GoldenMotor.com Forum

General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: biohazardman on June 15, 2008, 04:19:46 AM

Title: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on June 15, 2008, 04:19:46 AM
     Well thought I should post a few pics and some info on my bike build with the Golden motor rear hub and Foxx Power 36V 10AH lifePO4 battery.  Spent a couple of months researching the electric bike idea including reading all the posts here and elsewhere that I could find on the subject finally deciding on the Golden Rear hub motor.  Rear hub because the bike has an aluminum frame with front suspension and thought I was going to mount the battery in the frame.

Guess I will start with the motor kit it’s a 500 watt kit with the upgraded Regen controller ordered it here   http://www.goldenmotor.com/   $396
Although communication by e-mail was a bit slow now and then it did happen and the motor arrived promptly after payment.

     Packing was a bit weak and both sides of the axle including the wires were punched through the Styrofoam and single layer box and sticking out. The box was beat up pretty good but I found the contents to be in good shape and complete although there was no documentation of any kind. The upgraded controller was not included in the original package but arrived separately a couple days later again with no documentation.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/hubkitsm.jpg)

The rim installed on the hub had spokes tightened in some hap-hazard way.  Some spokes were extremely tight others were very loose so I went to work on truing up the wheel. After about an hour I realized this was a waste of time as, although the side to side wobble was easy enough to deal with, the rim had a large flat spot covering several spokes in length rendering the wheel pretty much useless as far as I was concerned.  I informed Golden motors of the problem with the wheel but thanked them for the kit just the same.  I later asked for a few spoke nipples as they were messed up when the wheel arrived.  I never received a reply from Golden Motors for any of my e-mails once the kit and controller had arrived.
           
 I took the wheel to the local bike shop and asked for a strong double walled rim to be installed on the hub. Picked up the hub with the new wheel a few days later $77.  It looked great so had them build me a front to match it with some 12 gauge spokes and a decent hub to the tune of $90.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/hubandwheelsm.jpg)
 
When the hub axle nuts were spun up to the frame, for the first time, I noticed some kind of wobble in them.  The thread line to the face of the bolt was not 90 degrees. They would not lay flat on the bike no matter how tight they were so were replaced with an aircraft/ny-lock type nut from the local hardware shop. Now things sat square against the frame and would not work loose in the near future.
 
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/evilnut.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/Goodnut.jpg)

Replacing the left nut was quite involved. It was necessary to remove the pins/terminals from the plugs, most pins in plugs have a release pin that can be bent up with a very small screwdriver to release them, from the wiring plug (see red circles on above linked pic).  I  used colored sharpie pmarkers to mark their orientation before removal.  I could then route the wires through the new nut and into a battery box I had picked up. Upon removal of the terminals from the hall sensor plug I noticed that all of the wires had been carefully soldered in place(see yellow circle in above linked pic).  Even though I would likely have crimped them first then soldered I was impressed by someone’s attention to this important detail.  I cut off the hub wheel power wire female bullet connectors, large gauge yellow, blue and green wires.  Then removed the connector from same wires on the stock controller I received with the kit as it was a direct plug in to the wheel connector plug. Next I crimped and soldered the correct spades on the three wires and pushed them into the plug removed from the original controller listening for that all important click as they locked into place. Now I could plug the regen controller wires directly into the stock wheel hub, inside my new battery box, and have matching connectors that would lock together.
   
Once the wheel kit had arrived I contacted Foxpower here http://www.atenenergy.biz/Foxx%20Specs.htm  Now on E-bay also to purchase one of their 36V battery packs.  I received no confirmation on my payment or order and a week later I e-mailed them about this and received my first reply in another week stating they would ship the battery out tomorrow.  A week after that I contacted them again as I had been told I would receive a shipping conformation and tracking number. This time they replied promptly and said they would ship it out the same day. The battery arrived a few days afterwards in a beat up box with no documentation of any kind. Contents were undamaged but packing once again could have been better.  I e-mailed them about the documentation and the reply was prompt with a very helpful link to the information I requested on the net.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/battinbox.jpg)
 
With the wheel installed the battery and controller tucked neatly into the modified tool box it was time for a test ride.  I plugged the battery connecter into the Regen connecter there was a flash and pop inside the connecter.  Scared me at first but found it to be a normal part of the plug in procedure every time. First ride was 16+ mile round trip on varied terrain with several fairly steep but short hills and lots of very gradual ups and downs with a several hour stop in the middle.  To say I was impressed would be an understatement. I managed just over sixteen miles total on my first charge and still had a measured voltage of 36.1 before I recharged. The regen took a bit of getting used to as whenever the throttle is released it kicks in hard to slow you down to less than a crawl and it is difficult to pedal against.  I have since hooked up a switch so I can change back and forth from Regen to coast mode when I wish although a complete stop seems to be necessary to change from one mode to the other. This is a shame as I was planning just to run the Regen as an electric brake with a momentary switch. Just a note to remind those of you installing these types of hubs watch the spoke tension closely I tightened mine ¼ turn at 8,12, 25 and again at 50 miles.  Not doing so could result in major damage to the rim and or your body if you crash cuz of it.

