GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: gestalt on November 06, 2009, 08:52:59 PM
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a few guys in another forum requested that I open up this motor to get a look at whats really going on in there. so after getting the fan housing and fan off and all the exposed bolts are out. now though there are no bolts left to remove I cant seem to get the rear housing off of it. any suggestions yao?
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maybe you could email him yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com
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You probably need to take the snap ring off the shaft
side and then press the shaft through the motor with
a bearing press.
It probably doesn't want to go because the bearings are pressure
fitted in the body.
It is probably a one way process too, and not very warranty friendly.
(IE: Nooooooooo!)
Maybe you should just ask GM for some internal Pix from the factory.
(I would like to see too!)
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well, since GM wouldn't get back to me on internal pics or any other info on disassembly I had the guys at MIT help me get this done. Like you said e-lmer all it took was a good solid press on the shaft and the rear housing, stator and coils came slid out of from the top housing.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bPDPEaz8xoU/SwnlmJDJRgI/AAAAAAAAADU/tMzpQJf4kak/s400/photo%285%29.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bPDPEaz8xoU/SwnlndAbopI/AAAAAAAAAD0/Owf4jCmVKtI/s1600/photo%288%29.jpg)
consider my warranty voided. but now I think I know why the axle stopped spining, the gap beneath the stator and the rear housing is off kilter. So with some fine mesurements to get that spacing gap correct it should be rolling again just in time for my 100A 18 fett controller to get here.
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Well done, Gestalt 8) Nice to see inside that motor!
If you can get it back together without damaging the bearing - or your fingers -- you get a working motor ..and fingers!!
Please be careful..
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Thanks, I'm taking this one real slow. But considering that I'm not sure my prognosis is accurate this baby should get another group head scratching session. If any of the guys from golden motor are reading this, some kind of schematic would really help with fixing the motor and would be greatly apreciated. Don't even care what language it's in.
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Dude, becareful with that thing.
And harvey, I don't really know why you haven't got your pie yet, but... apart from the typical formal apologies from a firm, i'd like you to mail me your receipt at yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com Because i'm in the mood for reprimanding some employees. oh well, after my long 3 week fever-flu-H1N5 vacation, i'm finally back on track.
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Let us focus on this motor ;)
The physical PDF file is on the GM site..
http://www.goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/hubmotor-imgs/HPM5000B%20Drawing.pdf
..wiring schematic, please.
Edited to add link
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Because i'm in the mood for reprimanding some employees. oh well, after my long 3 week fever-flu-H1N5 vacation, i'm finally back on track.
You got the swine flue? Oh dear! Be sure not to give the employees that for a serving.
Maybe raise their pay and put the prices up mate. Id pay another $50 for a QC check on a PIE. We love the motors we need better QC.
We all need to love Golden and not just us customers.
I love my Golden but a few of us, only a few, are not happy.
Like me, humans don't grow enough when they reach adult stage, when they are unhappy they cry loudly but they have the internet which is like a 1,000,000 watt public address system.. So one unhappy human makes a lot of noise, making us happy humans unhappy.
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I'm not unhappy in the slightest. I'm a realist who knew this could turn out badly before turning that first bolt. But thankfully I've had a lot of help on and offline with this disasembly. I have no doubt in my mind it will eventually be put back together properly. But if we're to make any progress utilizing this motor in the future, exploratory procedures like this will need to be done. I'm maybe not the best guy for the job but I got it anyway.
This thread was started with the intent of increasing awareness of all details of the hmp5000b. Due to the described waterproof feature of this motor I see great things possible. I'm really curious as to how well it dissapates heat. I would like to know how the air would flow to and from the fan if I were to mount the motor inside a 8" diameter steel tube.
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Ahhh you temporarily made it not work. :( LOL sorry. It looks ok unlike my dark honey looking windings on my hub.
Massive windings and very clean and very powefull.
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..wiring schematic, please.
Wiring schematics will vary according to the controller being used, but the wiring is straightforward as the colours are the same as GM's "non-Pie" hubmotors:
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Blue)
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Yellow)
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Green)
Motor Hall Sensor 5V Supply Wire (Thin Red)
Motor Hall Sensor 0V Ground Wire (Thin Black)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Blue)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Yellow)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Green)
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=1343;image)
The HPC100B controller connection details can be found here (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1405.msg7336#msg7336).
Alan
P.S. Does anyone know whether it's feasible to link two of the magic controllers in parallel to give a 100Amp controller (4.8KW@48V) with regen, reverse and cruise functions etc. for use with this motor?
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Nothing is impossible, but it is a daunting issue.
The controller would need to be perfectly synchronized with
the other. Any voltage difference would be applied in reverse
to the second controller with no resistance, which could be
a bad thing.
I imagine you could figure a way to slave one controller to the
other internally so that the same hall effect feedback and throttle
data is fed to both controllers, but it is beyond me.
