GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Balderdash on December 10, 2009, 05:00:39 PM
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I've noted the connector/wire colours in the Magic Pie kit which I hope someone finds useful if they cut off the connectors like I did! ;)
There are prizes :D for the person who can tell me what the spare yellow wire from the Magic Pie controller does?
Magic Pie Connectors/Colours (Wire Colours)
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Multi-core Cable from Wheel/Pie:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (black/orange+rusty red)
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control (black/grey)
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (black/blue)
White 3-pin = Pedelec (red/black/brown)
Red 2-pin = LED lights power supply (rusty red+black)
Cable from Throttle:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (green/black)
No connector = Light Switch/Red Button (yellow/brown)
Cable from Brakes:
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (red/blue)
Cable from Extra-Handlebar Buttons:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control/Red Button (red/yellow)
No connector = Horn/Green Button (green/blue)
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I've noted the connector/wire colours in the Magic Pie kit which I hope someone finds useful if they cut off the connectors like I did! ;)
There are prizes :D for the person who can tell me what the spare yellow wire from the Magic Pie controller does?
Magic Pie Connectors/Colours (Wire Colours)
-------------------------------------------
Multi-core Cable from Wheel/Pie:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (black/orange+rusty red)
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control (black/grey)
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (black/blue)
White 3-pin = Pedelec (red/black/brown)
Red 2-pin = LED lights power supply (rusty red+black)
Cable from Throttle:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (green/black)
No connector = Light Switch/Red Button (yellow/brown)
Cable from Brakes:
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (red/blue)
Cable from Extra-Handlebar Buttons:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control/Red Button (red/yellow)
No connector = Horn/Green Button (green/blue)
I think this yelow wire is for a Gm speedo meter.
I could be wrong.
If I am right wots my prize?
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I think this yelow wire is for a Gm speedo meter.
I could be wrong.
If I am right wots my prize?
An unused PAS/pedelec sensor... ;)
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There are prizes :D for the person who can tell me what the spare yellow wire from the Magic Pie controller does?
Jim,
Now this yellow wire is useless,unmeaning,but in future we may need this one and add a function
Does this mean that TOM gets the prizes, or did the small print state that GM Employees were not allowed to enter the competition?
I think Yao and TOM had their own competition, to see how long it took before someone asked about the mysterious Yellow wire! ;D
Well at least now we know it's not supposed to be connected to anything.
Alan
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Yes, sorry Tom, the very small print excluded employees and suppliers of GM ;)
So we still have the mystery of whether the Magic Pie controller has the alarm or wheel lock functions available? And which lights does it flash instead of the "beep" - the throttle LED's or bike lights?
There may be more hidden secrets of the Magic Pie...
PS Have you received your pie yet, Alan? I'm surprised more people haven't been posting reviews...
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Yes, sorry Tom, the very small print excluded employees and suppliers of GM ;)
So we still have the mystery of whether the Magic Pie controller has the alarm or wheel lock functions available? And which lights does it flash instead of the "beep" - the throttle LED's or bike lights?
There may be more hidden secrets of the Magic Pie...
PS Have you received your pie yet, Alan? I'm surprised more people haven't been posting reviews...
Hehe
This is like learning about a womans Gspots. Press here and get a suprise, touch that and who knows what that will do. I stop while I am ahead, huh!.
The mystery function is GPS laser guided missile. :o
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PS Have you received your pie yet, Alan? I'm surprised more people haven't been posting reviews...
It's just arrived today ;D, but I haven't had chance to find out what's inside the box yet, apparently, fitting the new dishwasher and sorting a problem with the heating is more important.
(That's female logic for you!)
Anyway, I expect the Magic Pie is still tired after its 5000+ mile journey, so a rest should do it good, but I will hopefully post some pics when I get chance to unpack it.
Alan
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Tom should get some credit for the conjugation of meaning
to 'unmeaning' in his post.
