GoldenMotor.com Forum

General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: skindoc4 on March 27, 2010, 11:27:41 PM

Title: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on March 27, 2010, 11:27:41 PM: 20 inch front wheel 36V 500W pro motor with 16 ah battery installed and working beautifully for 10 days in terrain with a number of short but quite steep hills. Needed pedal assist for steep pinches but otherwise perfect for my use. Two occasions the motor cut out when coming down hills associated with 5 beeps from horn. Normal function was restored by turning the power off and then on again. A few days ago coming home from work, down a hill and the motor cut out associated with 5 beeps on the horn. Since then nothing. 5 beeps every time I switch on the power. Rotating the motor produces a vibration with resistance ie. no freewheel.

I cannot find a reference to 5 beeps in any of the documentation nor to the complete failure which I have experienced.

I am not a heavyweight (73kg) so I would not have thought the ask too much for the motor.

Any similar experiences, any advice? ???

Alex
Title: Re: Beep codes for the Cruise controller
Post by: Bikemad on March 28, 2010, 12:03:42 AM: Hi and Welcome to the forum.

As far as I'm aware, this is what the beeps mean:

1 beep: Confirmation of anti-theft alarm activation or selection of pedelec mode
2 beeps: Motor hall sensor fault (or confirmation during motor phase calibration)
3 beeps: Throttle fault
4 beeps: Power breaking switch faulty or wires short circuited.
5 beeps: Not documented - email Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) with details of your fault and ask for further advice
EDIT
Quote from: Tom
The problem of 5 beeps is from the low voltage of battery

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on March 30, 2010, 10:10:47 PM: Yes, thank you - I read through all the documentation I could find on the site and came up with a similar list.

I am not particularly mechanically minded but it seems to me that the motor may have seized and I was wondering whether anyone else had experienced this.

I emailed Tom a few days ago but I have not yet had a reply.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Bikemad on March 30, 2010, 11:47:42 PM: If the wheel is very stiff to turn by hand (like when the regen is activated) try disconnecting the three thick wires going to the motor and see if the wheel then turns much easier. If disconnecting the wires makes a noticeable difference, then it's probably a fault with the speed controller.

Give it a try and let us know what you find.

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on March 31, 2010, 04:00:03 AM: Alan

Yes - bang on.

When I disconnected the wires, the wheel turns freely. As soon as the wires are connected again, the wheel is stiff. Again when I swtich on the power, I get 5 beeps.

So that is good news in that it means that the motor has not seized. The question is:

1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Thanks so much for your help so far

Best regards

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on March 31, 2010, 11:01:50 AM: Email tom. ;D

Maybe 5 beeps means controller death. It is possible to burn the thing if you try hard enough. Maybe you need a larger battery and the dual drive setup for what you want to do. Id love to have a bullet proof dual pie and 2X20ah packs for harder rides.

(Edit)

This poses a postage problem when internal controllers break down, nobody should need to ship a whole hub to repair. Maybe revise the internal controller approach in future editions.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on March 31, 2010, 11:19:33 AM: Maybe I suggest an alternative.

an idea I just thought of.

Intergate the controller with the battery packs or offer the magic controller to those who have their own packs.

But.

Make the Magic controller pop and slot into any GM pack.

Use the controller container as a guide to insert the controller in a pack and only one way. The pins will always be vertically inserted and their orientation will never be confused. Allow the fet sink air flow in the design.

Easy replacement and improvements. Better heat management potential. More fail proof.

Is this a viable? I'm sure there are negatives.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Bikemad on March 31, 2010, 11:20:41 AM: Quote from: skindoc4 on March 31, 2010, 04:00:03 AM
1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Alex, you will need to send another email to Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and tell him that your speed controller has failed, and hopefully he will arrange for a replacement to be sent to you.

Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it is difficult to know how to prevent it from happening again.
If it is just a faulty component that has unexpectedly failed during normal use, there is not much you can do about it.

Quote from: Yao Yuan on July 21, 2009, 03:25:29 PM
As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!

The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I wonder if the current limiting function applies to the regenerative braking as well, or does it only control the power output to the motor?
Does the "new function" also prevent regen braking burning out the controller while battery is on.
I wonder if this is the reason why your controller has failed? (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_think_230608.GIF)

Hopefully Tom can provide the answers.

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on April 01, 2010, 08:19:30 AM: Quote from: Bikemad on March 31, 2010, 11:20:41 AM
Quote from: skindoc4 on March 31, 2010, 04:00:03 AM
1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Alex, you will need to send another email to Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and tell him that your speed controller has failed, and hopefully he will arrange for a replacement to be sent to you.

Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it is difficult to know how to prevent it from happening again.
If it is just a faulty component that has unexpectedly failed during normal use, there is not much you can do about it.

Quote from: Yao Yuan on July 21, 2009, 03:25:29 PM
As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!

