GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: ToddMurray on August 01, 2014, 02:56:33 AM
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I've had my MP vector rear hub installed for about a day now.
Some minor issues running on 48V 10A Life battery however. After a full charge, the controller will not engage the motor.
If I wait a few minutes, pull the plug off the battery, then connect it again, this seems to resolve the issue.???
Once the battery runs down a bit, I can't reproduce the problem, until I recharge the battery. I checked the voltage on the battery after a full charge and it is 58.3V. I'm using the 3Amp charger.
On to the road test.
I'm getting about 43Km/h with a mountain bike on level ground with no peddling. This was confirmed by the street radar sign in my neighborhood.
I tried it tonight on the steepest hills I could fine and I never needed to touch the peddles to get up.
I have the twist throttle. I find it twitchy, especially on bumpy dirt trails. I discovered if I put cruse control on at a safe speed, this helps the jerking on the throttle.
I also check the max amp draw from the battery, and it peaks at 25Amps.
My hub is on the rear with a rear battery mount. This leaves my front end very light. This is not a problem on the paved roads, but I get really loose on dirt, and I must really slow down.
I'd like to bring this down to 32Km/h but can't get the MP3 application to work with the MP vector. Can someone point me to the correct application to use for the Vector?
goldenmotor.ca doesn't have it listed.
Todd
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Hi Todd,
It sounds like you "Overvoltage protection value" may be set slightly too low as it should not deactivate the controller until the battery voltage exceeds 62V for the 48V battery:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP5defaultvoltagesettings_zpsab98f9ec.JPG)
Regarding the programming problem, I did reply to your post over on ES (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61926#p924977) but presumably you haven't seen the reply, so I am reposting the important bits here:
The driver and programming software that I used with both Windows 7 and XP can be accessed here:
CH341SER.EXE USB driver (https://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/USB-Driver.rar)
PI-800 version 3.3.0 (https://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/PI-800.rar)
You can download my "Torque and Speed" spreadsheet attached to this post (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3024.msg18173#msg18173) which should come in handy for working out the required wheel rpm to set your maximum speed (see the lower left hand section). It will be interesting to see just how accurate the real rpm is compared to the programmed rpm (and your maximum speed).
First you’ll need to install the correct driver for the USB lead (download and run CH341SER.EXE USB driver in the above link) and download the programming software (LBMC_GUI_v3.3.0_GoldenMotor.exe in the above link).
Here is the important sequence that must be followed in order to connect successfully:
1) Connect the USB lead. (Vector controllers use a USB lead fitted with a five pin connector, see below (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5330.msg30534#msg30534))
2) Open the software that you downloaded previously.
3) Select the correct COM port from the dropdown option box (if you don’t know which COM port the USB lead is assigned to you will have to repeat the whole process selecting a different port each time until you find the right one).
4) Click the “Connect” icon and wait for the timeout error.
5) Then connect the battery power!!
The controller should instantly connect and the relevant parameters should automatically be uploaded and displayed.
When the alterations have been saved to the controller you need to unplug the USB lead and then switch the battery power off and then back on again for the controller to work.
If you switch the power off and on again without disconnecting the USB lead it will re-enter programming mode again.
Please let me know if this works for you.
Alan
EDIT:
Broken links updated
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Thanks you so much.
I will give this a try and updated this thread.
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Hi Alan
I can't get this CH341SER.exe driver to work. I installed it as administrator.
I tried it on two Windows 7 computers. One is 64bit, the other is 32bit.
I would expect once the driver is installed and USB cable connected, the new com port would appear under Computer Management, Ports (Com & LPT).
I have a USB to Serial Port on Com7, but that is for something else.
The Vector USB cable is not showing up on a port.
I did try your process of running through all the com ports, but that didn't work either. Probably because there com port was not added by the driver.
Please advise.
Todd
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After a little reading about this driver, it works for chipsets CH340/CH341.
I have apparently been shipped the USB Programming Cable for Vector Controllers SKU: VEC-USB.
Does this USB cable have this chipset?
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This is what I get on my Windows 7 64 bit machine:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Smart%20Pie/ComPorts_zps9190b426.JPG)
And this is what I get on one of my XP laptops:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Smart%20Pie/XPLaptopComPorts_zps7bd90c8c.JPG)
Have you tried rebooting your PC to see if it makes a difference?
Did either of the PCs indicate a new unrecognised USB device when you originally plugged the USB lead in, or do they not recognise anything when it's plugged in?
I have just tried plugging the USB lead into an XP PC upstairs and it could not install the device because it couldn't find a driver.
I didn't bother downloading the driver and installing it properly as I won't be using that PC for programming, but at least it recognised the USB lead.
If your PCs don't recognise the USB lead it may be a faulty cable. :(
After a little reading about this driver, it works for chipsets CH340/CH341.
I have apparently been shipped the USB Programming Cable for Vector Controllers SKU: VEC-USB.
Does this USB cable have this chipset?
My USB cable which was supplied specifically for the Vector controller has a five pin connector on one end and the USB plug on the other and appears to have the CH340 chipset.
Alan
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I see more than five pins on my adapter. Does yours look like this?
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Unfortunately not, that looks like the ten pin main harness connector, my USB lead looks like this:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Smart%20Pie/VectorUSBplug_zpsbca1449c.JPG)
And this is the connector on the motor harness that it plugs into:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Smart%20Pie/Programmingplugonmotorharness_zps69890c77.JPG)
You don't need to unplug the main harness to connect the USB lead on my vector controllers like you had to on the earlier ones.
