GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Gapy on December 29, 2009, 05:17:42 PM
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So... I plug in throttle and connect the battery (little spark occurs), no beep sound and it does not work! If I unplug the throttle I hear three beeps! It was runing for a 1min with no load-test, then I tried to ride with it and no life from it. Sometimes it tries to start but only for half a second??
Need help!!
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Gašper,
What battery are you using?
Are you able to check the battery voltage when the problem occurs?
Alan
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I use VRLA 3x12V and they are fully charged, the reeding is 38.8V... must be something else..?
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now I noticed that if I shake a cable where is connected Magic Pie and adapter for controls it beeps three times!? is it possible that the cable is damaged? connector seems fine! It only beeps if I shake it, if I leve it alone it does not beep and it does not work?
PLEASE HELP!
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It shouldn't beep just by shaking the cables, so try and look closely for a poor connection on the end of one of the wires.
Here are a few other suggestions which may help:
If you have the unused spare throttle control (thumb or twist) try plugging that in instead of the one already fitted to see if it then works.
If the throttle control doesn't make a difference, try temporarily unplugging the brake switch connector to see if it makes any difference.
Make sure the round 8 pin connector is pushed all the way in.
Are the lights on the battery meter working OK?
Alan
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One other thing you could try is to take a small flat-head screwdriver
and gently squeeze the connectors against the case.
DO NOT CLOSE THEM TIGHT, but tighten them slightly so that there
is more resistance when you plug them onto the controller.
I have found that some of the connectors do not clamp tightly
on the posts.
NOTE: The following is not easy, and you risk damaging the plug
if you are impatient. While I do this, it may not be what you should do.
My preferred method of tightening them is to use a darning needle
to gently press the tang of the connector and slide it out of the plug
one at a time, then tighten the rear part of the female connectors
with a pair of needle nosed pliers. This is more time consuming, and
to be safe you should make a note on the colors or take a photo of
the plug to assist in re-assembly. You will also need to extend the
locking tang back from where the darning needle pushed it back.
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Thanks for reply Bikemad and e-lmer!!
Note that I do not touch any of the connector, so it should not be a bad connection, maybe a cable faliure from Magic Pie?
I use throttle on the picture, wich is not original GMs, but it worked for a while, so I guess it is ok, but the lights on it do not work!!
I do not have any brake levers attached, I just have this throttle and battery-I tried to short the brake cables, but nothing happens!?
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now I noticed that if I shake a cable where is connected Magic Pie and adapter for controls it beeps three times!
When the throttle fails to function correctly, the controller will beep three times. In this situation, press and hold the cruise control button to drive your bike at half the maximum speed. The controller will automatically return to its original status when the problem is resolved.
It looks like you may have a problem with either the throttle control itself, or one of its connections.
Check the three wires connected to the throttle connector using a voltmeter to see if they are connected correctly.
The correct GM connections are as follow:
Red Wire = +5V
Black Wire = 0V (Battery -ve)
White Wire = Signal output from throttle unit (this should vary between 0 and 5V according to throttle position)
(On the GM throttle, the green wire connects to battery +ve to provide battery voltage for the battery meter.)
I do not have any brake levers attached, I just have this throttle and battery-I tried to short the brake cables, but nothing happens!
Shorting the brake switch contacts will have the same effect as operating the brake levers (if fitted) which should prevent the motor from working.
Alan
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What is the rating of your throttle?
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This is a throttle I used on my electric scooter 750W 36V. It just does not make any sence, because it was working for a while! I will try to mesure the voltage on the throttle wires and resistance of the throttle... does enyone knows what the resistance should be?
If I shorten the wires of a cruise button(green connector) after three beeps-nothing happens-it should go with a half speed??
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The readings on connector for the controller are: between black and red 0V, black and white 0.07V, red and white 0V. Maybe after the three beeps controller does not send power on throttle anymore?
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The readings on connector for the controller are: between black and red 0V, black and white 0.07V, red and white 0V. Maybe after the three beeps controller does not send power on throttle anymore?
Gapy,
I've just checked some voltage readings on mine for comparison:
Between black and red I get 4.88V
Between black and white I get 0.8V on Low/No Throttle and 3.6V on Full Throttle.