The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I wonder if the current limiting function applies to the regenerative braking as well, or does it only control the power output to the motor?
[/img]

Hopefully Tom can provide the answers.

Alan

I agree but I haven't got one of these so I couldnt say.

But on that theory maybe the set amount of regen in the controller doesnt compensate for extreme steep grade hills. Or his controller was slightly out of spec.

I remember the old controllers and liked the function to be able to controll the amount of regen, however regen on the brake switches could have limitation but torque applied (voltage) not in current follow mode.

As for heat.

I have these great thermistors that respond to your breath. Small and sensitive. Good fun.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on April 02, 2010, 12:35:10 AM: Hi Alan

I have emailed Tom again so hopefully he will get back to me. Thank you for your helpful information. The cut-out of power only occurred when braking on steep hills so I think you have nailed the problem. What surprises me is that switching the power on and off has not fixed the problem as it did on the first few occasions.

I was wondering whether I might be able to put a current-limiting protection circuit (a circuit beaker of some kind which I could switch back on again, better still switched on again automatically) between the motor regenerative circuit and the controller to completely prevent this problem. I have very limited knowledge of electronics and circuits but I can solder and I can follow explicit instructions. I can also get expert assistance if I really need it.

Thanks Leslie also. I have the 36V 16Ahr battery which I would have thought was enough for my 30km commute with the 500W motor. I have the Pro motor so the controller is separate so is not so expensive to send.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on April 05, 2010, 04:28:55 AM: At 36v speed you must of been flying down hill to get up that sort of current. Its all relative to pack voltage. It wouldnt matter less at higher voltages as the pack is not going to draw as much current.

Put any current at voltage on a 36v pack and it will draw more current than if you were to do exactly the same on a 48v pack. There are larger voltage differences. The speed of the bike when hitting on regen makes the difference. Going down a big hill with a 36v pack may provide enough speed and regen voltage/current to charge a 48v pack nice, but the load a 36v pack creates compared to a 48v pack is 12v multiplied by the current.

If you say you were travelling down hill at 50kph and regen 10 amps, a 36v pack represents 120 more watts of charging power than it would on a 48v pack.

So higher voltage packs may not see this problem as often. Only if the regen current has not been limited.

Current follow mode presents problems though. Regen stopping power would no doubt be applicable to the amount of current available and if there was a lot available lots of watts would need to be burnt off. This thread has lead me to think the regen is set to deliver a set amount of stopping torque and certain things were not to be expected upon its design, like going 50kph down hills with a 36v pack, correct me if I am wrong.

Regen presents a large challenge for the ebike engineer. People have though about all sorts of ways to rid off excess regen. One way is to use a small stove element as a resistor but this is a little large and ugly.

GM used to have the amount of regen controllable by just decelerating the throttle. The negative side there was no free wheeling when regen was pined to be on always.

Maybe include the throttle adjustment style regen to initiate with the break lever. This way there will be less of a spike but not in all situations. I feel its a step closer to making it bullet proof.
Title: Re: Controller failure
Post by: Bikemad on April 06, 2010, 12:19:11 AM: I'm now in two minds as to whether this failure has been caused by excessive current or excessive voltage.

If the BMS prevents the battery from accepting too much charge by breaking the circuit, the voltage in the controller could then rise very high, especially with a 20" wheel!

So it could possibly be that excessive voltage has actually damaged the controller.

Take a look at my post here (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2012.msg9973#msg9973)

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on April 07, 2010, 12:37:26 AM: Hi Alan

I have not heard back from Tom and it is about 2 weeks now and 3 emails to Golden Motors since I notified the problem. I am getting a little concerned at the lack of a reply. Has this been a problem before?

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Hardcore on April 07, 2010, 06:18:50 AM: Quote from: skindoc4 on April 07, 2010, 12:37:26 AM
Has this been a problem before?

It wasn't never this bad. Yao seems to be away or so and Tom... I don't know, with GM it could be anything.
Title: Re: Controller failure
Post by: Leslie on April 08, 2010, 09:13:50 PM: Quote from: Bikemad on April 06, 2010, 12:19:11 AM

I'm now in two minds as to whether this failure has been caused by excessive current or excessive voltage.

If the BMS prevents the battery from accepting too much charge by breaking the circuit, the voltage in the controller could then rise very high, especially with a 20" wheel!

So it could possibly be that excessive voltage has actually damaged the controller.

Take a look at my post here (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2012.msg9973#msg9973)

Alan

First event excess current from the small wheel and low pack voltage.

Next is a fuse or breaker opens circuit.

Then the voltage spike over the input caps between source and drain

Avoid the first event and protect the circuit from the third event third.

All events are responsible for failure.

100 volt fets would help.

The diode bypass with a resistor would also avoid the third event but bypass the fuse/ breaker after being set off.

Any ideas!
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on April 26, 2010, 09:24:08 AM: Still no response from Golden Motors. More than 4 weeks now.

