GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: MrBulp on January 06, 2016, 06:49:51 AM
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hi guys,
anyone have try to make Magic Pie / Smart Pie as electric generator or dynamo?
may I know your setting especially the power inverter that you use to make it more stable & no power dropout during pedalling..
this is my screenshot.. I do have cheap non sine wave 12V power inverter attach to Magic Pie 5 thats been set to 24V..
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Sorry I can't help but I too would love to use my magic Pie as a power generator when I'm not riding it, particularly in the winter. It can already charge my bike's battery via regenerative braking so it must be fairly easy to output this into other things like rechargeable power banks and such. I have the K-Tor pedel generator at home but it puts out a steady 20 watts at 110v. I wonder if I could produce a much higher wattage at 36v by pedalling on my Magic Pie 4. I just don't want to damage the Magic Pie by trying this. Is it as simple as taking the output from the connector that goes to the battery? And just pedalling with the regen brake permanently on? I will keep an eye on this thread.
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Hi RooGM,
this is my setup actually.. just put Power inverter (without battery), cycle & attach any electrical devices...
for acoustics 1 man show, the power output thru inverter is about 20watt maximum as the singer didnt really shout or sing higher notes... :)
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That's very cool!
I have been using this as my pedal generator. It has all the electronics built in and it's quite easy to pedal. The circuitry allows for a range of pedalling speeds while keeping the output voltage constant, as humans cannot really pedal at a perfect consistent RPM. It produces 120V DC at 20 watts and has a standard universal outlet socket. Even though it's DC and not AC, many devices will run on 120V DC, such as electronic device chargers, CFL bulbs and LED lamps. It's easy to pedal too, giving very little resistance. I would love to be able to produce more power by pedal though and I know our legs are capable of producing much more than 20 watts. What kind of power can you produce on your setup if you pedal hard?
(http://waldenlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/k-tor-power-box-1050x626.jpg)
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nice device... but actually Magic Pie can produce more than 1500watt if you can pedal it..
well I can pedal up to 400watt (i think) since this EDGE monitor speaker being rated 400watt!
but its need to have at least 1 Lead Acid Battery for dummy in order to get consistent power supply from Magic Pie.. for below 20watt no need battery at all..
once id try to power up grinder.. rated 800watt.. success for only few seconds.. haha
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You should join endless-sphere.com if you want more info and input. Best of luck! :)
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RooGM..
i have found the sollutions.. which is.. buy the 24v Power Inverter & set Magic Pie 5 to 24v.. thats it.. you will get stable power when reach the minimal power source (have to cycle about 20++kmh) to get around 80watts that can powered 2 desk fan..
:)
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Hey that's great! 80 watts is a very useful output. You could charge a lot of electronic devices at once with that output. I like to charge as many of my devices (phone, camera, flashlight, usb power bank) as I can with my portable solar panels and sometimes with the K-Tor pedal generator but the K-tor is not that comfy to sit at for long periods, whereas a bike-based generator would be. With the Magic pie a daily workout could charge up everything in one go and in a much shorter time than with solar. 20kmh with the drag of the big Magic Pie would be a tough workout though.
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id already success test the conventional normal way to create generator using Magic Pie 5 hub... take out the controller & connect the 3 wires to Bridge Rectifier (35a 400v) then connect to inverter...
more power can get, I think with this method compare to connect inverter to Magic Pie internal controller..
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There is video on the internet that shows someone using an older model GM hub motor sourced very inexpensively to accomplish power generation. It should be pretty good and efficient with these large motors as opposed to smaller ones. I think geared hub motors my provide even more generation with their reduction gears in addition to those on your bike.
Please remember that you will want to add a series of capacitors to smooth out your power delivery. This is useful so that you will have power still delivered to your inverter for a short period of time even if you do not pedal--depends on the number of capacitors you enable. Like a buffer.
