GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: nailsnglue on May 20, 2011, 10:44:33 PM
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Hello
My first post....
I have Magic Pie internal controller and I have the 5 beeps of death. I am assuming I am looking at a new controller. It would appear the GM controller is inferior due to overvoltage troubles. I wonder about putting in a third party controller such as an Infineon Controller 40 amp. Has anyone done this? How do I remove the old internal controller of the Magic Pie?
Any help appreciated?
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Im about to do this on sunday, can do a post for you :D
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Hello
My first post....
I have Magic Pie internal controller and I have the 5 beeps of death. I am assuming I am looking at a new controller. It would appear the GM controller is inferior due to overvoltage troubles. I wonder about putting in a third party controller such as an Infineon Controller 40 amp. Has anyone done this? How do I remove the old internal controller of the Magic Pie?
Any help appreciated?
Just make sure you get an Infineon that will match your batteries max continuous C rating or you could kill it!
I think the best battery for the pie with a 40 amp Infineon is a Ping battery 48v 20ah! (cheap enough and easy to charge)
LiPo from hobbyking.com is worth serious consideration but you have to do a lot of study on LiPo on connecting up and charging, they don't come with a bms but can output some massive currents, even from a small pack. And chargers can be expensive, but that's a once off!
Lipo is very unforgiving of mistakes, and charge discharge cycles range from 500- over 800 if you follow the simple rules of LiPo, I.E not to charge or discharge to full capacity.
But the cool thing is you can add more batteries later to make higher capacity, only thing is to charge you have to disconnect your series parallel configuration and charge in parallel!
There are better LiFePo4 batteries available too that have higher C ratings in a smaller pack. The pie is a Hungry motor on hills and on acceleration @ 40 amps it really has got some up hill pull and acceleration is fantastic! @ 80 amps it's scary! ;D
Mark
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Hello
My first post....
I have Magic Pie internal controller and I have the 5 beeps of death. I am assuming I am looking at a new controller. It would appear the GM controller is inferior due to overvoltage troubles. I wonder about putting in a third party controller such as an Infineon Controller 40 amp. Has anyone done this? How do I remove the old internal controller of the Magic Pie?
Any help appreciated?
Just make sure you get an Infineon that will match your batteries max continuous C rating or you could kill it!
I think the best battery for the pie with a 40 amp Infineon is a Ping battery 48v 20ah! (cheap enough and easy to charge)
LiPo from hobbyking.com is worth serious consideration but you have to do a lot of study on LiPo on connecting up and charging, they don't come with a bms but can output some massive currents, even from a small pack. And chargers can be expensive, but that's a once off!
Lipo is very unforgiving of mistakes, and charge discharge cycles range from 500- over 800 if you follow the simple rules of LiPo, I.E not to charge or discharge to full capacity.
But the cool thing is you can add more batteries later to make higher capacity, only thing is to charge you have to disconnect your series parallel configuration and charge in parallel!
There are better LiFePo4 batteries available too that have higher C ratings in a smaller pack. The pie is a Hungry motor on hills and on acceleration @ 40 amps it really has got some up hill pull and acceleration is fantastic! @ 80 amps it's scary! ;D
Mark
I'm loving Marks enthousiasm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
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I say go with a Kelly and 60 amps 72 volts! OH YEAH! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
DiD I mention LiPo? ;D
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Im about to do this on sunday, can do a post for you :D
Sunday has been and gone - how did you go?
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Oooooh the man with the follow up skills !
Pressure is on Gingey :D
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Im about to do this on sunday, can do a post for you :D
Sunday has been and gone - how did you go?
Ginge actually coverted one of my pies from internal to external on Sunday. We spent the whole day in my garage with the limited time we had modifying my two bikes. In the rush we forgot to take photos. Ginge remembered half way through the day by which time it was a bit too late. :(
we swapped a 24v mini motor for a 36v and laced it into a wheel for my dual mini motor bike.
Removed my rear pie which was confidently converted by Ginge from internal to external magic controller.
He set up my Cycle analyst ready for a secret limiting switch
All I need now is a 45amp Infineon controller. :)
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Aw huys im really sorry, as andrew stated we forgot......truth was, I was a bit sick and got lacing his hub wrong and all sorts of catastrophe.....
Anyway, I will do a post for you, ill try and match up some pics for you also, at the weekend maybe ?
Needed are
shrinkwrap / soldering iron and solder
5 small cables for hall sensor wiring
3 large cables for phase
Tea ( lots of)
Sandwiches ( lovingly provided by Andrews wife)
Strange welsh radio ;D
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He set up my Cycle analyst ready for a secret limiting switch
Please, tell me more about this limiting thingy!