Its a great word, I plan to use it anyplace unmeaingfullness
(unmeaninglessness?) can be used.
:)
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SORRY GUYS FOR ME GOING TO BECOME A FILTHY SPOILER IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
THE YELLOW WIRE IS A MYSTERIOUS ANCIENT ARTIFACT... and guess what?
It is supposed to be connected to a ...
a)Horn
b)Computer via USB to configure internal controller settings.
c)Pedelec torque sensor
d)2nd battery pack
e)Detonator
f)Cheese Cake
g)Duo Drive Synchronization system
h)Alan
i)Tom
j)Me
k)You
Guessy guessy,
there is a very very very very obvious hint in this post. So obvious.
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Hummm
I would "kick" (an brazilian expression to guessing an answer) the A, B or G....
I get the C, as this kit should also have the european version, so, it necessary to have this in the system.
YAO!!! When the cruise control will use the regen system to keep the speed at downhills too? This should be a very very nice technology for hilly areas!
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I'm sorry dude, the correct answer is the letter that is coloured.
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Reeeealy good Yao.
I was already sure about choosing GM, more and more is getting better.
This feature will works only on kits to come or on the actual kits people will be able to enable this feature when it is ready?
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kits to come, a few more months, but I guess it not much use for americans because in the end, people are only going to use it to tune down the top speed for european users, as well as lower the max amps that the controller would accept before the protection trips and shuts down everything for people in the sahara desert.
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Cool!
But how does that work from just one wire ? Do you pulse codes to it ?
I guess you get the voltage and ground from other wiring but wouldn't you need 2 additional wires for tx and rx ?
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Maybe we assume we only need to upload to the chip.
???
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yep, there's a small RAM in the controller.
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But how does that work from just one wire ? Do you pulse codes to it ?
I guess you get the voltage and ground from other wiring but wouldn't you need 2 additional wires for tx and rx ?
You only need RX/TX if you are doing bi-directional communication.
Even then, you could use a logic high (rts) to cause the onboard chip to re-allocate
other lines for RX/TX/CTS.
That would be awesome.
If there was a small flash memory in there then you could
log data and upload it to the computer when you plug in a
serial connector.
Totals for time, current, and distance, as well as last trip
data would be wonderful. I would love to know how far my
bike has run in the last year.
PS: Yao, you do realize that some of us are color blind, so we
can't tell that one of the letters is colored, right?
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... :-X
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Because I have no need for the headlight switch for my lighting system and led lights for my application due to a turnigy meter is it possible to switch out the throttle controller yellow 2 pin green wire with the brown wire and plug it in to the blue 2 pin connector from the multi core cable to be able to use the headlight switch as an on/off button? I tried this but cannot get continuity from the switch from either the brown or yellow wire or a combo of each. Any way to achieve this? Thanks in advance, Mabman
I've noted the connector/wire colours in the Magic Pie kit which I hope someone finds useful if they cut off the connectors like I did! ;)
There are prizes :D for the person who can tell me what the spare yellow wire from the Magic Pie controller does?
Magic Pie Connectors/Colours (Wire Colours)
-------------------------------------------
Multi-core Cable from Wheel/Pie:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (black/orange+rusty red)
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control (black/grey)
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (black/blue)
White 3-pin = Pedelec (red/black/brown)
Red 2-pin = LED lights power supply (rusty red+black)
Cable from Throttle:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (green/black)
No connector = Light Switch/Red Button (yellow/brown)
Cable from Brakes:
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (red/blue)
Cable from Extra-Handlebar Buttons:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control/Red Button (red/yellow)
No connector = Horn/Green Button (green/blue)
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Because I have no need for the headlight switch for my lighting system and led lights for my application due to a turnigy meter is it possible to switch out the throttle controller yellow 2 pin green wire with the brown wire and plug it in to the blue 2 pin connector from the multi core cable to be able to use the headlight switch as an on/off button? I tried this but cannot get continuity from the switch from either the brown or yellow wire or a combo of each. Any way to achieve this? Thanks in advance, Mabman
Mabman,
I'm slightly confused as to what you're trying to achieve exactly.