This is unacceptable.

I have emailed Phillip Yao again. Replies came within 48 hours when there was a sale in the offing.

As of now I am >$AUD1000 down with a failed system (after 10 days of use) and a lack of reply to my emails. In my country (Australia) this would be grounds for reporting to Consumer Affairs (Government Department).

Have others experienced similar?

Alex >:( >:(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on April 26, 2010, 03:40:33 PM: Hold in here mate.

Id say you only need a controller. Youre not $1000AUD out of pocket, not really. It feels like it though.

Like one hall sensor I can get for under $2 is the straw that breaks the camels back, It wast too long ago, we had no sensorless, so lifes problems were solved with an afternoons work and a $2 part.

I hope when youre back up and running you feel better about this.

My first attempt at this was horrible.

I blew one controller trying to find a spot to put it on my bike, and I shorted out some controller wire on my pack. Then, I had no stand, and very heavy SLA batteries and putting the bike down and picking it up by the throttle had me break it clean off. Then with all my batteries, my bike fell over on a pebble drive way, munged and shorted out the wires, and took out my second controller. It was all gone in a month.

I had no warranty, no transport and $800 worth of bits I broke.

My problems were caused to not having a good stand and some covers over my terminals, So much damage for so little apathy.

Thank god my hall sensors were still ok. ::)

I was about to call it a day.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on April 28, 2010, 01:16:47 AM: Hi Leslie (that is your name?)

Thanks for the encouraging words because I am a bit dispirited over this. My wife cautioned me about purchasing this way but I was impressed with the Golden Motors site and the presentation of the products - way better than most other Chinese sites I have visited - and also by what I had read on this forum. I still believe they have a great product but the failure I have had should have been prevented before the controller left the factory.

I am sure you are right about me only needing a new controller but I think I should at least have received a reply from Golden Motors and that they should come to the party and send a replacement controller which includes a way of protecting against the high voltage/current whichever which it would seem has cooked the controller I have.

I was assisted with the installation by a friend who is an electrical engineer (= knows what he is doing unlike me) who happened to be visiting from interstate at the time. So I am confident that the installation was expertly performed.

Unfortunately my investment in time and money remains worthless whilst the bike remains idle and I personally have no means at the moment of changing this without the involvement of Golden Motors. That is the problem as I see it and the issue with no reply from Golden Motors. I appreciate your advice but without some considerable dedicated study (eg what is a "fets") I am unable to rectify my problem.

I have not given up yet but neither am I excited right now.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: TRK on April 28, 2010, 04:40:54 PM: When sending an email to Tom, try to keep it as short and to the point as possible. In my experience that will get the fastest response. For example:
Quote
Hello Tom,

Controller failed, 5 beeps.
Please advice.

Regards,
Alex Skindoc4

Then he will likely ask you to check or test a few things to verify the problem, so he can decide what needs to be done and send you the needed replacement parts.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on April 29, 2010, 02:13:46 AM: Thanks

I shall follow your suggestion

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on May 14, 2010, 02:26:15 AM: An update - advised by Philip Yao that he is sending a replacement controller in which the problem with regenerative braking causing damage has been fixed. Hoepfully this will solve my problems with the controller failure.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on May 18, 2010, 09:30:28 AM: Quote from: skindoc4 on April 28, 2010, 01:16:47 AM
Hi Leslie (that is your name?)

Thanks for the encouraging words because I am a bit dispirited over this. My wife cautioned me about purchasing this way but I was impressed with the Golden Motors site and the presentation of the products - way better than most other Chinese sites I have visited - and also by what I had read on this forum. I still believe they have a great product but the failure I have had should have been prevented before the controller left the factory.

Buying online is fine in my years experience. Me and my wife were scared to buy online, just a few rules to abide by and things always turn out good.

Best advice is to be patient. Diplomacy never lets you down even when facing con artists and the authorities that will deal with them, and don't be afraid to speak up.

The thing that really stands out about GM is that they have always made good in the end to the people who don't give up and sell out.

Yes these regen problems are common.

Regen is a simple but hard to balance thing. It is only new to BLCD in implementation and many people are still coming up with new and better ideas.

Ive just built a prototype solar panel range extender and I having ideas of using it and the motor to get regen. Where the development goes from here is up to us and our feedback,
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on June 17, 2010, 12:29:10 PM: Well it's 2 months now going on 3 and just 1 email on 4 May promising a replacement controller within one week.

It's more than 6 weeks since the solitary email promising to fix the problem and no replacement controller.

Multiple further emails and no reply. I do not think this is satisfactory. As of now I have AUD$1000 of electric motor and battery which does not work and I have no means for making it work.

I think this is extremely poor and I would have to advise against doing business with Golden Motors.

Alex >:(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: thomasamoth on July 04, 2010, 09:51:35 PM: Hello, ive the same problem ... I ran up a hill and the motor cut down and when I restarted it I could hear 5 bip, and no more power from the motor .... :(

Please help, my magicpie ran only 6km ..............

