GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Reviews => Topic started by: Hardcore on October 25, 2009, 12:44:57 PM
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hey all,
I'll start with the reviews(after Hyena ;))
What question do you all have about my Magic Pie(I got it running)
Should I make a youtube video about it, or pics?
Here are the stats
Bike: Fully susp. MTB with Topeak Defender mudguards, Zoom suspension, Front and rear disc brakes.
Protection: Axa CH-95 chain lock (art sertified)
Voltage: 48v (54.6v fully charged)
Top speed: 45 km/h
Range: 55 km (with pedaling 35 km/h to 40 km/h)
Acceleration: 0-45 in 5 secs
0-40 in 4 secs
Pedal start 5-40 in 3 secs ;D
A little bit about myself:
Name: Kevin
Age: 15 years
Gender: Male
Passion: Electric vehicles
First ebike: described above
and a picture of the bike before converted to ebike.
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Shit that's fast! And quick acceleration.
I would love to see a video not only demonstrating the speed and acceleration but also the noise it makes.
En als je binnen een straal van 55km van Deurne woont het ik een bakje koffie, en een stopcontact voor je. :D
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Largest grade hill it can climb, motor only, and reach an equilibrium speed. That is, on a 0% grade, the equilibrium speed will be the top speed you reported. At some grade, the motor will not be able to go up the hill. So presumably, there is a grade below which a motor will reach an equilibrium speed and not slow down but above which it will continue to slow until it stops.
For argument's sake, assume you start at 20 km/hr (12 mph) at the bottom of the hill and as you hit the bottom of the hill, you give it full throttle. Assume it must maintain this speed for 5 minutes (so the motor will be running above its continuous rating, presumably with the controller maxed out.
Just curious. My application requires ability to climb moderate-to-(relatively) steep but not terribly long hills. I'm interested in finding a way to standardize the ability of motors to climb hills.
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Shit that's fast! And quick acceleration.
I would love to see a video not only demonstrating the speed and acceleration but also the noise it makes.
En als je binnen een straal van 55km van Deurne woont het ik een bakje koffie, en een stopcontact voor je. :D
sorry ik woon dicht bij oldenzaal,
about the noise I mostly hear the wind and the freewheel but when I'm accelerating I can hear some noise, not much because I live outside the city.
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Largest grade hill it can climb, motor only, and reach an equilibrium speed. That is, on a 0% grade, the equilibrium speed will be the top speed you reported. At some grade, the motor will not be able to go up the hill. So presumably, there is a grade below which a motor will reach an equilibrium speed and not slow down but above which it will continue to slow until it stops.
For argument's sake, assume you start at 20 km/hr (12 mph) at the bottom of the hill and as you hit the bottom of the hill, you give it full throttle. Assume it must maintain this speed for 5 minutes (so the motor will be running above its continuous rating, presumably with the controller maxed out.
Just curious. My application requires ability to climb moderate-to-(relatively) steep but not terribly long hills. I'm interested in finding a way to standardize the ability of motors to climb hills.
well I tried a couple of hills but there was one long hill but it still went 35 km/h and a very steep hill of 50 degree, 4 meter long. From a still stand it could still climb the hill easely.
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A picture of my ebike without the battery
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Kevin,
Did the brake disc fit without any modifications and does the wheel line up centrally in the frame?
Do you have a special technique for climbing a 50 degree hill without flipping over backwards? :D
Alan
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Hardcore,
I'm building up a dual suspension bike myself and I like the mud guards you have on yours. What type/brand are they?
Muzza.
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Topeak Defender FX & RX from chainreactioncycles (dot) com
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Kevin,
Did the brake disc fit without any modifications and does the wheel line up centrally in the frame?
Do you have a special technique for climbing a 50 degree hill without flipping over backwards? :D
Alan
ooh I ment % , I don't know how to measure it or say it so it was 0 meter high and I drove up the hill and there it was 3 meters higher and the hill was 4.2 meters long.
It centered very well, I have not modded anything on the bike, everything fitted well after an installation time of 30 min. (I took the wheel and innertube off and replaced it with my own, fitted the disc and wired everything up)
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Also you should wait for the new rack they got, check the new pic on their site. It's a hanging rack for fully susp. MTB's.
Cheers (B)
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Here are the stats
Bike: Fully susp. MTB with Topeak Defender mudguards, Zoom suspension, Front and rear disc brakes.
Protection: Axa CH-95 chain lock (art sertified)
Voltage: 48v (54.6v fully charged)
Top speed: 50 km/h
Range: 55 km (average of 35 km/h to 40 km/h)
Acceleration: 0-45 in 5 secs
0-40 in 4 secs
Pedal start 5-40 in 3 secs ;D
A little bit about myself:
Name: Kevin
Age: 15 years
Gender: Male
Passion: Electric vehicles
First ebike: described above
and a picture of the bike before converted to ebike.