@Mr. Bulp, that's pretty creative thinking. I hope you manage to make good use of it!
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Take out the controller & connect the 3 wires to Bridge Rectifier (35a 400v) then connect to inverter...
A single three phase regulator would have made the wiring a lot easier:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/D6cAAOSwk1JWd3O-/$_12.JPG) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281890860095)
(Click on image for more information)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/3%20phase%20rectifier_zpshkc9aiqv.JPG)
And you would only need 5 wires/connectors instead of twelve, and just one regulator instead of three.
Although, your way does have some benefits - it doubles the current capability of each rectifier to 70 Amps and almost trebles the heat dissipation! ;)
I think your original suggestion of using a 12v battery as a buffer would be far more beneficial than using capacitors, as you could simply charge it up by pedalling while the inverter was not being used and it would hold the stored energy a lot longer than capacitors would.
Alan
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hi Alan,
well.. I cant get yet that 3 phase bridge rectifier in 1 piece as you show there locally.. will update when I can get it..
id manage to cycle to support 170watts of power, a combination of empty blender & two desk fan.. in 24v its harder to maintain cycle 20kmh with the heavy resistant! haha
by the way.. great photo editing there Alan! :)
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As Alan stated, a couple of 12V SLA batteries (in series) would be a great buffer and work well for storing some unused energy that is generated by your makeshift dynamo.
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I thought I'd give this a try and bought a 24V inverter. The problem is my Magic Pie puts out 48v+ even when set to 24v in the software. Is there something wrong with my Pie? How are you getting yours to limit the voltage to 24v? My power inverter shuts off when overvoltage is detected (28-32v). I should add that I can get a 24v output if I have a multimeter hooked up and be careful with how much I'm pedalling but I don't think that's how you are doing it. Shouldn't I just be able to pedal as hard as I am comfortable with and expect the voltage to stay close to 24v?
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hi RooGM
have you success to settle your Magic Pie problem?
well.. last time when I still have my Magic Pie 4 Controller set at 48volt.. I hook it directly to 12volt 800watt (no sine wave stabilizer) sometimes I can get the "kick"... sometimes I cant.. what I do is I change the gear ratio of my racing bicycle.. sometimes I cycle very fast sometimes slow since I not yet have Magic Pie 4 display meter...
with Magic Pie 5... id just set it to 24v within app thru bluetooth thats after id upgrade / flash the firmware to the latest version (you can get it thru Golden Motor Canada)..
let the power switch on & change gear ratio until there is "kick"... well when you feel harden (resistant) then maintain the cycle speed & gear ratio that you use..
if your inverter have 2 led indicator 1 for power (usually green) will turn on no matter how strong you cycle & 1 more for power source (red led) this is the warning light for overvoltage & if the "battery" is full or not (you have to maintain cycle speed to make this led red light warning turn off)
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What I'm going to do with mine is run the Magic Pie output into a solar charge controller and that should give me a smooth 24v output into my 2 12V SLA batteries (wired in series for 24V) and then into my 24V 500W inverter. I have already tested running appliances just with the Magic Pie and the inverter and as long as I maintain a steady voltage of 26-30v the inverter stays on. I can comfortably put out a sustained power of about 280 watts. This is really exciting to me as I like to exercise for an hour per day anyway and being able use that energy to put all those watt hours into a battery bank is really cool. To put it into perspective, 280 watts is enough to simultaneously charge over 50 iPhones.
I will be putting the energy into my SLA batteries and using them to charge all my devices (phones, laptop, LED lamps, camera gear, flashlights, two-way radios, portable power banks etc.). I can even use some of the energy to charge my e-bike battery. Technically if I pedal-charged my e-bike battery it would be a 100% human powered electric bike. I also have some solar panels I get power from but there isn't always enough sun.