I have four different GM programming leads:
1) MPII
2) Early MPIII (and early Smart Pies)
3) External controller
4) Magic Pie and Smart Pie (vector controllers)
I haven't seen one like yours before, I suspect that it's for the later MPIII and Smart Pies prior to the vector controllers, unless there is more than just the one type for the vector controllers. ???
If yours is not the right lead, it might explain why you are unable to connect to the controller.
Alan
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Thanks Alan. That explains it.
I will contact my Canadian dealer for the correct one.
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Thanks Alan. That explains it.
I will contact my Canadian dealer for the correct one.
Hi Todd,
I got the same 10 pin usb cable as you. Did you find out if you will need to get the usb cable replaced?
Thanks,
Ron.
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Thanks BikeMad for your support...
i have download your Vector program...
i have the same problem to connect to my Magic pie Vector :
have the 10 pin USB connector using old software and cannot connect , cable might not be appropriate ?
in fact I don't even know if I really have the Vector ? no marks+ no details on the hub
it run good with factory parameter and it seems to have more silent & smooth startup... ;)
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It seems Golden Motor did not tell me about the new Vector USB Cables. I have them now. It is unfortunate I have to come to the forum to learn about them. If I sent one to anyone by mistake please click the link below and we will get it sorted.
I have used the new vector 5 pin usb cable now and connected with the software and I must say despite the way you have to get it up and running it is very impressive. Nice clean look and lots of settings to toy with.
Here is a link to a video I made on connecting. The video is currently uploading so it will be online shortly. It outlines to method to connect as listed by Alan above and also shows how to find out what com port your USB cable is plugged into.
Thanks Alan for your efforts. Your an amazing person! I think we should "sticky" this topic as its a good thread to start out on for the vector experience.
http://youtu.be/ahcEXpMBxuA
Gary
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Thanks for the video Gary...
have done a 20km run with aggressive hills and the Magic pie Vector is amazing !
smooth + silent + aggressive statups !
now I need a battery and a USB cable to benefit from this monster ;)
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I have my new 5 pin vector cable and have successfully connected to the vector.
I notice that my controller was setup for a 24volt battery. I changed it to 48Volt battery and now my regen braking is working as well. I used the spreadsheet Bikemad uploaded to calculate my RPM wheel speed and it was very accurate at 32Km/h.
Also, my over voltage protection is now at 62V.
Thanks Bikemad
Todd
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I'm glad to hear you have got it working correctly and it's also nice to know that the spreadsheet is not miles out. :D
Alan
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DONE : thanks again for all the explanation...i received my cable and it work...
as stated by Todd , the appropriate battery voltage solve the NON regen issue...
now I have excellent regen and I need it :
(http://img.src.ca/2012/06/08/635x357/120608_de12b_rivs-pont-jacques-cartier_sn635.jpg)
i need 700 watts to climb this bridge without touching the pedals...
i also drop my max current from 25 to 18 amp since 700watts is plenty of power for me
and I want to raise my total millage...
Acceleration was brutal with instant kick in... i'v lowered the accel from
100 to 80 and now I have a smooth throttle response
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tried to change paramaters in my wheel
not so good
installed ch340. went well
installed both programming programs . went well
plugged in usb .located to com 5 ,went well
set program to com 5 and hit connect
run time error, and then connected battery to bike ,connection successful
dumped a bunch of values into program
see the battery value at 24 change it to 48
hit upload , says upload successful ,but at the same time it defaults back to 24 on it own
tried it on second program same thing
the 2 programs upload two different accell numbers one is 5 the other is 100
confused
Laurence
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Hi Laurence, the icons on the program interface are a bit confusing and do take a bit of getting used to.
After you alter the settings you need to click on the "Download" icon to save the settings to the controller.
Clicking the "Upload" icon simply reloads the settings from the controller into the program, just like it does initially when you click "Connect".
The Acceleration setting is different in the programs because it was modified in the controller to allow more control over the setting.
The original controller could only be set at 20, 40, 60, 80 or 100% which seems to show up as 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 with the revised program.
So, why are there two different programs in the Dropbox folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3kubv2jb8akpr7o/AAByJDmcssESXavtqd0BwiCBa?dl=0)? ???
Well, when I first tested the front Smart Pie with the vector controller I found the throttle response was too quick and I kept spinning the wheel on rough ground every time I opened the throttle to pull away. I eventually managed to work out how to get the program to connect and reduced the acceleration level to 80% as this was the next available level, but I found it a bit too slow.
I asked GM if the programming software could be modified to allow finer control of the acceleration setting and they eventually sent me a revised controller to test.
I swapped the controller over and was very surprised at how very slow the acceleration was compared to the original controller. I set the acceleration setting to 100% but it still took over 12 seconds to reach maximum rpm on 32V and 27 seconds on 54V.
I contacted GM and explained the problem and they quickly emailed me the revised software to use with the revised controller. I opened the revised software program and connected to the controller and noticed that the acceleration setting was only on 5%, which explained why it was so slow to accelerate. I now have it set to 75% and the acceleration is much quicker than the old controller was at 80%.
So now there are two programs, one for the original vector controllers and one for the the revised vector controllers.