You are missing a LOT of important data, so your stats don't mean much.
1. What is the verified laden weight (both bike and rider)?
2. How was the acceleration tests performed, and WHO helped you 'time' the runs?
3. Hill climbs MUST include accurate slope measurements - including both angle and distance.
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ooh I ment % , I don't know how to measure it or say it so it was 0 meter high and I drove up the hill and there it was 3 meters higher and the hill was 4.2 meters long.
I think your calculation must be off a bit. If the hill was 4.2m long (hypotenuse) and 3m high (opposite side), then the horizontal distance was about 3m (adjacent side=sqrt(4.2^2 - 3^2)=3). This is a 45 degree angle or a 100% grade. Even a 50% grade would be a 25 deg. angle, a very steep incline. I think you must be mistaken about this. If you can test this on a known grade of some length, it would be a great help.
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Pdf,
I'm inclined to agree with you. (No pun intended)
Whichever way you interpret Kevin's description, that hill does seem to be rather steep!
3 meters higher and the hill was 4.2 meters long
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/slope.JPG)
Alan
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(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4719/gradientj.jpg)
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To make things funnier, the hanging rack is called Magic Rack.
LOL
And FYI:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control
Blue 2-pin = Brakes
Red 2-pin = LED lights, front and rear.
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle LEDs
Black 3-pin = Throttle
Whilte 3-pin = Pedelec
This is the new wiring solution. Very simple indeed. In case you don't know what it's for, just make sure the colours match when they connect together.
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Voltage: 48v (54.6v fully charged)
Top speed: 50 km/h
Range: 55 km (average of 35 km/h to 40 km/h)
Did you actually measure that distance travelled on a charge or is that just estimated ?
Is it a 20ah battery ? I assume it is to get that kind of range.
I took the wheel and innertube off and replaced it with my own
Yours came with a tube and tyre ? Mine didn't, sounds like my kit was missing all sorts of stuff!
To make things funnier, the hanging rack is called Magic Rack
Everyone needs to get their hands on a magic rack ;D
I worked out the wiring colour code myself with trial and error, trying to get the regen to work off the button on the throttle. Take note kids, connecting the cruise to the throttle button will result in your bike plowing through your garage wall. :D
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Voltage: 48v (54.6v fully charged)
Top speed: 50 km/h
Range: 55 km (average of 35 km/h to 40 km/h)
Did you actually measure that distance travelled on a charge or is that just estimated ?
Is it a 20ah battery ? I assume it is to get that kind of range.
I took the wheel and innertube off and replaced it with my own
Yours came with a tube and tyre ? Mine didn't, sounds like my kit was missing all sorts of stuff!
To make things funnier, the hanging rack is called Magic Rack
Everyone needs to get their hands on a magic rack ;D
I worked out the wiring colour code myself with trial and error, trying to get the regen to work off the button on the throttle. Take note kids, connecting the cruise to the throttle button will result in your bike plowing through your garage wall. :D
about the range it was a 12 ah 48v battery and I did pedal with it. im going to test it without pedaling today if you don't mind.
I also worked out the colour code myself and got 2 flashes as the cruise wires touched eachother.
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I took the wheel and innertube off and replaced it with my own
Yours came with a tube and tyre ? Mine didn't, sounds like my kit was missing all sorts of stuff!
The tube and tyres were not part of the kit. However tom sent it to him anyway.
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You are missing a LOT of important data, so your stats don't mean much.
1. What is the verified laden weight (both bike and rider)?
2. How was the acceleration tests performed, and WHO helped you 'time' the runs?
3. Hill climbs MUST include accurate slope measurements - including both angle and distance.
1. Bike + Rider = 80 kg
2. We used a stopwatch(we my mom and I)
3. srry about that there're no hills known here in the neighbourhood.
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Pdf,
I'm inclined to agree with you. (No pun intended)
Whichever way you interpret Kevin's description, that hill does seem to be rather steep!
3 meters higher and the hill was 4.2 meters long
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/slope.JPG)
Alan
the hill was steep! I don't know how steep but you'll not find a steeper hill here.
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That is not a hill on any road I can picture. That is a loading ramp.
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haha lol it isn't even a road.
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It would be nice to have a challenge between standard GM motor vs Magic Pie, using same bike setup (same bike + same battery) 500W; 750W; 1000W and compare the results ???
