GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => eBike Mods/Legalization => Topic started by: Leslie on October 20, 2010, 12:14:52 PM
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Edit: I changed the name of this thread because its new title reflects better what I am trying to achieve.
I feel that the Magic controllers were engineered as a controller with 50 amp max like the WEB site says however they are limited for user protection.
But I also feel this so-called user protection has consequences when attempting top use all the MC functions like regen and also hinders good motor performances o take offs.
I recently bought two magic Pies (internal controllers).
The first hub seems limited to 15A cont and 23 amps max.
It seems to draw good current at high RPM and low current at slower RPM. Every other hubs does this different.
I get to test the second hub tomorrow after I spoke it and get a new tyre. and Gary at GM CA tells me its up for more than 25 amps.
If I notice the difference on take offs I will leave higher draw amp motor on my bike and have to do some modding to the second hub.
To be honest I sort of like it for just running into town and back but towing stuff on it could prove difficult.
Seriously it can barely get up my small grade driveway on a take off but really sucks up the juice and goes fast on the go.
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24v setting there Mr. Les ?
how are you anyways man
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Great. Thanks Monkey. But how many watts.
I just finished putting the other rim on and it is close to true.
The second hub is slower than the last but does improve when set at 24v 30 amps cont and 50 amps max.
I can get 230 watts on take off on the second hub and over 330 watts on the first hub. I set the first one down just before I rode it last night and the take off were down below to 220 watts..
I honestly thing these need 50 amp worth of shunts for the software and maybe a 12 fet controller. Ive never used a six fet.
Going up the drive way on the take offs on the low amp hub set at 24v 30AC and 50AM is better than the higher hub set at what one would call normal parameters.
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My MP takes 1630 watts on takeoff if there is an enough steep hill, but I don’t have the MC though.
Do you have any torque arm, Leslie?
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1630W!!! wow! ;D
Mine is the old version and have a record of 1370W with internal controller. :D
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My MP takes 1630 watts on takeoff if there is an enough steep hill, but I don’t have the MC though.
Do you have any torque arm, Leslie?
No I dont have a torque arm yet, I had one prior to my MP but it I never needed it, even when carting heavy loads my dropots are solid. I could ride with my wheel nuts undone and the axel wont spin out. as My dropouts are very strong by themselves. Your bike is a fine Dark Lady where mine is a solid iron town bike. LOL I was going to call her the Iron Maiden but she been ridden too much,. Its a very heavy bulky bike.
1600 watts is prolly too much for the MC internal.
So I have modded Pie no.1 now, I used an old GM 10 amp shunt to bypass the 25 amp shunt in the MC.
With the solid state relay I think I will get another 4 amps cont on top of the 17 amps cont I'm getting and 8 amps max. Im hoping for at least 500 watts on the take offs.
The high watts kick in after 5 seconds of acceleration, The MC 6 fets have too much resistance during high loads are being used.
I am going to make my internal controller external by the end of this week if it lives this long and hopefully have MP no.1 on a solid bike by 2 weeks.
Havent road tested the modded hub yet but the controller works as I hooked it up on a pack with no BMS and she spins alrighty.
I will have some pics and more info on the shunt mod I did soon.
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Well here is my mod I later added more solder because of this picture then re glued the cap back down with out all the gunk on the shunt.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3513;image)
But a bigger problem looms. This cut had developed on both my hubs. I have not excessively put too much pressure on this either, "yet" but I have changed the hub at least twice.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3515;image)
The wires were not like this when they arrived, but I feel the cable hole on the MP is too sharp. Either way no go on the bike until this problem is properly dealt with on both hubs.
To avoid this problem one can hot melt glue gun the wires to base the wires away from the sharp edge.
But
Here is my chance to totally remove the controller on hub no.1
I will make the edges on the cable hole smooth with a file sand paper and steel wool.
Both hubs and controllers still work and am keen to test the modded hub as soon as I stop this cable cutting business..
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Wooot.
I did a repair job on the axel. I used some thermal transfer adhesive and filled up the split and glued the cord still. I found a good way to set the cable.
And Oh my 37 amps max. Im getting around a 1v drop from nominal 51.2. And getting over 20 amps continuous.
I need to turn the max amps down in the software just a little..
The Mod is working as much as I want it to ATM maybe a little more than I want.
