GoldenMotor.com Forum

General Category => eBike Mods/Legalization => Topic started by: Sundsvall on September 07, 2010, 08:04:51 PM

Title: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 07, 2010, 08:04:51 PM
Hi all,

Now I’ve put my winter girl back in one piece again and she’s dancing like never before. :D My smallest shrinking tube** went out and I have to buy new ones tomorrow then she’s ready for the winter. I’m also going to borrow a camera at my work tomorrow and post some pictures on her and her summer girlfriend, the summer girl is still waiting for her spokes though. The controller and the CA have arrived but I can’t get my hands on them yet. FedEx tried to deliver the package to my home yesterday during daytime when I was at work and leave me a note that I could pick it up at a storage house. I went to the storage house today but they had put it back on the truck for a new delivery attempt. They told me to pick it up after the truck has returned 17.00, the only problem was that they closed 17.00.
Isn’t it funny?

Back to my snow longing friend: I really give her a hard ride up the hill in the back of my house which she wasn’t capable to accomplish with the SLA’s. With the non-programmable controller she took 570 W and just carried me uphill.

I turned around after 200 m as I don’t want to kill her, just to realize that she didn’t have any brakes. I think I’ve learned something today: Always check the brakes after a mechanical excess. OMG how easy a bike roll downhill. :o

With the new programmable controller I was only getting 480 W and she didn’t manage to climb the hill by herself. I had set the controller to 24 V, 30 A continues and 50 A peak. The voltage in both cases was 26 V so there is a difference in the amps the controllers can supply.

I’m happy though because she’s much more muscular now than before the change of the battery. She’s also more beautiful since she has dieting away all those unnecessary equipment. And remember she's only a 250 watter. Now I have a programmable controller and its USB cable and no use for it.

**A direct translation from Swedish since I haven’t got the slightest idea what they called in English
Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on September 08, 2010, 01:47:28 PM
oooh she sounds sexy will you share her lol

make sure the pictures are not X rated !


:D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 09, 2010, 11:04:35 AM
Attached two pictures of my girls.

The waist of my blue winter girl will be a little ruined as it will contain both the controller and the battery. On the picture there are the motor cables but it became a lot more cables and plugs before it was all settled. A moment I was ready to give up but after I had cut off all unnecessary cables and terminals, I could squeeze it in. On top of this box near the frame you can see the pins where the battery connects and if you look very close you can see the studs in the tyre. I will post some pictures on her when she’s complete.

My dark lady is still hanging in the repair stand waiting for the new rim. Some of the spokes have been taking off for measuring cause. The spokes have arrived so I really hope that I measured them correctly. I took a shot from her behind showing her butt up in the air.

I’m a bit concerned over the possibility to cause an accident and be responsible for crashing some other vehicle. With no insurance that could definitely crash my economy. I’m therefore investigating the possibilities to have her registered as a moped and have her insured. It may be possible but also very expensive and I for sure have to fix her rear brake.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 09, 2010, 05:24:45 PM

My dark lady is still hanging in the repair stand waiting for the new rim. Some of the spokes have been taking off for measuring cause. The spokes have arrived so I really hope that I measured them correctly. I took a shot from her behind showing her butt up in the air.

I’m a bit concerned over the possibility to cause an accident and be responsible for crashing some other vehicle. With no insurance that could definitely crash my economy. I’m therefore investigating the possibilities to have her registered as a moped and have her insured. It may be possible but also very expensive and I for sure have to fix her rear brake.



I love the dark lady, very classy and the blue winter girl looks good for the tough stuff.

Peter as a rule of thumb I take it very easy around vunerable individuals, children and animlas are unpredictable.  One thing about the ebike is its ability to travel under 1 kph per hour.  Even people with pedals have trouble going so slow as they need to move too much weight in their legs to compete with a bike where you can sit so still and have motor assistance.

Be a slow stopper not a show stopper.  I have fun showing this advantge off as we can move slower than people can patiently walk.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on September 10, 2010, 11:14:42 PM
Am I sensing some laziness here Les?

;)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 11, 2010, 08:19:29 AM
Am I sensing some laziness here Les?

;)

Yes Lazy Lezy.  LOL.


I was sitting side saddle on my brushed Dyno as the motor bike style seat was a little narrow and harsh on the behind.

I put a flower print pillow I found on the side of the road, I has some ocy staps in the trailer and strapped it to the seat.  Now I can use the pedals at will.

Well the Little brushed Dyno overvolted to 36v and very high pedal to wheel RPM ratio is a little ripper.  If I put all I got into take offs both wheels literally jump off the ground and I do about 0 to 28kph in 2 seconds. hmwhirrrr,  Its funny loosing traction from both front and rear wheels as some take offs can be a little chaotic and you never know what could happen if you push it hard enough with pedal assist..
BI got some work to do on it but when Im finished Ill upload a vid of the biatch in action.

Seeing we going feminize our bikes by7 name I'll call this little ripper the Biatch,  LOL.  Shes small and tough and rides hard.   I can hit gutters head on at 28kph with shopping loads draped over the cross bar and she doesn't even squeal or complain.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 13, 2010, 08:54:32 AM
Hi agian!