All I need now is a 45amp Infineon controller. :)
Can I recommend LYEN edition infineon controller? http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17191&p=251159&hilit=+12+fet#p251159
this is the 45 AMP "underclocked" version - meaning you will have "over engineered reliability"
I have the 9 fet version on my pie and it's working great at around 30A http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16998&hilit=9+fet. Also, a point to mention is the communication with Ed Lyen in SF USA - it is number one! (i.e. the opposite of GM China)
I had a problem with the cruise control wire being too short and he sorted it out immediately. he has a similar standing on the ES forum - well respected.
It's worth paying the extra for the cruise and the USB programming cable - he has custom software to program it.
He also does a "three speed limiter switch" which turns down the amps on the fly - and this AMP setting is programmable.
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Thanks for that Magzy. As the LYEN version is sensorless will the bike need a pedal start with this controller?
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lyen does sensored and sensorless....mu understanding is that you don't need to pedal, due to a chip in the controller which sends timing pulses, but I could be wrong....hell ill get the man himself to answer it :D
I personally have the 12 Fet standard 72V sensored edition.....you have tried this puppy on the donkey going up the hill...
Mr Lyen, can you comment a little more about the functionality of the sensorless ( for direct drive only)
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Thanks for that Magzy. As the LYEN version is sensorless will the bike need a pedal start with this controller?
my 9 fet version is sensored (hall sensors that plug straight in to the MP hall sensor socket)
Acceleration an hill climbing is dramatically improved - top speed is only about 1mph faster.
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Magzy, have you programmed the controller for 120% setting ?
If you don't have a 3 way switch, jsut program each of the 3 settings to 120%
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how I missed it?
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how I missed it?
nobody knows........
:o
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Sorry Mr lyen is a little busy at the mo, however confirmed to me that the sensorless is not pedal first and is an immediate start controller
although its not compatible with the geared motors
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I am wondering if the Infineon controller will have any effect on engine noise. I've heard that the noise may be due to the communication between the controller and the engine. I am skeptical that this is the cause. But, it would be good to hear from someone with Infineon controller experience.
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I am wondering if the Infineon controller will have any effect on engine noise. I've heard that the noise may be due to the communication between the controller and the engine. I am skeptical that this is the cause. But, it would be good to hear from someone with Infineon controller experience.
are you talking in relation to the Pie?
Well the pie is quiet enough at speed but it has a satisfactory growl on take off! ;) There is a lot of current being dumped into it, with my 40 amp anyway! It will be loud enough when climbing steep hills, at slower speeds, but it never bothered me!
As regarding Lyen's controller not being compatible, I thought all the new infineons could drive the geared motors?
Mark
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Possibly, but I think there are problems with specific motors, due to high rpm creating a lot of interference....I asked lyen about a month ago when buying a mini monster and he said they didnt work......maybe they work but problematic...
Will have to study more, as ever emails are rush rush rush
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As regarding Lyen's controller not being compatible, I thought all the new infineons could drive the geared motors?
I seem to recall reading about juddering caused by a timing problem with high motor rpm on the sensorless units, which is why they are not recommended for geared motors.
It will drive geared motors at low speed without problem, but the timing problems start to occur as the rpm increase too much.
Alan
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I have the Golden Motors Joy Ebike. The motor is not as powerful and the pie. But, it still manages to make a baby jet engine noise when I use the throttle. I need a silent motor. I was advised on another forum to switch out the controller. Golden Motors uses an external controller on this build, so switching it out would not be a problem. But, the question is would that fix my noise issue.
are you talking in relation to the Pie?
Well the pie is quiet enough at speed but it has a satisfactory growl on take off! ;) There is a lot of current being dumped into it, with my 40 amp anyway! It will be loud enough when climbing steep hills, at slower speeds, but it never bothered me!
As regarding Lyen's controller not being compatible, I thought all the new infineons could drive the geared motors?
Mark
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I have the Golden Motors Joy Ebike. The motor is not as powerful and the pie. But, it still manages to make a baby jet engine noise when I use the throttle. I need a silent motor. I was advised on another forum to switch out the controller. Golden Motors uses an external controller on this build, so switching it out would not be a problem. But, the question is would that fix my noise issue.
I doubt changing the motor will make any difference, I had a 1000 watt conhismotor, dare I say that name on this forum (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_lol.gif)
I changed the controller on that motor, not because of noise issues but because I fried my old controller, their old regen controller was bad! anyway it still made noise at a certain speed!
Mark
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I found that the more power you put through the pie, the more noise it made...
My lyen controller makes it really sing :D
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I seem to recall reading about juddering caused by a timing problem with high motor rpm on the sensorless units, which is why they are not recommended for geared motors.
It will drive geared motors at low speed without problem, but the timing problems start to occur as the rpm increase too much.
Alan
I think one of the guys over at endless-sphere had a problem with an infineon causing juddering, in the end it turned out he had to increase the phase current and it cured it!
I thought the newer ones had no problems now?
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well ive ordered my MAC 1000W rear..freewheel here we a comin... :o 8)
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well I've ordered my MAC 1000W rear..freewheel here we a comin... :o 8)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_cool2.gif)
What batteries did you get?