    I now have 200+ miles on the bike with no problems and fairly consistant trip lengths so says my computer.  I have killed the battery a couple of times with a measured voltage in some cells of near 2.8V. I have also added a 12V 20 amp fuse and a 12V 30 amp switch at the battery.  These two mods have worked out well causing no problems. Did I mention fun? ;^)
In summing things up both Golden Motors and Foxpower delivered a decent product for a good price.  Would I do it again? Well unless I can find a better product for a better price I will continue with these companies as I know they will eventually get me what I order and with a bit of werq things will be great.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/e-bike1.jpg)

 



Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: philf on June 15, 2008, 10:57:33 AM
Thanks for sharing that...

I'm just wondering a couple of things, though...

Where in the world are you?  I've installed three kits so far (all of which I ordered from a Canadian importer), and all of them simply had "www.goldenmotor.com" etched into the clear aluminum around the spoke flange.  None of the Chinese print in the black painted surfaces we see here.

Seeing the picture you posted of the final result, I had a sense of deja vu.  Then the penny dropped...  "I've seen that bike before, and recently", I said... 

Yup, a quick visit to "www.goldenmotor.com", and there it is on the top of the opening page.  How'd that happen?  Or did they just take some license and go ahead and grab it from photobucket without your permission?

Cheers!
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on June 16, 2008, 05:42:23 AM
  I really had no idea what you were talking about till I clicked the GM link you posted.  Yup looks like they used my Pic so now I'm famous or is that infamous?  They didn't say anything to me about it but about a week ago I did send them that pic in an e-mail with the positive things about the purchase as well as a list of things that could be better. They did use my first name in naming the pic anyway.  Not a problem as far as I'm concerned. I'm in the US Portland, Oregon to be exact.  This is my first purchase of a GM motor it came to me that color as you see in the other pics.  The printing you speak of is actually a part of the casting that is raised and is not painted so aluminum colored. Looks cool but I have no idea what it says as yet. A bit dirty from the miles it seems.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/hubletters.jpg
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: nitecheck on June 16, 2008, 11:12:49 AM
Hi - Bio.

Nice kit out. I'm currently building a "stealth" e-bike with the front hub version of the GM 500w motor. I like to keep the controller cool (the Oz summer is very hot - generally - but with climate change a foot - who know's which way things will go). As I am running in stealth mode the bike will resemble a standard bike. I do have a question regarding heat - does you controller (I have the same) get hot being enclosed in the case? I'm using a rear bag rather than a box & for the above reasons mounting the controller in the open is really not an option - I might have to look at running an external vent (mini scoop) to get air flow across the heat sink - if does get hot.

Thanks
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on June 16, 2008, 07:26:39 PM
I thought that I might need to vent the controller also but have checked it many times it barely even gets warm.  Temps thusfar have only reached the 70s though so time will tell.  I will post on this again when it gets warmer.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on June 29, 2008, 06:55:18 AM
More info as promised on the GM 500w with Foxpower 10ah Lifepo4 battery and Regen controller.  I have near 500 miles on it now and have grown to love the regen for it's near perfect control of speed.   It slows you down a little if you let off the throttle a little but allot when you let off all the way.  Steep hills with stop signs at the bottom are not a problem and I seldom use the caliper brakes except in very low speed stops or to keep from rolling at lights. Tried it out in the mid 90 degree weather today the controller temp hit 106 degrees measured in the unvented metal box for a short two mile trip on level ground.  It hit 115-120 max deg F, warmer to the touch than the measured 106`F but not uncomfortable to touch at the end of a steep 100 yard hill with near stall speeds at the top after an 8 mile trip at max speed, most of the way, to warm it up.  So I will likely leave the battery/controller box as it is and not worry about venting as that’s about as hot as it normally gets around here. Only fault I see is that it is a bit slow to respond at power up and from a stop. It takes three or four seconds before the throttle will respond from a power up situation and a couple to get going from a stop.
The motor itself is not a hill climber but still pulls even at near stall speeds and never heats up. The battery norm is 18 to 20 miles per charge and that includes some short 100 yard to quarter mile fairly steep hills which I pedal up.  The kind I would not attempt, only avid cyclists do, were it not for the motor. This also includes me working the pedals a short distance to accelerate from stops and make it look like I am pedaling to other cyclists now and then. ;^)  In other words I try to look healthy even though I am old and have a beat up body and am not in to good of shape as my name hints.  The BCO charger has werqed well thus far and charged the batteries to within a tenth of a volt in most cases then shut down to a trickle as needed afterwards as advertised. It takes four to five hours to charge a very depleted battery.
   After tightening the spokes four times it seems as though they are not going to stretch anymore. I was beginning to wonder.  The heavy, wide double walled rims are keeping their shape despite more than a few nasty bumps and holes taken at higher speed than I would have liked. The  Bontrager Hardcase tires have been through more glass, road debris and potholes than I would like to admit. I did pick up a half inch long nail and so had one flat thus far but it waited till I got to the front door to go flat. 
So all and all everything has met or actually surpassed my expectations with the exception of getting the parts together and with all the therapy I had cuz of that I am a better person now?  ;^) Hope this is helpful to some as many of the prior posts here were to me.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Grunchy on July 04, 2008, 01:51:32 AM
Have you considered Green Tyre puncture-proof tires?  www.greentyre.com

