GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Praveen on August 25, 2012, 05:13:30 AM
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Hi recently I have bought 72V 10kW BLDC motor and HPC500 series controller.Everything is working fine 8) from Golden motors.But the motor speed is nearly 4500rpm only while it supposed to run to max of 6000rpm . due to this my vehicle top speed is affected.Is there any possibility to increase the motor speed to reach till 6000rpm ?.... I have got usb programming kit also for the controller.i have changed the values in controller for motor to 7000rpm both fwd and rev.yet it doesnt run beyond 4500rpm. :-\
Any ideas,suggestions pls !!!.?? :-\
Regards
8)Praveen 8)
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The 6000 rpm motor speed in the specs is the "no load" speed. A good rule of thumb to determine "loaded" speed is to use a factor of 70%.
6000 x 0.7 = 4200.
Depending on the load, position of Venus relative to Mars, and all other factors, i'd say you're doing pretty well at 4500 rpm loaded.
The only way you'll increase your speed is to up the battery voltage, change the gearing (with loss of torque), or go on a severe diet.
In my case, the diet would help a lot.
Jeff
:)
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Hi jeff
Thanks for the reply.
To clarify some specs.
1.)The speed which I measured using tachometer is at Motor "no load speed" only.It measured only 4500rpm to the max.
2.)The suggestion u did thatis to change gears is good.I tried it...it reaches max speed.but I cant start quickly(acceleration) in heavy traffics.So I cant compromise torque for speed.
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My read of the HPC series user guide (http://www.goldenmotor.com/HPC%20Series%20Controller%20User%20Guide.pdf (http://www.goldenmotor.com/HPC%20Series%20Controller%20User%20Guide.pdf)) shows pin 7 as accelerator input. I think it should read "speed setting", but that's semantics.
Anyway, if you could get a meter reading off this pin 7 (reference GND on pin 8 ) it would be useful. Presumably, +5V will give max speed. Check to see that you're getting something close to this. If you are, then i'd be checking parameter settings of the controller. I can't help you there because I don't have the software and I haven't seen a parameter listing.
If your readings are significantly below +5V, i'd start looking at the throttle.
Sorry can't be more help. You need Higher counselling ;)
Jeff
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hi I checked the foot throttle voltage...its 5v. ;D .
Hi I will post the pictures of software ;)...help me pls.
Attaching photos of controller software tabs.The following 3 tabs seems meaningful for changing motor speed :-\.So I am posting these 3 tabs pictures.As u can see in controller tab.rpm is set to 7000 both forward and reverse.
Help Pls :( !!!!
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I don't see anything out of the ordinary in there, except an unidentifiable number of pole pairs (2nd image top left).
Before I noticed that though, the idea of questioning the number of motor poles had occurred. I had a couple of pole count issues on my build as well. At one point I think I was running at half speed... if memory serves. :)
But, you really need more eyes on this thing. Might be a good time to yell for The Perfessor (Alan).
Jeff
P.S. If it makes you feel any better, I spent all of yesterday setting up several VFD's (Variable Frequency Drives) and soft starters for motors ranging from 10HP to 75HP at 480V 3ph. Got 'em all running, in spite of panel build wiring issues (Grrr...). I understand how frustrating these things can be.
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It might be possible to wire the motor differently to give a higher speed.
If my memory serves me right, the 10kW motors have six separate connections for the phase wires which should allow them to either be wired in Star (Wye or "Y") configuration for torque, or Delta configuration for speed.
I'm guessing it's most probably connected in Star configuration at the moment, reconfiguring it for Delta should make a big difference to its top speed.
You may need to email David (wyh@goldenmotor.com) for more information on configuring the phase wires.
Alan
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Hi as u said I have to look closer regarding the pole pairs and il post further.....meanwhile I have 6 separate wires coming from motor . 2 yellow , 2 blue , 2 Green wires 8). presently I have wired motor and controller as per the photo shown.
I don't know how do the motor configuration inside is....is this star or delta connection :-\?
pls guide me .... :-[
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I'm even more confused now I've seen your photo as I was expecting the different colour pairs to be connected to either end of each phase winding, but I don't think it would run at all if they were separate ends of the windings and joined together as per your picture.
It would appear that the configuration of the windings is not user adjustable as I had first assumed. Perhaps it simply uses two parallel wires for each phase to help carry the extra current.
What voltage are you running your motor on and what is the maximum current that your pack can supply?
Alan
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Glad you said that Allan. I was confused too.
If each winding had it's own color, then this termination would result in no electrical pathways.
I'm afraid to even hazard a guess.
???
Jeff
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hi thanks for the reply..
I am running my motor @ 72V system using Lead acid battery pack six nos(each battery has 120Ah).
Motor is running too in this connections,i have seen max amps 250A at one point drawn from battery packs.
regards
praveen
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Okay then. I'll bite.
That implies that these leads are not the actual winding ends, but simple conduits. They look to be about 10 awg. At your amperages a single multi-strand 10 gauge wouldn't be enough.
If that's the case, and those leads are running directly into the motor, then the actual winding configuration would have to be inside the motor casing.
I'm really willing to be proven wrong here. :)
Jeff
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So is that the end ?.... :-[ . We cant do anything ?...i have to run only with 4500rpm ? :'(
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how to find number of pole pairs ?.... ??? ....any idea ?
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Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that was an end.
If you're willing to crack open the motor casing, then you can (or should be able to) access and identify the 3 phase windings (6 leads). Having identified said windings, you should be able to determine whether it's connected Wye or Delta. I'll leave you that as homework, cause there must be a zillion Google Pics.