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Yeow! Way to join to 2000 watt club qualifying at 2009.988 watts.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3517;image)
Ive since changed the settings in the software, Ive almost cot full controlll of the amps and what not.
Now I have set speed limit to 32kph with Forward speed scale set to 75% top speed with the wind 33.3 kph.
Max amps is now 30 amps and continuous is 20 amps. This feels perfect. I did a lot of stop starts as this is where the heat will build and the motor got a bit warm. I believe it wont be so bad cruising at 32kph using around six amps.
Cruise looks more efficient. I take it for a longer ride tomorrow and see how much power it uses.
Pie No:1 gets a 50 amps shunt put in and we can control the amps via the software properly.
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Fresh off the charger with my more conservative software settings im getting 30.42 amps max at 51.6v thats 1569 watts.
In the software with the shunt mod installed the constant current is set to 13 amps but I get 20 amps, and max is set to 25 amps but I get 30 amps.
I may need to go to 36v mode.
With the other hub when I l install 50 amp shunt MOD I will set it to 48v mode.
And looking at the CA it hangs around 1000 watts up to 32kph where it is speed limited to,
I love it. What I have here is a stocky powerful bike. Cool off the mark that has an efficient cruise speed. The speed limit does not take away from the torque during take offs.
I ride around at 33kph up hills and on flats it pretty cool having this constant speed, makes you pedal for anything higher.
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Hi Leslie,
It's great to see you've manage to tweak your Pie to just over 2KW, I was pretty convinced that you wouldn't be able to resist modding it for very long.
I'm now wondering how long it will be before you try for even more power, or perhaps Delta/Star switching for more speed or just to see which is the most efficient configuration?
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/5027Watts.JPG)(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)
5KW might be possible with some 100 Amp FETs and a shunt upgrade, but it would get HOT!
Alan
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It would make a big difference if the hole edges are smoothed to begin with.
Ive been looking out for this you know.
Maybe if I wasnt changing my hub around so much and I set the cable straight to begin with It would not of been so bad. Thats 3 times Ive taken each hub off now.
I wasnt being too carefull till now, careful enough if it was so cut throat. Until I get some cables and do this external controller thing I am just going to leave this on and glued up safe.
It can be avoided but I think this was due to just vibrations and the cable sitting against the edge.
Lucky I caught it in time.
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Anyway.
From what I am discovering the MC controller is supposed to have 50 amp shunt in it so you can run the MC software at 48v with the right current settings.
I put in one shunt I need to go to 36v setting but turn max amps up. If I add two shunts I need to keep the high max amps but go up to the 48v setting.
If I use three 10 amp shunts I guess I can set the max amps down then. To some degree the BMS in the ping BMS is already adding some and allows around 75A peak.
Before the shunt mod the bike was sluggish and the figures I put into the software is not eve close to what I am getting but the more I unrestrict the current the more the software becomes calibrated and useful.
What point of LVC if you need to set the controller at 24v or even REGEN with an full range duty cycle capability happening and a 20 amp bottle neck stuck in before it, is definitely one reason why these controllers are failing.
Hey I'll even be tempted to try regen when the controller wont allow a larger v drop between the battery and fet side of the shunt.
With all this new found power I need to keep sight on my battery capabilities and also what amps can the coils take inside the motor. The best I should allow is 25 amps max for my battery sake.
But I want all the amps from take off. Where the resistive shunt is taking all of the power away at high load times a 50 amp shunt should certainly liven things up.
The software controls are good to use for current limitation as it is more efficient to use switching, and switching methods of current control does not prejudice due to resistance but rather lowers the effect of resistance by use of pulse technology.
It will be tomorrow I will get some gear and make the internal controller external with a big fat hunky heat sink on my fets and a 50 amps worth of shunt in place and see if I can control this thing with the software alone.
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I just took it for its first real run with the 10 amp shunt installed. The ride consisted of 4 hills 2 short steep hills one small hills not so steep and one moderate hill. I think I would climb 100 meters on this ride maybe. Typical of my over all usual usage.
Much better on the roads, I measured my wheel circumference and calibrated the CA it was close enough at default.
I did 7.80 kms and consumed 1.93 ah. Top speed 35kph. Thats 247ma per KM 12.08 wh/km
With the 15ah pack if I divide 15ah by 247mah I get 60km range. Let say I don't want my pack to go lower than 25% state of charger I still get 45kms range.