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aw man, im still running my homebrew 18650 packs......ill get to lipo one day....keep the faith my man ;D
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aw man, im still running my homebrew 18650 packs......ill get to lipo one day....keep the faith my man ;D
They are li-ion? and 1 c?
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they are 2C 18650 13S8P
i like to use 2 of them on the average journey, 3 if its a biggie :)
15Kgs of batt though.........but 25 miles gives me only a 2V drop :)
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they are 2C 18650 13S8P
i like to use 2 of them on the average journey, 3 if its a biggie :)
15Kgs of batt though.........but 25 miles gives me only a 2V drop :)
15 kgs (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_what.gif)
You will want more than a freewheeling motor to haul that around (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/sSig_heeheehee.gif)
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well I've ordered my MAC 1000W rear..freewheel here we a comin... :o 8)
That was a bit sneaky! :D now I see whay you bought that monster mini controller from Lyen :)
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well I've ordered my MAC 1000W rear..freewheel here we a comin... :o 8)
That was a bit sneaky! :D now I see whay you bought that monster mini controller from Lyen :)
Nah, im just trying to learn...i got someone who wants a kit, but part of the journey is a crapper of a hill...i think its DD territory only but....at the same time I get to expand my learning, and be able to provide the right solution in the right situation.....and as I think electric bikes are becoming bigger and bigger, time to get in on the ground floor....
100 Miles now on the 500W mini motor burnout :)
As for the mini monster, his controllers are just damn class...that little monster is set for default of 1600Watts !!!!! and I have the programmer and compatible connections, what else would I use ?? ;D :o...id use it on the bathtub if I could
Have you re-wired your pie yet ??...waiting for an artsy moment ?
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Have you re-wired your pie yet ??...waiting for an artsy moment ?
It took 4 years for Michael Angelo to paint the sistine chapel, don't rush me :D
You/me might be waiting little longer for the specialized bike to be put back on the road. Firstly there is the the rear wheel disc cover, I'm also currently designing a bespoke bike frame bag that will be the exact size of the frame space to allow space for more battery power, cables and controller. Finally there will be the wiring. It could be another month or more :(
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I opened this post back in May this year with a new Magic Pie and 5 beeps of death internal controller after ebraking on a fast downhill run with regen set high.
So just to bring you up to date:
I purchased a 40amp infineon Controller from ebikes.ca. It arrived the other day and I began the process of change over. It was simple enough but time consuming. I eventually worked out how to get the wheel apart, the circlips, the cover on both sides (one side stuck until I just pulled it from the middle). Rewiring job scaryily tight in that slot. I used as heavy guage as possible. Prior to the job I read that the yellow phase should be swapped for the blue phase but in my case doing this actually caused the wheel to spin slow and groan. SO for me it was a straight colour change (simple enough). I soldered on the inside and I am currently searching for some nice plugs for the outside. I checked the hall sensors with my meter for good measure. A floor test of the wheel with new controller causes it to spin up nice. Thanks very much to that poster. Application of a bit of load via brakes reveals a nice deep growl and plenty of power.
Note: the only wiring difference I noticed is in the throttle where -ve and control wire are around the wrong way.
Is it possible to get the battery meter to work or do I have to purchase cycle analyst.
Happy now!
I am just curious for others who have done this - where did you put the controller? screw to top of battery cover?
40amp Infineon controller - I thought this came with cruise control but holding the throttle open for seven seconds does not cause it to hold. Any thoughts?
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Is it possible to get the battery meter to work or do I have to purchase cycle analyst.
The battery gauge should still work if you have the green wire connected to battery +ve and the black wire connected to battery -ve.
Take a look at this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2094.0) for further information if you want to fine tune the battery gauge to suit your battery voltage.
Alan
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strangely mark, ive looked at the lipo...not much weight saving if you are talking the same ah, allowing for safety margins etc..probably only save a kilo or so....( which I could save by just not eating my second breakfast lol)
granted though, peak power is there
Ill give it a go though...whats your ebay link for the lipo, I was gonna build out of zippy 5000mah 22v
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strangely mark, I've looked at the lipo...not much weight saving if you are talking the same ah, allowing for safety margins etc..probably only save a kilo or so....( which I could save by just not eating my second breakfast lol)
granted though, peak power is there
Ill give it a go though...whats your ebay link for the lipo, I was gonna build out of zippy 5000mah 22v
Hey Gingey, Bikemad put me onto Hobby King (http://www.hobbyking.com) a while ago, I haven't looked back since!
Actually Bikemad - you probably have cost me a fair bit of coin making me aware of those guys! lol
Fair enough you can get some good ebay deals, but alot of junk is there too :( I'd prefer to buy from Hobby King just because I know they are new, unused and have not been sitting in a box/shelf for a long time.
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yup, been browsing there :)....fancy a 20 ah pack @66V.....saving coins...
what charger did you go with ?