Author Topic: MagicPie-4  (Read 17579 times)

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
MagicPie-4
« on: May 31, 2014, 01:05:09 PM »
Hi All,

Are there any plans for MagicPie-4?

Thank you!

Offline Aliasssss

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 05:16:12 AM »
Hey mate.

As a totally pleased MP III owner and user, totally as in 101%, and considering that a 4th generation of pies must bring something new, something better, what new technology can a 4th gen of pies bring to the market? Latest MP III versions are just awesome, has the power, has the speed, and oh boy it has the torque! So, could the best be made any better? Sorry, I just had to ask ;)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 08:04:05 AM by Aliasssss »

Offline rkts

  • Confirmed
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2014, 12:31:18 PM »
I've heard some unconfirmed rumors that MP5 (4 is unlucky number in China) will use sine-wave internal controller.
It would be really nice feature especially if it would be possible to swap existing MP3 controller with new one.

Offline Aliasssss

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 05:57:57 PM »
Yes everybody can walk the walk and talk the talk, but until we can get our hands on it ... it remains fiction...

Anyway what would be the advantages of a sine wave controller? If I'm not mistaking the MP III internal controller uses square wave ... anyone???

Offline Morgen 3Eman

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 620
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 04:05:24 PM »
Sine wave powered BLDC motors are typically much quieter.  They don't have the high frequency whine square wave driven motors exhibit.


TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Pwd

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 12:44:48 PM »

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 03:42:10 PM »
Why was it not announced?

Offline Morgen 3Eman

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 620
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 05:08:29 PM »
I just want to thank Gary for being so straightforward about the risk of running it on a "48" volt battery.   Maybe GM China should be told about it....


TTFN,
Dennis



Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,499
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 05:25:52 PM »
What risk are you talking about Dennis, did I miss something in this thread?

Alan
 

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 05:27:31 PM »
Quote
I just want to thank Gary for being so straightforward about the risk of running it on a "48" volt battery.   Maybe GM China should be told about it....

Why there is a risk of running it in on 48V battery?

BTW#1, is there are the performance/speed/power charts for these motors?

BTW#2, why cannot find these motors on the GM China site? Are they available already? What's the lead time?

Offline Morgen 3Eman

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 620
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 11:07:49 PM »
Hi Alan, 

This was at the bottom of the page:"


PLEASE NOTE: This motor is recommended to be run with a 24, 36 or 48 volt battery. A fully charged 48 volt battery can read as high as 58 volt and the controller will still function up to 59.9 volts. If you attempt to run this motor with a battery over 48 volts you will burn the fets that are rated at 63 volts max. A fully charged 60 volt battery can read as high as 69 volts and will fry the controller as soon as you apply power. For a warranty controller replacement you must send it back to us for inspection. If the fets are burnt from over volting your warranty is void.

Gary Salo

Golden Motor Canada"

I disagree with Gary's evaluation of the  high voltage failure mode, however.  The MP3 controllers that failed in my use were both fitted with 63VDC rated electrolytic capacitors.  My experience tells me that if you subject electrolytics to voltages within about 10-15% of their  max voltage rating you will experience cap failures at a higher rate than lower stressed caps.    I am quite confident that if I had used the 36VDC battery I would not have had a problem.  Do you remember anyone complaining about a fried MP3 controller running at 36V?  24V? 

I think the FETs I found in the controllers were rated for several hundred volts. 


I would be willing to bet a small amount that the engineer that came up with such a gorgeous design does not approve running those caps at "48" volts. ( about 58V actual volts)

TTFN,
Dennis



Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 01:33:06 AM »
As for MP4 vs MP3, are there any cons in MP4 (beside its pros)?

Will MP4 work with external BLDC Controller (let's say the same one as MP3 would be)?

Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,499
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 10:59:03 AM »
Will MP4 work with external BLDC Controller (let's say the same one as MP III would be)?

Assuming it's just the controller that is different it may not make any difference if you wish to use an external controller.
Although, if the new sine wave controller is sensorless then it would not require hall sensors, but we won't know whether it still uses hall sensors until we can find a bit more information on it.

Even if it doesn't have hall sensors, you could still use a sensorless external controller as the stator windings are unlikely to be any different to the MPIII.

Quote from: GM Canada
This motor is recommended to be run with a 24, 36 or 48 volt battery.

Dennis, what Gary was try to get across is the fact that it should not be used with a battery with a nominal voltage of more than 48V. Because the controller is described as being able to accept voltages of up to 60 volts maximum, some people will wrongly assume that it is OK to run it from a 60V battery, but as we know, this wouldn't work.

There are probably thousands of MPIIIs running on 48V packs without problem. The early MPIII controllers did have some teething problems, but the later replacement controllers still seem to work fine, so there should be no concerns about running on 48V packs.

I have run all of my GM motors on my 51.2V LiPo pack without any problem (apart from the dual controller attempt where one controller died instantly and the other surviving controller that was further modified eventually blew many months later while delivering over 97Amps)

Do you remember anyone complaining about a fried MP III controller running at 36V?  24V?

Many of the failed MPIII and Smart Pie controllers I've seen on the forum have been caused by water ingress.

Alan

 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:58:51 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Pwd

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2014, 12:30:32 AM »
I am curious. Has anyone tried the new Magic Pie Vector yet? There is also a Smart Pie version out now.

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2014, 08:46:53 AM »
As for SmartPie, is it less powerful, isn't it?