GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Gregor on December 18, 2013, 04:17:52 PM
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I bought the Magic Pie III kit with the 48V10AH battery.
Installed it on my MTB with 26” back hub motor using the twist grip throttle. I have not used the software to programme it.
Running it straight out of the box. It ran perfectly for 37 miles then just died.
The day it died I had covered 5 miles. I cycled home as the wheel is still turning ok. On getting home I charged the battery which only took 30 minutes so I know I still had power.
Next day I went to my garage and tried it again. The three lights are all on but nothing from the hub. When I spun the back wheel and tried the throttle it worked right up to full throttle. Great thought I. When I sat on the bike again turning the throttle. Nothing. So I peddled and it would work if I only just turned the throttle a tiny bit. Then it cut out with too much throttle. I lifted the back end and spun the wheel and it worked again but when turning really slowly there was a really noticeable judder from the hub with noise too. Back into the garage with it.
Next again day after charging the battery again I checked it. All three lights still on. Nothing from the hub. Spun the wheel again and turned the throttle. Nothing. It now will not work at all. Lights still all on. I have checked all the connections and wires and all are fine. The wheel is turning ok when it is all plugged in and when it is unplugged. I should also add that I don't have the brake levers on. I am using my hydraulic brakes. I did put them on just to check and they both worked fine.
I am hoping someone might have an idea as I am no electrical boffin.
Cheers
Unhappily. Gregor.
At least this picture made me smile.
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I suggest you start by seeing if you smell burning from the hub.
If you do, then you are looking at replacement.
The next step is to put a voltmeter on the power lines, and see if there is a sudden drop in power when you press the throttle, that would indicate that the battery is damaged.
(It can charge to full, but drop under any load if a cell or two are bad.)
I always recommend a fuse in your power lines, it is very easy to overload these
things.
1000W/48V is just over 20 Amps. You can exceed this by riding up a hill or being a bit large like myself. (250+Lbs)
Good luck and keep us posted.
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The juddering sounds like sensors failed in the controller. First of all when you were spinning the wheel and then getting throttle and motor working I thought you must have been running sensorless i.e without the above mentioned sensors working, as the pie controller is designed to deal with this.
It could be that a fuse has blown in the battery as mentioned above. Due to everything being moulded and internalised in the pie 3 it makes it really hard to tackle things
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where did you purchase the kit?
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I bought the kit from Gary at GM Canada. I have put the same post on his page. I don't know if he has seen it.
I shall have to ask a friend who has a meter to check the above. As suggested by e-lmer.
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I bought the kit from Gary at GM Canada. I have put the same post on his page. I don't know if he has seen it.
I shall have to ask a friend who has a meter to check the above. As suggested by e-lmer.
If you are having a problem with something purchased from my website follow the link below. I am overwhelmed and do not get to the forum much lately.
Gary
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BTW, I did see that picture a few weeks ago when I was viewing this link. I blew right by it as many pictures on this link are a lot more interesting.
http://www.tifr.us/tifr/2011/04/30/why-not-its-saturday-225-photos-of-sexy-girls-riding-bicycles.html
Gary
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Hi Gregor - I feel your pain... My first conversion attempt lasted 81 miles before the controller died.
It's probably worth taking the controller out and visually inspecting it. I've had two controllers fail in my first 500 miles and both showed obvious signs of damage when opened up (burnt/discoloured areas).
If you do need to get the controller replaced (via Gary at GM Canada) then it might be worth requesting it be replaced with the newer 'Universal' model. I have one of these and it looks more robust than the older type. Certainly the waterproofing has been beefed up (there is a video knocking around somewhere of this controller running fully submerged in a bucket of water). It was water damage that destroyed my 2nd controller.
Hope you get back up and running soon...
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Gary. Heather Graham though....mmm
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i am so glad that the kit was bought from Gary, he has been brilliant with me in the past he is a man of his word and a legend on this forum! 8)
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Well said that man. I just need to know if I can use my allen key to check. I cannot afford to send the whole f*%king thing back to the other side of the planet.
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i would not know what to check for. just take the cover of the motor and have a look at the controller.
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I just thought with the product being brand new. It should have worked. I installed out of the box and it has already failed. After 37 miles. Bit scunnered. It's not cheap.
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just go through Gary GM canada
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Hey Gregor,
I'm still waiting for you to create a new ticket.
www.goldenmotor.ca/ticket
Gary
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Hello.
