GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Natloz on August 15, 2007, 02:10:37 PM
-
one of my golden motor SLA batteries won't hold charge anymore (I think it was defective when I got it). It is the 6 DZM-10, 12 volt battery. I wrote to "sales@goldenmotor.com" if I can purchase a new one but I got no reply. Does anyone know where I can puchase one?
-
Are you looking for these in the USA, or another country?
There is nothing special about the 12V sealed lead-acid / absorbent glass mat batteries that were sold with your kit. You just need to find a dealer with a 12V, 12Ah SLA/AGM battery you can buy. There are a lot of possibilities. I have had my eye on Rage Battery (www.ragebattery.com) but I haven't bought from them, so I can't comment on their reliability, customer service, or warranty support. They are currently selling a case of four (4) 12V, 12Ah batteries for $69.88 shipped [edit... prices and shipping policies may have changed since this post, post up if you are charged a shipping fee], with a 2-year warranty against manufacturer's defects. http://www.ragebattery.com/power-sonic/D5775case.html
One thing to remember about warranties on batteries. If they are limited cycle batteries, such as NiMH or SLA, you shouldn't expect to be able to replace your batteries under warranty service after you have run them through more than 100 or 150 cycles. Also, deep discharges should be considered warranty voiding. Batteries are a consumable and have a limited cycle life. The main point of the warranty is to protect you against DOA and extremely short lived batteries. Thinking you are going to ride a set of SLA batteries hard for 2 years of free replacements is wishful thinking and is out of the realm of reasonable expectations.
-Mike
-
... I have had my eye on Rage Battery (www.ragebattery.com) but I haven't bought from them, so I can't comment on their reliability, customer service, or warranty support. They are currently selling a case of four (4) 12V, 12Ah batteries for $69.88 shipped, with a 2-year warranty against manufacturer's defects. http://www.ragebattery.com/power-sonic/D5775case.html ...
Thanks for that tip, Mike; that is a good price for those batteries. And free shipping too? Almost gotta ask, "what's the catch?"
-
Can't say that I know what the catch is. For all I know they are a fly-by-night Nigerian scam operation.
As I stated when I posted, I don't have any direct experience with the company, just found them during some internet searching and have been keeping my eye on their prices for a month or two. Their other prices have been in line with expectations until just recently when I found this 4-pack deal. It might be as simple as they get them in a box of 4 already so they just slap a new shipping label over the manufacturer's label and ship it out, reducing their handling time and packaging costs. I have only been able to find 1 customer review online, and that was a simple "ordered it and they shipped it fast" type comment (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Rage_Battery). The batteries in the 4-pack are manufactured by Universal Power Group, which is supposed to have a decent reputation as an SLA/AGM manufacturer.
-Mike
-
Of the 3- 12AH and 4- 18AH SLA Universals I've purchased I've had to replace 4 under warranty within the first month or two due to a dead cell. This is after maybe 20 to 30 cycles max with minimal stress errand use at 5.1 miles per trip and I have kept them on trickle charge between trips at 13.8 volts standby after initial cyclic charge of 14.8 volts.
The article I stumbled on about ground water pollution in the Philippines as the result of battery re-manufacture being a cottage industry there may explain the high rate of failure.
According to the article when old batteries are received they are opened and the cells removed and load tested. Any that pass are recycled directly by putting then into a new case which is then sealed. In some redistribution cases the fact that these batteries are recycled may not be clear and they eventually end up being sold as new. Bad cells are thrown in a pile and latter melted down to extract the lead.
Battery "manufacturers" like Universal then have adapted to this scenario by offering a long warranty period under the guideline that OneEye suggests - replacement of dead cell batteries within the first few months and forget replacement periods longer than this or for batteries that will no longer hold a charge.
THE BASEL BAN AND BATTERIES (http://www.commercialdiplomacy.org/case_study/case_batteries.htm)
lead - China (http://www.ban.org/ban_news/2007/070712_lead_toxins_round_trip.html)
battery recycling (http://www.things.org/~jym/greenpeace/myth-of-battery-recycling.html)
expert panel (http://www.ilmc.org/news_eng_html/newscast15.html)
Recycling in the Philippines (power point presentation) (http://www.nfmsd.org/details/files/Recycling_in_the_Philippines.ppt)
-
Can't say that I know what the catch is. For all I know they are a fly-by-night Nigerian scam operation.
As I stated when I posted, I don't have any direct experience with the company, just found them during some internet searching and have been keeping my eye on their prices for a month or two. Their other prices have been in line with expectations until just recently when I found this 4-pack deal. It might be as simple as they get them in a box of 4 already so they just slap a new shipping label over the manufacturer's label and ship it out, reducing their handling time and packaging costs. I have only been able to find 1 customer review online, and that was a simple "ordered it and they shipped it fast" type comment (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Rage_Battery). The batteries in the 4-pack are manufactured by Universal Power Group, which is supposed to have a decent reputation as an SLA/AGM manufacturer.