I have left them both accessible as I don't know which of the two controllers people will actually have.
As long as one program works correctly with your controller, that's all you need, but if the Acceleration setting makes no difference, you might want to try the other one.
Alan
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download works
as far as acceleration ,wheel is yet to mate a rim
I did change 5% to 85% and it seems to accept it
did it change it on the wheel , don't know yet
thanks for the upload ,download thing
Laurence
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Hi,
Just a few notes:
My MP4 failed to connect ( or run ) at first, but then it did. My suspicion is the over voltage protection.
When it eventually ran, it accelerated very fast.
I then connected the software and saw that it was programmed at 24V. I changed it to 48V and (after a few goes: download=upload!) I have set it to 48v.
The accel is set to 100, but now it is very very slow to accelerate. I might try the other program.
Also FYI, for Mac users. The program works using virtualbox, and a free IE image from microsoft: https://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools#downloads
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"...
4) Click the “Connect” icon and wait for the timeout error.
5) Then connect the battery power!!
The controller should instantly connect and the relevant parameters should automatically be uploaded and displayed.
..."
I did the correct sequence. Nothing.
I reinstalled the driver BTW (from the download given by BikeMad--CH341SER.EXE--the old one caused the program to crash--alll good now up to a point) and COM 4 showed on the program automatically (correct).
I click connect and get the timeout error.
I turn ON the battery, and I get a window stating to connect the cable. Nothing. Zip. That's it. I unplugged the cable and checked that all five pins were straight (and presumably connecting) and still nothing. Damn. UGH!
Any suggestions?
Big Thanx!
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BTW- the motor runs when I connect the battery and throttle. Seems to not be set at top speed...but maybe I don't know how to gauge.
Anyway, THAT aspect of the connections work. Just not the USB cable to program/'puter.
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(http://)
A screenshot that shows the warning/window to connect the device.
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I noticed that you are using a later program which I have just seen on the GM website.
I have just downloaded and tried this particular program (V3.1.3) with two different vector controllers (original and revised) and it connects fine with both of them.
The only problems I noticed was the unrecognised font used on the message box buttons and the slight confusion over the program version number, V3.1.3 is shown in the title bar, but V3.1.1 is shown at the top of the left window pane:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP4vectorcontroller_zps74008e69.JPG)
If you have the correct driver installed and the correct COM port selected and your controller is not connecting to the software when the battery is connected, it is likely to be one of the following:
- A problem with your Laptop/PC
- A faulty USB lead
- A faulty controller
If you are able to try another laptop or PC it should eliminate any problems with your Laptop/PC. If it doesn't connect with another PC it is probably the USB lead or the controller.
Unfortunately, without another controller or USB lead to try it will be difficult to locate the problem.
If you have a local GM dealer you could send the USB lead to them and ask them to try it out to confirm it works properly.
If the lead can be tested and confirmed as good, it could be a controller fault that is preventing proper communication.
Alan
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The computer appears fine. I have never had a problem with it for anything else. I have two USB ports, I tried both. COM 4 and COM 5.
The program recognizes whichever COM and displays the correct one in the window automatically.
I do not have another computer to try.
As I said, the motor works with throttle (it just seems to not turn at a high speed--maybe the controller is set to 24v and my battery is a 48v??).
Anything I can try? Gary Salo already had to resend the cable--as the first one was not the correct 5 pin.
thanx
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It won't hurt to try one of the other programs in the Dropbox folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3kubv2jb8akpr7o/AAByJDmcssESXavtqd0BwiCBa) but I don't think the program is the problem.
If the controller was set to 24V the high voltage protection value would disable the controller completely if the battery voltage was too high and the motor would not run at all, but it would not affect the maximum speed.
I don't know what else to suggest apart from sending an email to David wyh@goldenmotor.com to see if he has come across this error before.
Alan
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I have the new BAC-601. It has a feature on it showing faults. The code displayed is "9". This translates as "communication error"...and the speedo isn't working (you plug this thing into the same cable that the USB cable plugs into).
So, I guess the controller is faulty? Or the wiring? I've never had this out of the house yet and so many problems.
damn..
(http://)
The pictures are of the lengthened cable I got directly from GM in China. 35 clams each.
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So, I guess the controller is faulty? Or the wiring?
The replacement controller comes complete with the motor wiring harness so it doesn't really matter which one is responsible for the problem as they will both need to be replaced.
Alan
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Yup.
Snapped a photo of the S/N and sent to David. It's one of the first, and apparently has known problems.
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So with the Bac601, you can *control* the Magic Pie right? And read the power / rpm.
Anyone have any idea how this works? I'm assuming some sort of serial connection. It seems like 'live' programming of the vector, which would be amazing.
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I don't think it's live programming of the controller, it simply alters the level of the
throttle or pedelec assistance.
When the vector controller is accessed in programming mode the motor cannot be used until the USB lead is unplugged (or the program is closed) and the battery power is then switched OFF and back ON again to reset the controller to run mode.
Alan
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http://goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/BAC-601%20LCD%20User%20Guide.pdf
This is the download for the controller instructions.
I'm waiting on a new controller (the one I received was bogus)...so I have not been able to use the Smart Display (BAC-601). In perusing the buttons and functions, I fear it will need updating. My hope is that my assumption that the rider must click the UP button four times before every ride (to get it to level 5 of the PAC). This will suck BIG TIME if this is the case...