Now I'd fitted the 96 mm double butted spokes and the 46 mm wide rim. Since it was difficult to adjust it exactly against an ordinary ruler, I build this stand for a more precise adjustment.

I must say I'm a bit concerned over how hard I can strain these spokes. I've read a lot about wheel building, but how can anybody explain the tense in a spoke?

Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 13, 2010, 11:56:30 AM
Hi agian!

Now I'd fitted the 96 mm double butted spokes and the 46 mm wide rim. Since it was difficult to adjust it exactly against an ordinary ruler, I build this stand for a more precise adjustment.

I must say I'm a bit concerned over how hard I can strain these spokes. I've read a lot about wheel building, but how can anybody explain the tense in a spoke?

Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden

Very very nice rim Peter.

On a rim like that with short spokes, not tense at all.  I would make it thumb and one finger tense and just so you hear them make a creaking noise once on your last go around.  The rim gives you much strength and there's not much stretch in short spokes.  Short spoke are strong too.  So you can rely upon the rim and the shortness of the spokes for a strong true rim.

Tight makes the strength of the spokes less IMO as they work against each other and shock bumps can pop short spokes..
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 13, 2010, 01:32:37 PM
I had a fuse blow on my brused bike.  Man I thought the controller was gone.  Lucky.

The wiring was oretty poor.  So I designed this old bike a new power Relay box based on a LM317t current follower circuit..


Cant charge with controller switched on.  Must switch off.

Light come off a 12v tap on SLA's and lights cant be on when charging.

At lowest voltage relay always has optimum voltages.

I did the work gooood on this one and it works extremely well.

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3318;image)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 15, 2010, 03:59:10 AM
Another good tip is I always use a dab of light machine oil on each nipple as it improves the torsion capabilities of the spoke nipple threads and makes it easier to know the tension by feel.

If its too late and you have the rim on there I would still try to get some oil in them.  And every time you re-true your rim add more light machine oil to nipple and spoke thread. before you work.. 

It is very easy to make a true wheel and have all the spokes tension out of balance.  

EG one spoke really tight can compensate for two spokes lose

Much harder to have a true wheel with all spokes even.  I used a small screw driver and tap each spoke and hear the pitch (tune) Like a  piano string. Being musical I came up with idea and since I have not popped a spoke due to uneven torsion.

If you're tone deaf then this obviously want work for you.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on September 15, 2010, 11:45:25 AM
teeheehee nipple  :D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 15, 2010, 04:33:14 PM
Yes, I did lubricate those nipples before I twisted them between my thumb and finger but it wasn’t until I used a tool on the nipples I could hear her complain. Almost every spoke did spoke to me in the same pitch and she became a real beauty whit the “Fat Ass” tyre on. Unfortunately she couldn’t lend on her kickstand because her butt became too heavy with the leather saddlebag containing the battery pack.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 15, 2010, 08:00:38 PM
I had a fuse blow on my brused bike.  Man I thought the controller was gone.  Lucky.

The wiring was oretty poor.  So I designed this old bike a new power Relay box based on a LM317t current follower circuit..


Cant charge with controller switched on.  Must switch off.

Light come off a 12v tap on SLA's and lights cant be on when charging.

At lowest voltage relay always has optimum voltages.

I did the work gooood on this one and it works extremely well.


I'm very impressed!!!

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 15, 2010, 08:38:04 PM

Much harder to have a true wheel with all spokes even.  I used a small screw driver and tap each spoke and hear the pitch (tune) Like a  piano string. Being musical I came up with idea and since I have not popped a spoke due to uneven torsion.

If you're tone deaf then this obviously want work for you.

As I have a past as a rock musician wannabe in a garage band I have the ability to tune a wheel. But in case we were all tone-deaf and nobody of us did understand how horrible it sounded, maybe this electronic tuner should be taken in serious consideration. Just to tune a wheel. ;D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on September 16, 2010, 10:37:09 AM
Hey wassup

Hehe what currency is that in?

*Monkey is holding the price of tuner in one hand and the price of another hub motor in the other...

:D


I'm liking this innovative way to tune a wheel!

Would even work for the hard of sight, then again you probably shouldn't be riding a bike if you can't see very well haha
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Spacey on September 16, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Just had another nipple come off into the egg shaped wheel rim that I have. Can not be bothered to take it all apart to fix it again.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 16, 2010, 08:00:54 PM
Just had another nipple come off into the egg shaped wheel rim that I have. Can not be bothered to take it all apart to fix it again.

If there’s less spokes the stress on the remaining will increase and most likely break one more. This will make it even more likely that you’ll snap another one. You have to consider the possibility on having an accident in full speed when there’s a total wheel collapse caused by overstressed spokes.

My suggestion is to rebuild the wheel with new spokes as a protection against a calamity.

Sincerely
Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 16, 2010, 08:12:55 PM

Hehe what currency is that in?
I'm liking this innovative way to tune a wheel!