:(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on July 04, 2010, 11:21:33 PM: The wheel is hard to turn? Then you have mosfet failure by the sounds of it.

They are very easy to replace if you know what you are doing with a solder gun.

Similarly you could opt for a controller replacement board.

Then Email Tom.

zhourenli@goldenmotor.com

It is important you do not switch off your controller while it is operation, or to make sure your battery connection is solid.

I am not sure what happens when the BMS current ratings are exceeded, which BTW is what the first 5 beeps could indicate, low battery power?

You have help here so don't panic.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: thomasamoth on July 05, 2010, 10:19:26 AM: Hello, tom answered me, and told me my controller is dead.

:'(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on July 05, 2010, 01:29:12 PM: g'day thomasamoth

You have done better than me. I have had a single reply in 4 months promising a replacement controller but nothing has ever arrived. What do you >:( >:( have to do to have Golden Motors honour its undertakings?

alex :(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: thomasamoth on July 05, 2010, 09:21:45 PM: I am disapointed alex ....
I was so exited to try my so waited e-bike ! And .... it broke with 20mn use :(
And goldenmotor can't do anything for us ... waw, what a surprise !
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on July 14, 2010, 11:01:02 AM: I have spent $AUD1000 or thereabouts on a product which has failed.

Any reputable company would make good but apparently not Golden Motors. It's a $65 part and they don't value their reputation more than this.

I think the wider community needs to be advised that this company cannot be trusted.

I notice that the link to this forum has been removed from the home page of Golden Motors site. Are they telling us something?

Alex >:(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: GM Canada on July 15, 2010, 03:03:33 AM: Have you tried calling GM directly? Their phone number is on the front page on their website at www.goldenmotor.com . Maybe that will help?

Gary
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on July 26, 2010, 04:17:55 PM: Hi Gary

There is a new dealer in Australia - previously there were none - they are making some enquiries on my behalf so perhaps they will be able to source a new controller for me. I shall wait with baited breath.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on July 26, 2010, 06:08:46 PM: Quote from: skindoc4 on July 26, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
Hi Gary

There is a new dealer in Australia - previously there were none - they are making some enquiries on my behalf so perhaps they will be able to source a new controller for me. I shall wait with baited breath.

Alex

Good to see the new AU dealer is interacting for your behalf. There was an AU dealer before the new AU dealer and he was great too.

I hope you get your problem fixed soon. I don't like these problems but you need some way of communicating your situation.

I honestly do not think GM ignore people on purpose its more to do with they desire to manufacture and sell through the dealerships. I think in Australian sales do not make GM's bread and butter and this is why the AU dealership in my mind is important to its customer base.

Company Name:     Golden Motor Technology Co., Ltd. Authenticated and Verified
Business Type:    Manufacturer

Note the bold type.

The have had over a million site hits on its sales site and Im not sure how long the hit counter has been up there. Maybe half of them result in emails,

Quote
Total Annual Sales Volume:    US$1 Million - US$2.5 Million

Thats can add up to over 2500 kits per year or if you consider that not every sale is a kit, this diversifies to lot more individual product.. Business must be expanding rapidly and GM is under pressure to meet the demand in work load. We only see a few problems pop up here in the forums compared to the product sold.

Honestly our emails are not at the top spot on GM's list and they should be .

However IMO, The sales from the factory are only to propagate the dealerships and I think GM as a manufacturer would enjoy the day they can be relieved from the retail side of their business preferring to have world wide dealerships to take away some of the individual responsibilities involved with retail.

None of this helps your problem though.

This thread has put the new AU dealer on the radar and how we behave here can effect the success of GM products sales through the new AU dealer. Also as important. how GM interact with the new AU dealer and how the new dealer interacts with GM and the customer.

You will be OK and I do feel things will be made right for you. Just don't sign on the dotted line that you have given up. Youre not ignored IMO, youre just a small voice calling for a replacement that got missed in the crowd. It shouldn't hurt to get louder.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on July 26, 2010, 06:47:08 PM: http://www.goldenmotor.com/contact/GM%20Web%20Statistics%202010%20Apr.pdf (http://www.goldenmotor.com/contact/GM%20Web%20Statistics%202010%20Apr.pdf)

Yes GM have more internet activity in the last 6mths than they have over the whole 2009 year.

Hits 2009= 2423375.

Hits 2010= 4401084

Almost doubled in 6mths this year.

:o

GM want $20,000 sales a year to remain on as a dealer.

Just maybe the sales is inundating the support. Id like to say that this shouldn't make a difference but I think it is. What is and what should sometimes do not relate.

GM Dealership FAQ's

Quote
Q:What are the requirements to become a dealer?
A:You must have a warehouse/shophouse/webshop and you should be familiar with Golden Motor products. A plus point for dealers who have knowledge of Electric Motors and are able to do repairs and maintenance.

