EAT you alive like it did me and you will change it muhahhahahaaaa
my learning experience ;)
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Yeah that's cool monkey,
Ah I like to keep things as simple as possible and I lack the space to work, pity that, maybe I'll get rich someday move to a bigger place with a big garden and build myself a nice big shed and let my girlfriend keep the house!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
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I have a pretty good inkering my bike is the reason I've been single for ages LOLLL
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
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I have a pretty good inkering my bike is the reason I've been single for ages LOLLL
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
You little (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif) stole my smiley's
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Smilies_Angry_RantBig.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_lol.gif)
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well my mac has arrived, not sourced from the same place as mark though....looks nice neat and simple....motor is a 12 wind, so I guess im gonna drop some top end speed for lower end torque......got a steel wheel as well to fit, and of course have dissasemled to have a looksie for some alphawire love.......i think the stock cable can lose upto 200 watts at higher amps ( same wire loom as the gm externals)....
So I guess ill do my ranting style post soon.....Pie versus Mini@500W versus Mac :)
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Hey Ginge,
If you have a lower wind than me, probably means it will pull higher amps at lower speeds. maybe you should replace the phase wire alright with the alphawire eco wire!
I didn't have problems withe the phase wires, but I think if you run above 2kw that it will be the motor you will find heats a lot more than the phase wires!
You didn't get it from the same place as me, so you don't have the upgraded gears then?
And the steel gears are said to do more harm to the motor at very high power use, here is the link to the thread
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15439&hilit=mac+gears+gears
Mark really abused the mac and I don't think he used the new gears cell_man now sells with his mac's!
Anyway good luck with wheel build can't wait to hear how your first test drive goes!
Mark
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hey :)
it is later stock for sure, the side panels are 1 piece as opposed to 2, still ive applied for an order from cell_man too, but you know how speedy he is :).....interesting to see the difference for sure...
i think a 10T would have been the right balance, you might wanna check you don't have a 6T, as this might be the reason for the heat
" In fact the speed possible on 48V in a 26" rim with a 6T motor results in power levels above the reliable continuous power levels on these motors."....emmisions-free.com
so I think 8 or 10 would be good.....still if I don't like it, I can always wind less ;), thats what playtime is for....
still for straights and speeds under 25, a slower wind might work better, guess we are going to find out soon ......
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correction my man, looks like you running 8 turns :)
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Yep 8T 320 rpm!
I think this motor pulling me @200 lbs and the bike and a 10 kg ping @28 mph @1800 watts up a steep hill is quiet remarkable, and I think the 8T is the perfect balance between speed and torque for most people.
Those who just want to pull trailers or very heavy panniers might want to install the 3 way switch or get someone to do it to limit the power to maybe 1000 watts if climbing hills and they can pedal along also.
For me It's everything I have wanted, small, light and I can pedal or use power when I'm tired and have fun at the same time!
Even cell_man says the motor has limits and doesn't recommend using it over 2kw, though he is running much more, and has not had problems with the new gears. But he does think that over 2kw might be too much! This is from his website,
Expect approximately 39kph, 24mph on 36V 12S LiFePO4, 48kph, 30mph on 48V 16S LiFePO4, 58kph, 36mph (not recommended for continuous usage at these power levels) on 60V, 20S LiFePO4 with an 8T 500W Mac fitted into a 26" wheel. There are also a slower wound versions, 12T 200rpm and 10T 255rpm loaded at 36V motors which will offer reduced speed for a given voltage with the potential for higher torque. Kits are also available with 700C, 20" and 24" as required
I believe he is talking about 60 volts not 48 as being not recommended for continuous usage! But really at 52 volts 2kw it's crazy powerful!
And on level ground it only uses 1300 watts @32 mph!
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yea mark, my shlongs bigger than yours,, lol.....:) lol he he he he
well, ill get that mutha spoked up....lets see the difference in the turns.....in fact its great, as I ve been wanting to learn how to phase wire, and to be honest, these motors have room for a lot more copper, a much higher gauge can be added......so I can really experiment with turns etc, find the sweet spot...
