Hall sensor error, all 3 sensors stuck on 2.79v?

[Jop Amsterdam]

Hello wonderful people,

my GM 5kw stopped running and my sin wave controller is giving me the 5 led blinks to indicate "HALL input is abnormal".

before it completely stopped working I had a escalating problem where if I stood still for a traffic light or such my engine would act as if it was in e-lock and I had to switch the system off and back on again through the "ignition" key before it would run again.

i now repeatedly measured my hall sensor wires and strangely all 3 seem to be more or less stuck on the same 2.79volts output.

if I spin the wheel the voltages drop slightly but never all the way to 0 and they never go up to the normal 5.

i'm at a loss to what could be the problem here, do I have a short somewhere, do I measure something wrong?

any advise/pointers would be extremely welcome.

thank you in advance,
Jop

*maybe this should have been posted in the general section? if so, can a mod please move it to there?*

[Bikemad]

If I spin the wheel the voltages drop slightly but never all the way to 0 and they never go up to the normal 5.

You cannot check the hall sensors properly if the shaft is spinning too fast, as this will simply give a moving average of the high and low voltage signals. You must turn the motor very slowly by hand, and each of the hall sensor output voltages should then switch high or low every 45 degrees of the motor's shaft rotation.

The Hall signal output voltage may not go as high as 5V even when there is a full 5V being supplied on the Red +5V wire, so anywhere between 2.5V and 5V is probably acceptable, however I would expect the low voltage to be around 0V.

If you can observe an obvious low/high switching between 0V and at least 2.5V on all three sensors (4 times per shaft revolution), I would say that the Hall sensors are working correctly.

I would also check that the Black Hall sensor wire is properly grounded by checking that it reads ~0V relative to the B- terminal on the controller.

Alan
 

[Jop Amsterdam]

hey Bikemad,

i tested them by rolling the wheel as slow over the ground as slow as possible (i have it in a 3 wheeled transport motorcycle that is heavy as f* to lift) as but since I have a planetary gearbox attached I might still have turned it too quick, I will give it another try with the wheel off the ground.

but since they all 3 do give a similar voltage i'm kind of loosing hope its a simple fix, if it is not a faulty hall sensor (or their wires/connections) is there any other know problem that could cause the abnormal hall input?

like said, at first it felt if my elock was acting up but I guess that wouldn't cause the controller to blink 5 times?

[Tommycat]

Just checking to see if you verified a solid 5vdc or so to the hall sensors supply wires? (Red and Black)





If you'd like to test the halls without the controller... using your own power source, and eliminating the controller as a possible problem. I've found this thread helpful. You will need your own 5vdc power source, and a 10K resistor.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/general-aa/39891-hall-sensor-testing-without-using-a-motor-controller



Regards,
T.C.

[Jop Amsterdam]

Yeah I did, red and black is normal, white and black is normal.

If anyway possible I would love to fix this without taking my motor and controler out.

Its possible to bench them, but these things are build in hard, check my only other thread for pictures of my bike, they are quite unique.

[Jop Amsterdam]

mhmmm,

so I build the 5vdc thing @tommycat suggested (as far as I can see) correctly, with a 5v battery (actually a 9v that wasn't completely full anymore)

- I only get about 0.9v through the system regardless to which hall sensor wire I connect it.

- and even if I measure the red I get only this 0.9v?!?

and this is on all wires a constant voltage that doesnt seem to drop or rise, whether I turn the wheel or not.

any suggestions? Should I open up the motor and see if I can see any damage on the hall sensors?

or should I just pull out my motor (it certainly seems to indicate a problem within the motor right?) and send it to my supplier?

[Tommycat]

I would first double check to make sure your power supply is up to the task. Having that low of voltage right at the voltage input wires...? Perhaps something is shorted inside. But I would check with a fully charged 9vdc battery to see if the input power can hold at a proper level. A typical motor hall sensor is a Honeywell SS41 type that can handle 4.5 to 24vdc input, with a current draw of 6.5 mA. The reason 5vdc is recommended as it is what your controller puts out. I like to use a rechargeable cell phone back-up battery rated @ 5vdc -1A. If Alan knows the actual hall sensor part, the input voltage can be looked up and verified.

See the Honeywell SS41 spec sheet here...

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/187/honeywell-sensing-ss41f-ss41g%20series-product-sheet-482865.pdf

Just to double check on your wiring...
5vdc+ goes to Red wire.
0vdc- goes to Black wire.
10K resistor connects between 5vdc+ (or Red wire) and each output leg of the sensor being tested.

Test meter's Black lead stays on 0vdc- or Black wire. With the Red lead moving to test the 5vdc input voltage, and each sensor output voltage after installation of the test resistor at each particular one as described above.

When the motor is SLOWLY turned, each output should toggle between 5vdc and 0vdc as each hall sensor toggles open and closed according to the magnet's gauss polarity.

If these tests fail again I would open up the motor and check for damaged wiring and/or connections, and the testing of each hall sensor directly to verify problem(s).
With access to the sensors, they can be switched directly with a hand held magnet if desired. Changing polarity of the magnet (side facing the sensor) to change the state of the sensor output.

[Jop Amsterdam]

tried with a fresh 9v battery, but I see nothing happening except the draining of the battery (which goes quit fast for how little i'm actually doing)

i think I hooked everything up correctly but i'm seriously out of my depth hear, so i'm very grateful for the help.

this is the drawing of how I understand the circuit now without the controler involved;

[Jop Amsterdam]

i now get more or less 9 v over all the wires, with a very small difference whether I measure before or after resistor.

do you keep the vdc+ connected to the red wire while you measure the hall outputs? (not that it seem to matter significantly for the outcome of my measurements)

[Bikemad]

Yeah I did, red and black is normal, white and black is normal.

What voltage did you have between the Red and Black wires?

The White wire is only for the temperature measurement and should have no effect on the operation of the Hall sensors.

Do you keep the vdc+ connected to the red wire while you measure the hall outputs? (not that it seem to matter significantly for the outcome of my measurements)

If you are testing the Hall sensors using the +5V supply from the controller you will obviously need to have all of the Red, Black, Green, Blue and Yellow wires connected to the controller.
However, if you are testing with an external power source (9V battery) you must not have the controller connected to any of the Hall sensor wires as this could possibly damage the voltage regulator chip for the +5V supply in the controller. 

A fresh 9V battery should not drain very quickly as it should only have around 20mA (0.02A) load on it with all three Hall sensors being powered simultaneously.
Are you sure you are using a 10k (10,000 Ohm) resistor?

The following diagram shows a typical circuit being used to test the Blue Hall sensor from a +5v supply:



In your case, you are simply replacing the +5V supply with the 9V battery, the objective of this test is to confirm that the voltage measured between the Black and Blue wires is being switched both high and low as the motor is rotated slowly.

If it has ~5V from the +5V supply  (or ~9V from the battery) but the output doesn't switch high and low as expected, then the Blue Hall sensor or its wiring must be faulty.

To test the Yellow and Green Hall sensors you would either use a separate resistor for each sensor, or simply swap the same resistor to the coloured wire that matched the Hall sensor being tested (Yellow or Green).

Alan
 

[Tommycat]

Another look at it... 







Overview: The reason you need to add the current limiting resistor is because typically the controller provides the logic voltage to the output leg.
The sensor uses the 5vdc direct power supply input only for the actuation of it's "contact", which in effect shorts the logic voltage present on the output leg (provided by the controller, or in this case thru a limiting resistor to direct input power) to ground or not. Switching from 5vdc verses 0vdc depending on magnetic gauss present. (off or on)