Q:How much must I order?
A:You have to order a minumum of USD$5000 worth of GoldenMotor products on the first order and complete sum amount of USD$20,000 annually to continue being our dealer.

Q:I am a GoldenMotor dealer, why am I not listed on the list of dealers?
A:You order must be confirmed by GoldenMotor before you are put on the list.

Q:I've seen some dealers have special rights on the forum and special GoldenMotor logos, where can I get the same?
A:Send an e-mail with a copy of your dealership contract to yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com to receive the same privileges.

Q:Will I be fined if I do not meet the USD$20,000 quota?
A:Never, GoldenMotor takes good care of it's dealers and each and every staff in GoldenMotor is friendly and helpful at any point of time.

Q:I have no shophouse, but I have a warehouse, how can I still be in business with GoldenMotor?
A:Dropship dealers. Affiliate partners. You can order by drop shipping from GoldenMotor, and GoldenMotor will deliver straight to the address that you inform us about. Prices may vary from direct dealers.

Simons Superbikes Megastore must have made an import order to get on the list so I don't think your problem is too far from being sorted.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on July 28, 2010, 09:14:39 AM: Hi Leslie

Thank you for your thoughts - interesting.

I hope you are right although I think a good business plans for growth and maintains all parts of the business including customer service throughout the process. They should hire a person to manage these issues. It makes you worry about what will happen if some unforeseen event stretches their resources.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: GM Canada on July 31, 2010, 02:20:16 AM: Quote from: skindoc4 on July 26, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
Hi Gary

There is a new dealer in Australia - previously there were none - they are making some enquiries on my behalf so perhaps they will be able to source a new controller for me. I shall wait with baited breath.

Alex

Glad to hear that Alex, Hopefully your new dealer can get things going for you. Please do keep in mind this dealer obviously did not make any money on your purchase as you did go direct with China. So anything at all he can offer you for assistance should be greatly appreciated.

Gary
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Leslie on July 31, 2010, 02:35:19 AM: Quote from: GM Canada on July 31, 2010, 02:20:16 AM
Quote from: skindoc4 on July 26, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
Hi Gary

There is a new dealer in Australia - previously there were none - they are making some enquiries on my behalf so perhaps they will be able to source a new controller for me. I shall wait with baited breath.

Alex

Glad to hear that Alex, Hopefully your new dealer can get things going for you. Please do keep in mind this dealer obviously did not make any money on your purchase as you did go direct with China. So anything at all he can offer you for assistance should be greatly appreciated.

Gary

Yes Gary but how good would it look if Simon's came through with some help, even if he was arranged a dropship from china under a warranty claim.

I do believe dealers like yourself will extend help and it wasnt like the OP bypassed the dealership phase.

In the mean time I still wait for a tax return that has gone into manual intervention before I can order ::)

The bike I want is sold out, and all the cheap sales have finished, damn this is frustrating. I still am keen to get some new GM product.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: jan0s on August 03, 2010, 04:34:39 PM: Hi
Normally I hear 2 beeps after I start controller because I have hall sensor failure. But today I can hear 5 beeps form horn. Wheel run easilly. I ran only 20 km

Best Ragard

Of course I sent mail to zhourenli@goldenmotor.com. Nobody answered me. This is very low level of quality product. Warranty, what warranty ? >:(. If you want have god product buy it from reputable dealer. This is my last busisness with goldenmotor ! >:(
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 15, 2010, 08:36:49 AM: Hi all,

I currently have the same problem. It happened when I was riding at high speed and the battery was disconnected by a small shock due the road (and due to MY bad battery connection).
The wheel was kind of blocked as described in this topic.

When I was disconnecting the yellow phase of the engine the wheel was unblocked.
After having replaced the controller by a new one ordered at GM the problem remains !! But now with the so called 5 bips at startup (nothing at all before with the old one).

Disconnecting the yellow phase still works (it unblocks the wheel). But when everything is connected it does not work.

In summary , replacing the controller suggested by GM supports does not solve the problem for me.

Now I have no clue >:(

Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Bikemad on August 15, 2010, 12:18:19 PM: Quote from: ltalbot on August 15, 2010, 08:36:49 AM
Disconnecting the yellow phase still works (it unblocks the wheel). But when everything is connected it does not work.

Hi Loic, and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum.

It sounds like you're not having a lot of luck with your conversion. I'm wondering if it could be a faulty hall sensor or the hall sensor wiring causing this fault.
I suggest that you reconnect the phase wires, and disconnect the hall sensor wiring instead (unplug the 5 pin connector) and see if it then works in sensorless mode. You may have to spin the wheel a bit to get the motor to start in sensorless mode.

It's possible that the fault may have damaged the new controller, but give it a try anyway (and then repeat the test with the old controller) and let us know what happens.