Thats insane. Here I have a MP hub that pulls 1500 watts and can go 45kms distance and it moves off the mark with no hesitation. The motor was warmish to touch.
I could prolly lose some heat by adjusting the max amps down just a little more and not lose too much performance. I think with the 50 amp shunt the bike will be better again.
Im think having speed limit can save power in some situations but create heat with lots of stop starts. Maybe why I should remove the controller from the PIE all together.
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I set the controller to 36v. 25 amps peak and 17 amps continuous.
I now get 25 amps max on the dot and it hovers around 20 amps continuous.
Ive shaved 250 watts off the last setting I tested so this may decrease the warmth I feel in the motor a bit.
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Ok the controller voltage is set to 48v and results for the 10 amp shunt mod in respect of better management,.
Peak current set to 27 amps.
Actuall max current 23 amps.
Constant current set to 13 amps,
Actual constant current 17 amps.
Full scale speed 41.4kph
Seem as long as the shunt over passes the required current the software can take over.
This is closer to what I imagine. The bike still accelerates off the mark fast enough. Shall test efficiency tomorrow,
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The irony is, is my bike is now set to do no more or less than it was from the box, 17 amps cont and 23 amps max, however the difference the Mod has made, is, I get much more power from 0kph and the same at 42kph.
I consume more watts initially. It's like I squeeze the torque out of the thing rather than just allow the torque to appear.
I do believe on more than a 20 amp shunt would be needed to get better off the mark response. It would get to a point, low shunt resistance at slow RPM may place to much stress on the fets for any benifits to be gleened.
Im going to get 40 amps max and 20 amps cont and make it live for a long time from my internal controller made external with MP no.2.
crosses fingers I don't mess it all up.
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Yes so in conclusion to this MOD is.
Only use a shunt of a resistance you can know to be correct. The tools one needs to test a shunt can be a little pricey, so I used and old GM controller shunt and I really winged it.
Be sure to set your max amps down in the software and if your using the 24v setting for pulse power you best set it to 48v with this Mod.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3513;image)
I not touch anything else. Unless there is a dry solder joint, I don't do anything else to the controller. I just stick the shunt in like the picture check the board for solder splatter and close the motor back up, set and test.
The GM connectors. Match the arrows as close as you can and its good. ;D
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I just did a heavy load test.
I dragged back a over $200 worth of groceries. It was slow off the mark but with trailer full good speed was attainable. I drew 24 amps max. Again for trailing a lot of the torque was mid to top speed.
Was great once I got on the cane fields. Powered up my hills under a heavy load at approx 35kph I used 4.2 ah. Very good on economy for hauling up hills.
It was a mid temperature day and the motor was a little warmish after a minute of resting.
I managed to get some gear to make the other hub controller external and I will fix the sharp cable hole.
I have a massive heat sink. 2 X 60 amp polarized latching relays. A new DC to DC converter, two Anderson connectors, some good phase cable, a six pin plug connector for the hall wires and a temp probe wire for future installation, and a project box to make it all work.
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yeehaw !!!!!
good on you man I'm loving this MP data spilling out of you !
top stuff
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Well Im still riding around on MP no.1 its been awesome.
MP no.2 has had its controller removed and the cable insulator damage was a lot worse than I thought.
Any way I think this controller still works.
Ive run phase cables from the hub and a usb cord I has laying aroud is soldered to the hall sensors.
I resoldered the three phase cables and made sure every winding end was fully stripped of its enamel before I soldered the windings.
I used the axel circlip that was cutting into the cable on the other side of the bearing so the bearing has two circlips holding it still and now the bearing is solid.
Where the cable runs anong the axel Ive used multiple layers of both electrical tape and heet shrink to keep the cable fastened into the slot.
I rounded the axle cable moat where the cable sits in and comes out of the hub, so it can not cut into the cable anymore.
Ive swapped all the protruding caps to the other side of the controller and its ready to mount externally onto a heat sink.
Ive installed a 10 amp shunt soldered short so I should get 45 to 50 amps max and 30 amps cont approx.
I had to replace a 25v 470uf cap as I may of damaged it.
I hooked the controller up to a battery without hall sensors and throttle, and I got two beeps. So the logic is still ticking.