Please though, bear in mind, this motor is for me to test my "calorie burn" bike, where I actually want to cycle.....at appproaching 3000 miles, the true choice for me is the DD hub, AKA Magic Pie....low maintenance, low heat.......
but once or twice a week, its nice to remember that you can actually use your feet..
Scorpion, I respect your choice, at shorter mileage, ( having flogged the crap out of a minimotor), geared is truly much better "feel", but at 250 mph per week, not sure yet .......gears to worry aout, heat etc...
Different stokes for differerent folks
i love the feel of a freewheel, but 1.5 hours either way per day......
reults to follow :)
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yea mark, my shlongs bigger than yours,, lol.....:) lol he he he he
well, ill get that mutha spoked up....lets see the difference in the turns.....in fact its great, as I ve been wanting to learn how to phase wire, and to be honest, these motors have room for a lot more copper, a much higher gauge can be added......so I can really experiment with turns etc, find the sweet spot...
Please though, bear in mind, this motor is for me to test my "calorie burn" bike, where I actually want to cycle.....at appproaching 3000 miles, the true choice for me is the DD hub, AKA Magic Pie....low maintenance, low heat.......
but once or twice a week, its nice to remember that you can actually use your feet..
Scorpion, I respect your choice, at shorter mileage, ( having flogged the crap out of a minimotor), geared is truly much better "feel", but at 250 mph per week, not sure yet .......gears to worry aout, heat etc...
Different stokes for differerent folks
i love the feel of a freewheel, but 1.5 hours either way per day......
reults to follow :)
Your shlong is bigger than mine??? (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_youwish.gif)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
Yes it will be interesting how you find the two motors!
I guess you mean 250 miles not 250 mph per week? lol
But yes a lot of people don't have faith in the geared motors for long term use, but they are getting better and time will tell how the mac lasts with the new gears!
I bet this mac of mine will last a long time if I don't abuse it, and I don't go off road on rough trails which is a no no with geared motors seemingly!
I pedal to about 10 mph before I hit the throttle, if I need to that is and I do that mainly because I want to exercise and use it for hills but If I hit the throttle too hard from 0 it will throw me and that happened me once with the pie @80 amps and I don't want it to happen again. It's embarrassing in front of a crowd of teenagers! ;D
At the end of the day if you want a motorbike style of E-bike and have no interest in pedaling, or you fear over heating or breaking gears and go off road, then go direct drive. If you want to pedal or enjoy cycling then geared is an absolute must, and it's more efficient, and the power is amazing!
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Hey Ginge did you build your wheel yet?
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Yeah Gingey c'mon man it's been like.... since..... yesterday?? Haha Mark and his high expectations!!
I actually have no clue how long it takes to build a wheel up... I'm guessing an hour or so providing you have the spokes prepared?? How long, and without honeywine if you answer Ginge haha :D
Monkey timeeeeee yeah
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sAni_monkey3.gif)
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Hey stop stealing my smileys! ;D
Hey guys I can't believe the cold today for the 7th June, I don't want to go out on my bike and there is some heavy downpours around too. Frost forecast for nights this week, I've never seen frost in June!!!
WTF is going on? This is weird, we had the coldest winter on record the last 2 winters, and this is summer. I want heat!
And yeah Ginge hurry up! ;D
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Okay I'll hold back on the Monkey time ;)
But I'm in total agreeance with you!@@!@ But I'm on the other side of the world, and winter LOL - even still there was forcast for snow in Melbourne last night. Didn't happen but it's cold enough, if it did it would have been the first time in my life its snowed in the suburbs here in my life!!!
I have come to a conclusion, that working on bits on the bike so much in my cold shed has given me a huge coldness tolerance. I used to be 3 pairs of pants, and numerous layers (as if I was going to the snow!!) but now I'm down to 1 pair of pants, 1 tshirt and jacket and I'm feelin only a little brisk!!!
I would say to you have a big cup of cement and harden the F#$^ up@!!!! hehe jks ;)
Currently 5deg celcius right now haha thats crazy
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10 deg C here, not fair. I want at least 25!
Something funny sure is going on with the climate that's for sure! I hate to see what this winter will have in store for us!