The currency in the attached pdf-file is Swedish kronor (SEK). 100 SEK are approximately €10. Maybe someone will test the usefulness of  this kind of equipment. ;D

Regards
Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 18, 2010, 06:57:12 PM
Just came in from the garage after some brain twisting electrical surgery. There’re a lot of cables to solder and the final look has to be as clean as possible. The throttle has been shortened as a suggestion from Leslie and the power switch on the controller have been by-passed so I can use the switch on the throttle instead. The controller is going to be hidden and Mark really liked the switch. There’re a lot of tips I’ve picked up here and implemented on my bikes. :)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 19, 2010, 07:57:28 PM
Hi all!

The Dark Lady has finally been out on the road and the acceleration is amazing. ;D
I haven’t mounted any torque arms yet as I was much to eager to get her out. Nor have I programmed the Cycle Analyst so the 50 kph it shows may be wrong, but she’s definitely fast enough. Unfortunately, the autumn’s already here. Soon the temperature will go below zero and force her to go back in jail for at least five month, so I’ll note everything about speed, power consumption and distance as soon as possible. I’ll borrow a camera tomorrow and take some photos on her.

Happy Peter ;D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 19, 2010, 10:04:41 PM
Yes, I did lubricate those nipples before I twisted them between my thumb and finger but it wasn’t until I used a tool on the nipples I could hear her complain. Almost every spoke did spoke to me in the same pitch and she became a real beauty whit the “Fat Ass” tyre on. Unfortunately she couldn’t lend on her kickstand because her butt became too heavy with the leather saddlebag containing the battery pack.

Peter

Glad the end of this saga has drawn to an end Peter.  A lot more work goes into to these custom E-bikes than most would be prepared to put into it you know,

I had one of those kick stands and with the SLA's it got so heavy the stand bracket literally tor off the frame at the weldings.

Finding a decent stand is very difficult.  I would be keen to learn more of this progress.  Yesterday I received my replacement BMS for the 20ah LI pack from ping.  I put it on installed its anderson plugs and sealed the pack up and installed it onto the bike.

Here I do some 8.15 amp loading with 8*50 (200watt) halogen to cycle the pack up for my soon to come Magic Pies.I am hoping for them at the end of this week, but they could arrive in maybe next week 4~6 waiting.  Ive only to wait another 2 weeks and the 6 week delivery time is up.  SO they could even arrive today.

As you can see it's a simple pack design with a battery charger connector and a main output connector.  I'm keeping this part of the pack as simple and easy as possible to avoid any more accidents with the BMS..  If I add any special switches or CA devices they will be easy tested and just snap on to thos connectors.


Like you I have a Dark lady too.  We called it the Black Hawlk.   I think the rebuild deserve it a name change
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Bikemad on September 19, 2010, 10:35:40 PM
Peter, it's good to hear she's finally been tested.

What voltage is your Pie running on, and how many Amps does that Infineon controller actually draw?

Alan
 


Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 20, 2010, 03:13:25 AM
Peter, you don't mind if I use your thread to show you my progress too?

Saves me making one myself.  I'm pretty impressed with your new build Peter.

But can I show you my bike and how its working, its just a rebuild from my old bike..  And as you can see the postman brought me a little gift (sitting on my pack) from Reton Company, those DC to DC converters are here.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2010, 04:11:40 AM
The tape I used around my 20ah pack, it gets tighter as it lives on, what I thought was going to be solid and get more solid, squashed the BMS board :(. and the pressure pulled a BMS pin, lost an SM resistor the cells are all very good though. 8)  I had no idea what that stretchy duct tape does when its stretched around stuff. If Id protected the BMS structurally it would of been a very good pack.   Progress is intermittent in yard over this week.

In hind sight, I did allow the BMS room to move around and the fets wee poking out of the side as they had free air to them.  But I should of known when after a day the BMS became more difficult to move and then it was stuck (squashed) in the best spot for my needs.

I reset the pin clip fixed it and will need another BMS.  ::)

Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 21, 2010, 11:37:55 AM
Two step forward, one step back. This seems to be the norm for the e-bike builder. I’m sorry to here that your BMS crashed as a result of the tape contraction. The package gave a pretty solid and durable impression.

Pictures of the Dark Lady are coming up, but I can’t give any data on her as the bad weather keeps her inside. Even if she is a 48 V man-eater, she is affected by the rain.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2010, 12:04:17 PM
Well my pack was hard installed to the back rack,  I must of wound a few rolls of stretchy duct tape and made some bungy straps out of tractor inner tube to keep it on the rack.

It was very solid and to add I tapped a security cable around the pack.  It was a shame it didnt work, Im kicking my self looking at the amount of damage the pressure did to the BMS.,  It took me an hour to remove the pack and cutting the compressed foam and tape was scary as I didnt want to injure anything else with my knife..  Damned foam everywhere now.  This opack is turning out to be cursed, I have these strange feelings about its future.  When I threw the twisted pile of foam and tape in the bin I honestly felt the curse was lifted. One can only hope.   



More like 5 steps forward and 10 steps back with this one. 


The pack I played with the most "the 15 ah pack" is sitting on a rack ready to go on any bike and I left it in the foam box and taped it up too.  Unlike my failure with the 20ah pack the BMS can move a little bit and has no issues with the increasing pressure but I am intrigued to take a look, I should leave it alone.  But should I?


