GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => eBike Mods/Legalization => Topic started by: urosv on November 18, 2010, 09:12:10 AM
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Hi electric mates !
Is there anyone that can exactly point out the directives papers, links, law or other information regarding limitation of power on electric motors. What law exactly prohibites and what allows ? I was doing a research on some of EU countryes and found interesting translating of the problem. Some countryes in EU does not have any problem having more that 250W, the homologation does even not concern bicycles. Even police does not have any information that more that 250W is a problem. Since you can pedale more than 25kmh there is no problem regarding speed also ?
Any comments and pointers will be apriciated ? Sorry for my poor english mates ::)
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Hi Urosv! I would just like to add that I like your battery profile picture, that also looks like a beer!
:D
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Although Norway are outside EU, we adapt most of the traffic directives that the EU thinks up (unfortunately)... And so we have regarding el-assisted bikes; the rules are here as follows:
The motor can supply power up to max 25km/h
The motor can be max 250W
The motor must be pedal-activated; no pedaling, no motor power.
I have no links for you to these rules, but this should be valid for the whole EU...
I heard from one of the local police here, and he said that they have been informed of this, and they would enforce the law :(
That said, I got a 750W motor with no pedlec... ;D
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I know a guy who asked the cops about the legaility of his bike and they told him they didnt know much about it.
Then they harrassed him all over the joint as he alerted them to his new vehicle. Its a bit like that with the police. Last time I went to the police station to report a stolen bike they rudly ordered me up for my details and ignored the description I was trying to communicate to them.
The bike was an expensive Giant bike that belonged to my elsest son, and his Grand Parents bought it for him.
One might understand my hate for theives and my growing disrespect for the police.
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Dunno about the thieves... I personally hate anyone who steals or damages someones gear.
A couple of months ago, some kids pushed a bin full of garden waste dirt and junk over out the front of my house.
I saw them and chased them on the fastest transport I could find, a BMX haha
Anyway when I caught upto them they were like 16, and I remembered being a little Monkey then too... So instead of hurting them I just yelled and threatened them as they ran, but kept my distance. Lol I kept chasing them slowly until 1 by 1 they gave up puffing and cried LOL
That will teach them for starting smoking so early ;)
I like the old school cops. All these new hero's trying their best to make a name for themselves on the targets board.... It's all revenue for them
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Dunno about the thieves... I personally hate anyone who steals or damages someones gear.
A couple of months ago, some kids pushed a bin full of garden waste dirt and junk over out the front of my house.
I saw them and chased them on the fastest transport I could find, a BMX haha
Anyway when I caught upto them they were like 16, and I remembered being a little Monkey then too... So instead of hurting them I just yelled and threatened them as they ran, but kept my distance. Lol I kept chasing them slowly until 1 by 1 they gave up puffing and cried LOL
That will teach them for starting smoking so early ;)
I like the old school cops. All these new hero's trying their best to make a name for themselves on the targets board.... It's all revenue for them
Monkey??? ::)
That was some lame way of dealing with those punks.. You reinvented the image in my head of an old granpa with a walking stick chasing lame ass punks down the street yelling, except riding a BMX, and ommit the walking stick..
Honestly a heart warming story of courage, emotion and understanding of the ever expanding generation gaps in our society.
Monkey is starting to feel old is he? Awwwwe. LOL but still rocks around on a BMX :P. ???
¿
;)
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Haha well the yelling was more like a voice loud enough saying "arghhhh im gunna getchaa"
But these kids had already done their sprint and from the darkness came me on a black bmx, in black clothes I was co-incidentally wearing.
And I'm 27!! These kids were like 16-17, I'm 6'3" tall so I didn't really have to do much to scare them haha, and wasn't going to bash them either it seemed cruel lol
Definitely wasn't lame, the funniest was the last kid who was fatter than his 2 friends running ahead. It was on a footpath next to a fenced golf course and traffic was on the road so they had to run straight haha
Anyway this fat kid couldn't keep up with his friends and was crying out to them but they run off on him, even with him jogging and panting at walking pace I stayed about a cars length behind him with an angry look on my face. He ended up jumping these bushes next to a bridge I thought he necked himself
Still crack up everytime I think of it. Only regret is I didn't have my ebike on the road then that would have been fun !!