I hope tomorow I will have advanced enough to test this controller on the hub.
Ive been taking a few snaps along the way I will post up sooon,
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Swwwwweeeeet.
Last night I hooked up the controller to my now made external controller hub and external controller, and she works.
I havent installed the hall senor connection yet but it worked fine in sensorless mode.
Here is the damage that needed to be repaired. Looks like I got lucky and caught it it time.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3528;image)
I used an old file and sand paper to smooth it up.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3530;image)
Here is a pic of the stator finished rewiring,
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3532;image)
I got some Pictures of the controller comming, I even impressed my self with some of the work done on it. Those traces are beefy and the connectors to the hub phase wires are chunky.
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Hi Leslie,
I must say the work you do on your bikes is truly impressive. You really do have a love for it with an incredible amount of confidence and skill. It really is inspiring and even got me out in the back yard again working on my bike. Nothing to the level of your work though.
Gary
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I hate fabricating. But I love doing electronics and weird experiments,
But hey its looking pretty cool. 8)
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3536;image)
I tested it, the wheel turns. The hall sensors have connections and the motor gets its blade connectors tonight.
Before its finished I want to a bead gasket of sealant between the project box and heat sink, the gasket will be as far away from the fets as the box will allow.
And I install a charge feed and two Polarized latching realys.
Although that heat sink isn't aluminum it big and heavy so I will pot rivet it to the project box. I will need to make the heat sink the main installed part not the box.
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This has got to be the best GM 6 fet controller on this planet ATM.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3538;image)
The controller is allen bolted this heat sink. There is a riser between the fets and sink, plenty of thermal grease between. I kept the mica therm strip in there, as it is great stuff.
I made the riser from a plate of aluminum and the black concrete floor/water is my machiner.
If you want a six fet controller to do the work of a 12 fet controller give it the cooling of an 18 fet controller. Man this sink is overkill but it shall keep the derating well under control.
Sure its no replacement for a bigger controller but certainly will do more than 25 amps. :D
It will sit right on top of the back tire for a fan effect. I will almost water proof it too. Maybe spray some varnish over the board too.
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Lets take a peak of the fets.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3540;image)
They look really well clamped onto this heat sink.
I'll make sure its are not too tight.
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I found that just general working on the hub has made the axle tip thread bent. So nothing huge to worry about I willo just set it straight
Well what I noticed is that the GM wheel nut is made are of softer metal than the axle, which is a good sign the axles are strong. And, the GM wheel nut's thread is made to fail before the axle thread, which is good too, right?
But in the case where one has to completely remove the wheel nut will foresee the undocumented issue that could cause axle spin out or whell nut popping off like one had done to me.
As the user puts the softer steel wheel nut over the bent thread the harder metal gouges out the wheel nut and it become loose over the axle.
To fix this and or avoid this issue it maybe prudent to use a high tensile bolt nut to reset the thread before removing any wheel nut. As a result my GM wheel nut is prolly still OK but I will use the high tensile nut I used on my GM HBS hub as it doesn't wobble around as much and will repair the thread every time I remove the high tensile nut.
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I set a new personal record with the new Magic Beef Cake Mod. 46.66 amps at 49.6v. 2314.336 Watts.
I did about 10 stop starts and went off road to see if I could get this controller warm. I climbed a bumpy grassy hill with no troubles where I hit my peak 46.6 amps.
Man it gets up and goes.
Results after 10 mins of riding, the controller nor motor had any temperature change. I will have to get the 20ah batt working on this kit and try for a permanent setting of 40 amps.
I still have a little bit of cable and external controller management as I just taped it all safely into a workable configuration.
But the internal to external conversion is almost finished and I am all but calling it a success.
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I took it for a 9km run where I took a trailer. Its a cool afternoon and its gusty windy.
I drew 49.07 amps max at 49.3v. 2419.151 watts max.
The motor again was a little warmish about body temperature to touch and the internal modded now external controller was almost cold. I felt a tiny bit of heat on the back of the controller but it was much cooler then the motor.
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Hmmm so that means you have to update your signature pic post me thinks there Les ;)
and Gary may have to lend you his cape soon with all the flyin' around your doing!
So I assume the top speed does not change, just the speed reaching it??
I'm so jealous. This isn't fair they should pull 2.5K out of the box lol
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Well Well.