I bought a set for my road bike & do really appreciate the peace-of-mind.  It isn't an e-bike yet but I (used to) do long commutes on it on fairly narrow roads and did not want a puncture, ever.  The ride is a little harsher especially with the thinner size 700 wheels, and rolling resistance is not quite as good, but that shouldn't make much difference with motor drive helping out.

If/when I motorize my bike I'm certain to put a set of green tyres on it!
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 05, 2008, 08:06:36 AM
That is a good thought considering all the glass and road debris where I ride most.  If I have to much trouble in the way of flats I will check into it further.  Thus far though only the one flat though so I am impressed with what I have for the moment.  Thanks for the link I will keep it in case it is needed as I hate to be patching tires on any regular basis..
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: JinbaIttai on July 13, 2008, 01:44:50 AM
Nice looking build, I hope mine ends up looking as clean and stealthy as yours.
How is the weight balance with the rear hub and the batteries over the back tire?
Have you done any trips to compare regen-braking versus none?
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 13, 2008, 03:53:32 AM
Thanks.  I do not notice the weight in the back at all except when mounting or dismounting. Even balancing at traffic lights I seldom notice unless I get over to one side to far and then it's all I can do to keep the bike from going down.  I have not done any full battery tests without the regen.  The regen is way good at slowing me down and a confidence builder for getting around in town as I do not have disc brakes and it rains here allot.  Next build will have disc brakes so will try it without the regen then.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Dave on July 13, 2008, 07:38:56 PM
Nice looking build, I hope mine ends up looking as clean and stealthy as yours.
How is the weight balance with the rear hub and the batteries over the back tire?
Have you done any trips to compare regen-braking versus none?

Just to chime in with biohazardman on the weight issue; I have my bike set up similarly to his, with the rear hub motor and batteries & controller in a bag on top of the rear rack. Like biohazardman, I notice the weight when mounting & dismounting, and also in out-of-the-saddle riding, which is pretty much not an option with that much weight that high over the bike's center of gravity. I tried it going up a hill once, and that was more than enough to keep me from doing it again!  :o
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 13, 2008, 08:19:52 PM
I only have 13lbs of weight on the rack and then the motor.  Expect you have more?  No problems in and out of the saddle riding up hills until I am pretty much near stopped.  If I I'm not at the top by then I might have to bail, as I have an injured arm and could not catch the bike without further injury, and that could pose a problem for sure. Has not happened to me yet but have one hill that I barely make it up.  Sometimes when if I feel I'm not up to it I bypass said hill and take a different/longer route.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 17, 2008, 08:44:45 PM
 
  Bought a 48 Volt Regen controller from Golden Motors arrived in about a week instead of a month like the kit. It was very well packaged.   Good thing to cuz the box was pretty beat up.  Also e-mailed Philip about the changes that are needed to make the system run on the 48v. Reply came in about 24hrs he said controller and battery are all that is needed to run 48v.  I am not sure of the difference in the motors as he offers a 36 and 48v on the GM site should have asked about that also.
  Another 100+ miles on the kit and Lifepo4 battery and no problems with the exception of loose Ny-lock axle nuts.  Got a torq bar off of e-bay will install it with the 48 volt controller as soon as I get more batts.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: ahend on July 18, 2008, 01:03:16 AM
biohazardman,

What would you say your top speed is with the 36V regen controller? I have read that it impairs the top end slightly. Do you think the regen controller is adding much to your range? I'm sure it varies with use.

Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 18, 2008, 05:57:39 AM
Top speed is 20mph + or - 2mph for road and wind conditions.  I never installed the stock controller so don't know what it might have been otherwise but likely it is limited to near 20mph at 36v also.  I turned off the Regen for awhile but like the braking it provides as I don't have disk brakes so it went back on.  Don't have a bicycle computer so don't know what I actually get back from using it.  I would not expect allot of return with the kind of biking I usually do.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: ahend on July 18, 2008, 09:15:13 AM

That sounds right in line with the standard controller that I have. I'm running 21mph on level ground with a fresh battery. I put in enough energy to maintain 23.5mph in the same conditions.

I run with an electronic throttle lock that kicks out when I touch the brake. What would happen if I did this with a regen controller, essentially dropping the throttle signal to 0V immediately? I’m assuming that would give full regen input. How quickly would it slow to a stop from full speed?

Thanks
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 18, 2008, 01:14:55 PM
I really can't answer that question 100% cuz things just did not werq the way I thought they would when I installed a momentary switch to the regen wires.  Nothing happened when I pressed and held it when moving but if I was at a complete stop then it changed state from no regen to regen all the time.  While in regen mode though letting go of the throttle abruptly will cause heavy braking but not charge the batts from what I have read. It's not going to put you over the bars but with no throttle a steep hill that usually takes me to 30mph drops me to about 20mph. I would estimate that the regen is like near 1/3 but less than 1/2 of your regular bike brakes. Letting off slowly and not all the way will have a bit less braking affect but will supply some return of electrons to the battery. I doubt it would be allot though. I do not even have my brake switches hooked up but do have a power switch handy if I need it. I'm riding around in or on the outskirts of town so there are cars and people to deal with quite often.  The regen works well it’s nice having a brake and throttle in the same place makes it easy to control yer speed always.   Hope my ramblings are of some use to you.  I'll test it out the way you are asking and let you know later today.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: C1 on July 18, 2008, 05:49:26 PM
biohazardman: How much did that 36v Foxxpower battery cost you, and is it 10ah or 20ah? There's no prices or checkout on their website, did you call them up and pay by credit card? Does the battery come from China or the USA?

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm very interested in that Foxx battery! ;D
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 18, 2008, 07:52:56 PM
I purchased the 10ah 36v pack for $350 a balancing charger and shipping brought it to $450. They answered my e-mail back then so made the sale.  Things have reversed now and Golden motors gave me a quick reply last week.  My last e-mail to Foxpower did not get a response.  I used Paypal for the purchase. Communication with Foxpower was not all that great and it took the battery near a month to get here so I was beginning to wonder. It ended up coming from China like all the rest although it is a good quality battery and werqs very well.    My purchase of the Golden motor kit was easier and communication was somewhat better.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on July 19, 2008, 07:04:28 AM

That sounds right in line with the standard controller that I have. I'm running 21mph on level ground with a fresh battery. I put in enough energy to maintain 23.5mph in the same conditions.

I run with an electronic throttle lock that kicks out when I touch the brake. What would happen if I did this with a regen controller, essentially dropping the throttle signal to 0V immediately? I’m assuming that would give full regen input. How quickly would it slow to a stop from full speed?

Thanks


OK did the test with the regen at about 20mph, on level ground, I let the throttle snap to the off position and it stopped all 260lbs of the bike and me in roughly 80ft.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: ahend on July 20, 2008, 12:58:33 AM
Thanks for the info biohazardman. It seems to me that the regen controller makes a fairly effective resistive braking system but based on other bits and pieces I have read, it does not add a whole lot of energy back into your pack. Perhaps there is just not enough inertia in normal riding situations.

As for the mile an hour difference in top speed, that would be hard to chalk up to just the controller.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on August 28, 2008, 05:52:24 AM
At 700+ mile range and the 13 gauge spokes, included in the GM kit, are beginning to break when I hit some of the larger bumps.  Just broke two spokes so far but have some 12gauge ordered.  I would love to have some 12 gauge stainless though but have not been able to find them for the GM and 26inch wheel. Used to do fine even went off a few curbs and over a street sign, the folding saw horse kind, somebody folded and threw in the middle of the street for me one night.  Building a decent LED bike light so that doesn't happen again although it was pretty exciting for a few seconds anyway.  I installed the torque arm a couple weeks back crummy hose clamp for now and used locktight on the axle nuts nothing has come loose since.  Got hold of one of the heavy duty kick stands with two legs as the other was a bit wobbly.  Had to file the hole on the bike out and make it a slot so I could move the new stand out about 1/4 inch so it would not hit the tire. Looks like the stand is a bit high and I will have to take care of that soon but it is strong and I don't worry if it will hold the bike up as I used to with the old one.
        (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/kickstandandtorquebar.jpg) 
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 01, 2008, 07:56:19 AM
Thanks for the info biohazardman. It seems to me that the regen controller makes a fairly effective resistive braking system but based on other bits and pieces I have read, it does not add a whole lot of energy back into your pack. Perhaps there is just not enough inertia in normal riding situations.