AH maybe I should go out and pedal I have no batteries yet, so that would warm me up!
It's crazy my batteries are still out of stock!
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OK Cheeky Chimp, it's time for a new title, "Gadget Man" it is.
(http://www.gadgetman.com.au/images/common/gadgetman.jpg)
Now you have your own cape, just like Gary. ;D
10 deg C here, not fair. I want at least 25!
Mark, I'm sure you'll feel much warmer knowing it's currently 25° in my little "office", and 16° in the garage. ;D
Alan
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HAHA nice one Alan,
I like the super gm man, is that gadget man or Golden Motor man? ;D
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Pity we already know Garys' surname is Salo... Lol I wish it was M something haha then he could have a change of costume. But nooo that gadget man name is ghey Alan I don't want that! I certainly need to update my profile pic from that old thang but I prefer cheeky chimp there haha that way people won't take offense to my daft sense of humor ;)
Ohh and I just hit back to check and yup super speedy Alan has already changed it !!!! haha change it back lol
All of us have pics pasted over the net being such famous people we are - see Alan I even found this oldschool one of you!
:D
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5HoIyhdIAfeCIc6S-TS77ovmwgHG7aWTlBprasGMG8tJHfRBy&t=1)
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Hey cool who gave me the scorpion???
Nice 1 ;D
Mac Man?
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_lol.gif)
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Hey cool who gave me the scorpion???
Mac Man?
They both seemed to be appropriate for you, Smiley Man or Emoticon Man just didn't sound right. (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_wink_230608.GIF)
Alan
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Hey cool who gave me the scorpion???
Mac Man?
They both seemed to be appropriate for you, Smiley Man or Emoticon Man just didn't sound right. (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_wink_230608.GIF)
Alan
Yeah I agree Emotion man sounds like I'm insane or something! (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
Thanks Alan!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_thankyou.gif)
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Well got my 12 turn spoked up, and went for a run, at the end of a very long building bathroom day
Still havent reset my controller from the GM Mini, so running abot 500 Cont, 750 peak watts
26 MPH......
Further tests in the morning :), not after 2 cans of bud ;)
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Nice one dinge,
Can't wait for more test reports. Don't drink and ride though! hehehe
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dinge ? .......honey wine ???
I find it takes about 30 minutes to spoke the rim, and about 1-1.5 hours to true the rim, taking time, drinking, adjusting, drinking drinking, adjusting, dwingkin, awdjustin, dweekin, adhusteen.....blkinkeen, mujahadeen.........looks fekin straight to me.......lers go ;)
right then, controller, powered up to 20 amps cont, 50 amps phase, and some issues developed ( however this is a 6 fet mini thing) , however I have heard of this problem on the mac, where phase versus cont current @x2.5 can cause this.....
However the stuttering clearly caused some over phase issues, as the little plastic covers on my phase connections melted :), yay now thats what im talking about ...melted plastic.....easy rider ;D ;D :P :P :-*
so with no pedal ~( and as usual, im abusing the ~$£" out of it........)
no pedal ....28 MPH on the level
pedal.......30 MPH on the level
So if I instigate the 120% setting, im in to 34MPH....( on the slow wind mind you, fast wind is on its way from china
did some acceleration from 0...the motor is well able to handle it....but the noise.....its a different beast
I think if you want to comparet the noise with the pie......think cat purring to dentist drill....both hum, but.....
Saying that, its not that bad, ....just not a pretty noise, not elegant like a DD motor, but its light, will power up hills, willl freewheel
Ill do a massive comparison thread soon
however this mutha needs composite gears ( I have one steel too), and some alphawire love
Ill continue on a new post, comparing all three motors :)
Mark, got cellman to answer eventually,, spare composite gearset coming also, 8T wind :)
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I have a serious recommendation you guys and your primo testing should try a small wheel diameter.
If I had ground clearance with my frame I would have dual 16'd my bike but went 20" to be practical instead. I've never, and won't go back from smaller wheels!!!
I can pedal my dual drive without any assistance for great distances, uphill I do admit its a bit of a challenge but it isn't that bad. I can't do that on the 24" ebike I have.