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Haha well the yelling was more like a voice loud enough saying "arghhhh im gunna getchaa" from the darkness came me on a black bmx, And I'm 27!! 6'3" tall.
Anyway this fat kid couldn't keep up with his friends and was crying out to them but they run off on him, even with him jogging and panting at walking pace I stayed about a cars length behind him with an angry look on my face.!
Definitely wasn't lame,
Wha? a 27yo 6.3 ft male on a BMX chasing an exhausted fat kid yelling "arghhhh im gunna getchaa?
LOL sound lame to me.
But to be honest I would of prolly did nothing exceppt clean the garbage up and yell you F'n C's. Even more lame.
Very funny story monkey. Funny in a lame way I ment. ;D
Thanks for sharing.
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Can confirm what Cornelius wrote about the EU laws.
The motor can supply power up to max 25km/h
The motor can be max 250W
The motor must be pedal-activated; no pedaling, no motor power.
I also want to give my approvingly to Monkeys non-violent way of handling the problem with the trashcan bastards.
Peter
Citizen in the Kingdom of Sweden
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Bit of confusion in the UK, as far as I can see, the road traffic act of 1983 allows a throttle, but only maximum 200W output, and max kerb weight of 40KG, max 15MPH.......seems the only country in EU that allows a throttle...
regards
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I for one am getting sick of the wave of EU compliance goons hitting the forums with their BS.
I know the subject is all important to a good part of the populace, but the direction this is all heading, from my perspective, is conceived as corporate cyber social destructive behavior.. War makers.
To some, all this globalized hog wash may be interpreted as assertive and lawful, and others its just a drop in the ocean and avoided.
These compliance goons could be an individual on the list below.
Psychopath looking for its next victim.
A lawyer from a wierd country looking for it next victim to con out of cash.
A delusional individual who has self misinformed themselves of their obligated duties to society and their employer, usually the victim, or victims in this case.
This lot are really starting to push and its starting to piss me off.
What happened to the thread where this person and it wasn't a bot, Spammed some international compliance site and asked whether or not it would be legal to post all this crap from their site that he goons requested in the first place some week before.
We go to the web site and it says "hello freakin world" posted by mike, Im like Wahhh the. So a track the site and it some lawyer in Gibraltar.
No this EU law crap needs to end because its not effecting just the EU now, and when that happens we start to lose site of our own identities as individuals and see a false authority.
Their are ways around this problem and its don't respond to it and find ways to circumvent it.
Enough with the baby tears guys and gals, you should, we all should find ways to cut these self-made-men right out of the loop and be rid of them.
At least in the places they don't belong. In my back yard the EU what ever means jack. I'll send what I like and if don't break my Laws and it is with reason understanding it wouldn't be something dangerous or illegal by pure common sense or international law, stuff the EU directive, and where the sun don't shine.
Maybe this is the direction this discussion should be heading. >:(
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Ok.
In was going to go off course but I figured it out.
To the EU dealers.
Need to stop responding to any spam that crawls your product sites. I am suspicious as I know how these people work with technology.
Just like that lawyer from Gibraltar spamming the new international compliance site was self generating an image of importance and the thread should of been left there to warn all who wish to deal with Ebikes.
Some off these compliance's need to be put into context, more like import legalities is what concerns the importers. And when approached by an individual what steps they could take to initiate a bumpy ride for your business with any information they may get from you.
If you ignore the push, and see it as what it is, an elaborate scam, then when you read the next thread or spam email to your business you will realize what is really going on.
I guess what it comes to is the best scam is one that makes you feel you need to obey some fabricated law.
These scam artists are not just running with the loot they stink up the place the for every one else. Nobody knows what is real or not real.
These con men actually will interfere with your dispatch by contacting the real authorities in your country and uttering some lies who they are and what they mean to you, and raise question about the legality of your import export behavior if they think you're on the hook. They just call the dogs on your gear when there is no reason for it then tell you a sticker will save you from my harassment.
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E.U Regulations,
There will be a fart tax soon! Methane increases global temperatures! ::)
I wouldn't worry about E-Bike regulations. The E.U is full of stupid regulations. I ride my bike responsibly, and always obey the 50 KPH speed limit in towns ;D
I seriously can't see local police stopping every E-bike rider. There are more deaths related to ice drivers than any other motorized vehicle, in Ireland anyway. And all they are good for here is sitting on motorways pulling for speeding on the best roads on the Island, when the majority of deaths are in the early hours of the weekend mornings, on atrocious quality back roads. And speeding in the 50KPH zones in towns is ridiculous.