Your bike is road worthy at last.  IShame about the weather there.  We are getting much needed rain here so its a love hate relationship with the weather in QLD Australia.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 21, 2010, 09:01:57 PM
The bad weather was just temporary so she’s now longing for the road again, now it’s the kids that keep me inside. Although my fingers are itching to set-up the CA and begin to take measurement about her abilities, my guys comes first.

Took a photo in the garage this morning before I went to work. Lousy camera, lousy photographer and lousy chosen background didn’t prevent me from posting it though. But I will take a better one outside tomorrow and hopefully provide you with some data from her.

My intention was to achieve a proper looking lady, revealing as little as possible about the beast I wanted her to be. I’m quite satisfied with the result but I could have done a better work inside the saddle bag though. As I was afraid to cut the cables to short they instead went too long and everything (incl. the battery pack, the controller, the charger, a junction box and a considerable amount of cables) was just stuffed into the saddle bag because my impatience to get her out.

I liked the taping idea to keep everything together so maybe that will be my winter project.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2010, 11:16:47 PM
Very nice.  Wheren do you get a bike like this.  I am leaninfg towards this design for a new build.  I am happy with my old bike to get it going again yet I think the sadle bag is awesome.  We did this but over the cross bars.

I like to adapt things.  I used a laundry basket for a storage area on my back rack once.  It suprised me how well it worked.  I would repaet this as it served well with out failure.


I honestly wont tell you anything to do with your bike.  Its looks like an E-Triumph..  Love the classic looks.  The Triumph is a good bike to E-clone as it is lighter build than the other classic bikes.


If you use the tape its good for the prismatic cells to be under horizontal pressure.  This is ok with the tape.  The BMS with these packs troubles me so,  its like the unwanted pregnacy.  Although the BMS is a very good desgn and really keeps the packs in good balance they don't like being bent about or have thing drop on them.  Should keep them from harms way but have air to them.

I guess its cold where you are peter so the BMS would be pretty cool where every you put it.  

Is you use the tape its good for the prismatic cells to be under good horizontal pressure.  This is ok with the tape.  The BMS with these packs troubles me so.

I keep tinking of using wood block ends to keep some pressure on the cells.  Read on!

I bought these 8ah cells for very cheap and they were foil pouches in puffy metal containers, I used a G clamp and two pieces of pine squashed them back intoi shape and did some discharge and charging cycles.  They went from 5 ah cells to almost 10ah cells.  I was getting much better capacity, and the cells reqired much pressure to push back into shape  In fact I have to keep them like this.


My solution is pushing me to split the pack.  My back rack has places on both sides, and I want to balance its centre of gravity a little lower.


From the look of the pack its configured 8S2P cells blocks to an A and B plug.  I will show.

Its looking right at me.

There is a compartment in the rack for the electronics of the old Ezip Trailz the BMS fits in here perfectly.  I split the pack to either side of the rack.  Tape the cells with security cable to attact to frame under a deep layers of tape, keep dry and well protected and make a smoother contour shape with the tape for lower wind resistance.  But making sure the pressure is spread over the cells with wooden ends.  Make some nice rubber hoods for the pack and lace them up.

LOL Im looking at two

I have the wood, screws, and a circular saw.  Before I split I need the tape and to cut the blocks.  The cells are to spend no more than short while unprotected.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 22, 2010, 06:21:18 PM
Ok, here come the pictures. The 75 mm wide “FatAss” Tyre is really a good shock absorber and also is good looking. The front wheel, which came with the bicycle, has a 60 mm tyre but have to be adjusted as it wobbles at high speed. I by-passed the switch on the controller and used the switch on the throttle instead, but there was still a spark when I tried to connect the battery so I added a switch on the battery cable and mounted it in the front of the saddlebag. The Cycle Analyst is fastened in a homemade bracket and all the cables are put in shrinking hose. I cut the throttle in half to be able to customize it and make it look as the left handle. The front brake handle is mounted on the right side because its there it should be (a habit from the motorcycle) and is not connected to the controller. On the rear wheel, there’s only regen to stop the bike and it’s connected to the left handle.

I dug a hole in front of my garage with the rear wheel spinning in the gravel. ;D
 I’ve been out watching the CA up on the mountain behind my house and she took at most 1610 w. She has no problem at all on these serpentine roads. An EU-moped came up besides me at a traffic light probably thinking he was passing a bicycle but was left behind when the light switched to green. The acceleration on the flat is what thrills me the most. ;D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 22, 2010, 06:22:44 PM
More pictures
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 22, 2010, 06:23:41 PM
And finally...


Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 22, 2010, 11:45:23 PM
Wobbles in the front can often be blamed on too much weight in the rear and or an imbalance on the rear wheel.

Your rim may need to be re-trued as it may take a few rides to get any kinks out of your rim job.  

Maybe having the saddle on one side isnt helping much.

Wobbles:

Reduce rear wheel vibrartion with weights and trueing.

Balance weight on bike front and rear wheels as even as possible.  Try aim for no lower than 3 on the front/ to no more 5 on the rear, ratio.