Are you trying to use the light switch to simply turn the battery meter on and off?
Or are you trying to use it to enable and disable the throttle action?
The switch on the throttle control simply makes or breaks a connection between the Brown and Yellow wires coming from it and should only be used to switch low currents (less than one Amp) and could be wired to perform either of the two functions above (but not both).
Under no circumstances should you connect the Brown and Yellow wires from the light switch between the blue 2 pin "brake switch" connector and the Yellow 2 pin Battery supply to the battery meter.
This would cause damage to the switch or wiring harness and possibly the speed controller itself inside the hub!
If you're not really sure what you're doing, It might be better to leave things well alone until you've found out a bit more.
Alan
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Thanks BikeMad, that is exactly what I was doing by posting I thought? Trying to find out more. I haven't done anything yet so not to worry I was just trying to get an answer to my simple minded question and thanks for that!
I will not proceed with plan A then as per your post. Sounds like it would have been a real disaster! But I still need to have a motor cutoff switch of some sort at the bar that will replace the fact that I do not have the brakes with their switches? In other words what could I do to come off the blue connector that will activate the stop motor feature you get with the stock brakes?
Thanks for your time in helping out. I appreciate it and all the info that I am gathering from this forum.
Mabman
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G'day Mabman,
Although I don't have a GM motor or controller I had a similar situation when I fitted hydraulic brakes to my bike, no break cutoff and no emergency cutoff if the throttle got stuck on full. So what I did was I had a light switch and I just connected that to the breat cutoff line. After all inside the stock e-bike break lever is just a switch. The only difference now is you can set it to always on or always off. I did put is right next to the throttle so I could push it quickly if necessary.
Muzza.
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But I still need to have a motor cutoff switch of some sort at the bar that will replace the fact that I do not have the brakes with their switches? In other words what could I do to come off the blue connector that will activate the stop motor feature you get with the stock brakes?
Mabman,
The light switch could be used to achieve this function, but I would not recommend a latching switch (push on push off) for this purpose because of the regen (regenerative braking) function of the Magic Pie. If you had to accelerate away from traffic lights etc. and suddenly found yourself without any motor assistance and having to pedal much harder to overcome the effects of the regen, you would quickly discover why the lighting switch is not recommended. ;)
A much better solution would be to use the horn switch on the cruise control unit instead. This would still cut the motor power and operate the regen, but only while the horn button remains pressed, ensuring the regen will only be activated when you choose to use it.
All you need to do is connect the Blue and Green wires from the horn switch to the Blue and Black wires on the Blue 2 pin Brake connector and it should work fine.
Alan
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Thanks Gentlemen. That does answer my question nicely. I hear what you are saying about the on/off switch Bikemad but I actually kind of like the idea that a switch at the bars will stop the motor from working with the regen on. That way it would at least take someone having to activate the switch to mess with the bike and not just hit the throttle? But if the switch is put on say going down a hill and the regen activates acting as a brake (and a powerful one I suppose) I could see a problem there perhaps and by using the horn button instead you could bump it a bit as a brake also along with the emergency cutoff necessary.
That all helps but now to the BIG problem I just discovered. I have a fully charged and balanced 48v 12AH Lifepo4 reading 54.9v hooked up to the motor (goes beep beep beep) then with the black to black pin connectors the only ones on the controller wire that I connected and tried it for the first time a few minutes ago there is no throttle response from either the supplied twist or thumb throttles ??? Then I hooked up the yellow to yellow (stock wiring) and I get lights at the throttle no problem but still no response?
Although I was asking about the yellow to blue connection earlier I never did this in anyway other than via concept, that is when I thought I had better ask here for advice before continuing because I know from past experience that there is no substitute for asking a second opinion.