You can travel on a good quality road here with a speed limit of 80KPH and turn down a pot hole filled road with grass growing in the middle and both wing mirrors of your car scraping off the hedges with a speed limit of 80KPH ;D no joke!
They set up road blocks checking not for drink driving or vehicles that are not road worthy, but for out of date tax and insurance discs! They should get their priorities right!
I will continue to deify the stupid E.U law of 250 watts pedal assist until the day the local police pull me screaming to the local station, and if they take it off me I will build another, and another, and another.
The problem I have is when more and more people start riding E-bikes, and there might be people that draw attention to themselves by them causing a nuisance to others. That will give the rest of us a bad name!
The E.U don't want any of it's citizens having a very cheap form of transport that they can not tax. That's the real problem! It costs me nearly 90 Euros to fill my 2003 Audi A4 with diesel. Now that is just plain wrong, road trips are a thing of the past, weekends away are far fewer! That PISSES me off. I don't just ride for fun, I ride my E-Bike because it saves me a fortune in Diesel!
Rant over..........again.
Mark
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Holy cow!!
I'll Dr...
Hmmm, where is it.. no that's not mine.. hmm thats empty. I got up for a sec.. no not over here.. I was just.. maybe behind these.. oh there it is...found it ..
...ink to that! Cheers!!
;D ;D ;D
I'm conviced its that avatar the from the first poster has in this thread.. Always makes me thirsty.. ;)
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Although Norway are outside EU,
In Norway they where actually forbidden until 2003.
The law in EU is called 2002/24/EC. It regulates pedelecs...
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In Norway they where actually forbidden until 2003.
I didn't know that. :)
Though, if there is no law regulating a vehicle, it's not legal I guess... ;)
In my opinion, the regulations regarding power should be adjusted to each country's topology; there's no fun riding an e-bike in hilly Norway with just 250W, but in the flat Netherlands or Denmark it would be ok for assistance...
I myself @ 80kg with an 750W motor barely manages 25km/h up an steep hill... (Though, 40+km/h flat country are no problem (no pedlec, but with, it would be legal (except for the power...)).
I think there has been a change in the regulations regarding mopeds here; before the rules was max 50km/h, max 2.5hp, and now I think they've removed the 2.5hp limit, or adjusted it to 4-5hp?
That way, one can keep to the speed limit, and keep the speed uphills too... ;)
(Edit:
My point with the last statement was that similar adjustments to the law should also be applied to e-bikes... ;) )
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Here in this previous post is a full description of current legislation in Europe: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=499.0 (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=499.0)
Please be aware that new EU legislation is on its way and will likely slack the 250W limit to probably 1kW peak power and put on a weight limit of 25 kg that is likely to include batteries. You can read more about these new suggestions here:
http://www.bike-eu.com/news/4807/etras-e-bike-type-approval-draft-discussed-at-european-parliament.html?nb=bike&editie=01%20maart%202011&link=ETRA%E2%80%99s+E-Bike+Type+Approval+Draft+Discussed+at+European+Parliament&WT.mc_id=mail_bike_01+maart+2011 (http://www.bike-eu.com/news/4807/etras-e-bike-type-approval-draft-discussed-at-european-parliament.html?nb=bike&editie=01%20maart%202011&link=ETRA%E2%80%99s+E-Bike+Type+Approval+Draft+Discussed+at+European+Parliament&WT.mc_id=mail_bike_01+maart+2011)
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Gee you guys would be itching to hear the news !!!
I really hope that 25Kg weight limit does not come into effect... Do the officers carry scales???
If you own a higher powered e-bike, obviously you already have a few tricks up your sleeve to avoid the law - but it must get on your nerves using PAS or pretending to pedal all the time??
Should the change occur, I'd say there would be a careful eye out from the law catching anyone going above the imposed speed limit.. Sorta defeats the purpose of having a e-bike that can rocket upto 25km/h and retain the speed uphill but how would they know how fast you can 'pedal' hehe ;)