The controller is set to arrive today so hopefully I'll have it up and running by this weekend.
I'll report, of course.
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Having nothing but problems with the controller and the USB cable. trying to get it sorted with GM.
Question: is there a difference (to the controller) if the battery is a 48volt 10Ah battery compared to a 48volt 20Ah?? I would suspect not...but...
I mean, the 20 is identical to the 10 except for the duration it can supply power (current), yes?
The power (current) it supplies is the same, yes?
(It would be the Volts that determines the "strength" of the current delivered, yes?)
thanx!
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I have the Smart-Pie 4 and have successfully interfaced with it on my Win7 laptop and the 5pin USB cable. I have been using the PI-800 software Ver. LBMC GUI V3.1.3 (b14-0704) I downloaded this from Golden Motor Canada.
I installed the driver as per instructions. After the first attemp Windows gave some message about installing a more suitable version? I clicked Yes. It reinstalled the driver. No message that time. I connected the USB cable as per instructions. Windows started searching Windows Update for a driver. It installed a driver and notified me that the device was ready to use. It also said that CH341 was on COM 4. Windows did this when I plugged the cable into a different USB port too, COM 5 that time. Anyway, loading the program and connecting to the controller as per instructions. It gives me only one COM port to connect to, COM 4. EASY! You only have to connect to it once for the whole session. Make a change as per instructions. Test the change as per instructions. Do this over and over. Connecting to the COM port once for the entire session. EASY. Thanks for the instructions Alan.
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Hi guys,
I have a 12.5" Front Smart Pie 4 with the Vector controller (setup as a rear wheel). I am using it with the GM 48V 10Ah pack. I have been using the PI-800 software Ver. LBMC GUI V3.1.3 (b14-0704) that I downloaded from Golden Motor Canada. My top speed is about 23-24kph. My range on flat roads is about 37km (to the Yellow light, 49V measured with multimeter) and about 30km(to the Red light, 46V) on hilly roads. Here are my current settings below. I have a few questions on the settings.
"PAS Ratio (0.1 Times)" I don't have PAS connected. I don't see a way to disable this option. Does this setting get ignored if none is found? or is there an optimum setting if not using PAS?
"Main Battery Current (A)" and "Rated Phase Value (A)" Is there a more optimum /safer setting for my hubmotor /battery combo?
"Maximum Forward Speed (rpm)" What's the maximum RPM that this hubmotor is capable of? I noticed the program will allow me to set it to 700. Will this hubmotor actually do that? FYI, with my current settings my MAX speed is just under 24 kph (measured by GPS) on full charge. This is about 2kph higher than the Torque and Speed spreadsheet.
"Acceleration %" This version of the program uses the 1-5 values. 5=100% (this was too harsh on pavement and spins out on gravel), and I assume 4=80% (takes about 10sec to my full speed, much nicer on a mountainboard).
Is there a guide available anywhere? Is there better version of the software than I am using?
BTW, I originally installed the wheel wrong and rather than modifying my torque brackets I tried to set the wheel into Reverse. I did this successfully however, the Cruise Control was disabled in Reverse and I could not see a way to enable that feature. So, I modified my brackets and flipped the wheel over correctly.
Thanks.
Myron
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I have a few questions on the settings.
"PAS Ratio (0.1 Times)" I don't have PAS connected. I don't see a way to disable this option. Does this setting get ignored if none is found? or is there an optimum setting if not using PAS?
If you do not have a PAS sensor fitted, this figure will have no effect. When using pedelec, this figure effects how much power is provided by the motor in relation to the speed of the pedals. There is no optimum setting as it will depend on each riders preferred Cadence (pedal rate).
"Main Battery Current (A)" and "Rated Phase Value (A)" Is there a more optimum /safer setting for my hubmotor /battery combo?
The settings you currently have seem OK for your battery/motor. Increasing the current setting might allow you to climb steep hills at a faster speed, but the Smart Pie is less efficient under high loads and could be more likely to overheat, but with a 12" wheel I think you are unlikely to strain it too much.
"Maximum Forward Speed (rpm)" What's the maximum RPM that this hubmotor is capable of? I noticed the program will allow me to set it to 700. Will this hubmotor actually do that? FYI, with my current settings my MAX speed is just under 24 kph (measured by GPS) on full charge. This is about 2kph higher than the Torque and Speed spreadsheet.
The maximum forward speed is ultimately controlled by the battery voltage, so your motor is unlikely to manage anywhere near 700rpm on 48V. Although you can easily reduce your maximum speed by altering the software settings, you can not increase it above the voltage limited maximum speed. If you are reaching 24km/h with a 12.5" wheel it must be spinning at nearly 400rpm, which could the most you are likely to achieve on 48V.
Is there a guide available anywhere? Is there better version of the software than I am using?
I haven't come across a user guide for the vector controller. Perhaps GM will produce a basic guide similar to the PDF version that was supplied with the earlier software (https://www.dropbox.com/s/75o0uo3mmqbw99d/MPIII%20CONTROLLER%20PROGRAM%20MANUAL.pdf?dl=0).
The latest software on the GM website for the vector controller can be found here (http://www.goldenmotor.com/controllers/PI-800.rar), but it may not be any better than what you are currently using.
