Author Topic: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?  (Read 4674 times)

Offline Guyblat

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« on: June 21, 2018, 05:21:25 PM »
Can you tell me what is causing this noise and how to fix it?

It sounds like a deep grumbling or groaning deep in the MP5. I'm not sure if the 5K miles I've put on the bike have anything to do with it. I do wash the bike with water every now and then...

Is it bearings? If it's bearings, can I replace? Has anyone done this?

Here is a link to the video
https://youtu.be/u_BqGuPXXsg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/u_BqGuPXXsg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,499
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 11:25:34 PM »
That's definitely a bearing noise, but I'm unable to tell from that video whether it's wheel bearings or the freewheel bearings. ::)

If it's the freewheel bearings, the noise should stop completely while you are pedalling, and start again as soon as you stop pedalling (or pedal backwards when stopped).

If it's wheel bearings, the droning noise will continue at a variable pitch relative to the wheel rpm, whether you are pedalling or not.

If you need to replace a wheel bearing, it is probably best to replace both of them at the same time.
The following information should help you to obtain the correct replacement bearings:



Please Note: MP4 and MP5 bearings are the same as the Magic Pie III shown above.  ;)

If the noise is coming from the freewheel bearings, you may need to replace the complete freewheel assembly.  :(

Alan
 

Offline Guyblat

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 05:45:13 AM »
Wow, Alan you are VERY very helpful. Do you work for Golden Motor?

It is indeed the MP5 bearings. The sound does change based on MP5 and not the pedals...

Thanks for this. I'll order them. Do I need any special tools to get them out/in?
Guy

Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,499
Replacing the bearings
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 10:44:12 PM »
No, I don't work for Golden Motor, I am a Golden Motor customer who helps with the running of this forum on a voluntary basis.

I have never needed to change the bearings on any of my Magic Pies, but there were some useful pictures of a bearing change on an MPII (with external controller) in this post.

Unlike the MPII in the above link, the MP5 is has one large and one small bearing, and you may need to remove the cooling fan/brake disc mount assembly to facilitate removal of the large bearing from the side cover if the bearing comes away with the side cover.
I don't think the controller needs to be removed from its housing, as the centre of the large bearing should fit off over the outside of it.

If the side cover with the large bearing pulls off leaving the bearing stuck behind on the controller housing, you may have to remove the other side cover to allow the bearing to be gently knocked off the housing using a small parallel punch on the inner bearing race by tapping evenly all around the bearing. So it might be better to tackle the large bearing first, just in case you need to have both covers off at the same time.

I would try and replace one bearing at a time after removing one side cover at a time, leaving the stator assembly safely inside the wheel.

Before removing the side covers, place a mark (piece of tape etc.) in line with the tyre valve to ensure the cover is refitted in the same position. Then remove the 9 bolts around the outside of it. Use a block of wood to protect the end of the axle on the opposite side and then give the block of wood a nice big tap with a large hammer (or wooden/rubber mallet) until the side cover separates from the motor ring.
Just to clarify the above, to remove the left hand side cover, you tap the end of the axle on the right hand side (and vice versa).

Once the side cover joint has been loosened, it should be possible to gently wiggle/twist the side cover and bearing all the way off. A squirt of WD40 etc. may help.

Warming up the aluminium side covers with a hairdryer should expand them slightly making it easier to remove the bearings, but you will need to use a pair of suitable gloves to protect your hands. You will probably need a hammer and a suitable drift to carefully knock the bearings out (unless you have access to a suitable bearing puller kit or the bearings are a loose fit).

There should be no need to remove the freewheel from the side cover as they can both be removed as a single unit.

With the cover removed from the axle, you should be able to drift the bearing out using a suitable punch inserted through the centre of the freewheel onto the bearing's inner race. Keep tapping it evenly around the inner race until the bearing comes out completely.

When fitting the new bearings, try to avoid tapping on the inner race, as any pressure required to fit them into the housing should only be applied to the outer race. The old bearing can be placed against the new one to help drift it into place by tapping evenly around the outer race until the new bearing is full seated into its housing.
I would place the outer end of the side cover (or freewheel) onto a flat piece of wood to prevent if from becoming damaged during the bearing fitting operation.