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Yeah, I forgot about regen. A momentary switch would be better in that instance.
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I have a fully charged and balanced 48v 12AH Lifepo4 reading 54.9v hooked up to the motor (goes beep beep beep) then with the black to black pin connectors the only ones on the controller wire that I connected and tried it for the first time a few minutes ago there is no throttle response from either the supplied twist or thumb throttles ??? Then I hooked up the yellow to yellow (stock wiring) and I get lights at the throttle no problem but still no response?
Mabman,
Three beeps is a throttle problem, I suggest you check out this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1626.msg8134#msg8134) and see if you find any obvious faults with the throttle connector wiring.
Let us know how you get on.
Alan
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Will do BikeMad. You da man. You wouldn't happen to be living next door would you? As a neighbor you would come in mighty handy, well at least you are here and that is a big help to those of us that can't exist without written instructions, you know like the ones that don't come with the "kit" ;D
At some point I suppose that a person could just go through the archives here and put together at least a FAQ section for the new folks to go through and not have to ask the same questions over and over. I suppose I could have used the search function also...
UPDATE: The wiring seems ok. I unhooked everything and just plugged the battery lead to the motor (no controller) and get the 3 beeps?
UPDATE 2: Ok, after getting back to this I have checked all the voltages and they seem to be in order across the board (including pedelec check) as per the other post. The only thing I cannot figure out how to get a reading on the throttle when in the open position with the 3-pin connector connected? Unfortunately this is the part that I need to know about :-[ The only thing odd that I can find is that the black connector coming from the controller as listed above says red, white and black and mine has a 4th rust colored wire in with the red one. In order to keep this straight I will make a list, because my camera is broken also :(. (note to self, order waterproof camera case):
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Multi-core cable from Mabman's MP
Black 3-pin = 1)red/rust = Where the red jumps to white three pin and rust comes from the core
2)white = Comes from core
3)black/black = Where one black jumps to yellow 2-pin and one comes from the core
Yellow 2-pin = 1)purple/light brown = Where the purple comes from the core and the light brown jumps to red 2-pin
2)black/black = Where one jumps from black 2-pin and one jumps to blue 2-pin
Green 2-pin = 1)green = Comes from core
2)black/black Where one jumps to blue 2-pin and the other jumps to red 2-pin
Blue 2-pin = 1)blue = comes from core
2)black/black = jump to green 2-pin/Jump to yellow 2-pin
White 3-pin = 1)red = jump from black 2-pin
2)black = jump to red 2-pin
3)lavender = from core
Red 2-pin = 1)light brown = jump from yellow 2-pin
2)black/black = jump to green 2-pin/jump to white 3-pin
The biggest difference I see from Balderdash's list is the black 3 pin that has a rust wire from the core. I guess you could call it red if it wasn't for the wire that is paired with and jumps to the pedelec is red?
So once I get this sorted out I have another issue looming. The connection between the throttle cable and additional wires needed and the controller cable is going to need to be much tidier as it will be necessary to connect/disconnect the two quickly and be waterproof. I am assuming, once again not paying as much attention as I could have to electrical details over the years, that I will be able to fit a pin connector similar to the one that connects to the motor/controller on the other end of it and another to the throttle and additional wires once I get it sorted out just how many wires I will require at the handlebars?
Once again thanks for any assistance regarding this.
Mabman
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I have my regen brakes wired to that red button with no problems what so ever. As said it's not momentary but you quickly get the hang of it. It's rare that I only jab the brakes for a second or so, and if I did I'd just the actual brake levers. A big benefit of it is that it acts like an 'off' switch when getting on and off the bike so you can't accidently hit the throttle. I wouldn't do it but most people I let demo my bike end up twisting the throttle as they get on. I leave the switch on (pressed in) until they're on and pedalling then tell them to flick it off and use the throttle.