BTW, I originally installed the wheel wrong and rather than modifying my torque brackets I tried to set the wheel into Reverse. I did this successfully however, the Cruise Control was disabled in Reverse and I could not see a way to enable that feature. So, I modified my brackets and flipped the wheel over correctly.
It would seem very sensible to disable the cruise function while in reverse, but as you have already said, there are times when it is desirable.
I have not yet tried using cruise in reverse, so it looks like I may have to try it out to see if it is still the same with my most recent controller.
Alan
Having tested my MP4 earlier today, I can confirm that the cruise control does not work in reverse on mine either.
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Where would I find the torque and speed spreadsheet you guys are speaking of?
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Where would I find the torque and speed spreadsheet you guys are speaking of?
It is in the same Dropbox folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3kubv2jb8akpr7o/AAByJDmcssESXavtqd0BwiCBa) as the other programs, but if you're having problems accessing the Dropbox folder, you can download the spreadsheet attachment from the original post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3024.msg18173#msg18173) instead.
Alan
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Hello guys!
I got an Magic Pie 4 Vector 48V in my Mountainbike and it works realy fine!
But can somebody tell me what " Decel level 1(rpm/s) Acceleration means?
Here are my settings!
Thanks!
Best Regards!
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I have no idea where the "Decel level" came from as it should really read "Maximum Reverse Speed (rpm)".
Adjusting this setting will determine the maximum speed in reverse, but it will only make a difference if a reverse switch has been installed.
I also noticed that you have altered the "Maximum Forward speed (rpm)" to 500. If you reduce this setting to ~360 (if using a 48V battery) I think you will find the motor speed will be more closely matched to the throttle control movement. ;)
Alan
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Totally stumped, Smart Pie 4 just won't connect. Tried on Win 8 and 7. Both computers verified successful driver install. Correct Com port shows up on both when the vector cable is plugged in. When trying to connect, get the usual timeout box. Power up controller, and nothing. Has anyone had a bad cable ? Can't think of any other reason, so am all ears. I want to turn on the regen and adjust it.
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As it is showing up on the COM port list I assume that you must have the correct USB cable with the 5 pin connector.
I am puzzled because you say that you want to "turn on the regen", as regen is usually enabled by default at the factory.
Have you previously been able to connect to the controller to turn it off?
Try the following and see if any of them makes any difference to the connecting problem:
- Disconnect the main harness from the motor harness
- Make sure that the unused wires for Pedelec and Reverse are not exposed and touching
- Use a different version of the programming software
- Uninstall the USB-SERIAL CH340 (COMxx) and delete the driver software and then download and run and the CH341SER.EXE program (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjcot2q6jpf1typ/CH341SER.EXE?dl=0) and install the driver before rescanning for new devices and see if Windows installs the correct driver automatically
If none of the above helps, the problem must be one of three things:
- The USB lead
- The controller
- A compatibility problem with both of the laptops (Electronic Nut (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5611.msg32100#msg32100) only had success after trying a fourth laptop)
If only there were another GM customer near to you it would make it a lot easier to pinpoint the problem by trying a different combination of laptop, cable and controller until the exact cause was found.
If you were to send your USB cable to Gary with a prepaid self-addressed return envelope, I'm sure he could quickly test it with another controller/laptop to find out if the cable is working correctly. ;)
Alan
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Thanks Alan, I have the correct cable, I dealt with the chopped pedelic cable when I received kit, separating and insulating wires. The usb software I used is the latest from GM Canada site, is it different from your dropbox version? Where can a different programming software be had? I am assuming regen is either not working or turned way down as I can't feel any resistance when brakes applied. That may be normal.
Thanks
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The software on the GM Canada site is the same as the one in the "Latest programming software from GM site" folder inside the Dropbox folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3kubv2jb8akpr7o/AAByJDmcssESXavtqd0BwiCBa).
The other two versions in the Dropbox folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3kubv2jb8akpr7o/AAByJDmcssESXavtqd0BwiCBa) (Original and Revised) are older editions of the programming software.
The "Revised" version should still work with recent MP4 and SP4 controllers, but the "Original" version would only work properly with one of the very early MP4 or SP4 controllers.
I am assuming regen is either not working or turned way down as I can't feel any resistance when brakes applied. That may be normal.
If you raise the driven wheel off the ground, spin it up using the throttle and then pull the brake lever for the non-driven wheel the motor will cut out. If regen is not working it will take some time for it to slow down (just like it does when the throttle is released), but if regen is working, the motor should stop the wheel fairly quickly.
There was a post recently (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5639.msg32038#msg32038) where one of the brake levers was faulty and simply shorted out the throttle feed instead of correctly disabling the controller output and activating the regen.
Alan
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Thanks Alan , I will try different drivers, and I will check the regen with the wheel spin, nice tip.
Will report back
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So, upon wheel spin up, brakes applied, no resistance by controller, and even with every combo of drivers and gui's, no connection to my computer. Can't believe I have a bad usb cable AND both brake levers defective? I think I can connect a MM to the brake control pinouts to check if they ARE defective and then I will have to contact GM canada and see if Gary has some ideas. i'm out of them. Otherwise, I like the SP 4 motor, very quiet, smooth, but i'd like to try it on 48 volts, for a bit more power. Not too much, I need the exercise. ;)
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When you pull either of the brake levers, if the switches are working correctly, the throttle should be disabled, even if the regen is not working.