Check if the wheel is still "blocked", even if the motor does not run, as this information could be useful.

(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/fingerscrossed.GIF)

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 15, 2010, 05:04:37 PM: Hi Alan,
thanks a lot for answering.

As you suggested I have tried without the 5 pin connector with the old controller and with the new one.
I also did to make it work while walking with it (I was unable to spin the wheel and activate the throttle at the same time).

In summary, with the old controller : nothing happens (not a single beep, nothing)
with the new controller : 5 beeps at startup, then nothing. (except that I can hear a small noise coming from the wheel that tells me that it will be a bit blocked).

but there's more: I have tried to swap the engine wires: still 5 beeps + nothing

I have tried removing every wire of the controller except the power and the horn : it still beeps 5 times

Well... As you said I may have burned this one again but the most annoying is if I buy a new one for the 2nd time I still don't know what to do to prevent to burn it again ???

Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: karen on August 15, 2010, 05:15:11 PM: I thought the 5 beeps was the batteries?
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 15, 2010, 05:55:44 PM: Hi Karen,

I don't think 5 beeps mean the batteries are low because I have tried them on another ebike and they work perfectly. But yes I have recharged them entirely to be sure that was not the problem

Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 16, 2010, 11:03:00 AM: Hi Karen,
mmm you may be right.
I have found this thread (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2224.0 (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2224.0)) in which Alan says 5 beeps mean low voltage. I 'll measure that as soon as I am back.
Which voltage do you guys usually have for 48v batteries ?

thanks
Loïc
Title: Re: Checking the 5V supply and hall sensor operation
Post by: Bikemad on August 16, 2010, 01:52:34 PM: Quote from: ltalbot on August 16, 2010, 11:03:00 AM
I have found this thread (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2224.0 (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2224.0)) in which Alan says 5 beeps mean low voltage. I 'll measure that as soon as I am back.

Loic, thanks for the reply.

It was actually Tom from GM who said 5 beeps meant low voltage, but I'm not convinced. The default setting for these controllers should allow 24, 36 and 48V batteries to be used, so unless your battery voltage was below the LVC for a 24V battery it should still work if the controller was still OK. (which is extremely doubtful)

As both of your controllers appear to have failed, this seems too much of a coincidence, and I think there's a good chance that the cause of the problem lies somewhere in the wiring or even the hub itself. Assuming the battery power leads have not been connected reverse polarity at any point!

Send an email to Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and briefly explain that your replacement controller gives 5 Beeps and the wheel does not turn easily without disconnecting the thick motor wires, and see what he says.

I would also check to see if you have ~5V between the H+/5v and the H-/0V connection on the controller (try each of the controllers again) with just the battery power leads connected.
If neither of the controllers are producing a 5V output, don't waste any more time trying to do the following checks, as they cannot be done without the 5V supply!

If you are getting a reading of ~5V, try plugging in the other connectors one at a time and watch the meter to see if the ~5V remains constant.
If there is a short in the wiring (throttle, pedelec unit or hall sensors etc.), I would expect the 5V Voltage supply to drop completely as soon as the connector from the faulty wiring is plugged in.

If you still have 5V with the hall sensors plugged in, it should be possible to check the operation of each of the three hall sensors:
Push the black meter probe into the rear of the connector on the H-/0V connection and then put the red probe into the Yellow (Ha) hall sensor wire and then rotate the motor very slowly by hand, if you can turn the wheel slow enough, you should be able to see the meter reading changing between ~0V and ~5V.
Repeat this test using the Green (Hb) and Blue (Hc) hall sensor wires to check those as well.

If one of the sensors remains at 0V (assuming the H+/5V Red lead is ~5V) or doesn't drop below ~5V, then the sensor (or its wiring) will be faulty.

Quote from: ltalbot on August 16, 2010, 11:03:00 AM
Which voltage do you guys usually have for 48v batteries ?

You should get a reading of around 54.5V from a fully charged 48V GM battery.

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 16, 2010, 09:00:00 PM: Hi Alan,

thanks for these information :)

Here are the results:

* controller 1 (the old one): 0V between H+ and H-. I have stopped here the measurements...

* controller 2 (the new one): 4.61V between H+ and H-. I can connect every wire, the voltage remains to 4.61V. Only
when I connect the red and black wires to H+ and H- the voltage drops to 4.1V.

When turning the wheel (the front wheel for me) the voltage on Ha, Hb and Hc vary from 0v to about 5v.
(I could even stop turning the wheel in some position and measure easily).

The battery voltage is above 56V for me.

Whenever I am switching on the power I can hear a small noise coming from the wheel that tells me it won't be easy to
turn. So I have tried to disconnect the yellow wire and reconnect it only once the power is on. No noise in that case but
still hard to turn.

I have no more ideas for now. I guess the next step deals with the wheel itself. Does it make sense to connect the phases
to an ohmmeter ?