As for the mile an hour difference in top speed, that would be hard to chalk up to just the controller.

The braking and speed control is great for the city.  I read an interesting post on the ES forum bout someone burning up their controller and damaging their LifePo4 batteries with the regen.  He went down a long hill with fully charged bats and things fried.  Likely our batteries can't take what is available from the regen.  But still it remains the same, as you said, there is not much of a return energy wise.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 15, 2008, 04:15:09 AM
At 1K miles no more spokes have broken still running around two down though. Would like to replace them all with the 12gauge stainless if I could find the right length.  The freewheel is dead it's been slipping under high loads and up hills for near a hundred miles now.  I am riding with no chain or derailleur’s installed on the bike as I am looking to replace the spokes, freewheel and deraileur all at the same time. Really don't want to pull the rear wheel twice as it is more than difficult for me to do. Have to give the bike a push to get started and acceleration is poor till I'm across the street or so then it picks up well. Managed 19 miles on the battery pack yesterday this way.  Had to walk up a couple of hills, I usually ride up, only about two blocks total though.
Saw a post by Geoff on the ES about a water proof remote throttle so wanting mine at least water resistant I removed the stock throttle and cut it down.  Then I put it in a box and mounted it under the battery.  Picked up a new pair of gripshifts for the five speed gear I now have in the rear, because of the GM motor, and the other for the new remote throttle. The front deraileur had already been removed as it was never used.  The front derailleur gripshift therefore had the detent spring removed and I hooked the cable to the old cut down throttle via custom made cable clamp affair.  I werqs very smooth and there are no wires routed to the front of the bike making it even more stealthy. Here are a few pics. Having a half pipe left hand throttle was annoying for only a few miles now it is normal.  If you really want to see how quiet these motors are, how far you can go on a charge or how they climb hills just pull your chain off.  Watch out though as it is not a quick thing to cross the street.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/throttleshaft.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/throttleinbox.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/throttlefrtsm.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/handlebarriver.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/bikeriverrtsm.jpg)



Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: OneEye on September 17, 2008, 03:43:51 PM
Extremely clean installation there Biohazardman!  Sad to hear about the dead freewheel.  How difficult will the replacement be?
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 17, 2008, 09:54:29 PM
Thank you I tried to keep it as clean as I could and wanting keep the trottle dry helped allot. Have replaced freewheels before when I had two good arms, still have the tool, it was not that difficult then.  Will be a bit rough just to get the wheel off and more so to get the freewheel off without hurting myself.  Been waiting for a bit more strenth but it doesn't come so will figure out how an easier way or have it done as I love to ride.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Leslie on September 17, 2008, 11:07:18 PM
That is one noice looking EV.  I want Lifepo4's :(

The wife say NOOOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 19, 2008, 06:13:00 AM
I think the wife need something before you get Lifepo4s?  ;^)  Good luck
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: OneEye on September 19, 2008, 05:25:36 PM
Perhaps you can convince her of a net savings long term after a few SLA replacements.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2008, 07:05:23 PM
Perhaps you can convince her of a net savings long term after a few SLA replacements.

SLA's in 18ah config should last between 3 to 5 years, plenty long enough.

I think the wife need something before you get Lifepo4s?  ;^)  Good luck



lol I already been there and she says NOOOOOO!

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/triplets.jpg)

You have no idea the hell these gals create.  ::)

I'm ashamed to show the room they have destroyed in under a year.

They pulled all the paint off walls, destroyed 3 cots, pulled up the carpet, paint crap all over the paper lining on the plaster (whats left of the wall) and its like cement to remove .  Put a hole in the wall somehow I don't know! And they made it grow a big enough for them to hide in...