It also means someone can't get on your bike and ride off or accidently bump it. I had a girl knock my bike over once while I was in the corner shop and came out to find her doing a burnout, wrestling with the bike up against the wall. I angrily said "are you right there ?!" and she says "I'm so sorry, I accidently knocked it over and I tried to pick it up and I just can't stop the wheel spinning." So yeah, if you don't have an off switch its good for that purpose too.
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So Hyena to do that did you just run the yellow/brown wires from the throttle to the blue 2-pin blue/black ones from the controller wire?
Still haven't been able to get any throttle yet.
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Well I thought I was on a roll here. I have an email in to Tom so hopefully he has an answer for me?
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I can't remember the wiring colours off the top of my head now but that sounds about right. It was definitely the blue braking plug connected to what ever wires come from the switch.
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Thanks Hyena.
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UPDATE: The wiring seems ok. I unhooked everything and just plugged the battery lead to the motor (no controller) and get the 3 beeps?
UPDATE 2: Ok, after getting back to this I have checked all the voltages and they seem to be in order across the board (including pedelec check) as per the other post. The only thing I cannot figure out how to get a reading on the throttle when in the open position with the 3-pin connector connected?
Mabman,
Plugging the battery lead to the motor with the throttle disconnected should give the 3 beeps.
You might want to raise the wheel off the ground before doing the following checks in case the motor suddenly starts.
Now plug in the cruise control button unit and hold down the red cruise button and the wheel should spin.
In order to get a reading on the throttle when in the open position with the 3-pin connector connected, you need to attach the Black meter probe to the battery negative (Ground) connection and then push your Red meter probe into the rear of the throttle connector (the cable side).
You can use bits of wire if your meter's probes are too large, but mine worked fine with a bit of gentle persuasion.
As all of the black wires on the main harness are common, I wedged the black meter lead into the rear of the centre connection on the pedelec plug (Black wire) and then held the red meter lead probe into the rear of the throttle connector on the motor side to check the red and white lead contacts. (one at a time)
You will find it's much easier than trying to get both probes into the back of the same connector.
The red lead should read somewhere around 5V, and the white lead should be similar to my readings; 0.8V on Low/No Throttle and above 3.5V on Full Throttle.
Please let us know the outcome, and use a new post rather than editing an existing one, or it may get overlooked. ;)
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Were in a Magic Pie thread talking about Magic Pies right?
I've had the pie spinning under power but not on the road yet.
But in all the messing about that I've done I've never heard any beeps come from the hub. Does yours BEEP then?
I can't check mine out now as I'm out of the UK.
Please confirm that your "Magic Pie" hub beeps.
Thanks,
Jim
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Please confirm that your "Magic Pie" hub beeps.
Jim,
My Pie certainly does beep, but not very loud. It sounds very similar to a PC which beeps during its initial start up, but quieter because it's stuck inside a sealed housing.
If I unplug the throttle and turn the power on it beeps 3 times as expected.
Alan
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Thanks Alan,
Is that the only time it beeps or does it beep iindicating other conditions also?
If so a beep fault condition table may be useful.
Cant wait to get home to finish my bike off now the snow has cleared.
Jim
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Thanks Bikemad, I received some instruction from Tom that I will try today along with your suggestions and get back when I can.
Mabman
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Well today's efforts were not totally in vain I suppose as at least I know the motor works. I followed Tom's instructions which were to use a jumper wire between two points on the controller connector and the motor spins fine doing that. I thought at first that there was perhaps a short at the junction because the motor would cut out moving the controller wire close to the junction. But I still can't get the throttle(s) to work although all the readings are as given by Bikemad (thanks for the tip on getting the readings). And trying to control the MP with a jumper wire isn't going to work :-\
At this time I have the wheel spinning away in my truing stand to do some shallow cycling of the battery using the jumper method. I would really like to be out on the road doing this. Well except for the fact that it is pouring rain at the moment here.