Loic

ps: I have sent an email to Tom with a short description of the problem
Title: Re: Faulty controller
Post by: Bikemad on August 17, 2010, 01:40:53 AM: * controller 2 (the new one): 4.61V between H+ and H-. I can connect every wire, the voltage remains to 4.61V. Only
when I connect the red and black wires to H+ and H- the voltage drops to 4.1V.
4.1V is probably about right, I would expect it to be slightly lower because of the current being drawn by the three hall sensors. ;)

When turning the wheel (the front wheel for me) the voltage on Ha, Hb and Hc vary from 0v to about 5v.
That's a pretty good indication that the three hall sensors are all working correctly. :)

The battery voltage is above 56V for me.
56V is slightly too high, that works out at just over 4.3V per cell.
The end of charge voltage should be 4.20V ±0.05V per cell (54.6V ±0.65V), but it may just be that your meter is just reading a bit high.

I guess the next step deals with the wheel itself. Does it make sense to connect the phases to an ohmmeter ?
It certainly won't do any harm to check the resistances between the three phase wires, you could also check the resistance between the wires and the axle itself to see if there is any sign of a short circuit to ground. I'll be very surprised if there is a problem with the windings, as these motors do not usually suffer from winding problems (unless they have been severely overheated).

I'm expecting the three resistance readings to all be pretty similar and that no reading whatsoever will be obtained between the windings and the axle, but it would still be nice to actually have this confirmed.

I'm still puzzled as to how the second controller has become damaged, when the rest of your wiring appears to check out OK.
It would appear that at least two out of the six FETs inside the controller have for some reason failed in a short circuit condition, but I have no idea as to how (or why) this could have happened.

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 17, 2010, 05:10:27 AM: Hi Alan,

ok, I'll check the resistance between the 3 wires and with the axle.
I forgot to mention that my battery is not a GM battery. So I guess the 56V measure is correct. But now I am wondering if a voltage above a certain value could damage the circuit or disable it... and therefore explain the 5 beeps at startup.
sorry I shoud have mentionned before but since I have another bike with a Magic Pie that works properly with this battery I thought it was ok.
Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: GoldenMotor on August 17, 2010, 08:33:01 AM: Hi all,

Sorry, have been busy for quite a bit now. It seems that the 5 beeps is a common problem. Could someone please summarize the entire problem, especially the "gm battery or non-gm battery" part for me so that I can come up with a test plan (email to yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com). Also include the voltage and AH of the batteries you used which caused that failure. Magic Pie is allegedly fail-proof. Warranty claims of Magic Pie is only valid if you use GM battery. It is advised on the website that you use GM batteries with a Magic Pie.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 17, 2010, 09:39:07 AM: Hi,

thanks for the information.

Let me clarify the situation. The Magic Pie still works properly. I am not looking for warranty.

I have a problem with the 48V 1000W kit, the one with the separate controller. It has worked properly during more than 500 kilometers. Then, a battery wire was accidentally disconnected while running down a hill.

I thought I had burned the controller because of the regenerative power.
Therefore I have changed the controller and now I have 5 beeps.

In my opinion the failure is not due to the battery because it was unfortunately disconnected when it happened.
I can buy a GM battery but I must be sure it will solve the problem! 8)

best regards
Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 17, 2010, 08:43:23 PM: well

about 0.5 ohms between each motor wire, infinite between every wire and the axle.

I had a response from Tom asking more details, I have replied and now I am waiting. But now I think something is wrong with the controller.

5 beeps must mean something.

Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: ltalbot on August 22, 2010, 01:54:01 PM: Hi all,

I have found the problem: I have tried with somebody else's controller and it works perfectly.

The new one that GM has sent is just a bad quality item.

It should be added in the community knowledge that 5 beeps means out of order controller even if it's new

I hope it will help someone else 8)
Loic
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Bikemad on August 26, 2010, 01:37:30 AM: Loic, it's good that you've been able to prove exactly where the problem lies, but it's a shame that the replacement controller is faulty.

I hope you manage to get your bike back in action soon.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/emoticon_on_bike.GIF)
Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: MonkeyMagic on August 26, 2010, 09:08:36 AM: Ohhh seriously makes me scratch my head with my replacement controller lol

Never seen 5v in it and no beeps :( still sitting next to me laughing at me...
What on earth could cause this wheel not to work is beyond me. I'll be buying a cheap ebay controller to 'triple' check this now me thinks ???

Alan - you would have to own the best collection of emoticons!! lol they are awesome
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: semper_linux on September 07, 2010, 10:11:51 AM: I also have a 2 month old ProKit 901 with a busted controller - 5 beeps.

An email to 'Tom' produced the reply - "controller broken" - that was it - nothing else.

I have sent emails requesting a replacement but no reply.