(These readings are not affected when the brake switch is operated, but the controller prevents any power from going to the motor)
When I disconnect the throttle connector, I get the expected three beeps from the Magic Pie, but I still get 4.88V between the black and red leads on the disconnected throttle connector, and 0V between the black and white leads.
The GM throttle uses a hall effect sensor and magnet instead of a potentiometer (Variable Resistor) and if you had connected the leads incorrectly on your throttle controller (or allowed the red and black to touch each other), then it's possible that a very low resistance may have overloaded and blown the Magic Pie's low voltage regulator which provides the 5V output from the speed controller.
Check for a voltage reading between the red and black leads on the pedelec connector, if it's almost 5V this would indicate that the regulator is working OK.
If this reading is also 0V, then either the 5V regulator has failed, or there's a fault somewhere in the lead (or connectors) coming from it.
I would have a good look at the pins inside the round 8 Pin connector to make sure that one of them hasn't accidentally been bent over and damaged, and don't forget to make sure the two arrows are correctly aligned before pushing the plug and socket back together again.
Out of curiosity, I also measured the voltage across the brake switch connector and obtained a reading of 4.7V with the plug disconnected. You may want to check this on yours and see if your reading is similar.
Alan
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Thanks everyone!!!!
I have now solved the problem! It was the connector of the throttle as many of you said! Thiny little red bastard was in the casing of the connector and you could not see it!! so I discover if by accident when I try to mesure the voltage again:)
Very glad to say !!!PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
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Here we go...:)
Just tested it with 36V and 48V and I will newer ride it with 36V again! Sure it is just 10km/h diffrence in top speed, but everything else is awsome!
Just need to buy a 48V 20AH LFP and life will be a lot lighter:)
Has anyone hooked up 5x12V SLA? They say that 60 volts would not harm it, buf fully charged I would get approx. 68 volts? Would anyone else try it?
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Has anyone hooked up 5x12V SLA? They say that 60 volts would not harm it, buf fully charged I would get approx. 68 volts? Would anyone else try it?
The capacitors in the speed controller are rated for 63 Volts max, anything over this will cause the capacitors to break down and eventually fail.
If you are prepared to take a chance on damaging your controller, then give it a go and see what happens, but I think I'd rather stick with the 48 Volt pack and play safe! ;)
Alan
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OK.. you have a point! Butt..... what if I would replace them with 100V and same capacitty... there should be just a few of them? I would replace only elektrolyts-would transistors take the burdon?
Just a theory-dont yell on me :P
Anyone knows if there is a 60V LFP on a market?
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http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-60V-LiFePO4-Battery-Packs/Categories
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The problem with the batteries of any kind is that they are a 'nominal' voltage.
You risk blowing out your controller if you hook up any battery over the rated voltage.
It's your motor, but it's probably not worth the risk.
You would be farther ahead getting a motor/controller that's rated for the higher voltage.
Just an opinion, but I prefer to keep the smoke inside my electronics.
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Oh my. That was quick.
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yeah yeah... I know..
If it aint broke, don't fix it....
I decided that 48V 20AH LFP will do the job just right:)
By the way-how many amps does a MP pull out of the batts?
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By the way-how many amps does a MP pull out of the batts?
So what about the current rating of the controller ? GM never announced what it was, but I can reveal after testing under a few different conditions with hard starts and up steep hills that the max current is about 28 amps. For the most part it's hard to get it to draw more than about 22 amps and if I had to put a rating on on it I'd say 25a.
Actual running voltage with the 15S pack was about 58v. Peak power draw on 60V (58V) was 1600w.
As Watts/Volts = Amps then 1600/58 = 27.586Amps, which seems about right to me.
Just out of curiosity, I did a simple stall test on my Magic Pie while it was mounted in a vice on the bench to see what the torque was like. I used a luggage weighing scale hooked into the valve hole and measured approximately 15Kg pull at the rim on 24V and 17.5Kg pull on 48V. (An effective radius of approx. 285mm.)
According to my calculations that's a torque of 42Nm@24V and 49Nm@48V, which seems very good.
On 48Volts that should give about 15Kg (147N) of force at the tyre, which should be enough to pull away on a 10% slope without pedalling.
(Assuming me, bike and batteries etc. will be approx. 100Kg.)
Alan
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Glad you got that sorted :)
Life(po4) begins @ 48V!!