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Well got the throttle working finally. The only problem is that I am not sure exactly what occurred to make it start working? The last thing I did before it worked was to jump the red and white wire at the black 3 pin connector off the exposed connections in the back of the connector to see if it got the same results as jumping the corresponding 2 holes at the 8 pin. It did and then when I plugged in a throttle it worked. I still think there has to be a short in there somewhere though. I had gone over all the visible connections multiple multiple times already so I am sure it wasn't one of them.
I also plugged the yellow and brown wires in to the blue connector and the switch works fine. We will see how it does in real life and may have to go with the horn button in the end but that will be easy enough to switch out for trials.
Thanks for all the help on here and have a great day!
Mabman
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Well got the throttle working finally.
I still think there has to be a short in there somewhere though. I had gone over all the visible connections multiple multiple times already so I am sure it wasn't one of them.
Good to hear you've got your Pie back in action Mabman.(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/6_small.GIF)
I think it's unlikely to be a short, much more likely to be a crimped connector making a poor contact with a wire somewhere, but at least you can use it now.
Let's just hope it doesn't start to play up again.
Alan
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Power-connector (two pins) for Magic Pie:
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Is it right, that the isolated connector is used for PLUS and the non-isolated one is used for MINUS.
There is no description for this in the "manual" and I don't want to make anything wrong.
(For your information I don't use the original GM-Batterie.)
Thanks for help
Wolfgang ???
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Power-connector (two pins) for Magic Pie:
================================
Is it right, that the isolated connector is used for PLUS and the non-isolated one is used for MINUS.
There is no description for this in the "manual" and I don't want to make anything wrong.
Wolfgang,
The battery power cable which comes with the Magic Pie should be clearly labelled to avoid any confusion.
The exposed male connection on the battery lead is negative (should be Black) and goes to the battery -ve connection.
The recessed female connection on the battery lead is positive (should be Red) and goes to the battery +ve connection.
Please note that this is reversed on the connector fixed to the motor:
The exposed male connection on the motor lead is positive and goes to the Controller's +ve connection.
The recessed female connection on the motor lead is negative and goes to the Controller's -ve connection.
Most batteries will be clearly marked as well.
Alan
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1. There was NO BATTERY POWER CONNECTOR in the delivery of Magic Pie (bought in Nov 2009) !!!
There is only the wire coming out of the wheel with the two connections (+/-).
Therefore I have to build an own power cable and I will use YOUR INSTRUCTIONS (thanks for this, this is the o p p o s I t e of my thought, but I think you are right ;-) )
>>>>>Please note that this is reversed on the connector fixed to the motor:
>>>>>The exposed male connection on the motor lead is positive and goes to the Controller's +ve connection.
>>>>>The recessed female connection on the motor lead is negative and goes to the Controller's -ve connection.
(I wanted to check this with my measuring device but there is no connection between the case of the motor and minus, which I thought)
2. My battery has no visible cable outside its case.
On the case there is one female connector for charging the battery and a second female connector with 4 contacts. I hope the online shop will help me to take the right two contacts.
http://www.activeshop24.de/Akkus-fuer-Elektrofahrrad/36V-Spannung/LiFePO4-36V-10Ah-im-Gepaecktraeger-inkl--Gehaeuse--Ladegeraet.html
Its very bad....
Both parts, the motor and the battery, has no manual in which I can find something about this.
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1. There was NO BATTERY POWER CONNECTOR in the delivery of Magic Pie (bought in Nov 2009) !!!
There is only the wire coming out of the wheel with the two connections (+/-).
Wolfgang,
I'm assuming a battery power lead should have come with the kit as standard like mine did:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Contents.JPG)
The battery lead is shown on the right in the above picture, and is clearly labelled to avoid any confusion with the connections, and should be self explanatory.
Unfortunately it looks like they must have forgotten to put the lead in with your kit, unless you bought just the motor.
Alan
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if you buy with battery, then you get the battery cables. I didn't got cables with the kit but with the battery shipment, it was also 5cm short(2 inch)