:(
I got some pics of the setup but I wanted to be 2500 watts before I took the pic of the CA. Damed I was so close.
I so wanted to clean up the cords on this controller and drilled into its plastic case thinking I will be careful huh? then grzzchchch. I drilled right through the project box and then into the board.
I hate drilling and grinding and stuff..
OMFG. LOL
I cleaned off at least 4 SM diodes, and gouged out 4 five micro tracks. The damage is repairable with a magnifying glass. And they are just diodes so value may not be important..
I get some pics of it soon.
The thing is my box is all lonely now, Ive got an external hub now at least. Im thinking of putting another MC in this box. But I will take the opportunity to finish the box with the failed controller and try to repair it.
Bike two is taking a little bit longer.
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Ok so scratch my last post!! I'm fully informed now..
Geez Les, so sorry to hear; that sounds like some of my luck you had there!
I know your determination will most definitely resolve this problem, and lets hope soon :)
And by no means trying to give you any instruction but here is a few things you may or may not have in your tool set and may want in a shopping list..
Bunnings:
Ozito 210W Drill with depth -$35
Or - about $90-$120 for a entry bench drill, get a mini chuck for pcb size drill bits
Then from there or any crafts shop etc. a good set of strong razor blades in various shapes. Assuming you are using Jaycar or Altronics/DSE project boxes, being mostly ABS they are really easy to work with razors.
I do all of my holes with a pin first, then round the hole out slowly with a small razor until it is perfect.
One thing I have always wanted (apart from a PCB CNC machine!) is one of these:
http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TD2130&keywords=taper&form=KEYWORD (http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TD2130&keywords=taper&form=KEYWORD)
Have no clue why I have not bought one before! But further searches reveal this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TAPERED-REAMER-SET-2PCE-BRAND-NEW-REAM-ALIGN-ENLARGE-/250719125509?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a60064005 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TAPERED-REAMER-SET-2PCE-BRAND-NEW-REAM-ALIGN-ENLARGE-/250719125509?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a60064005)
Very handy....
:D
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And If I took all that money I could buy a bicycle to put it all on.
Honestly Monkey if I had removed it all like I thought I should it would be all good,
I think Im going to get a 72v 12 fet controller with no LVC.
I can still try fix the MP controller, but I can use it for parts.
The 72v controller I want can do 45 amps, I will do an all volt mod to it. Ha then I can just add individual cells or a turbo series of A123, heck even an SLA that can do 50 amps, that will certainly make an interesting chat.
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This how it looked before the disaster. All I needed to do is tidy the cables and put a hole in the box and lid put a lid on it.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3544;image)
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I so wanted to clean up the cords on this controller and drilled into its plastic case thinking I will be careful huh? then grzzchchch. I drilled right through the project box and then into the board.
Oh NO! OMG! Wow what a frustrating thing to happen. I really feel for your frustration on that one. If you do consider another GM Controller, I do have one of the gold external controllers. I could get it to you in 6 to 10 days. I don't know anything about it, But i'm sure in your hands you would be able to finally discover the difference between the gold and silver controllers. I was saving it for myself, but I am quite happy with my bike as is. I never thought I would offer to part with it, but who could use one more then you. Anyway If you already have you eyes set on something else, I understand.
Really sorry to hear about the drilling incident!
Gary
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I so wanted to clean up the cords on this controller and drilled into its plastic case thinking I will be careful huh? then grzzchchch. I drilled right through the project box and then into the board.
I hate drilling and grinding and stuff..
Ouch! I felt that! Not sure I'd go for Monkey's machine shop, but I do like to wrap tape around the drill shank to indicate how deep I intend to go. I use a cheap roll of colored electrical phase marking tape. A few good, tight wraps will make a ridge to help stop you. (unless pushing like you're really determined) ;)
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Geez way to slap Monkey in the face lol
Ok so without the drill the tapered reamers are great anyways.
I just bought a pair from the bay. And no I don't have a 'machine shop' haha those tools I recommended were cheap as.
Valy has a machine shop.... Now that's some gear I wish I had my hands on! I'm picturing him building a custom frame now with in-built controller and battery mounts etc... So jealous!
MM
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Geez way to slap Monkey in the face lol
MM
Oh, sorry there, mate!