Try this.   Standing beside the bike, hold the bike by that saddle bag, up balanced, balanced like you are riding it with no hands freely, you lean the bike left and the wheel turns left and vice versa, then  move it side to side  holding the saddle bag, shaking a little simulating a vibration, and see if you can simulate this wobble behavior in the front.  It will show itself soon.

A remedy to this is to move the pack onto the top frame cross bar and the bike may well become much better to ride.  Almost like a bicycle again.


By doing this the average weight distribution is moved to the centre of the bike meaning any vibrations with weight behind it will not use the length the frame to amplify this into your front wheel.  

That being said then tend to the front wheel.  Try get something solid, with a deep V or a strong steel rim.  Deep V should do the trick as they are pretty bend resistant.

Shes a looker and very nice, not so much as a performer or else it would look like a japanese clone with fairings and ultra alloy stuff.

But a single bug like the wobbles certainly doesnt take from her looks.  Maybe get the wheels balanced and try
controll the wobbles here first.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 23, 2010, 01:14:39 AM
Half throttles are cool, You can rig up a simple pre-charge reistor to rid of all sparks.  You just make a 1st and 2nd connection plugs.

1st connector connects a resistor (200 ohm should be good), between your pack and controller and fills up the capacitors slower, no big spark.

2nd is the main cable connection between you pack and controller.  No spark at all.

Ive fine tuned it and timed it so I see no spark at all in normal lighting conditions.  This IMO is gentle in some of the controller parts, not so much delay to the inrush.  Precharge can be done in under 100ms maybe.  I think the slower relay switch by passed with a precharhge 200 ohm resistor may even allow enough time for the currents to charge the caps with no sparks.
  
I checked one of my old high powered relays last night.  I opened her up. This relay was using precharge resistor to reduce the arc over the main contacs, and it was like new.  Not a single arc site on either contact and had been used for over six month switching those caps.

The precharge resistor can help any switch and make it more reliable, safer.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 23, 2010, 05:47:08 PM
I believe I’ve used wrong, or at least a little to strong, word. There’s no problem to drive the bike I’ve just noted that the front wheel isn’t straight and I can feel it slightly in the handlebar. I think that spoke wheels have to be adjusted after they have been used for a while and bicycle wheels are too cheap to have them stress relieved at the factory like motorcycle wheels.

The idea with a pre-charge resistor sounds good, it makes perfectly sense to slow down the charging of the capacitor. The spark wouldn’t bother me at all if I were sure that it would not drain my battery. The spark however convinced me that some electricity was flowing trough the cables even when I had turned the switch off. I tried to have them connected and released them for a few second and reconnected them again. The spark decreased but never disappeared completely that I think it should when the capacitor got fully charged. This is a non-problem now as I got the switch on the battery cable.
I still wonder though if you Mark drains your battery if you only use the switch on the controller and don’t disconnect the battery?

One thing that I didn’t like about the Infineon controller is that the regen can’t be adjusted. With the heaviness on the rear and the grip the wide tyre gives, it could definitely be more and I was calculating only to use regen as rear brake. The CA-DP (Direct Plug-in) have a few more functions than the CA-SA (Stand Alone) I have on the winter bike and was pre-calibrated to the Infineon controller which is a good thing. I must however “set the number of hall effect transitions” that the motor have, but I can’t find that information anywhere.
I will be delighted if someone can give me that number.

Shopping list:
Shimano Alivio brake disc and Shimano freewheel sprocket – cykeldennis.se
Sun Ringle DoubleWide disc rim – chainreactioncycles.com
48 V 15 Ah LiFePO4 Battery pack – pingbattery.com
Nirve Switchblade chopper and lights – beachcruiser.se
Magic Pie rear wheel – goldenmotor.com
Leather saddlebag – jafrum.com
Phil Wood heavy duty 13/14 gauge butted spokes – cycle9.com
Infineon 40 A controller and Cycle Analyst CA-DP with extension cable – ebikes.ca
Junction box, cables, cable ties, switches, shrinking hoses, etc. – clasohlson.se

Btw, the saddlebag is reinforced with an aluminium plate.


Magic Pie rules.
Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 27, 2010, 01:27:56 AM
Well my progress has been a little better.

I have installed the precharge circuit and I didn't spilt the pack.


I have installed my DC to DC converters.  One is set at 2.4v and run the red leds and the other is set to 4.4v and ran in series with the 2.4v converter to make 6.8v to run the 6.6v 5 watt leds I have here.  I should be able to run 10X5 watts leds if I want.  Thats 50 watts.  Closer to 25 watts as the heat sink gets a little warm.  

I have run some brake light switches off my calipers that short a series resistor to the red led light I have installed.  So when I pull o0n my brakes it overvolts the red leds by 0.4v.  And I am going to do the same for the front leds but operated on a front console that will initiate a higher intensity beam for poor lit road conditions..

Ive invented a new bike light bracket to thermal glue my stars leds onto.  I can just add them as I see fit and I will stop adding them when the heat sink I use is getting too hot.  This front light bracket also doubles for the CA bracket and a spot to put the high beam switxh for the front lights.