If the motor still tries to run when the throttle is operated with either of the brakes applied, there will be a fault within the wiring, brake switches or the controller itself.
Alan
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Hello Guys!
I got a problem with a Smart Pie Vector, 36 V , with Pas Sensor and BAC-601 Display!
Thera are 5 Pas Levels, at the first I got 100 Watts, and from 2 - 5 Level is the same Power?
What parameter do I have to change?
Thanks!
Best Regard
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Without knowing what your existing settings are it is difficult to know what might be causing the problem.
Make sure the "Battery drawn current (A)" is set to 18 Amps maximum for the Smart Pie. If it is set higher than this it will be very inefficient and can cause the motor to heat up under sustained heavy load.
The "Rated phase current (A)" is usually set at about 56 Amps.
Try setting the "PAS Ratio ( 0.1 times )" to 50 and see what difference it makes.
What is the maximum power shown on the display if you use the throttle instead of the pedelec?
Do you notice any difference between the assistance level in lower gears compared to higher gears?
It is unusual for the power to be the same for all five modes, does it still produce assistance when level 0 is selected?
With the battery switched off, disconnect the BAC-601 Display and see if the pedal assist feels any different without it being controlled by the BAC-601 Display.
Alan
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Hy Alan!
Thanks for your reply!
Maximum power with throttle is about 600watt!
There is no assistance when level 0!
When I change Pas ratio to 50 I got 11 watt on level 1, 520watt on level 2, from 3 - 5 nearly the same watt 590-610!
Without BAC it works strong from the start-i think normal!
Martin
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Hellou,
my Magic Pie 5 don't want connect with pc..i try everithing.Please can you help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzQFipAqfDw
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Hi Jaffa,
According to the video, you seem to be doing everything in the correct order and, if everything was working correctly, it should have connected.
I realise that it is not connecting to the PC, but does the motor run OK?
If the motor doesn't run, try unplugging both of the brake switch connectors and try again, as this would rule out a short inside one of the brake switch cables.
If the motor still doesn't run, or does run, but spins in the wrong direction, check that the unused wires on the pedelec/reverse cable are not exposed and touching against each other.
If the Red +5V is touching the Black ground wire then the motor will not run and the controller will not be recognised by the programming software.
If the Blue and Black wires are touching, this will make the motor run backwards and will also interfere with the programming of the controller.
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/MP3%20SmartPie%20Wiring%20Layout.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP5/MP5%20and%20SP5%20Harness%20details.JPG)
It might also be worth trying to connect to the programming software with the throttle disconnected, just in case the +5v supply is somehow shorted inside the throttle.
Try and give as much information as possible with your reply, comments like, "i try everithing" are not very informative. ;)
Alan
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Ihave tried everything you adviced me.I check pedelec cable,brake cable and everything is ok.Motor is working normaly.After my effort connect motor whith cable started problems whith bluetooth connection.Now it isnt able to set motor.
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Long shot here, but are you pressing the "connect" button on the left? Not trying to insult you, but it happened to me. I plugged in my USB, had the correct com port and tried upload, download,... and nothing happened. Couldn't figure it out as it always worked before for me... Then finally remembered I had to press the button on the left first.
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At least we now know that the +5V supply, Ground connection, throttle unit and both brake switches are all OK and that the reverse signal wire is not grounded because the motor runs normally (and in the correct direction).
As you are still unable to connect to the controller with the brakes and throttle etc. unplugged, it could be one (or more) of the following:
- A faulty USB programming cable
- A poor connection on the programming connector plug or socket
- An open or shorted connection somewhere within the motor harness (Which must have occurred when the USB cable was used)
- A faulty programming interface chip on the controller
After my effort connect motor whith cable started problems whith bluetooth connection.Now it isnt able to set motor.
As your Bluetooth dongle was working before, but has now stopped working and the USB programming cable does not seem to be communicating with the controller, it would suggest that the problem must be common to both items.
As they both plug into the same connection on the controller, it could be a faulty connector/wiring, or the controller itself?
Check the five pins on the connector to make sure that none of the pins have been accidentally bent over or damaged by a forced/misaligned insertion of either of the plugs (Bluetooth dongle or USB cable).
If the five pins are all OK, the fault may be in the controller itself (or somewhere inside its attached wiring harness) and you may find that the controller will need to be replaced in order to get the Bluetooth (and USB programming connection) working again. :(
Alan
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Thank you Alan I try new cable and will see..
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I'm at a loss for why I can't get the programming software to connect to my new Smart Pie controller.
Last night I successfully installed the Smart Pie software to the controller using the flash update program following Gary's video: https://youtu.be/UD8_zPrg6wQ?t=4m35s
Immediately afterwards, I tried connecting using the programming software. I've successfully connected to other controllers using this same cable and program on this same computer. Following the instructions on this thread doesn't work, neither do the instructions on Gary's other video: https://youtu.be/ahcEXpMBxuA?t=1m59s
I've confirmed that none of the unused wires are touching each other. And I don't have the wire harness connected.
It's worth noting that when I first hooked up the controller to the motor, I powered it on fully connected to the bike, and didn't get any error messages on the display. After installing the Smart Pie software and trying to connect to the programming software, I get an error 2 (throttle) message when I connect everything up on the bike.
Thanks for any guidance on next steps.