Let me point out however, that windings configured inside a motor casing would be rare. At least rare in my experience... In fact, i'd have to say I've never seen one done that way (unless my little grey cells are dying :) ). In my defence, i'd have to say that none of my industrial clients has asked for a review of a Chinese motor. I might have missed something here.
I don't know how experienced you are. I might dive in feet first to resolve a mystery like this, but i'd suggest you get a second opinion, such as Alan's, before going further.
If you don't have much experience and you're going to dive in anyway, please make sure the battery is disconnected first.
...I'm jus' sayin' is all. ;) He might have kids.
Jeff
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Hi Folks,
My experience about motor windings is like yours, with the ends of the windings available external to the motor, often in a little box nicknamed the "peckerhead" because of its distinctive shape. :)
However, it looks to me like the winding ends are available : the yellow wires connect to the ends of two windings, the greens to the other ends or other windings, and the same for the blue pair. So I think you have the ability to change the configuration from the delta it looks like to me. You can Ohm them out by separating the colored pairs.
I need to take a look at the photos again......
TTFN,
Dennis
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Yea, my next guess is that if you disconnect all the phase wires from each other, the yellows(or greens, blues) will be an open circuit to each other, and a low resistance to one of the other colors.
Test it and find out, and then you can configure it as a star or delta as you wish.
And I have no idea if it will affect your rpm......Are you using direct drive so you can't change drive ratios?
TTFN,
Dennis
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Thanks for the reply............
hi I do have a little box "peckerhead" at the end of each terminals in my 72V motor ....i will post motor photo asap clearly...
il check resistance across terminals and come back to you..!!!
Regards
Praveen
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By "peckerhead", I presume you mean Marr connectors?
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Look closely and use your imagination, while you think "peckerhead".
TTFN,
Dennis
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Hi I m showing my motor photo with marr connectors and pecker head box. I have labelled picture.correct me in case if I am wrong.
Actually I have 2nos yellow , 2 nos green , 2 nos blue cables running out from that "box" along with 2 black wires has connectors for hall sensors.
Do u think if I open that box I can change wiring configuration (delta/star) and so I can increase my motor speed ?
Regards
Praveen
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Hi Praveen,
Ignore my comment about the wiring in the peckerhead. It was only for industrial motors I have worked with. Also, I have to tell you that I have no idea if changing the configuration of your windings will effect your max speed. And no idea about your software's ability. Apparently Jeff has considerable experience in those areas. I do , however, have some experience in a lot of other things.
What I was talking about was based on your photo of your controller. It seems to show two yellow, two green and two blue wires attached to their respective terminal studs, for a total of 6 wires. 6 wires are required for 3 phase windings. So it looks to me like the motor is currently delta connected. By removing the 6 wires from the controller terminals you can Ohm them out and confirm they are indeed the ends of the phase windings.
And since I'm typing, I'll waste a few more moments of your time. One thing I have learned in over 50 years of hot rodding various things is that you can have speed, or torque, or money. But not all three. You get to choose.....
TTFN,
Dennis
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For the sake of argument, let's assume that each winding has it's own color. The earlier picture of the controller would put each winding in a physical loop (yellow-yellow, green-green and blue-blue) to each output terminal. Clearly, that cannot be the case since no electrical pathways would exist. (I'm just repeating myself here).
If the motor windings were connected directly to the controller output terminals in a Delta configuration, one would expect to see yellow-green, green-blue, and blue-yellow on the terminals. I'd be surprised to find the motor all ready configured as Delta - especially running that slowly against spec.
I don't think this is going to get resolved until Praveen cracks open the motor, with Alan's blessing I hope. Of course, Alan might be off playing Shuffle Board or a Bingo game. These cruises can get pretty wild. ;)
Jeff
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Before going and cracking open the motor casing, i'd try to find the motor pole count and see if it agrees with the controller parameter setting. Might be as simple as that.
J
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Hi Jeff,
Please forgive me, but I'm afraid I must disagree with your assumption of each winding having its own color. Like you said, there would be no current path. Since the motor does spin, there must be a current path. So the colors must be meant to convey something else.
So here is what I am trying to communicate: Customers are often assumed to be ignorant by manufacturers. Thus, the wires are color coded to hook them up to the manufacturers controller, not to indicate which wire actually connects to a particular winding. There is no need for L1,L2,L3, etc markings, as is common with industrial motors. Just hook the two yellow wires to the yellow terminal, the two green, etc.
A simple test with an Ohmmeter is needed to confirm the point, but since the motor spins, I think the point is moot. No need to open the motor.
And I'm hoping Alan is doing something more exciting than shuffle board. Water skiing behind the boat, maybe?
TTFN,
Dennis
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Yes, it's possible that the manufacturer color-coded each each winding end differently. I'm doubting that though, since doing so would likely add additional handling costs to the build process. But, maybe you're right.
The windings in your scenario would have to be configured Delta, and that's another point that sticks in my craw. I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to choose speed over torque. I'm betting that it'll be configured Wye.
As it so happens, I was wrong once before. Happened back in '89 (... a long and boring story follows).
;)
Jeff
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And I'm hoping Alan is doing something more exciting than shuffle board. Water skiing behind the boat, maybe?
Dennis, I don't need to dangle myself off the back of the boat as it has its own "Flowrider" on the top deck:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Flowrider.jpg)
Anyway, it looks far too risky for me, I'm hoping to be brown all over when I return to the UK - not black and blue!
Alan
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Hi Alan!
That looks like a great deal of fun.
I'd like to watch with a bevie in hand, tho.
Enjoy your holiday. We'll be fine.
TTFN,
Dennis