I am hoping by today my bike will be ready to slip the BMS into place and then all I need is my PIES



Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 27, 2010, 08:36:19 AM
Does the leds shine brighter when you over-volt them?
I’ve never tried this even though I’d experimented with leds for awhile. Despite the fact the regen is too weak on my bike I really would like braking light when I use it.

Do you know what it means with “set the number of hall effect transitions” that is written in the instructions to the Infineon controller.
Is it the number of hall sensors?
And if, how many are those?

Longing to see your bike.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 27, 2010, 12:15:31 PM
Yes they do.

Ive wrecked two of my leds bar one messing around.  One literally made the sink paste soft and slid off the heat sink just got a bit of debris on it and burnt out just before I could get it off the supply.  The other one I pulled its lens off pulling the diode off with it.  Doh!

But when ran on this heat sink with heat paste.

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3366;image)



At 6.8v do run exceptionally brighter and only warm to the touch. They get hot and they dim, if they get dimmer this means they are being damaged.

If you aim for the right colour temperature, anything bluish is screwed.  

Well now I have a real base for my experiment to come true all I need is the thermal paste glue and the new 5 watt leds I have on order.  And I have some aluminium reflectors coming..

To make a 30 watt light it could cost me less than $40.  I want 15 watts for street use and another 10 watts for the off road use.  Im thinking of separate lights aimed higher for this.

The low beams will have 6.6v and the high beams will have 6.8v
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 27, 2010, 12:53:50 PM
I would buy 4 of these just for the brake switch. Monkey put me on to these.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3631 (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3631)

Its this switch that's the selling point for me :D


(http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_3631_3.jpg)

See the led light can run through a 2 or 3 ohm series resistor then you just put the brake light switch over the resistor to short the resistor (not the + to -) so the led runs through the switch instead.

I though I could use the other stuff but I am running out of room in my box to put stuff.  I can make my own blinkers too but this is another project.

Because I am making each part interconnected via Anderson power poles I can make a separate box to plug in to the BMS.

The pack has Anderson poles to the BMS, the BMS connects to the main switch that switches the precharge to both DC converter and Relay-to controller terminal. The relay is connected to the BMS with blade terminals, then runs to the 25 amp thermal circuit breaker which then connects to Anderson poles to the Magic Pie.

From the Pie the negative wire will run a reverse current 30 amp diode back to the pack incase any of this circuit is opened.  We need a place for regen to return to is main power fails.

This way works and live me a long time.

I used my power hungry FRA4 relay as it ran my last bike with no problems for months and I like the contacts and general build quility inside better than the polarized latcher relays.

This bike is going to be the safe bet for the wife to ride.

I want to design my bike on the smaller pack.  Lighter frame and use the new stuff Ive got.  This is more experimental as far as I can assume.

The ecrazy controller failed on those latchers, prolly not the cause but Im not sure if they take the heat as well with the solder I blobs on them where as the  FRA4 seemed better heat tolerant.  

The 60 amp latcher have no standard connection.  I should make up a board to solder on the latching relay terminals with a pad for main power cables to go into.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 27, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
This is what I have so far.

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3368;image)

Ive just put it together from the top of my head I should do a diagram of it.

The only thing it needs is a BMS and a toggle for the DC to DC converters as a main light switch.  The CA pre-calibrated shunt will be Anderson power pole connected before all this,.

So far this all tests good.  I have complete isolation with a single switch and no power is lost what-so-ever if the main switch is off.

The only thing that does connect to the pack when the DPDT switch is off, is the pack charger. Only about 300ma will be allowed to pass through the DPDT rocker for DC to DC precharge, controller precharge and relay contact functions.   But the 15 amp rated DPDT will pass up to 5 amps with my 5amp charger.

Ohh and the thermal breaker was advised to me about a year ago by Muzza and or Duane.  The both have said to me to use these I think..
Title: Re: Hall effect transitions and overvolting LEDs
Post by: Bikemad on September 27, 2010, 02:42:28 PM
Does the leds shine brighter when you over-volt them?

Do you know what it means with “set the number of hall effect transitions” that is written in the instructions to the Infineon controller.
Is it the number of hall sensors?
And if, how many are those?

LEDs will shine brighter when overvolted, but only up to a certain point. If they are overvolted too much, they tend to emit a rather unpleasant aroma instead of light, as the epoxy body of the LED immediately above the Cathode burns and turns black.

From what I've read regarding the number of hall effect transitions, it refers to the number of poles in the motor, which appears to be half the number of magnets.
As the Crystalyte 5303 has 24 magnets (12 poles or transitions) I would assume that the Magic Pie with 56 magnets therefore has 28 poles (transitions). Unfortunately the CA can only accept a value of 1 to 14 poles maximum, but I think you should be able to successfully use the maximum pole setting of 14, so long as you set the wheel circumference to half of what it actually is, to compensate for the CA thinking that the wheel is spinning twice as fast.

And don't forget to let us know if this works successfully. ;)

Alan
 
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on September 27, 2010, 03:32:06 PM
Yes as I have the internal controller and CA, I will only be able to use the external tachometer setup.  However CA can be connected to the internal controller maybe via the yellow wire left ove, might serve as hall transition counter.