Just wish I lived in NZ so I could make an uphill video of this baby
(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200804/r240985_977140.jpg)
I have however, sourced some very decent local hills I'll be hitting up once this thing is finally finished :D
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funilly enough, I have been given a small BMX frame, ( but a pro one, with embedded tubes, if that makes sense)...just waiting for money, my spoke cutting tools, etc etc....
What, monkey, is the advantage of the smaller wheel racer In your opinion ( apart from BMX handlebars :) )
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What, monkey, is the advantage of the smaller wheel racer In your opinion ( apart from BMX handlebars :) )
Man I hope you make that thing number 4 ebike in your garage ;) It's a little hard to explain in writing, you seriously just have to try a smaller wheel if you have alot of hills in your area.
I'll give you some dot point breakdowns of what I think they are good for.
1. Hills - I challenge anyone with dual drive/whatever with larger diameter wheels uphill. Find me lol
Also - complete dead start on hills is no worries.
2. Stealth. Riding a smaller bike people just think I'm riding a BMX (or a big one in my case) people see BMX's going fast all the time usually with kids without helmets. I've never been stopped by police on this bike.
3. Control. Using a smaller frame you can pop wheelies over gutters easy, jump with control and the sheer agility of the smaller wheel moving around is far easier than with a 24-26-28" MTB
4. Stopping power - 20" wheels using regen really stop fast!! At top speed (need to test this) but I would expect as little as a few metres before I'm completely stopped using front disc brake and regen only.
5. Pedalling!!! You can do it these smaller wheels, you will pedal far faster uphill using direct drive and small wheel size than any larger wheel diameter ebike. Sure its no freewheel experience, I'll post this video I found of me pedalling dual drive so you can understand a bit better. It's like pedalling a high gear BMX (a bit hard to start, but feels okay once you are going)
So I can only really fault them with the top speed, and some difficulties depending on the bike frame you have. The one you have Ginge, sounds like a 24" BMX frame (the larger, pro type - still have 20" wheels) and these are quite comfortable to ride as an adult.
The handlebars (BMX Type) do make a serious difference to the ride, as being an ebike - the rider does not have a forward riding position (unless you are pedalling like mad), usually you are sitting on like a seat so the seating position for a rider on the BMX handlebars feels so much better on an ebike.
Should this topic not be surrounding ebike use, then it would be a COMPLETE different story with many benefits of larger diameter wheels (using gearing etc.)
If you want something that eats hills, fast acceleration and easy to manoeuvre then go for smaller wheels. If you can fit 16" wheels without too much difficulty on that frame you have, and are happy with about 30-35kmh top speed - then I would go for that!
If I managed to make the 16" work on the frames I had on hand then I would have stuck with it. I only went to 20" for ground clearance and frame size issues. The 16" when I had it running was VERY easy to pedal!!! Thinking back, I don't think I worried too much about the drag.
But yeah, long story short you gotta try it if you have hills, perhaps want to pedal a little, and don't mind about the top speed then I wouldn't look further.
Oh and tyres!!!! Seriously big range and with the GM cast rims you can opt for motorcycle tyres or scooter racing tyres like I did. Nearly forgot to mention tyres LOL they are tops
So 2 downsides...
1. Customising the bike to suit rider and accomodate wheel size
2. Top speed
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Hi Ginge,
Glad you got it together, I think you should put the 40 amp infineon on that motor, I think you need more phase current, some controllers heat the crap out of the phase wires!
You should get the program cable and a 12 fet infineon cell-man sells, my phase wires barely get warm on the straight and fairly warm on long steep hills @ 1800 watts!
What voltage are you running by the way? 28 mph is good on level ground with the slower wind!
Monkey,
Yeah I would like to build a bike with 2 macs in a 16" wheel, but someday maybe!
The mac 320 rpm though you have to ride it someday to get the experience, the torque is amazing and the acceleration, beats the pie any day! ;D
I can't believe you think 2 pies is easy enough pedal, you must be drinking super Monkey juice! ;D
I could hardly pedal 1 pie!
I would still love a spin on your dual pies though, that's going to be a super ride when you are finished.