-Mike
I just looked at the batteries in the link you first provided and noticed that the price jumped by about $2 a battery over the weekend. Don't know if that adds to their credibility or not, but... Even with the price jump, $20 a piece for a 12A battery isn't bad, especially with free shipping!
-
On the Rage website, they have a BBB online certification listed. Simply check with BBB for any problems or complaints the company may of had in the past. :D
-
I just purchased 4 UB12220 SLA batteries from www.BatteriesInAFlash.com and they arrived promptly. On the UB12220 batteries their prices are better than the other sites mentioned here.
-
How much each? Free Shipping?
-
$39.95 US for each battery shipping for all 4 batteries $40.33 US, total $200.13.
I didn't notice the case quantity price when I looked at the Rage site earlier. Their case quantity price is $30.60 per battery so depending upon their case shipping price they might be cheaper. So much for my good deal.(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
-
ebatteriestogo (http://ebatteriestogo.com),
which became eproductstogo (http://eproducts.com), now sells stuff you can buy at a thrift store, but at the original price of the item! ???
Things sure happen fast on the Internet. Looks like now they switched back! ??? ???
D5775 UB12120F2 F2 12V 12 5.95 3.90 3.70 $27.95 w/free shipping over $50, i.e., 3
-
The rage battery case deal has gotten worse again. They no longer ship case quantities for free, before they were shipping orders over $50 for free. The current price is $80.35 for the 4 batteries, with a $24.56 shipping charge (to northern California). This brings the set to $105, or $26.23 each, delivered. This is a lot closer to what I've heard is the going rate on 12Ah 12V SLA's, which is ~$25 to ~$27 delivered for a decent deal.
I hope someone was able to get in while the prices were in flux. It was a bargain for about a week or so.
-
If you go to the "battery finder" on the website and put SLA in the first box, then eletric bike, then warrior model, it takes you to SLA17-12(12volt 18Ah) for $24.05 each. I do not know what the quirk is here, but we should exploit it fast beofore it changes. The site also say free shipping except case quantities. 3 batteries do not equal a case! Good Luck ;D
-
If you go to the "battery finder" on the website and put SLA in the first box, then eletric bike, then warrior model, it takes you to SLA17-12(12volt 18Ah) for $24.05 each. I do not know what the quirk is here, but we should exploit it fast beofore it changes. The site also say free shipping except case quantities. 3 batteries do not equal a case! Good Luck ;D
What site are you finding that on? Got a link you can post?
Thanks!
Update: Never mind. Found it. Link (http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?LNG=en-US&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SLA17-12&Category_Code=)
-
That was on the Ragebattery website. hear is a screenshot to prove it:
Code Product Quantity Price/Ea. Total
SLA17-12 SLA17-12 $24.05 $120.25
Total: $120.25
-
http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?LNG=en-US&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SLA17-12
This should work as a direct link.
-
Thanks OneEye :) I know I was not dreaming when I found that price.
-
The description on the website is rather limited compared with the other SLA batteries listed. If you don't go through the battery finder on the website, you don't even get a picture of the battery. That leads me to think it might be a non-stock item that is drop-shipped through a secondary source. It's worth noting the company has a 1-800 sales number, so you can call to confirm the battery details before ordering.
I ran through most of the checkout process with that battery and they are adding shipping to them right now ($27 for 3 to northern California). If you are really interested in the batteries you may need to try through the 1-800 number: (800) 724-3045.
-
But the websits states "free shipping ground shipping on all orders excluding case qty" If it is posted, they should honor the deal.
-
Correct, however it may take a call to the 800 number to resolve...
-
I will call tomorrow to confirm prices and shipping, then post results here on the forum. 8)
-
The weight on that puppy is about 12lbs. That's a fair bit of weight; 36lbs for a 36V motor. Yikes.
I've noticed that people are most often recommending 12AH batteries; would the 18AH batteries being discussed yield a longer runtime than 12AH, or other benefits? What about going with a set of 8AH batteries?
-
The larger the Amp hour(Ah) rating, the longer range and/or hills you can climb. ;D
-
It all depends on your terrain, the wind speed, how far you need to go, and how many times you have to stop along the way. 8Ah may be somewhat disappointing, the voltage will sag under load pretty quickly, as a smaller capacity battery means it has to provide a higher discharge rate.
For no terrain, no wind, no stop & go, @ 20mph, users on Endless sphere are reporting using somewhere between 20-25 Watt-hours per mile traveled under motor only power. Hopefully that can serve as a starting point for deciding what size batteries will best suit your needs.