Would it be easier to just install the external counter for my internal controller?  I think so.  

As both configurations require a constant wheel size to function and both do count RPM accurately, and the extra work pulling my pie apart for this configuration can wait until I pull my pie apart and install an external controller.  


Oh and leds if you slip and give them unregulated 12v they will flash brilliantly for a second and never work again.  I love that one, testing my led heat sinks, I have a a few old heat sinks lying around, using linear regs to test my leds overvolt ability, if you tap the led negative off the batt terminals and your adj isnt connected to the LM 317t reg.  "Poof" like two wizards in a bed.  *Shakes fist*

With linear regs, always tap the load ground from your adjust feed and make adj a permanent connection,  I keep telling myself this, doh!  
The same goes with the feedback control with switcher regulators, it cant be intermitant or else you get the full Monty (volts) straight into your circuit.

As for the 2v 18,000mc leds for my back light, they only overvolt to 0.4v and show no off colour, and because they are used for brake lights are only operated overvolted for short periods.  This means you can up the brightness just a tad for braking operations.

I also filed the tops off the red lights as the lens were too focused and blinding.  This can help a little with the thermals.

Actually my red leds are prolly 2.4v but the focal lumen spread is way tight on these so they rate them down.

Edit:

Seems we have a new friend over the summer.  An Aussie tree frog.  They come in here away frome the snakes and make themselves comfy.  The cats leave them alone as we don't care for frog cruelty from any family members. They are a great treat to see and are more than welcome campers in our home rather than their nemisis the introduced cain toads.  They get relaxed so you need to watch where you walk here in summer..


(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3370;image)
  
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 28, 2010, 08:44:37 PM
This is what I have so far.


Ive just put it together from the top of my head I should do a diagram of it.


Like to see the diagram on that

Peter
Title: Re: Hall effect transitions and overvolting LEDs
Post by: Sundsvall on September 28, 2010, 09:03:52 PM

LEDs will shine brighter when overvolted, but only up to a certain point. If they are overvolted too much, they tend to emit a rather unpleasant aroma instead of light, as the epoxy body of the LED immediately above the Cathode burns and turns black.

From what I've read regarding the number of hall effect transitions, it refers to the number of poles in the motor, which appears to be half the number of magnets.
As the Crystalyte 5303 has 24 magnets (12 poles or transitions) I would assume that the Magic Pie with 56 magnets therefore has 28 poles (transitions). Unfortunately the CA can only accept a value of 1 to 14 poles maximum, but I think you should be able to successfully use the maximum pole setting of 14, so long as you set the wheel circumference to half of what it actually is, to compensate for the CA thinking that the wheel is spinning twice as fast.

And don't forget to let us know if this works successfully. ;)

Alan
 

First test: 45 km on one charge 15Ah. But I don’t know the settings on the numbers of poles yet so I’ll just have to wait and see. Will try to set this tomorrow morning before I get to work with a fully charged battery.

Impressed by your BBCode knowledge, I really like that CA thing. This forum isn’t only educating in e-bikes and English language.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on September 28, 2010, 09:21:28 PM
Seems we have a new friend over the summer.  An Aussie tree frog.  They come in here away frome the snakes and make themselves comfy.  The cats leave them alone as we don't care for frog cruelty from any family members. They are a great treat to see and are more than welcome campers in our home rather than their nemisis the introduced cain toads.  They get relaxed so you need to watch where you walk here in summer..

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3370;image)
  

I have GM’s frog style battery pack (wonder what gave it that name?). Your frog is so much cuter than mine. I’m a bit green-eyed on you. ;D

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 05, 2010, 10:09:43 PM
Well that circuit worked if I hooked up nthe feed to the charge wire to the right spot.  So I failed to make it work.  It tested fine.  I guess I am sick of ordering BMS's from Ping and game to make my own.  Just hope I make this one work.

 So much more sensitive working on such circuits with the BMS in there.  Changes the way I must do things from the old SLA days.

If youre going to do this sort of circuit the BMS must be the last thing you install.

 
Title: Re: Hall effect transitions and overvolting LEDs
Post by: Sundsvall on October 07, 2010, 06:31:38 AM

From what I've read regarding the number of hall effect transitions, it refers to the number of poles in the motor, which appears to be half the number of magnets.
As the Crystalyte 5303 has 24 magnets (12 poles or transitions) I would assume that the Magic Pie with 56 magnets therefore has 28 poles (transitions). Unfortunately the CA can only accept a value of 1 to 14 poles maximum, but I think you should be able to successfully use the maximum pole setting of 14, so long as you set the wheel circumference to half of what it actually is, to compensate for the CA thinking that the wheel is spinning twice as fast.

And don't forget to let us know if this works successfully. ;)

Alan
 

Something isn’t right with this, I,ll have to borrow a gps to calibrate the CA.

Peter
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Spacey on October 07, 2010, 10:14:11 AM


Your rim may need to be re-trued as it may take a few rides to get any kinks out of your rim job.  