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Yo Mark, I have a 24" 1000W 60v ebike that has a motor similar/same size as MP [bit smaller] and its a bitch to pedal on its own. Turning the smaller wheel was easy, but I don't think I would have been going much faster than around 15-20kmh at max so its not exactly brisk! I would imagine a 26"+ wheel would not be fun to pedal at all with a MP
Seemed pointless pedalling a motor on its own though. I use cruise at a minimum pedal level and match that just to get a bit of exercise.... Thats rare though haha its usually WOT and a sore thumb at the end of the ride. That reminds me, I epoxied a silicon rubber pad on my thumb throttle so its more comfortable now lol
It's a long weekend here in Australia and mine has been a messy one haha so not much time spent on the bike I'll get on to it tomorrow. HANGING to get it back on the road and finished, I need to hire some casual staff to help solder and prepare wires etc lol
Hey can you guys tell me if the shaft is customizable on the MAC motors??
I'm trying to find more info and prices on this mob
http://www.magnomatics.com/technology/pseudo-direct-drive.aspx (http://www.magnomatics.com/technology/pseudo-direct-drive.aspx)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAELukfr2oY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAELukfr2oY)
They certainly have some interesting products...I'm guessing they aren't cheap though
Hey Ginge what price did you pay in USD for your metal gear MAC to UK if you don't mind me asking?
MM
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Coming from cell man, I guess you are about $165 plus delivery , motor only no wheel, plus spare gears... ( spare set is $25, or a single metal gear is $25
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Coming from cell man, I guess you are about $165 plus delivery , motor only no wheel, plus spare gears... ( spare set is $25, or a single metal gear is $25
Cool thanks mate. Hey do you know if you can customise the shaft?
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not sure, but I do know that shaft and keylog are quite loose in the general design, should be easy to fabricate a newer one...
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hey mark....fired up my 40A........melted too much plastic on the 6 fet
smooth as butter....alll ready and tuned up for the commute tomorrow :0....i am running old gears though, still I got a brand new set coming from cell_man with the motor, so I may use this motor and gears to test out the steel one before the change :)
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Hi Guys,
Monkey I get what you are saying, but for Me I want a bicycle to be as much like a bicycle as possible, I like to put in the effort! And the Pies are fine for commuter bikes or for those not bothered!
You should try out the geared mac some day, it will put a smile on your face! ;D
Ginge, did you say 40 amps on the little 6fet infineon? did you mod it?
What about your infineon you were using on the pie?
I got my LiPo today, Did I say I cancelled the order from Hobby King?
I ordered from Storm RC on E-bay form matt in the U.K on Friday, so that was very quick!
There is a contact for you Ginge if you are looking for LiPo!
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aye, 25 amp cont that little monster can do, gets hot though...no modding
Got the pie infineon on there today, 1880 Watts peak....25 miles, top speed 29.6, warm but nothot...same efficiency per mile as the pie, but average speed was about 2 MPH faster, at about 24...
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I'm just thinking Ginge that your infineon might not be set to the same settings as mine form cell-man!
So it will be interesting to see how yours drives the 8T!
You have the program cable don't you?
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yup, got the programming cable
set the 40A to
25A cont
65A peak
got stats on the way home, 8AH for 26 mile journey ( but I did actually cycle a lot, so not fair really )
top speed 28MPH ( wasnt gunning it)
One thing for sure, those phase wires need the alphawire luvin :).....although I hear that terminating just outside the hub with alphawire can reap massive improvement, but you know me ;)
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Ginge, I can' understand how your phase wires are heating up so much? Is it the E-bikes.ca controller cause some people report problems with them driving geared motors!
My phase wires on the 320 rpm got very warm on a long steep climb but not roasting at all, you see that's why I'm thinking that that motor is better overall for hill climbing because it spins faster and motors are more efficient at faster rpm where the slow wind doesn't allow it to get into the efficiency zone.
And my controller according to the screen shot cell-man sent me is set at 45 amp battery and 110 amp phase!
It will be interesting to see your results with the faster motor! , by the way what voltage and battery setup are you using again?