If I'd known I was gonna hit ya, I could'a put a little more into it. ;)
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watch it, I have a cloud that gets pretty angry hehe
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You guys have me worried. I sort of feel, UMMM a Monkey Magic and a Dummy Dave to save me.
The things I can do with a roll sticky tape amazes me. In the end I just taped it all up with a big roll of stretchy duct tape, put a rubber hood over it. Its done.
Bike no.1 is now completed...
Haaaa as for my bike light, after reading endless reviews on deal extreme for bike torch holders they all seemed to not mesure up. The bike torch is secured to a hose clamp with electrical tape. Fast, cheap reliable and easy. OMG it worked so good I have to put two torches on this way..
Yes my bike is held to together plastic tape and plastic ties, and I bet my gallery pics come up looking good too. If anything, sewing leather might be a more paractical skill to learn.
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You guys have me worried. I sort of feel, UMMM a Monkey Magic and a Dummy Dave to save me.
I'll save ya! Duh ta da da! It's a bird, it's a plane no its...
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I so wanted to clean up the cords on this controller and drilled into its plastic case thinking I will be careful huh? then grzzchchch. I drilled right through the project box and then into the board.
Oh NO! OMG! Wow what a frustrating thing to happen. I really feel for your frustration on that one. If you do consider another GM Controller, I do have one of the gold external controllers. I could get it to you in 6 to 10 days. I don't know anything about it, But i'm sure in your hands you would be able to finally discover the difference between the gold and silver controllers. I was saving it for myself, but I am quite happy with my bike as is. I never thought I would offer to part with it, but who could use one more then you. Anyway If you already have you eyes set on something else, I understand.
Really sorry to hear about the drilling incident!
Gary
Yes I want to replace the controller as I spent a bit of time doing this controllern box with a big heat sink and all.
But rather me spend all my money on things that will get me a working kit, at this moment, Id be best to get a bike to put this kit onto.
Here is my problem. Every time I have kit no.2 ready to install there is nothing to install it on. In fact I just keep swapping my two kits until eventually human error will prevail and I risk loosing both kits if this swapping wheels keeps up.
I should finish one bike and leave it alone to finish bike two. I last bought two HBS GM kits, one for a spare. Having two kits always has had me at least one bike on the road on most bad days.
Hold the gold controller for a few weeks Gary until I get this second MP on new bike.
Some things ive been thinking of could be better than the circular clips GM use. The freewheel gear side bearing is made to slip on over the axle. I was thinking of using a washer as a spacer on the inside of the bearing. It seems that the gear side bearing protrudes from its seat in its default posistion where I could use a spacer and have the bearing push right into its seat and have the side plate hold the bearings and hub sturdy.
The bearing protrudes about 5mm so a single washer and or a thinner inside between the stator base and gear side bearing might just make this hub solid without using circlips. Then one sould use electircal tape and heat shrink wrap the cables into place.
I have some pics to show how well the tape can hold the wire into place. If you stretch the tape tights it goes hard.
Both of my wheels are pretty solid just the same, but If I want to push the motors uses to infinity and beyond its design some things should be easy to improve,
Like you could get the MP to handle 25 percent more heat if you were to increase air flow inside the motor. One could attatch some aluminium edging inside the motor to act as a fan. The wattage ability of such a motor would return good efficiency for long and frequent heavy loading
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Leslie,
What an absolutely awesome read. i've only just got around to reading the full thread and am truely impressed with the results you got from bike number 1. It amazing that you've unlocked the magic controller so sucessfully. You've got the controller doing what in theory it should do already. It's just great that you can now tweek the current and voltage parameters for a proper wide range of uses and limits.
The second bike at present goes over my head a little bit - but i'm learning more all the time ;D
Hats off to ya Fella! 8)
Andrew
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Hold the gold controller for a few weeks Gary until I get this second MP on new bike.
Consider it on hold. I was thinking of switching one of my motors to an external one. Since I have 2 Cycle Analyst's running on my bike I could get some real time data and see what the difference is, If any. I was considering using the gold controller, but then I would not know if the differences would be of any use if im not using a standard controller.
I do have a few other things on the table, but I'm hoping to swap my front motor to external this weekend.
Gary
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Why thank you Andrew.
Stayt tuned for some Pics of my bike. I still have a fully working bike running 30 amps max. I finished the light system. 2 X 3 watt torches and a P7 10 watt glued to a big heat sink.