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Hi Alan,
can you suggest to me the parameters for my bike?
i've mounted Smart Pie 4 on 29" bike
but I don't know the correct adjustements for have a good response from motor
with default parameters the motor is too powerful and help me only with high pedal cadence....
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You will need to try changing some of the settings and see how the bike runs after each adjustment.
Make a note of the alterations you apply to avoid any confusion and also a brief note of what the outcome was during the test ride (no different, improved, worse, too weak, too slow to respond etc.).
You should be able to adjust the amount of assistance in relation to the cadance by changing the PAS Ration ( 0.1 times ) setting.
If the motor is really too powerful, try lowering the Battery drawn current (A) (default/advisable maximum is 18A) and/or the Rated phase current (A) (default is 56A) in stages until you find the best level of assistance.
If the power cuts in too strongly, you can also try reducing the Acceleration setting to ease the power in more gently.
Unfortunately, the PAS sensor only detects the pedal speed, and therefore does not allow the controller to apply power in relation to the load on the pedals.
Do you have the BAC-601 Smart LCD display unit to manually change the assistance levels while riding?
Alan
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hi,
i've installed bluetooth interface so I can update parameters by smartphone.
my bike is mtb 29" - 10 speed on rear and 3 speed on front
i've installed also Pas sensor, battery is 36v
i've tried to change something, but I don't see the difference between the levels.
in your opinion can be a good solution this adjustment?
battery drawn curret 18a
rated phase 35
ratio PAS 100
max forward speed 200
thank you
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If the changes you have made are not noticeable, then either they were not "downloaded to the controller" properly or they need to be changed a bit more until you get it working as best as you can.
At least with Bluetooth, you can easily change the settings on the bike and quickly test the effect of the changes. ;)
If the PAS is still not working at lower pedal cadence, you may be able to add more magnets to the magnet ring on the pedelec sensor (if you can find suitable magnets).
Alan
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Hi Alan,
yes with bluetooth is too easy.
now i've changed and put these settings:
pas ratio 100
battery drawn current 10
rated phase 35
max forward speed 200
acceleration 50
with level 1 help me only with high cadence frequence
with level 2-3-4-5 the motor help me but with same power
any suggestions?
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I don't know what else to suggest, if you can't improve it any more by adjusting the settings, then another way to improve the PAS is to purchase a PAS Torque Sensor (https://www.goldenmotor.ca/categories/Cycle-Analyst/PAS-Torque-Sensors/) to enable the motor to provide power relative to the pedal pressure instead of the cadence.
I'm not sure if these will work on their own, or whether a Cycle Analyst (https://www.goldenmotor.ca/categories/Cycle-Analyst/) is also required.
Here is the user guide for the Torque sensor (https://www.goldenmotor.ca/TDCMGuide.pdf), but if you need further information, Gary (GM Canada) may be able to answer questions on that particular setup.
Alan
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Hi,
now i've solved the problems on cadence.
with different sensor and magnets i've a quickly response from motor.
just the problem on the levels remain.......with level 1 or level 5 I get ever same assistance!
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First of all, thank you in advance for reading and helping out.
The case:
I want to change Maximum Forward Speed from 380 to 700 because at the moment the topspeed is set to 30 km/h, it is a 26" wheel so should be able to go +40 km/h.
My Pie 3 on the same bike could go over 40 km/h and I could edit the RPM however I wanted. I am confused as you can tell.
I have done settings before on previous series but this Pie is testing me.
I can change other settings like Reverse Enable or the Voltage - but when I change the RPM it defaults back to 380.
(https://i.imgur.com/xAskxOE.png)
Following every step from Bikemads post on the first page:
"First you’ll need to install the correct driver for the USB lead (download and run CH341SER.EXE USB driver in the above link) and download the programming software (LBMC_GUI_v3.3.0_GoldenMotor.exe in the above link).
Here is the important sequence that must be followed in order to connect successfully:
1) Connect the USB lead. (Vector controllers use a USB lead fitted with a five pin connector, see below)
2) Open the software that you downloaded previously.
3) Select the correct COM port from the dropdown option box (if you don’t know which COM port the USB lead is assigned to you will have to repeat the whole process selecting a different port each time until you find the right one).
4) Click the “Connect” icon and wait for the timeout error.
5) Then connect the battery power!!
The controller should instantly connect and the relevant parameters should automatically be uploaded and displayed.
When the alterations have been saved to the controller you need to unplug the USB lead and then switch the battery power off and then back on again for the controller to work."
(https://i.imgur.com/C7QXYgG.png)
It connects fine with Windows 10 - I also tried to open the PI-800 software in compatibility mode Windows 7 with full rights, it did not make any difference. Also 5-pin+ports are working as intended. I also updated the USB driver.
(https://i.imgur.com/p2ua4s0.png)
I then unplug the USB lead and then switch the battery power off and then back on.. Nothing, back to 380.
If you know what I am doing wrong please let me know, I want it to run 100% unlimited.
Cheers, Phoogieman
Edit:
Magic 5 Pie
Controller G
Ping Battery 48v / 20 Ah
Wheel: 26"
Controller: BAC-0501
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Hi and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum,
I don't think you are doing anything wrong but I suspect the controller has been set to allow a maximum of 380 rpm.
The controller is limited to an absolute maximum battery voltage of <63V (the maximum safe nominal battery voltage is 48-51.8V).