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aye, hold fire on the winding :), the new motor arrived today (black by the way, compared with the silver you and I both have), as well as my spare set of composite...
Comparing the windings, it appears that there may be 2 phases wrapped around each stator on the 8T, meaning im not sure what winding my original silver motor is...winding is 12 count, meaning could be either 12 or 6...but silver motor defo has the original nylon gears, however the black is confirmed with the grey compound gears..
Ive asked supplier for confirmation on what winding it is supposed to be, but as the 12T is supposed to hit 25MPH only on 48, hitting 30+ don't make sense :)
Now that I have the spare gears, I may fit the hardened steel gears, and re-wire for alphawire and see where I get too...
As for the wiring, both motors have wiring that is more suited to the up to 1000W range...as per the external wiring on the GM controllers, but they cannot efficiently carry 2000W plus current in to the hub, so mod is required :)
not sure what looks stealthier, black or grey :), but checked today, can switch the stator out in about 10 mins, but ill wait till the weekend for that :)
running 13S 8P 188650 2.6A cells...
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Ginge, didn't you get the 40 amp infinion from ebikes.ca?
I wonder if cell-man's controller would work better for you?
Seriously my phase wires don't heat that much, maybe it will be different with the new stator.
Black or silver doesn't really matter to me, I like them both!
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Hi Mark
no they don't heat up that much....but if they are heating at all, then they are not able for the load ....that heat is watts turning to heat due to resistance......if the phase wire is able to take the load, should be cold :)
Compared to the 6 fet problems I had, the 12 Fet from lyen is acting like a dream...only set to 30A cont 70 Peak...no more need for any more power :), and the grey is on nylon, don't want to kill em just yet..
45 and 120...yikes, thats fek it up land if you hit a pot hole in the wet and slip on the throttle :)
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Ah yes you got it from lyen, I was too lazy to go back and read through all the posts! ;D
Cell-man is confident the new gears will hold up!
Try 45 battery and 110 phase with the 320 rpm stator and see how she goes! If it works for me it should work for you, It's lots of fun on 52 volts!
I didn't bother rewiring my motor, I still have plenty of the ecowire though, so if it does give me problems I'll change it then, but I wouldn't bother until I had to! :)
I lost 4-5 mph with the 12S LiPo , but at 28-29 mph it's plenty fast!
Go on Ginge turn up the power!
Go on go on go on go on go on go on go on GO ON! MUHAHAHAH ;D AH Go on ted! ;D
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fek A$"% Fek...womens kn%"£%$"
At the weekend ill unleash the steel geary....then ill go hell on it....;)
exploits to follow...45/120...thats 2KW cont..6KW Peak ...
Fekin nutter ;)
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fek A$"% Fek...womens kn%"£%$"
At the weekend ill unleash the steel geary....then ill go hell on it....;)
exploits to follow...45/120...thats 2KW cont..6KW Peak ...
Fekin nutter ;)
MUhahahaha
You know you want to! :)
Seriously the gears will take it! So just use the grey gears, In fact the steel gears have been known to damage other parts of the motor that I can't name because I don't know what they are, sun gear rings a bell?
I asked Cell-man to give me the controller programmed for the max power he thinks the controller can handle, and he did advise not to go higher.
I do miss the extra poke and top speed of 52 volts compared to 44, I can always add an extra 2S, but it's a pain in the ass to charge, where 12S is easy to parallel charge, I miss the simplicity of charging a ping!
Actually I am waiting for my 3 speed switch, I have all the wiring done for the programming cable and switch. I will use the 110% speed setting and that might actually allow me to do 30-32 mph again, if it does that's grand then, I'll be more than happy. Really I pedal a lot so It's not a major deal.
I did 14 miles today and used 3.2 ah from the 5ah battery, not bad, I could have done better but it was windy as hell, damn that wind, it never goes away!
When I get my extra 2 Zippy's it will still be really light, It's amazing the difference not having a huge ping in the back!
Some day I hope they make a cheap reliable LiPo bms that can take a high current charge. One that's easy to set up for us E-Bikers!
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hey guys,
I was naughty and thinking of adding another 3-4s for 55 volts hehe, that would get me about 35 mph on the mac!