 :'(
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 21, 2008, 08:07:20 PM
Destructive little girls they are!! Hard to believe they could do all that but it is probly in their genes? ;^) LOL Mine were a few years older when they ran through the house chasing each other with a bottle of baby powder that's upstairs and down. On the walls floor ceiling just about everywhere.  At least they were old enough to clean it up afterwards anyway.  Got to love those teenage girls.  I had six of them with me for awhile as a single dad and worked multiple jobs at the same time. Lived through it and have many fond memories of the insanity.  Just keep an eye out for bargains and use what you can for now as the wives usually know best.  ;^)
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 21, 2008, 10:02:09 PM
At about 1200 miles I was out for a ride and noticed a loss of power then cut out completely.  This was near the time I thought that the batts might get low so I turned off the switch and waited a few minutes hoping to get another half mile down the road as I had so many times before.  Turned it back on and nothing so checked the 20 amp fuse and found it blown for the first time.  Saw no wiring problems so in went the spare fuse which promptly blew in a few seconds with a slight jerk of the wheel.   Regen was bad on trying to pedal with the motor off so I disconnected all the wires to the controller which made it very easy to pedal.  Hooked up the non-regen controller I have at home and checked some voltages had .8-3.67 on the throttle wires with a 4.75 feed so close to acceptable but thought the .8 excessive at idle position.  The hall sensor power was near 5v also coming out of the spare controller but still I had no motor power.  So checked the other side of the hall sensor plug and found nothing coming out and upon a close inspection I had as others bent one of the pins over even though I was trying to be careful not to do so.  Straightened it out and as soon as I plugged in the power off went the motor happy to be moving again.  Looks like my regen controller is having problems will tear into it soon.  Have a 48v but not enough batts to run that much yet so will have to run non-regen for a time. Poor poor me.  ;^)
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2008, 10:14:49 PM
By themselves they are normal babies.  Together as a combined force they can equal the strength of a 7yo  consider the brain of a terrible two'er then times that by -3 because combined brainlessness doesn't multiply in the positive range it sways to the negative side of the plane.  instead of pulling down small things they get together and move tables and assist each other in all sorts of manner of things... Like we tape nappies on and the other one helps get them off.  If one isnt in the mood for painting she will willing hand the other the faecal matter needed to make out lives living hell.  OMG its endless and I am about to face another day in hell yet again....

From the moment We got them home the weighed 4lbs each on 3/4 hourly feeds and it was all hand on deck.  You finish feeding baby 3 baby 1 was ready to start on the next feed.


On topic
The thing is I got the batts, bikes, wheels and controllers to bulid 2 bikes and Im planning on a third.  Im thinking maintaining three bikes is going to be as hard as looking after three babies.  :'(
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 21, 2008, 10:58:47 PM
To be honest with you I doubt there is much worse in the world than terrible 2 times three on a bad day.  Ouch!! ;^) Then again there has to be the good also although lots of work involved.  Expect you have to be fairly well on a schedule to keep them going with not much free time or things get out of hand.  Mine are all growed up now and I will always miss the little ones in them.  Then again the grand kids are great no matter the age.  ;^)

As far as three bikes go I have one running, two more in the making, and as you can see it has had it's problems but I have been running it at full throttle and for lots of miles.  With the exception of the latest controller issue the problems have been minor.  Build them strong make sure you have torque bars and the wiring is oversized, carefully routed and secured well. Take good care of the batts  brakes and tires as your lives depend on them. I think it will be much easier to take care of the e-bikes then the brood.  ;^)
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Leslie on September 21, 2008, 11:19:31 PM
I will admit your bike looks a lot more easy to maintain than mine and better built.  I made the mistake of removing the plugs as I thought they were a little shotty.  It just made life that little bit harder.  The Big batteries take there toll on the rims at times and there is no room to have the rear mono shock which would make the bike better with this weight im carying...

I'm an improviser in sorts and I recycle junk to make it all work I have success and failure as I go. 

EG... I have made a very good auto light led holder from a garden hose fitting that to be honest works better than anything I've bought in the shops yet, it's just superior in every way...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/soulelectronique/light2.jpg)

However with the recycle approach with every success story there are failures too.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 23, 2008, 05:55:57 AM
Bike lights are over priced nice werq on yours.   My regen controller just bit the dust after 1200 miles or so and the stock controller is to big to fit in the box.  Have a 48v regen controller but not enough batteries.  GRRR.  That is not enough Lifepo4 batteries I do have 60v worth of the heavy stuff.  So looks like I become a member of the 48v club tomorrow as the 48v controller does fit in the box. Will put a couple of the smallish lead acid things in parallel and then in series with my 36v lifepo4s.  Should get me around till I can get some more batts and finish up the other bike. Have fun with yours take care of the thing and enjoy it while you can. Watch out for them little girls too they are just waiting to find something evil to do to your bike?  ;^)
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 27, 2008, 05:36:48 AM
48v is the only way to go for climbing hills and acceleration.  What a change although the top speed only slightly improved.  48v controller  bit the dust less than 50 miles on it really sucks as it was my newest addiction.  It was running great then just quit werqing without warning of any kind.  Had it fused and it blew the 30A fuse also.  Batts still had juice as I had less than 15 miles on a fresh charge.  Went over 18 miles on a like charge yesterday.  Had to pedal a 70lb bike near three miles to get home. Will tear into it soon.  Checked all the wiring and it was still top notch.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Spacelander 1946 on September 27, 2008, 06:25:18 AM
Sorry to hear of your fried controller BioHman makes me worry about upgrading my bike!.....Anyway here goes.....would the 500W motor handle 60V ?.........would need a new uprated aftermarket controller. I have 36V 10AH Lifepo4 battery, if I add a 24V 10AH battery this should give 60v 10AH of power right?....I would still need to charge each battery separately. I am not that happy with the performance of my kit as is and would like to upgrade without spending a small fortune or am I just asking for trouble & headaches?....Cheers
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Lanchon on September 27, 2008, 06:44:34 AM
> 48v controller  bit the dust less than 50 miles on