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Here's what I have learned today in my experiements:
1. With a 24v battery (or 2 x 12v in series) between the Magic Pie output and the Inverter it is much easier to get a steady voltage around 24-26v when pedalling. With the battery in place it takes a serious pedalling effort to push the voltage up high enough to trip the voltage overload on the inverter. So no worries about this. This is good.
2. Setting the Magic Pie controller to 24v via the software makes no difference to the output. No matter whether you set it to 24v, 36v or 48v, the voltage output is the same when pedalling. This is also good as I don't need to change the voltage setting every time I switch from riding my bike to using it as a generator.
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My Solar charge controller came today and it works great! It's a very inexpensive model (only $26 CAD) but it does exactly what I need from it. It detects the battery voltage and adjusts the charge voltage accordingly. It's amazing actually because when connected to one 12v battery I can pedal quite hard and the voltage remains around 13v. When I connect two 12v batteries in series for 24v and pedal at the same rate the voltage keeps to around 25v. I have a voltage monitor on my Bike that's independent of the charge controller and even that stays around 13v or 25v so I believe the charge controller is not stepping down the voltage to maintain a steady output, instead it is drawing more or less current as it needs, in order to keep close to the right charging voltage for the whichever battery configuration is connected.
So I'm running two 12v batteries in parallel, charging via the Magic Pie + charge controller and running a 300W 12V inverter from the batteries. 12v inverters are much easier to find and much cheaper than 24v inverters and with a charge controller in the circuit there is no need for a 24v unit.
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hi RooGM,
thank you for sharing your experience with Solar Charge Controller.. will try it if I have enough fund to buy it here..
i wonder if I can connect 2 Magic Pie as generator to have the same output thru only 1 inverter...
the reasons is, to cut cost for inverter.. haha :)
have anybody try to wiring 2 Magic Pie to 1 inverter? with battery or without it..
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I don't understand what you mean about cutting the cost of the inverter by connecting two Magic Pies. Can you explain? You can power one 24v inverter from one Magic Pie. And if you add a solar charge controller and a 12v battery you can power a 12v inverter which is cheaper than a 24v one.
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@RooGM,
Nice going with your plans! You should now charge your eBike battery pack(s) with the MP in dynamo mode. Then use that stored energy for assisted bike rides. SLA batteries are not offer too many duty cycles, but if you are just using them in a "buffer" mode between the inverter and dynamo would it last quite a bit longer?
I would like to create a comfortable recumbent setup where people in the media room can watch a movie and pedal at the same time creating enough power to drive all electronics.
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I feel like I hijacked your thread, Mr. Bulp so I have posted details of my generator setup in a new thread here: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5904.0
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I don't understand what you mean about cutting the cost of the inverter by connecting two Magic Pies. Can you explain? You can power one 24v inverter from one Magic Pie. And if you add a solar charge controller and a 12v battery you can power a 12v inverter which is cheaper than a 24v one.
hi RooGM,
i got the answer from Solar Panel diagram... so I guess I have to buy Solar Charger Controller to "save" some money for inverter...
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You can get a really basic and cheap charge controller, such as this one for $13 CAD: https://www.amazon.ca/Docooler-Controller-Battery-Regulator-Protection/dp/B00L37KZI6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1458834030&sr=8-3&keywords=charge+controller
I'm using this one which I got on sale for $36. It has a good display that tells me battery voltage, generator/solar panel voltage and the current being put into the battery: https://www.amazon.ca/Patec%C2%AE-Solar-Regulator-Charge-Controller/dp/B00MHNCHCW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458834030&sr=8-2&keywords=charge+controller
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Hi guys.. I just want to update to this topic...