Or I could add another 4S for a total of 16S and 66 volts! ;D Id be at nearly 40 mph then LOL!
That's the cool think about LiPo, you can configure it the way you want!
Did I mention Lipo ? ;D
Ginge,
have you swapped the stator yet?
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nah, plans to do it tonight, but I got front forks and disc brakes to put on as welll...i guess stopping is more important , before the stator :)
will let you know :)
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Na Ginge,
Stator first, then see if you need to upgrade brakes! hehehe
;D
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forks on, brakes fitted..its this damn bathroom....since when did the UK get an irish summer....18 Degrees all summer....its not right I tell thee...my plaster and cement just wont dry...oh well , time for a pint of honey wine.....
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Ha 18 Degrees ? that's not fair, try 14-16 here max!
We got a fire going tonight, seriously I remember warmer winters, no lie, I don't know what's going on Ginge mate, but I hate to see this winter!
To hell with the bathroom sit down and have a few beers, I'm having a few glasses of Jacobs creek, lovely it is too, one of my favourites.
Sure like winter only it's bright at 10.30 pm? wtf? ???
Plenty of time tomorrow Ginge for a stator swap, I got 2x 4S 5ah on order from HK. Muhahahahah 58 volts, that's nearly 40 mph. Oh yeah! ;D
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You guys better be talking fahrenheit there....
Otherwise both of you need to have a big cup of cement
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Hi Monkey lol,
No Fahrenheit here mate, only Celsius.
Please tell me it's colder where you are and I'll be happy!
Currently it's 12 degrees Celsius here today! Bear in mind it's supposed to be summer here! :'(
Is that space cycle nearly finished? ;D
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ah, dang,....today 2 walls plastered and that's it...just finished now for a beer....fingers crossed for tomorrow,
The rock shox dart 3 is sweet on this little frame, smooth 2, with lockout :).....60 squids at chainreactioncycles.com ( disk only )
Avid BB7 with G2 clean sweep rotor
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Nice one Ginge,
I need to replace my headset and my shock seals are leaking just a little, but i'm all out of cash now and I don't have the tools to replace the headset, but it needs doing! I may take it to the local shop just to replace the headset and replace the shocks next summer!
The weather is still crap and I don't fancy being out at all in wet gear sweating like crazy peddling in wet gear! :'(
The stock shocks on the Halfords carrera kraken are not great, and they have not been abused at all, but I will invest in better ones next year!
Or actually I'm finished spending money on the electric part of the bike, so I might look out for a 2nd hand better quality bike, and keep the old one for maybe a future electric conversion!
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yup smooth shocks make a great difference ...I usually wait for sales and buy...my "60 forks usually sell for about 180,......
youtube headset replacement, it can be done with wood and a screwdriver..if your a pikey like myself
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Hi everyone
Okay I am running another 4S of LiPo for a total of 16S that's about 66 volts off the charger ;D
Absolute max speed on level ground is 41 mph! Muhahahaha
She flies up decent hills at 30 + mph!
It's not something I intend to do much, but it's nice to open her up on the mile or 2 of decent quality road before I turn off on the bad roads again!
I would really love to convert an old cruiser motorbike, maybe someday!
Pics Coming soon
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well I concur my marky.....
mac did a 200Ft climb over .5 mile at 20 mph, no peddaling, at 30 amps, compound gears were fine...phase wires fine, battery may need a little bit of cell replacement love
second mac has been upgraded to 12G alphawire :), who you gonna call...mac busters :)
yes its 80's but the gingery hit the homebrew red wine........asherbbb
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Hi Ginge,
She's a beast isn't she hehe!
I love this motor and I don't need anything else, the only thing about direct drive is the fact they can handle more power, however, the geared motor is more efficient and uses less power to do the same work!
Time will tell if the gears survive but most people won't touch geared hubs because of the gears, the only good thing about DD motors for me is the fact they can survive off roading, and regen!
Enjoy the homebrew! ;D
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Here she is ;D
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154801.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154229.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154249.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154456.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154518.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-06-03135424.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154359.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154325.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154345.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Lecky/2011-07-02154325.jpg)