I have taken my controller out and there was a build up of white kinda flaky crystal type stuff. In my short clip you can see it on the inside of the controller cover. There was lots of flakes loose in the controller housing.
Wondering if anyone has seen this before. First thought was salt, but the roads have not even been gritted locally this winter and the MP has only covered 37 miles. Not even on a wet day.
I've put a wee clip here. If anyone has any ideas????
Gregor.
http://youtu.be/B1FrxY9wzpo
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Hi Gregor,
If the video file is too large to attach to your post you will need to upload it to YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/) or Photobucket (http://photobucket.com/) etc. and then post the link here.
Alan
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Hooray.
Fitted my new controller, received from Gary at GM Canada under warranty, now up and running sweet.
A big big thank you from me to Gary, he had the controller at my door in four days from posting it. Excellent.
Cheers Gary.
Thank you to all who helped with this post.
Still wondering about the white stuff?
A happy Gregor ;D
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I can now get some pictures of the bike put up.
Gregor 8)
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Glad to hear it...
The white stuff I believe is from one of the capacitors popping.
Gary
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OK right. Thanks Gary.
Gregor.
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The white stuff I believe is from one of the capacitors popping.
When my capacitors popped they spat out lots of little fibres (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3075.msg19349;topicseen#msg19349), no white stuff whatsoever.
I've just had a good look at the video and the "white stuff" appears to be corrosion probably caused by water in the controller housing. Aluminium can oxidise very quickly when exposed to moisture.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/corrodedaluminiumcasting_zps6b105b09.JPG) (http://www.finishing.com/447/44.shtml)
Click on the above picture for more details.
I would say that water has caused the oxidation and probably caused the failure of the controller as well.
I strongly suggest against using a hosepipe or jetwash to clean off your bike anywhere near the motor as it will find its way into the controller housing! ;)
Alan
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it does look like that water has entered the motor. the axle inside the motor looks quite rusty considering such minimum use. I was wondering if the white stuff could be the white goo used to hold the capacitors in place but seeing that it is on the motor housing near the cover seal trhen it must be oxidisation. when rebuilding the the motor it maybe worth placing some sealant around the hub cover edge before screwing back on. If the water has entered via the cable/axle then try taping up the area with self amalgamating rubber tape, it is really good stuff. Just a thought...... ???
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Hello all.
This is my rockhopper. I'm a very happy bunny. I used the smaller of the right angle brackets from flower tub holders to fix my battery into my triangle. Did not even have to drill them. Just seven holes in the battery mount plate. It is solid. I found having the battery on the seatpost rack was too heavy. It made the front end too light and skitterish. Feels so much better balanced where it is now.
Again thanks to all of you for your invaluable assistance. Big up to Gary S.
Fanks.
Gregor :D
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Bonny Scotland.
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That's fanastic, the ride will be so much beter now, there's no looking back! I would type more but I don't have the time. maybe later.... ;D
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more drama. I'll add some more soon. With pictures.
sorry, I meant scary drama.
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blumming 'ell mate. what now?
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Andrew, after the rebuild I took it out to go to my brothers to show him. I got about a quarter of a mile from my house. Just pootling along at about ten mph on a very dark compacted gravel path with lights on. It was 8.00pm'ish. The beast just got possessed by something very evil. It just went to full power and flippin blasted off and because there was dog walkers coming towards me I had to act quick. They were about 20 yards away. I hit the brakes as hard as I could and jumped off hoping to grab the back of my saddle and lift the beast off the deck. Did I manage? No chance because I had to let the back brake go the beast just snarled and reared up on the back wheel, flipped and took me down with it. It then went totally mental and spun on the grass at the edge of the path, digging big divots out of the ground. I managed to wrestle it and flipped it up on to the saddle and the handle bars. I could then get to the key and cut the power, oh I didn't mention that I had no kill switch, I have now.(see pics.)
Anyway the upshot of this episode is when the beast hit the deck because the cable you get on the throttle is so short, the throttle spun on the bars and the cable pulled on the plug on the cable harness and snapped it. (see pics.) The wee plastic bit is still inside the throttle cable and thank the stars, all five of the pins are intact. If I can get the plug to go together it should work fine. I will use araldite to join it. The thing is, my wiring of the new controller, all the new flag crimps I put on were done by my friend, John, who is a cabling engineer. We were meticulous in our efforts so I have no idea why the beast went mental and went to full power. When we built it and turned it on and throttled it upside down it was fine. It was a totally dry night so it was not water getting to anything. I'm baffled. Just hoping I can get the broken plug back together. If not I shall just have to hard wire it. So my question for you is, could you point me to where I might find diagrams to tell me which wires in the harness do what? Sorry this is so long winded but there you go .