is this a GM regen 48V, GM non-regen 48V, or what? could you describe your batts?
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Spacelander 1946 on September 27, 2008, 08:15:23 AM
Currently running 36V 500W GM rear hub motor + 36V Regen controller + 36V 10AH Lifepo4 Batts....OK
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on September 27, 2008, 06:51:24 PM
Sorry to hear of your fried controller BioHman makes me worry about upgrading my bike!.....Anyway here goes.....would the 500W motor handle 60V ?.........would need a new uprated aftermarket controller. I have 36V 10AH Lifepo4 battery, if I add a 24V 10AH battery this should give 60v 10AH of power right?....I would still need to charge each battery separately. I am not that happy with the performance of my kit as is and would like to upgrade without spending a small fortune or am I just asking for trouble & headaches?....Cheers
From what I have learned by reading and past experience the GM motors do not dissipate the heat well at low speeds and or high loads.  I have no information on the change made to the motors by the factory from 36 to 48v but would imagine larger wiring would be the least done.  You will need to install some larger diameter wire to handle the increased voltage and likely amperage draw. Something a bit more high temp for all the wires would not hurt either.  Yes 24v 10ah batts in series with what you have should do fine.  Don't forget the rated amp draw on the batts either though.  It needs to be a minimum of 20 amp continuous with 40 amp for shorter durations else cutout and or limited performance will be a problem.  Your controller will make a big difference in performance also.  I would suggest a minimum of a 35 amp unit.  I am not sure what kind of top speed you will get at 60v but it will be a torque monster for sure.  Watch for the heat thing or you could fry your motor.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: Leslie on September 28, 2008, 08:20:09 AM
I have the feeling that the only difference between the 48v and the 36v is the stamp on the side.  I took a good look at the windings on the hubs I opened and there' is no room for a larger gauge winding.

I know how to fix the problem with going slow when you go up to 48v.  Just don't go slow "lol" or move down to a 25" wheel.  you will get some good torque and speed to boot.  I estimate about youll get around 23mph (37kph) on flats and lose less speed with the smaller wheel against wind and hills.  I looked at my speedo today and I was flying with a small wind behind me at 21 mph (34kph)

I wont go to 48v becaue our cops in Aussie QLD are like mega losers that like seeing a future of smog and huge 4 wheel drives using kids as speed humps in theire own front drive ways..

Sorry if you own an RV.  For you!  Im moving to hook these babies up to solar panels very soon.  :D
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on October 01, 2008, 02:32:55 AM
48v is the only way to go for climbing hills and acceleration.  What a change although the top speed only slightly improved.  48v controller  bit the dust less than 50 miles on it really sucks as it was my newest addiction.  It was running great then just quit werqing without warning of any kind.  Had it fused and it blew the 30A fuse also.  Batts still had juice as I had less than 15 miles on a fresh charge.  Went over 18 miles on a like charge yesterday.  Had to pedal a 70lb bike near three miles to get home. Will tear into it soon.  Checked all the wiring and it was still top notch.

Well I did tear into it expecting to find bad FETs but instead found two of the diodes connected on the resistors on the back of the board shorted.  Found the same thing wrong with the 36v controller which I promptly robbed parts from to fix the 48v unit. Soldering on one of these boards is awful to say the least. But once done I jump wired everything together and IT LIVES once again.  Such a deal so now after three nice days without the bike I will ride to work in the rain tomorrow. :^) NOT!!!
A bit more on the question as to why this happened.  I was putting things back together and decided to put some better terminals,recently aquired,  on a few of the power wires.  Did about half of them crimped and soldered also and decided that was good.  NOT!! As I was finishing up one of the main power wires pulled out of it's terminal I had just redone this one couple days before it had not been soldered just thought about it and decided to do it later. Looking closely at the terminal I could plainly see it was for 14-16 gauge and I had crimped it onto 12 gauge wire and thought it looked good that day.  What a difference a few days can make. 
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on October 30, 2008, 01:59:47 AM
Well another month a few hundred miles and a few spokes later I'm still riding the  GM Schwinn as my BMC motor was a bust as you can see here.  http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=388.0   I have learned it takes two 12v 9ah SLA bats at 10lbs total to do the job of 4 cells LifePo4 also 12v but 10ah and weighing 4lbs. Have been running 36v LifePo4 in series with the two 12v SLAs paralleled for several hundred miles now.  It's a pretty good match as they die about the same time.  But the balance of the bike has be seriously upset. I have adapted but dont' like the extra 10lbs in the bag on the side of the rear wheel.  I turned off regen also to be on the safe side. I run wide open on the trottle most times and get near 20 miles 20-23 mph first ten and then I slow down to 18-20 for the other 10 so I can make it home or close anyway.