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I'm going with this controller here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13638 (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13638) and I think it will be a bit underpowered for the motor but work quite well in all other respects. But all of this remains to be seen, I essentially have the controller in hock to a family member because I just couldn't let it get away and I'm glad I did as it was the second to last one. But I imagine that with the help of the technical thread it could be replicated and aside from the work you would have to do quite affordable. I personaly don't have the skills to do it but others in this forum probably do.
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ES controller.
Electrical
Voltage range: 36V - 100V
Peak Current: >300A
Current Limit: 5A - 120A
Programmable Features
DC Current Limit
And lots more^
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It is a very good price for whats in it.
But not in everyones needs. Toooooo big for me :D.
HPM5000B:
The text performance chart writes up the max current this motor draws is 126.72 amps @46v @ 15.68nm @ 4811 watts 80% efficiency, how awesome is that? This is far from continuous in your real world application.
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That ES controller can dish out at best 1200 watts, lets be tough in our judgement and allow some tollerances, say 10kw.
I think the ES controller shunted at max 120amps continuous and programmable for DC current limitation. What method is used to limit the amps?
What voltage are you planning to run this motor at?
Providing your gearing this right the ES controller should handle it fine with much more volts/watts on the controller up your sleave. To be honset both controller and motor are in two different worlds but those worlds meet over a largish area of use.
Make sure the resistance over your coils isnt too low for the fets as I am not sure what GM would use for your motor's phat windings.
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Thanks for the pic, Bikemad ;D
..wiring schematic, please.
Wiring schematics will vary according to the controller being used, but the wiring is straightforward as the colours are the same as GM's "non-Pie" hubmotors:
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Blue)
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Yellow)
Motor Phase Wire (Thick Green)
Motor Hall Sensor 5V Supply Wire (Thin Red)
Motor Hall Sensor 0V Ground Wire (Thin Black)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Blue)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Yellow)
Motor Hall Sensor Wire (Thin Green)
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1497.0;attach=1343;image)
The HPC100B controller connection details can be found here (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1405.msg7336#msg7336).
Alan
P.S. Does anyone know whether it's feasible to link two of the magic controllers in parallel to give a 100Amp controller (4.8KW@48V) with regen, reverse and cruise functions etc. for use with this motor?
As for the P.S.. Battery chargers, brushed motors & controllers can (generally) work in parallel. However, I have never seen multiple BLDC controllers working in parallel.
One amplifier for each phase, yes! Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion eluded to this in 'Who Killed the Electric Car?'..
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What voltage are you planning to run this motor at?
I'm going to run it at the motors rated 48v. The controller has a switch to change it from 100v to 50v. As far as how the controller limits the current I am unsure.
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so hopefully some higher rez shots will help this thread along, in the first image you can see the stator magnets have a gap between them and the coil. In the second image you can see that on the other side the magnets are pinched up against the coils. I am guessing that is why the axle will no longer turn freely.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bPDPEaz8xoU/Sxq7lbUACQI/AAAAAAAAAE8/eFp2mfGAMpA/s1600/gap.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bPDPEaz8xoU/Sxq7kxxHrVI/AAAAAAAAAE0/1cU-gTipjTc/s1600/pinched.JPG)
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you can see the stator magnets have a gap between them and the coil. In the second image you can see that on the other side the magnets are pinched up against the coils. I am guessing that is why the axle will no longer turn freely.
Gestalt,
Has the motor only been stiff to turn since your attempt to dismantle it or was it already tight before that?
If it did become stiff during disassembly, can you remember what you did that may have caused it to become tight?
Did you by any chance try to encourage the spindle out of the housing using some "gentle persuasion" from a large mallet.
Have you tried it with the front housing refitted and tightened fully to centre the rotor correctly?
If you removed the four allen bolts on the rear which hold the stator in place, the stator could have been pulled towards the magnets and may just need to be reseated back into the correct position again.
I'm basically just clutching at straws here, as it's very difficult to see what might be causing the problem without being able to closely inspect the motor.
It might be worth taking it to a local garage or machine shop for a second opinion, as someone who regularly deals with mechanical problems will probably be able to locate the problem straight away.
Alan
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HUZZAH!!!I finally got the damn thing to spin again. All it took was to take apart and put the thing back together oh, I don't know...about five times until I found the correct order. So lets just consider this look inside a complete success, we now know what is under the hood and I know alot more about dissasembly technique. Thanks to all of you for all the guidance on this issue, I couldn't have done it without your help. Builds character. I now can breath a sigh of relief and continue with the work on the rest of the bike without fretting over my motor woes.
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hey can anyone help me I have the similar problem as mentioned above there is no gap between the stator magnets and the coil...........can anyone help me.....and also explain step wise about solving this problemmm its very urgent................................... :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Have you dismantled the motor or did it come like it?
I suspect you've probably had the motor apart, in which case it has to be something that you've done, so take a good close look to see if everything was correctly located during the reassembly process.
Is the gap non-existent all the way around, or just in one position?
Alan