The side covers are originally sealed around the edge with silicone sealant, but I just wipe a thin layer of vaseline petroleum jelly on the mating surfaces to seal the joint and prevent corrosion, and it also makes it much easier to take apart again in the future.  ;)

Alan
 

Offline Guyblat

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2018, 03:56:33 AM »
Alan, I've got the large-bearing cover and large bearing out and now I cannot get the smaller bearing out because my freewheel removal tool is not able to fit over that big axle. What do I do now? Also, I took the C-Clip out from behind the controller/(stator?) but it didn't do much to loosen the axle. Help!

2 PICTURES
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GsFGXoVC7ACsmb8v5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/eHAA1moxzktVZmZu5

1 VIDEO
https://youtu.be/B2hBYTdTM8c

Thanks! Guy
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 04:31:52 AM by Guyblat »

Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,499
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2018, 10:07:58 AM »
Hi Guy,

There are two main things stopping the axle/stator assembly from being removed:
  • The friction between the bearing and the axle/side cover
  • The very strong magnetic pull of the 56 neodymium magnets located all around the stator
I would squirt some penetrating oil onto the axle shaft inside the freewheel to help free the inner surface of the bearing from the axle.

I suggest you also place a scrap piece of wood underneath the end of the axle to protect your flooring, unless you want to have little circular indents or teeth marks from your sprocket embedded into the surface of your flooring.  ::)
If you were working on a concrete garage floor, the wood would also protect the threads on the end of the axle. ;)

With the wheel on the floor (as shown in your video) you will need to stand over the wheel and try and distribute your weight evenly around the rim of the wheel, while trying to keep the stator located centrally within the magnet to prevent it touching them.

If the bearing is not rusted onto the axle (or into the side cover) you should find that the stator assembly will push right through if you can apply enough force on the wheel.

Warning The pull of all those magnets is very powerful, so don't be tempted to place your finger tips around the side of the stator once it has passed the magnets, just in case the stator suddenly gets pulled back into place as you release pressure from the rim!  :o

If the stator comes out leaving the bearing in the side cover, you will be able to use your freewheel removal tool to undo the freewheel unit to allow the bearing to be drifted out by hammering on the end of a parallel punch (or suitable piece of steel bar) placed against the inner race of the bearing.

However, if the stator still refuses to come out, you may have to evenly apply some heat from a hair dryer around the centre of the aluminium side cover to hopefully expand it enough to loosen its grip on the outer surface of the bearing.

Another option is to undo the bolts holding the freewheel side cover to the wheel, and then try drifting it off the stator from the opposite side using a piece of wood as a drift (1" x1" or piece of broom handle etc.) through the gaps between the stator spokes.
Start by gently tapping evenly around the outer edges of the cover to free it from the wheel, and once the cover is free from the wheel, continue tapping around the centre of the reinforcing ribs on the inside of the cover until the cover eventually comes away from the axle.
The stator can be rotated within the wheel to allow access to the areas of the cover hidden by the single large stator spoke.

Alan

P.S. I ground out the centre of my freewheel removal tool so that it would fit over the 14mm axle, which enables the freewheel to be removed without having to remove the stator assembly.
 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 01:03:11 AM by Bikemad »

Offline Guyblat

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 06:07:45 PM »
I can report that the bearing transplant was a success! Thanks Alan for all you did.

I would call it a 5/10 on the difficulty scale, and this isn't my first time tearing something apart! Knowledge is power.
thanks
Guy

Offline Andyl33

  • Confirmed
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: MP5 Loud Grinding Noise. Bearing?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2021, 11:58:51 PM »
This thread deserves a bump, as it is very useful (Thanks Alan!)
I changed the large bearing in my MP5 just now after they arrived a year ago and nagged me to get it done ever since.
I was reluctant because it's a difficult job, with a lot of patience and very careful levering without touching the windings, but was nicely surprised that I didn't have to remove the stator from the rotor, and that made it a whole lot easier.
I used a chisel gently to help crack the seal and repeat around the seam. A little levering helped to widen enough to get flathead screwdrivers in then use wedges of increasing sizes to help prize apart.
Hot air gun was useful to help loosen up the housing around the big bearing and tap gently with hammer and screwdriver alternately opposite diameters until the bearing also warmed up to match. Letting it cool and repeating the process helped to release it completely.

I know exactly why they went bad - don't take your Pie to a jetwash, or if you do, really really take care to avoid the axle!
My bearings were seized the day after, and gradually freed up with the same horrible grinding sound, though it was still usable.
Was getting more noticeable to the point where people would turn around as I approached, and today I finally snapped.
I got the smaller bearings too, but will have to change those another time when I can remove the cassette.
Now got to put the wheel back on and expecting it to be much quieter - can hardly wait! :-)