Even at the absolute maximum battery voltage, the motor's unloaded speed is unlikely to exceed 380 rpm, therefore there is not much point in allowing higher rpm figures to be entered. ???
A 26" wheel spinning at 380 rpm equates to ~47 km/h, so it shouldn't be the 380 rpm that is limiting your top speed.
It is more likely to be a low throttle signal voltage (below 3.25V) or insufficient current being provided to achieve the maximum speed under load.
If you are unable to achieve the expected wheel rpm (or speed) under a no load condition (wheel suspended in mid air) then I suspect it is either the throttle itself, or more likely a low +5V supply from the controller.
If the +5V supply to the throttle is too low, then the throttle would be unable to output the 3.25V required to achieve maximum rpm. ;)
You should be able to check the actual +5V supply voltage by measuring it in relation to battery negative (ground) at the pedelec connector or one of the brake switch connectors:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP5/MP5%20and%20SP5%20Harness%20details.JPG)
If you place a short piece of wire insulation on the end of the Positive meter probe (or wrap some insulation or masking tape around it to make a tube) it will prevent the probe from accidentally touching against adjacent pins while you are checking the voltage on the +5V supply pin:
(https://i.imgur.com/6Vg5VXA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AzLSB2o.png)
The +5V supply should ideally be between 4.5~5 Volts, but your throttle may still produce a full throttle signal output voltage (at least 3.25V) with slightly less than 4.5V on the +5V supply.
P.S. I have just checked one of my controllers to see what voltage readings you should expect to see:
The +5V supply was reading a constant ~4.9V with the throttle and Bluetooth dongle disconnected.
When I plug just the throttle in, it drops to 4.23V.
When I plug just the Bluetooth dongle in, it drops to 4.52V.
When both units are plugged in, it drops to 4.22V
Please keep us updated with your findings as it may well help others who may be experiencing a similar lack of top speed.
Alan
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Yes I have tested already
3.7V on the throttle (+5v)line
What can I do?
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If the 3.7V was measured with the throttle disconnected, it will probably be even lower when the throttle is plugged in:
3.3 volts with dongle plugged in and throttle unplugged.
2.04 volts with dongle and throttle connected
It is probably a weak 5V regulator (which is an integral part of the controller) so if it's still under warranty I suggest that you contact your supplier and explain the problem to them, as a replacement controller may be needed to rectify the low +5V supply.
However, if it's out of warranty, you might want to try adding an external +5V supply to see if it overcomes the problem.
You could start with three AA or AAA cells connected in series connected between battery - and the +5V wire to see if it cures the low top speed problem, and these could hopefully be replaced with a simple 60V to 5V DC/DC converter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Adjustable-Converter-4-5-60V-to-3-3V-5V-6V-9V-12V-24V-3A/262806130160) for a more permanent solution.
It might also be possible to use a 10K Multiturn Potentiometer (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401618832146) as a simple voltage divider to boost the low +5V supply.
I don't know if there is sufficient room to fit this item inside the throttle, but would be a convenient place to install it as the throttle housing already contains the Battery +, Battery - and +5V wires inside. ;)
The potentiometer would need to be initially adjusted to provide an output of ~5V with a fully charged battery before connecting it to the +5V supply wire, but once connected, it should be possible to adjust it slightly if necessary to ensure that the +5V wire is still set to the expected ~5V.
Alan
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If the 3.7V was measured with the throttle disconnected, it will probably be even lower when the throttle is plugged in:
3.3 volts with dongle plugged in and throttle unplugged.
2.04 volts with dongle and throttle connected
It is probably a weak 5V regulator (which is an integral part of the controller) so if it's still under warranty I suggest that you contact your supplier and explain the problem to them, as a replacement controller may be needed to rectify the low +5V supply.
However, if it's out of warranty, you might want to try adding an external +5V supply to see if it overcomes the problem.
You could start with three AA or AAA cells connected in series connected between battery - and the +5V wire to see if it cures the low top speed problem, and these could hopefully be replaced with a simple 60V to 5V DC/DC converter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Adjustable-Converter-4-5-60V-to-3-3V-5V-6V-9V-12V-24V-3A/262806130160) for a more permanent solution.
It might also be possible to use a 10K Multiturn Potentiometer (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401618832146) as a simple voltage divider to boost the low +5V supply.
I don't know if there is sufficient room to fit this item inside the throttle, but would be a convenient place to install it as the throttle housing already contains the Battery +, Battery - and +5V wires inside. ;)
The potentiometer would need to be initially adjusted to provide an output of ~5V with a fully charged battery before connecting it to the +5V supply wire, but once connected, it should be possible to adjust it slightly if necessary to ensure that the +5V wire is still set to the expected ~5V.
Alan
My Smart Pie controller, 5V regulator was damaged a month ago. Because I bought a pair of electric brake levers that was not from Golden Motor.
Connection pins does not match Golden Motor cable (my mistake that I did't check them before, It has the same 3 pins waterproof connector).
When I replaced one of them and pull the brake lever ,then short circuit happened.
I made external +5V supply from 4 AA rechargeable battery and XL4005 adjustable buck converter to drop voltage to +4.65V
If the voltage is over 4.7V, Throttle will not work properly (It works but not comfortable to use).
Fully charged 4 AA battery can run more than 1,000 kilometers.
I cut and alternate the wires of new brake lever to avoid short circuit.
Thanks Alan.