He he .... you said "Rim Job"  :D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 08, 2010, 12:16:36 PM


Your rim may need to be re-trued as it may take a few rides to get any kinks out of your rim job.  



He he .... you said "Rim Job"  :D

What is this Rim Job a metaphor for exactly?  Please explains :D

LOL
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on October 08, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
monkey blocks his ears  :o
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 08, 2010, 09:57:17 PM
monkey blocks his ears  :o

Anjd while the hear no evil has his ears blocks he reads just fine.  :D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Spacey on October 09, 2010, 09:22:45 AM

WARNING:The following explanation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal%E2%80%93oral_sex) may contain sexually explicit pictures. Persons under 18 years of age must be accompanied by an adult before clicking on the link. ;)

And no it's not spam it's an explanation as to what a Rim Job is for our foreign friends. ;)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on October 09, 2010, 10:09:20 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Spacey mate we don't need to know what you do when you are not riding your MP lol

;)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 09, 2010, 10:54:05 AM
 :o :o :o :o

I can see we are making much progress here.

To be honest I thought a rim job was something else, yes similar.

My god how is that flavor a turn on?

It just somethings are best remain a mystery, but I had to ask.

Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on October 09, 2010, 02:53:03 PM
Okay, so change of subject! - Peter how's ya bike going champ?

:D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 09, 2010, 03:49:03 PM
Okay, so change of subject! - Peter how's ya bike going champ?

:D

Peters bikle is awesome.

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2502.0
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on October 09, 2010, 06:10:10 PM
Okay, so change of subject! - Peter how's ya bike going champ?

:D


The Dark Lady is a killer, the EU-mopeds don’t stand a chance. Numerous of people have tested her and all of them have been amazed on the acceleration. None of them could imagine an electric bike with such power. Unfortunately, the speed and distance are not yet confirmed, as I haven’t bought me a gps yet. The weather is another thing that keeps her inside the warm and cosy garage. I just put the studded winter tyres on my car and waiting for the snow. Pictures on the winter bike will come as soon as I got the FG 10,5 nut and is able to take her for a spin.

Peter
Citizen of the Kingdom of Sweden
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 12, 2010, 07:35:53 AM
I finally installed the 15ah pack Ill deal with the 20ah pack later.

I dug up this old Relay I got from Asian Engineer a while ago,  I tested and it was OK.


The difference is I am using s Solid State relay

SSR-3-32VDC-24-220VDC-40A


http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-10-X-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-3-32VDC-24-220VDC-40A-/390221395823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adb01f76f (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-10-X-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-3-32VDC-24-220VDC-40A-/390221395823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adb01f76f)

Its AC 220v DC @ 40 amps max.

I have round 12v on the control using .0098 ma on the control switch.  Incredible device relay.  I thermal;glued it on a big heat sink to avoid it  any temperate behavior decreasing efficiency. I noticed when testing the solid state relay you could have the volts rise with an adjustable pot.  So I though here yar, a chance for precharge so I stuck a bipolar cap over the control pins and it worked raising the voltage with more  slope.The switch is also delayed slightly when the control is removed from poser and the control drains the remained of the cap,

Ive had this  control on and off with as little as 5ma however the led in the relay isnt that bright,  


So it ready for Pie IMO.

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3468;image)

The whole point of solid state relay heat sinks are not to allow it to get warm in the first place so resistance remain low.

I figure with all my paranoia with regen I'll just set mine to 0% and be done with it.


Im excited to find out how this will perform with the Solid State Relay.  I hit 5 amp load test with it so far, was a breeze.  My bike wont be doing more than 20 amp max anyway.

Id be interested to see how much heat this SSR puts out.  

So it's ready for Pie IMO.

Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 12, 2010, 07:50:13 AM
I reseat the relay contacts cleaned them up and use both stainless steel bolts and washers.  They're bolted on very tight. and taped well into the relay  contact bore.

All this bikes need is a new controller but I want to just leave it alone now and wait for the wheels to arrive. I can just connect the pie to an Anderson power pole, *clip* and the bike hub has a decent power source.

(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2467.0;attach=3472;image)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on October 12, 2010, 05:54:44 PM
What is this thermal glue?
Is it something that leads heat?
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Leslie on October 12, 2010, 07:24:06 PM
Being a solid state relay it needs not to even get warm. I should use a largish heat sink to take any heat away before it makes too much impression on the current output.
 
I got this thermal heat transfer adhesive from dealxtreme.  It does two jobs, sticking thinks to heatsinks and transfering heat.
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Spacey on October 13, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Spacey mate we don't need to know what you do when you are not riding your MP lol

;)

I do it while I'm riding my MP.... Mrs over the handle bars  8)
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on October 13, 2010, 04:48:02 PM
good lord, that was graphic.... she sounds hot though!

haha
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: Sundsvall on October 13, 2010, 08:21:29 PM
I do it while I'm riding my MP.... Mrs over the handle bars  8)

Aren’t you afraid to get flies in your mouth when you ride with an open mouth?  ;D
Title: Re: Progress
Post by: MonkeyMagic on October 15, 2010, 09:47:13 AM
I don't think it's the flies that's the worry there Pete....

;)  haha