Any advice will be noted and acted upon.
fanks, Gregor.
P.S. When I pull on the GM brake lever, because there is no cable connected, the wee catch where the cable end fits into it drops down and prevents the lever going back in if let go so I can just pull it and let go to hit my front brake. A bonus.(see bottom pic.)
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you have clark disc brakes why are you bothering with ebike levers. get rid of them. make the bike as simple as possible. throttle, controller and motor is all you need. I have no experience with the Pie 3 where everything is internalised which makes everything more difficult to fix when broken.
If you need a new throttle I may have a spare, but it is for Pie mk2.
I do not know for sure why the motor would go wild like that. Bikemad may be able to find you a diagram.
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Cheers Andrew. The throttle is not busted. It is the plug on the wire harness. Thanks for the offer anyway.
I'm not getting rid of my lovely Clarks hydraulic brakes. I have just put the GM lever on to use as a kill switch, with no brake cable in it. I am going to get a friend to cut the wire and solder it into the spare button on the control next to the cruise control button. Alan, a.k.a. Bikemad has put up detailed pictures on how to do it. It is a doddle to do. It's just that I don't have a soldering iron.
It shall live again, The Beast.
Griogair.
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Unfortunately, I don't have any diagrams that show the colours of the wires inside the cables, and I'm not convinced that all harnesses and controls would use the same colours anyway, but this one indicates the function of each of the pins:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/LatestMP3wiring.JPG)
I would use cyanoacrylayte (Superglue etc.) instead of Araldite as it will provide a stronger bond on the connector block assembly.
I suspect the full speed fault was caused by a faulty ground connection (battery -ve) somewhere on one of the connectors or a wire within the harness. Check the centre pin of the eight pin round connector for cleanliness and make sure the plug is pushed completely into the socket.
If the throttle connector had been partially broken before the event, it could have slowly worked its way apart allowing the earth connection on the throttle to separate first causing instant full throttle.
You should always ensure that there is enough slack in the cable to allow the handlebars to go from lock to lock without straining any of the connections.
Alan
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Thanks Alan.
I will do that. I don't think the plug was busted already as I had it set up so the bars could swing right round both ways. I am looking at the 8 pin plug right now and all seems fine. I nearly pooped myself when it happened because it was pitch dark. If it had been daylight I could have handled it while on the bike i.e. reach down and turn the key off but as there was dog walkers in front of me mixed with the dark I didn't want to run over some ones beloved pooch. That would have been tragic.
If it comes to it I shall just have to open my throttle to see what's what wire wise. I already know the brakes are black and blue because I have already unscrewed one of the switches to peek in at it while trying to figure a way of using just the switch.
Again thank you Alan for taking time to offer assistance.
Griogair.
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Time to get an iron..... http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/649068.xml (http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/649068.xml)
Don't buy a really cheap one, or you will end up buying twice. The one in the link is about as cheap as you can go and still have good heat.
Try and always carry cable ties, self amalgamating rubber tape.
Get rosin core lead/tin soldering wire. 60/40. And brush up on you tube for soldering tutorials.
Welcome to the world of ebiking :D
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Thanks to you Andrew. Here we go
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Hooray again. I managed to retrieve the little broken piece out of the plug. All I need to do now is glue it.
The Beast is back.
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Haaaah ;D Quality! 8)
Just one note, be careful with your rear dropout on the rock hopper frame as they are usually made for thin quick release spindles so are not very deep, that was a potential problem I once had with the stump jumper frame equivalent to yours. Have you got a torque arm of any kind?
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Not yet Andrew but I am well aware that the dropouts are shallow. I have a spanner on the axle jubilee clipped on to my seatstay as a temporary measure till I get some torque arms organised. I am taking it easy till I can afford some.
It is running super. I just got it going today and had a wee five miler. I know you say get rid of the GM brake levers but it is only on as a kill switch until I get the brake switch wired to the horn. If I had put it on in the first place I would not have had the few days set-back that I did.
Anyhoos cheers for thinking about the dropouts.
Gregor.
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Hi,
You can try this as a brake switch for your hydraulic brakes.
http://www.bikeonlineshop.net/spare-parts/pressure-switch (http://www.bikeonlineshop.net/spare-parts/pressure-switch)
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Thanks Eriknoort.
I shall need to look at something when I have the cash.
Gregor.