The light system runs off a 53v to 3.5v DC to DC converter and runs 16 watt worth of Leds and only consumes 20 watts of power. It has a back red brake light that gets brighter when the brakes are actiavted. The 2 x 3 watt torches work as conventional head lights and the P7 10 watter is set for higher beam. Un-bloody-Real All I need do is switch on the bike and at night switch the lights on too. When I get on the bike to ride it feels like getting into a warm cosy bed on a rainy night. Everything I need bar the rear view mirror is there.
Bike no.2 has beeen put on laybuy.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517ytEdZwDL.jpg)
A DiamondBack FS dual disk brake aluminium MtB. Im going to risk using an alloy frame to get the weight down. Ive seen the bike and read some reviews it looks to be strong enough for the job.
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I was considering using the gold controller, but then I would not know if the differences would be of any use if I'm not using a standard controller.
Gary, apart from the obvious colour difference, what other differences are there between the standard and gold controllers?
(http://goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/Cruise%20BLDC%20Controller.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1924.0;attach=1802;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1924.0;attach=1802;image)
Do you know if they are both limited to 60V maximum?
Is the gold one supposed to be better or more powerful etc?
Alan
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Alan I suspect they are the same as the version number is v2.0.
Other than looks I suspect no difference, but the gold controller would make the owner feel more Golden owning one of these.
I actually don't mind the MC controller the way I am using it. Its better than I thought it would be. The wife gave the MP the thumbs up when she did her first run on it last night. Said she had plenty of confidence and power to do her run.
I have the working MP modded to run 30 amps for a few days now max and it came home from the shops cold.
Its settings are.
48v
23amps max I get 30 amps max.
13 amps cont. I get about 15 amps cont.
Really about 24 amps max constantly. So I have a 6 amp spike to deal with. Not too bad. I suspect what you got to watch for when the hub is like spiking at 40 amps and youre seeing 22 amps real time on the CA.
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Mwahahaha. I just did 2500 watts with my MP.
Nice competing in traffic at roundabouts and lights.. :D
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3591;image)
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Leslie,
It's interesting to note that you are still getting 820mA of charging current even without regen!
Presumably this only occurs when you exceed the motors maximum speed i.e. going fast downhill.
What do you reckon?
Alan
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Mwahahaha. I just did 2500 watts with my MP.
Nice competing in traffic at roundabouts and lights.. :D
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2639.0;attach=3591;image)
Woohoo! thats a hugh number. Im getting about 34 total with two motors and your getting 51 with one. I guess in a drag race you win! Maybe we could do some time trials like how many seconds to reach 32kph just to see the results.
Gary
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No/ I'll tell you why IMO. That reading believe it or not was from a bike that was speed limited to 35kph so the bike never reached top speed to get that 2500 watt reading.
I towed a new Diamondback MTB home in the trailer 18kms.
Yeah it could be that but it is circuit so some load resistance could be observed. Leakage when the fets switch off the diode in them is slower.
It always has been happening. But I think if I accelerate hard and release the throttle quickly the back electro magnetic energy under high loads and hits the fet diode in this fashion at any RPM.
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See that zero use of regen makes me wonder about what the wheels possibly do with high percentage regen, under load?
Hmmm how to get some more info on this... :S
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Regen is a beast I myself are not game play with aTM. It would be better having a very wide current pathway through the shunt so the volts don't get up too high between the motor and the shunt.
My modded controller is prolly more up to regen than ever. But I cant afford to lose this build just now.
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Gary, apart from the obvious colour difference, what other differences are there between the standard and gold controllers?
Do you know if they are both limited to 60V maximum?
Is the gold one supposed to be better or more powerful etc?
Alan
Actually I really don't know, Maybe now that I have my front motor external now I'll give it a try. But what if I like it? I already offered it to Leslie..
Gary
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Leslie,
It's interesting to note that you are still getting 820mA of charging current even without regen!
Presumably this only occurs when you exceed the motors maximum speed i.e. going fast downhill.
What do you reckon?
Alan
I went for another ride and I recalled this question, so I tested a few things. Nope!
Actually I get that regen only when I apply brake switches. It seems regen at 0% may actually be .01% or something like that.
But not enough to make the regen tick into the regen log with the CA.