Black Pie 5 cutting out

[Jbjohnsmith]

Hi I am a new member having purchased a Black Pie 5 and Smart Display . Since the installation I have incurred an intermittent problem where the power cuts out for no particular reason. The lights are still illuminated on the throttle  and the horn and lights work. The power then returnes if the power is turned off for a couple of minutes,and then turned on again.
Whilst the power has failed,the Smart Display shows zero battery and fault code 9 ( communication problem).
I would appreciate some help with this problem.

[Jbjohnsmith]

I am quite disappointed with the reaction to my post ..Maybe I should explain my situation a little more.
I am a paraplegic in a wheelchair and the MP5 is part of a trike that clips onto my chair to give me transportation.Without this unit operating correctly I am severely limited in my ability to conduct my life.
The last time that I used the unit ,it cut out whilst I was crossing a busy intersection and I was lucky to have a person nearby to push me to safety.
This is a brand new unit and replaces an older one which eventually failed after much use.
Surely there is someone who can help me with this problem..[/quote][/quote]

[Tommycat]

Hi John,

With the battery charged fully. Does everything work properly when it's not locked out? When the power cuts out... Do all three LEDs on the throttle stay illuminated? And stay so with the horn and lights used at the same time? Are the horn and lights operating the same (full voltage) at this time?

I would start by rechecking all the harness connectors and cables for damage, proper contacts/tightness. Looking closely at the battery connector.
Verify that the lower (motor) harness dead ended 4 wire cable is not shorting the wires and terminated properly to prevent this from occurring.

Background information on the battery... Type, size, age, voltage, constant current rating, ETC.

Absolutely intermittent conditions when power lost...? Under high load, near end of charge, bumps?

Do you have the capabilities to communicate with the controller?

Sorry 'bout the 20 questions... getting the facts. 

 

Regards,
T.C.

[Jbjohnsmith]

Thanks T.C. for your reply. I hope I can give you the information that you requested.
   The battery is fully charged
 The 3 throttle lights stay illuminated and the horn and headlight still work when the motor cuts out
We are checking the wiring harness to make sure that all is ok,although this is all new.
  With regards to the battery. I’m not sure of its exact age as I bought the unit second hand. It is a 48 volt and was purchased from Golden Motor some 3 years ago along with a MP4.
  This unit suffered no battery issues at all up until the replacement by the BP 5 Conversion Kit.
  With no load at all, the  unit performs perfectly whilst running on cruise control,for about 20 minutes at 50% throttle,until It then cuts power to the motor whilst everything else still works and the display shows zero battery and fault code9.
After turning it off at the key and waiting some 5 minutes and then turning it on ,the power returns ,the battery indicator shows full and the fault code disappears.
 The process then  keeps repeating
  We do have a USB cable and of course The Smart Display.
I hope this sheds some light on my problem.
Regards John.

[Tommycat]

For checking the harness...






I support the harness check-out as I'm at a loss as to how you can have full battery power at the throttle LEDs upper harness. And not apparently going to the motor or Smart display as I believe they are all connected inside the lower harness cable connection block (not verified), fed by the battery connection. 
By turning the battery key off and then back on it sounds like your resetting the battery management system. But bugging out with no load? Have you back-probed the battery connector right before and after the loss of power? Sounds like you have to wait till something recovers before you can turn the key back on and resume operations... will it go for another 20 mins or cuts out quicker?
I'd try the same test procedure disconnecting both brake connectors, and the cruise cable, leaving the lights off.  And securing the throttle to act as cruise.

[Tommycat]

Update!

Checked on my MP-5 to double check what can actually cause the symptoms that you described... Display functioning, battery low indicator blinking and error code 9 displayed.

Unlike what I was thinking, that the display gets it's battery voltage for the battery display indicator like the throttle LEDs.  It actually gets it from communication with the controller!   

So with battery power available to the display on terminals #2 and #5, with a loss of ether 5vdc regulated power ( pin #4). Or TX or RX feeds. (pins #1 or #3 respectively)  Will cause what you see on the display.

So that kind of eliminates the loss of battery voltage theory,(at least to the Smart display) but leaves the loss of 5vdc regulated power theory. Which is what the second test above was all about. To eliminate any sort of overload to the 5vdc circuitry. That might cause the 5vdc power supply to overload and over heat then shut off. Resetting after cooling off.

You can easily check for 5vdc at the unterminated wires on the lower (motor) harness at the Red (5vdc) and Black wires (0vdc-ground). Checking to see if it stays at full power (~4.35vdc) during operation or lost during the power loss.

[Jbjohnsmith]

T.C. I think you are on the pace. All of our checks are pointing in that direction. Assuming that the controller is the problem, then where do we go from there?

[Bikemad]

Hi John and a belatedto the forum.

Tommy seems to have covered most of the obvious checks, but it might also be worth trying the motor with the BAC-601 Smart Display unplugged to see if this has any effect on the cutting out problem.

The Smart Display is able to affect the operation of the controller in regards to the available pedelec assistance, therefore I'm wondering whether it may also affect the throttle operation if an electrical fault occurs within the Display unit itself.

Considering that the Smart Display unit also plugs into the same connector as the Bluetooth dongle, it might be possible that rogue data from the Smart Display could inadvertently switch the controller from "run mode" into "programming mode", which might prevent the motor from running. 

Alan
 

[Jbjohnsmith]

Thanks for the tip Alan. We tried pulling the plug  to the display, but we it had the same effect..
We can initiate the fault quite easily now by going at walking pace up an incline whereby putting the unit on some load.

[Bikemad]

I'm inclined to think it might be a weak battery cell or a poor connection on the battery supply wires.
Do the 3 throttle lights start to disappear just before the motor cuts out?

You might want to carefully inspect the contacts on the main battery connector plug/socket to make sure they are not burned or pitted which could cause a large voltage drop under heavy load.

Are you able to connect a voltmeter to the battery output wires (or even the charge socket) to see exactly how low the battery voltage drops just before the motor cuts out?

At least being able to "initiate the fault" when the motor is put under load should make it easier to track down the cause.

Alan
 

[Jbjohnsmith]

We have been down this track before and end up with the same result.
I have emailed Gary whith  a proposal to replace the controller. I expect to hear from him soon as this is my form of transportation and I have to rely on others while it is out of action.

[Jbjohnsmith]

Just a quick update. Gary has looked after me really well and is sending me a new controller and throttle. Hopefully this will take care of the problem.
It’s great to see that he is looking after someone , that is even in Australia. 👍

[Jbjohnsmith]

Final update. 
 The new controller and hand throttle , arrived and have been fitted by my tech expert at Col”s Connections Australia ,  who went out of his way to get it done.
The good news is that it works perfectly. I have had a couple of good test runs without any issues. 
Thank you to all concerned.
John.