GM spokes are touted as 12ga but they are turned down at the nipple and then threaded so really 13ga at most.  I have broken eight or nine spokes at the nipple thus far.  Probly the way the wheel was put together.  Replaced the broken spokes with honest 12 gauge stainless in black from Danscomp. They are 170mm in length for the stock one cross styled wheel and 26inch rim. I have done some miles of off road riding as of late and the broken spokes were the only damage done. Will get them all replaced soon enough.

GM motor and the Foxpower battery have proven to be a good match and neither has given me grief as yet. I have some 1700 or so miles on the e-bike now and one suggestion.  Get the 48 volt system and a 48v battery from somewhere also. I started out with the 36v and thought it was great till I tasted the extra 12v.  No comparison the 48v wins hands down. No more pedaling up hill unless you want to and plenty of start up torque to get out of bad situations too.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on November 29, 2008, 10:36:13 PM
Extremely clean installation there Biohazardman!  Sad to hear about the dead freewheel.  How difficult will the replacement be?

Sorry somehow missed your question a couple months back.  I had to buy the correct removal tool $6 and then enlarge the hole with a dremel as the axle would not fit through it.  Arm was not up to much so got out the 1/2 inch airgun and put it on the tool.  Freewheel came right off without a complaint and left the threads too!
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on March 22, 2009, 09:16:38 AM
Well finally got around to replacing the rest of the spokes and got the Foxpower Lifepo4 in a 48-volt pack.  Some bad cells were quickly replaced.  Put the batts in panniers as low as I could so it handles a bit better now.  Top speed up a couple MPH and range is about the same. Put on another road crank set with a 52-tooth high gear so I can actually help the motor at 20 MPH now as well as look like I am doing something.  Great when things finally get sorted out and you can just ride and ride and...

Thought an update might be in order.  The GM 500 motor now has 4000+ miles on it but the Foxpower batts did not like the extra amperage the new ecrazyman 48V controller was pulling so I went with another battery.  Got hold of some Dewalt packs tore them apart and pieced a few of the packs together.  Wow what a difference A123 lifep04 made.  Smooth power and at way more amps than I can possibly use with this set up. Lipo is good also but A123s will have far more charge cycles in them.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/48Vdewalt.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/biohazardman/bike1/Schwinnthrottleinbag.jpg)
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: sandmanhi on March 23, 2009, 01:26:10 AM
Too bad the bags don't go down just a bit more, then you would never see the motor. 
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on March 23, 2009, 11:25:58 AM
Too bad the bags don't go down just a bit more, then you would never see the motor. 
I thought about that also but they cost more than double what I paid for these and if they were any lower, they would hit the back of my foot as I pedal.  Even bought a different rack so I could move them down only to find they would also have to be moved backwards near equal to my lowering for the pedaling clearance issue.  Have to finish the 500 lumen light set up I am building and then I will call the thing done as I am working on a full suspension geared motor bike at the moment.
Title: Re: NewB here. Some info on GM 500w rear motor + Foxpower 10AH Lifepo4
Post by: biohazardman on December 19, 2011, 10:22:45 AM
It's been a couple of years now and the Schwinn with the GM 500W motor has over 5K on it now. I learned allot from the build. The bike is my brothers now and he put many miles on it last summer and expect he will continue doing the same. Second build was a Giant Trance3 with a BMC V2 600W motor with 66V of a123 M1 removed from Dewalt Nano packs.  To be quite honest I think the GM motor was built slightly better than my BMC specially in the axle machining area.  But I have noticed when you get these motors no matter the brand it's the luck of the draw as to what you are going to get fit and finish wise. I feel lucky just to get motors that run for so many miles as I have seen many that are not so lucky.  Expect I will have to try one of the Magic Pie motors someday in the future but I am waiting for them to change the name before I do.  ;^)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=390