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I have a bike with a front GM 500w hub and now a rear Magic Pie so I could mount them both on the one bike to test. COULD, but at the moment I don't have the time to do so. What I will do later though is make a video of a race between 2 bikes using the same battery pack and the same rider.
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That acceleration is awesome, this is what I was waiting for with the larger diameter hub. Fast take offs is this BLCD hubs grace IMO, especially being gearless.
I always thought gears can be usless weight if they can be replaced by poles. top speed and efficiency is then up to the design of good electronics.
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To make things funnier, the hanging rack is called Magic Rack.
LOL
And FYI:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control
Blue 2-pin = Brakes
Red 2-pin = LED lights, front and rear.
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle LEDs
Black 3-pin = Throttle
Whilte 3-pin = Pedelec
This is the new wiring solution. Very simple indeed. In case you don't know what it's for, just make sure the colours match when they connect together.
Nice to see you attend these board Yao. You do have some very good forum members. The Pie is starting show some good qualities. Congrats on the new product.
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Oh right you're the ES member as well. lol.
I do come online to my forums from time to time. but I tend to run away when it gets technical, but luckily there's BikeMad to help me out. ;)
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I think most people here would also be on the endless sphere forums as well. It's a great resource with alot of very knowledgeable members if you have more than a passing interest in all things ebike related.
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Oh right you're the ES member as well. lol.
I do come online to my forums from time to time. but I tend to run away when it gets technical, but luckily there's BikeMad to help me out. ;)
I've been a GM member and a golden motor fanboi longer than I have been at ES. Yes I am a happy ES member too. GM forums and members are awesome and I am guessing better with the staff.
Cheers.
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Does anyone with this setup have any quantitative information about the performance of it on a grade? For example, you might report %grade it can climb, motor-only.
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I could take a picture of a hill that it could climb but no specific grade about the hill.
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I could take a picture of a hill that it could climb but no specific grade about the hill.
Yes I nice picture of a hill is what I need tonight. :D..
LOL its ok, if you want to, it would be nice to get an idea as it sounds really steep.
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We need a couple of references too.
Take a yard-stick (meter stick?) and tape a string to it,
then hang it from something 10 yards (meters, please specify)
away from the camera so we can judge level and
the scale.
You should also measure the linear distance to some landmark at
or near the top of the hill so we can use trig. to get the slope.
Better yet, give us the Longitude and Lattitude and we can look
at it on google earth!
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there are no hills here for cars or bicycles, just some MTB trails in the woods wich make googling almost impossible.
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about the yards and stuff, you mean like a dragrace(600 meters or so) with the ebike?
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Still interested in some quantitative indication of the hill-climbing ability of this setup, if any of the early-adopters have some experience. Thanks in advance.
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I think this is the best motor for hills that goldenmotor offers right now.
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I've heard from the GM folks that this motor is supposed to be a good hill climber.
I am interseted in quantitative data I can compare to other motors. On another board I suggested people find the equilibrium speed of different motor/controller/battery/weight combinations at different grades without pedaling. That way, we can see that motor X will climb a 8% grade at 12 mph but motor Y can't climb an 8% grade and reach an equilibrium speed. Perhaps motor Y can reach an equilibrium speed on a 4% grade, for example. That way, we can infer that motor X is better at hill climbing than motor Y.
I am curious how this motor/controller combination compares with others. Most of the information on motors climbing hills is vague on the details and amounts to statements like "this motor is great at climbing hills". What one person might think is great would be different for another so I am interested in quantitative information; speed, grade, weight, controller, battery capacity and discharge rate, etc.
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I cannot gather that information as I don't have hills here. sorry
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That "Comparison Table" between motors is good. However is missing Torque Power of Magic Pie which is very relevant... :-\
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yes it is
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I had my Pie out for a run today. I run at 48v on a trike. Lots of hills here.
I had the Pie shut down on a long hill. I had just reached the hill top and was on the way down doing regen for 50 Yds.
I think the shut down was from overheating after the long hill (150 yds. 20% grade.)
It came back alive after 10 min of setting. The motor was just warm on the outside but the inside must have been really hot. I don't see how the controller heat can get out of the case fast. It's just dead air inside the Pie.
I would guess I was at 1500 W for 3 min to do it in.
I am going to do the run again with instrumentation attached to see where the limit is.
Does anyone know the internal temperature shutdown setting inside the Pie?
Outside air was 70 Degrees F and 5 MPH on the hill.
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You have the FIRST front MP that we have ever seen. That makes ~5 people that have ever seen an actual MP :-\
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It's really a back MP. The fork is modified to be wider to fit the rear PM.