2 weeks ago id just doing some demo with my Magic Pie V5 as pedal generator that been set to 24V... thats mean anybody have to pedal around 20-30km/h to get 24V regardless any load thats been throw for output.. such as 2 x 60Watt deskfan etc etc..
sad thing to my demo is someone really think that the faster you pedal the more watt you generate.. its true when DC to DC conversion...
but its not the same when you use motor controller & the output is in AC..
my 24V inverter & Magic Pie V5 controller died after I think that guy pedal so fast (around 50-60km/h) in few seconds!! the Magc Pie controller still have battery indicator light on but couldnt get it to work as motor... mosfet burn??
the inverter fuse didnt break at all!!
id open the stator & saw this.. some plate not inline :(
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The damage to the stator most probably occurred during removal, as it is very easy to catch the stator against the magnets if you don't keep the stator properly centred while removing it. ;)
Carefully push the laminations back down again as much as possible, and then add some thin superglue in the gaps before clamping them together again using a "G" Clamp or mole grips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_pliers) etc.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
thank you for the info.. yup maybe.. id just push it back without put any glue back again as at that time didnt have glue.. :(
i have 1 more question to you.. what you think about this diagram below..
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The circuit looks fine, but there is not enough information:
What are the yellow wires for (the ones connected to the red wires on the input and output)?
They are not fitted on the same JD1230 30A power supply that I looked at:
(https://s3.bukalapak.com/img/364207893/large/JD1230_DC_24V_to_12V_30A_Car_Power_Supply_Converter___Penuru.jpg) (https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/komponen-elektronik/2ufb8j-jual-jd1230-dc-24v-to-12v-30a-car-power-supply-converter-penurun-tegangan)
The exposed male connector blade should really be fitted to the Blender, LED wires and "Transformer" input, which are not "Live" when disconnected. This would prevent the possibility of shorting out the power supply or motor if the connectors were accidentally pulled apart during use. ;)
The "24-12V transformer" has to be a DC-DC converter type (like the one shown in the photo) rather than the more commonly found coil transformers which would only work with AC power.
Presumably, the LED is rated for 12V use, or else it would require a suitable current limiting resistor to run from the 12V output.
I'm also not sure that the diode (along with its additional 0.6V drop) is really necessary, unless you intend to have a 12V battery connected in parallel with the 12V output.
11.4V is a lot less than the typical 13.8~14.5V usually available on a car's auxiliary electrical supply while its engine is running, and would not be high enough to charge a 12V battery (if fitted).
Alan
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Alan.. thanks for the reply...
id already try to hook the 24DC to 12DC transformer just like my first photo directly to hub motor with controller been set to 24V & its failed to start been generator..
i use the 12V power inverter
i wonder if there is specific output from Magic Pie controller that prevent this transfromer to be working ? since its work with just directly to 24V DC Power inverter to AC..
regards
MrBulp
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Have you tried connecting a 24V battery to the controller and then measuring the battery voltage to see if it rises above the open circuit battery voltage if you pedal faster?
I suspect that the controller is only supposed to pass the generated power from the motor to the battery when regenerative braking is used, but the electromagnetic dynamic braking effect at slower motor rpm might prevent you from pedalling fast enough to produce any useable power.
Connecting a three phase rectifier (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281890860095) to the three phase wires would produce a more consistent and much better current output for powering a DC-DC converter, but you would need to devise a way of feeding three additional wires (one for each of the phase wires) to the outside of the controller where a suitable connector plug could be fitted to allow the regulator to be plugged in when generated output was required.
If there was room to fit the rectifier inside the hub, you could permanently connect it to the three phase wires and then join the two DC output wires to the Red and Black battery feed wires on the inside of the controller, but I suspect this might make the bike more difficult to pedal at higher speeds without motor assistance, and could also overcharge the bikes battery (or the controller) at very high speeds (long downhill runs where the maximum unloaded motor speed is exceeded)
I suspect your easiest option would be to use an external controller with a connector on the phase wires to allow them to be easily swapped between the controller and the rectifier. ;)
Alan
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Thank you Alan for your suggestion..
can I hook up Magic Pie to others Controller ?
since I want to have 1 button to disable controller & use the Magic Pie as generator without hassle to unplug internal controller..
regards
MrBulp