-
Amp hours equates to the size of your fuel tank capacity. Generally speaking, the more amp hours you have the farther you go. I say "generally speaking" to keep out of the battery type discussion.
The more you and your vehicle weigh the worse your fuel economy. Light weight people and vehicles can get by with less amp hours.
IMHO you put as many amp hours on your bike as you can afford in price and weight.
-
...and with a 31.5 volt cutoff built in the controller, that does not leave alot 'room' to work with. That is the reason why I am trying to get the largest Ah rated battery I can afford with the weight I can manage. ;D
-
What you need is a Cycle Analyst, then you can change your Brain Drain cut off voltage when connected to the correct controller. 48 volts 22 amp hours.
-
48 volt. 18 AH just about does if for me, but the cutoff voltage is fixed for the number of batteries, 42 volts for 4 and 31.5 volts for 3 to prevent deep discharge, which electronics can adapt to but unfortunately can not change.
-
another question: can I mix 10Ah,12Ah,18Ah batteries in my 36 volt package (3x12volts)?
-
Can be done, but not advisable. You are essentially limited to the lowest Ah battery in the series; once it is drained to 80% of capacity you need to stop using it or you will completely destroy it. In essense you are carrying around a lot of extra weight (the excess capacity in the other cells) for no gain, and your risk of killing a battery goes way up.
-
OK Guys(and Gals), I called RAGE battery and asked about the $24.05 price for the SLA17-12. Jerry the salesman said the price IS correct and they will ship it FREE UPS ground. (No sales tax either) They have 2 locations, one here in CA and the other in TX so they can reach most of the U.S. within a week. Oh, as far as the website thing , he siad he would fix it.
Update - I went back to the website and they raised the price to $34.95, but free shipping. I would not place my order online, instead call Jerry and see if you can get the $24.05 price w/free shipping. 8)
-
I ordered a set of batteries from Rage Batteries today, and received UPS ship notification a couple of hours ago. I ordered online through Google Checkout; figured that was probably safer than the store's checkout if Rage turned out to be a bad seller. I picked the Rhino 7AH batteries (less money, less weight than 12AH, but more than plenty range for my commute), but got a phone call from Jerry saying that the Rhino batteries were out of stock. He substituted the Yuasa 7AH batteries, which had a list price about $2 higher than the Rhino's.
Seems like things are going smoothly enough this far. Customer service with Rage seems good. Batteries should be here next Tuesday (ground shipping from CA); I'll keep you all posted.
-
How far was that commute again? You may be disappointed. Know Jerry is most likely not on the profit margin for 7 AH batteries. :(
Although I have had to replace 4 out of 7 of the Universals I purchased I did get them replaced with no hassle whatsoever by talking to Bob Parker at ebatteriestogo (http://www.ebatteriestogo.com/UPS_Batteries.htm)in Texas.
7 AH there are:
40694-UB UB1270F2 F2 12V 7 5.95 2.56 3.70 $15.95
12 AH there are:
D5775 UB12120F2 F2 12V 12 5.95 3.90 3.70 $27.95
Let us know in a few weeks if you are still happy.
-
Gee, I hope the rhino batteries I got won't suffer the same fate as your universals. As far as the Ah rating goes, I could not turn down the price of 18Ah @24.05 each. ;D
-
Keep us posted. Defective batteries make great door stops or 3 second power sources when surges switch your UPS.
-
That is very kind myelectricbike, I will remember that when the batteries are no longer under warranty 2 years from now. Hopefully by then, the lithium batts will have come down in price. ;D 8)
-
Dave,
How did those batteries work out for you? Are you up and running yet? I'm particularly curious about the 7Ah range in SD. Is that out on the prairie, or in the badlands?
-
Dave,
How did those batteries work out for you? Are you up and running yet? I'm particularly curious about the 7Ah range in SD. Is that out on the prairie, or in the badlands?
The batteries arrived, safe & sound. I wasn't impressed with the packing job, but they seemed to have fared pretty well.
I've still got a little work to do on my wheel before I'm operational (still have to dish the wheel), so no, haven't hit the road yet. As for my commute, it's about 6 miles each way, about 90% flat ground. Sioux Falls is fairly hilly, being built around a river, but I live about a mile from the bike trail that follows the river. Work is about another mile from the trail -- I can see it from my office -- but I have to exit the trail about two miles from work (that or traverse a corn field and bean field to get there. Not the best of options! ;) ) The business I work at is in a newly-developed part of the city, near the airport, and the last two miles is essentially two-lane blacktop with good-sized shoulders.
I've ridden the LaFree to work a couple of times, and it's able to make it both ways on a single charge without much effort on my part. Not sure what the AH rating is on the batteries, but it's only 24V. My intention is mainly to get to work on battery power, then me-power on the way home. So by my guestimate, the 7AH ought to be plenty, with some to spare.