Later today I also put a 400w geared motor (5-10MPH) and chain on the freewheel. I use it as a low speed boost to get up 30%+ hills. It is also good for laying patches of rubber as I start out.:)
Pics and videos to come next weekend.... ;D
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Are you sure it was the heat in the hub?
your ride is nice but a little heavier than most. I am concerned about the internal controller it may not of been the hill but the 50 yard regen. The contoller has over current shut down too I think, maybe it mistaken the regen for current draw and with the hard regen action, being a big ride you have may of triggered it to shut down the controller.
The added motor just may not help what is happening and I hope this gets sorted.
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Is that some delicious looking pie I see?
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After the shutdown the motor would not restart even after many power on-off resets.
The outside case also kept getting warmer as it set so the heat transfer inside to outside case was slow as expected.
How about some info from the factory.... What is the internal thermal shutdown temperature setting?
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It's really a back MP. The fork is modified to be wider to fit the rear PM.
Later today I also put a 400w geared motor (5-10MPH) and chain on the freewheel. I use it as a low speed boost to get up 30%+ hills. It is also good for laying patches of rubber as I start out.:)
Pics and videos to come next weekend.... ;D
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1424.0;attach=1312;image)
Hey, that's a neat front end you made. I see potential for multi-geared/motored variations ..FUN :D
What IS the high temp shutdown on an MP?
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The motor was just warm on the outside but the inside must have been really hot. I don't see how the controller heat can get out of the case fast. It's just dead air inside the Pie.
I did come across this solution if it's of any use:
(http://lakeland.scene7.com/is/image/Lakeland/7647?$normal2$)
Apparently it's specially designed to let any excess heat escape easily from the Pie.
I would guess I was at 1500 W for 3 min
As I'm not too familiar with microwave settings, I thought I'd check to see what the gas mark equivalent of 1500W is.
According to the recipe, you're not supposed to cook Magic Pies, it clearly states "refrigerate for about 3 hours": Magic Pie Recipe (http://www.theppk.com/recipes/dbrecipes/index.php?RecipeID=223)
I bet the freshly baked Pie gave off a lovely smell though.
Alan
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After the shutdown the motor would not restart even after many power on-off resets.
The outside case also kept getting warmer as it set so the heat transfer inside to outside case was slow as expected.
How about some info from the factory.... What is the internal thermal shutdown temperature setting?
Ahh OK. Yes I agree with that thermal shutdown was likely and now thinking about it, probably saved the controller.
The MP may never intended to have such an awesome design and heavy load set upon her with such a hilly environment.
I see no problem with relocating the controller outside the hub if there is a real need for it.
Or that motor you have modded there will do the trick. For me I would be more inclinded to mover the controller or even use my stock GM controller and just connect the phase wires and hall wires up.
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It's 100Degrees Celsius. I think the load may be too much. It was designed for a 25KG bike and a 75KG rider anyway. How much does the trike weigh? If it goes over 130KG I suggest 2 rear MPs instead. Can't risk any burnt controller because if it burns, you will never find a way to replace it from the outside. Take a look at our Electric Passenger Trike. It carries a load of up to 1000KGs and it runs at 100kph. Just take a look at the video, 5 jokers on a small car, and it still runs with no problems. 0.0
However, for your single passenger vehicle, I think one Magic Pie would do. But after you stated the sensitive word "Hill", then... it brings me back to the memories of burnt mini motors due to riders that thought 250W was enough to do them 25kph uphill with a load of 120KG. do the math. So perhaps... 2 MPs should do the trick. And if you are wish to try it out, i'll put a duo drive package link for you, the shipping cost will be saved and I could also do a discount on the bundle. The trick in this duo drive is our connector. It connects the two Magic Pies to one battery.
Well i've tried the duo drive on the GIANT bike, one front and one rear Magic Pie. yeah I didn't post pictures, im srry. The strength was enormous and I'm kinda guessing that you would need that to successfully climb hills at a stable speed. I will not recommend duo drive on a 2 wheeler as you would be performing acrobatics on a trip to the hospital.
Anyway to follow up on your issue, I am 100% certain it's not the HEAT that caused it to trip, it's the CURRENT. The max amps on MP is 25, taking into calculation the weight and the strength of your battery, 1300N X 120 X 48V X 3.142... alright I don't know what i'm talking about. But the thing is, the current is too large and the Magic Pie was trippin, so it shut itself down. But could you inform me about the weight of the trike (Without the rider) and the battery you are using and also the gradient of the hill you climbed. As well as how long before you can operate it again.
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That dual drive sounds interesting Yao, can you tell a bit more about it? I don't see it listed on the website, is it a new development?
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i've posted some pics in another post but I think I will post them here to, and more
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and more
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;D
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:o