Does anyone know how I can get Golden Motor to send me a replacement ?
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: skindoc4 on September 09, 2010, 12:54:42 PM: :-\
I am pleased to advise the forum that Phillip Yao finally came through, only about 5 months after first promising a replacement controller. It arrived two weeks ago and am I delighted to report that it appears to be functioning flawlessly. All this angst could have been avoided if only they had responded in a timely fashion. I may well have even bought a second kit for another bike if the controller had been replaced promptly but I won't be rushing to send Golden Motors any more money for a while.

I hope Golden Motors is attending to others who have had faulty controllers.

Alex
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: semper_linux on September 09, 2010, 04:20:53 PM: well, I got a reply from Tom 2 days ago. He would have received my reply before getting up for work, so we'll see what this brings.
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: GM Canada on September 14, 2010, 11:10:22 AM: Quote from: skindoc4 on September 09, 2010, 12:54:42 PM
:-\
I am pleased to advise the forum that Phillip Yao finally came through, only about 5 months after first promising a replacement controller. It arrived two weeks ago and am I delighted to report that it appears to be functioning flawlessly. All this angst could have been avoided if only they had responded in a timely fashion. I may well have even bought a second kit for another bike if the controller had been replaced promptly but I won't be rushing to send Golden Motors any more money for a while.

I hope Golden Motors is attending to others who have had faulty controllers.

Alex

I do find it unfortunate that some warranty issues take along time for GM to come through. I as dealer find that them responding to warranty issues is a slow and painfulll process. But once again GM has come through and will be honouring several issues I had on the table. I just wish it didnt take weeks to do so.

Gary
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: edu on October 03, 2010, 10:33:41 PM: Hi everybody, and thanks for your nice info!

Seems to me Gm has a quality problem with the controler: Same problem after 1 month of normal use: 5 beeps, wheel hard to move.

The day it stopped the controller was quite warm -not hot. Temperature problem? I was driving flat and very slow.
Does anyone know
1. Other controller in the market fitting their motor? I read somewhere Gm one is a copy from Crystalite
2. A guide to replace the damaged part (if its a known one, mosfet or so)

I'm runnig minimotor kit, 250watt, 36v, 10Ah. Good results till now! >:(

Thanks everybody
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: luisgouveia on October 06, 2010, 01:12:40 PM: Hello guys,

Just like it happened to you, I had the same problem: 5 beeps, wheel hard to move.

I've used an ancient controller and the motor is fine. The problem really comes from the controller.

GM STAFF: Can you guive us a guide to replace the damaged part? I'm sure you already know the problem. I see that it's very usual.

My setup:

250W Mini motor
Magic controller (broken)
2*5S LiPoly batteries (37V)

Thanks for an answer,
Luís
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: Husvarden on October 07, 2010, 02:07:31 PM: Hi

The same thing happend to me. There is a thred here: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2512.0

5 beeps, wheel hard to move,

Only used it for 50 km and 14 days. Used it normally!
Tom have told me that the the internal controler was broken.

1000w Magic Pie
Internal controler (broken)
48v battery from GM China
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: kmleon77 on January 17, 2011, 08:27:38 PM: HELLO
exactly same problem
5 bips and wheel hard to turn

I have two bikes with a MP each
both are with 48V10Ah battery
but one has an internal controller and the other a external controller
I own the first for more than one year and had no trouble with it : works perfectly
I own the one with external controller for a few months and : 5 bips : do not work any longer !!! grrrrr
I am using the same battery on each
so : the controller is out of order : I need to replace it and asked golden motor to do the necessary hoping it won't be long
but do you know if another controller suits the MP because I am working with my bike and need something which works well
I am about to order a third MP to GM to make a bike for my wife but now I want to be sure the problem has been resolved
???
thans for answers
fred
Title: Re: Alternative controller
Post by: Bikemad on January 18, 2011, 01:11:50 PM: Quote from: kmleon77 on January 17, 2011, 08:27:38 PM
Do you know if another controller suits the MP because I am working with my bike and need something which works well

Fred,

The 40A Infineon Controller (C3640-NC) has been successfully used with Magic Pies by several forum members, but you would probably need to change some of the connectors in order to make it fit.

This 40A controller will allow your Magic Pie to produce more torque (pulling power) than the GM controllers, because it will supply a much higher current than the current GM controllers, but the maximum speed will still be about the same.

Please note: The Pedelec function cannot be used with this controller.

This controller can be found at ebike.ca.

(http://ebike.ca/store/photos/C3640-NC.jpg) (http://ebike.ca/store/store_controllers.php)

Alan
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: kmleon77 on January 19, 2011, 12:18:36 PM: HELLO
THANKS for all the informations
fred
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: kmleon77 on January 19, 2011, 08:06:05 PM: HELLO
another question
I'm using the cruise control
can I plug it into the infineon controller ?
thanks
fred
Title: Re: 5 Beeps? No Go
Post by: gamewinner on May 04, 2011, 10:57:57 AM: Hi,

Same problem : http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2454.30

GM has really poor quality controlors :(