GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Andrew on April 27, 2011, 08:47:01 PM
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:D :D :D :D
It's been blood sweat and tears!... and a lot of swearing, but it's finally finished 8)
Specs:
Photos show my fully loaded dual GM 250Watt Mini Motor Bike.
54volt 20Ah Lithium ion Battery pack
x2 GM Magic controllers. Currently set to 10 amp continuous, 20 amp peak.
26" mountain Bike Build with Avid BB7 disc caliper brakes, Schwalbe Big Apple Tyres 26x2.35
What can I say?
The bike is really light and nimble compared to my Magic Pie bike. The frame bag contains the two controllers, all the wires and the battery pack. Positioning of the pack is a dream come true keeping weight distribution very balanced and centre of gravity low.
I started today with a test drive with the controller set to 36 volts, Current 6A cont., 9A peak...... This was rubbish, i'd rather burn out the motors than use the bike at those settings, there was no power at all. At this setting it just made pedalling a little easier, it would be just as easy to carry the bike on my shoulder and walk :D
The magic controllers are set to 10amp cont and 30amp peak as default on the mini motor kit, so I'm hoping that 10cont and 20peak will be ok.
The setting at present is 10A / 20A peak , 48 volt. This was more like what I was hoping for. The hill climbing is comparable to when I ran one Magic Pie although you don't feel the torque/pull as you do on a pie. These motors 'just' made it up the long steep hill near my home, the hill is in two halves, with a small dip to regain momentum half way up. The motors made it to the top but I assisted very briefly without any muscle effort.
The motors are very quiet and discrete and just what I need for city centre riding as well as long distance cruising in the sunshine ;D It's actually nice to have an e-bike which isn't all aggressive and all or nothing like my Dual Magic Pie.
I have no speed or meter readings yet, but they will be posted here very soon. ;)
Sorry for the over exposed washed out photos from my phone....
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0038.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0041.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0039.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0040.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0045.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0044.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0043.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0042.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0035.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0036.jpg)
Hopefully more feed back soon, including my better half's small light weight build.
Andrew :)
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Looks Great Andrew!
Very stealthy! I like the way the motors blend in with the disk brakes it looks really good. Very few people will ever notice its electric unless you are not peddling at all :)
Gary
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That is F-in awesome looking stealth.
Awesome job!
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Hey Dude, she is looking nice and tidy.....sweet indeed.....have you got the screwdrivers back out of the wall where you threw them ??
How's the performance on one wheel ( I mean you did Sarah's bike first right :D )
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hey Dude, she is looking nice and tidy.....sweet indeed.....have you got the screwdrivers back out of the wall where you threw them ??
Hows the performance on one wheel ( I mean you did sarah's bike first right :D )
Believe it or not I started on Sarah's bike to keep her sweet, but one thing led to another and my bike build took over as we awaited a frame bag for her bike :P
I've just now this second test ridden her bike with one front mini motor and the 54v/10ah battery you made me. Her bike is set the same as mine on 48v and 10A cont, 20 peak. The bike 'assists' you when pedalling but really lacks luster on its own, but that's all she wanted.
I will try and do a couple of uphill runs with the watt meter on, and also tie on my sat nav to get some accurate speeds and get some stats up for both bikes.
As for screwdrivers etc, I took over the spare bedroom for about 5 days and poor old Sarah has got up every morning to find more soldering in front of the TV in the front room. ;)
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Indeed our other halves are patient lol
I'd be careful doing non assisted hill tests on one motor......the chances of stripping it get higher with just one motor and 500W input.......anyone else got experience of the overcurrenting of the mini motor ?
To be honest that will be what I use it for , assistance as opposed to power......I must admit I was really tired of the weight of the 2 pies.........one seems to be a nice mid point, specially with the power brought up
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haha I think my bike is the likely reason why I don't have a mrs at the moment
Hey Andrew is that your 'donor' bike you got for free?? cool bananas
**Ginge LOL you keep posting seconds before I do haha nice work
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yup, its a bike posting frenzy lol......
so who else is planning their second / third / fourth electric bike ?
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I don't care what people build as long as they use one of these bad boys
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/HPM-10KW%203D.jpg)
lol ;)
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Hey Andrew is that your 'donor' bike you got for free?? cool bananas
Not completely free, the frame was bought brand new for £50.00 on eBay. Bottom bracket, headset, brakes were the main other outlays. Handlebars, forks, crank, seat donated. Some parts I had lying around.
Anyway here are some stats....
just tested my bike
54v at 10 amp cont, 20 amp peak
928 watt peak :o
19.04 amp peak
that's all I can pick up at present from the turnigy watt meter.
On the source side it also reads 44.6 watt hours and 0.912 Ah, not sure about this are these measurable with distance/time? or do I need the 'load' side figures?
I will not be doing any non assisted hill starts or even flat starts if I can help it ;)
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54v at 10 amp cont, 20 amp peak
928 watt peak :o
19.04 amp peak
that's all I can pick up at present from the Turnigy watt meter.
On the source side it also reads 44.6 watt hours and 0.912 Ah, not sure about this are these measurable with distance/time? or do I need the 'load' side figures?
Andrew, the "Source" and "Load" on the watt meter are used to indicate which way the measured current flows (Source= Battery, Load =Motor).
If it was wired in the opposite direction, you would only measure current going into the battery from the motors (Regen current, which should be zero in your case).
Presumably the 19.04 Amps peak is for both motors, but as you have different voltage motors, one is probably drawing more current than the other.
I don't care what people build as long as they use one of these bad boys
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/HPM-10KW%203D.jpg)
That would be far too restrictive, you should insist they use at least one, but more would be much better! ;D
Alan
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I totally concur :D lol
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indeed our other halves are patient lol
Mine's not, it only takes a day and I get "take the f'n thing out of the living room! And clean up all those bottles!"
I must admit I was really tired of the weight of the 2 pies.........one seems to be a nice mid point, specially with the power brought up
Ahhh but when you run dual pies and no battery weight, the center of gravity is low and it's really a different ride! I'm lovin it!
Gary
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I maybe living on borrowed time with the amps, perhaps I should turn down the peak amp?
I have a 42 tooth chain wheel up front and a shimano freewheel 28 -14 tooth cog and I surprisingly run out of gears which tells me I must be doing 20mph. I have yet to GPS the bike for speed.
The bike is too fast at present as I do stil want to be able to pedal with a little effort.
Anyways, heres's some more piccys...
Sarah's bike..
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0047.jpg)
Todays "His and Hers" bikes and an off road test ride....
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0048.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0052.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0053.jpg)
We got back home after about 90 minutes of riding and went straight to the shops to buy Gel cushioning seat covers :D :D
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A couple of points chaps.....
a...Andrew...are you sucking in the tummy in those photo's :D ;)
b...Sorry Gary, didn't mean to be sales prevention......dual pies were great, but at my work I had to go up about 6 steps.....went like this...grab bike, lift bars, hit thtottle by accident, graze shin etc etc....
I must admit the dual pies give a lot more balance to the bike...I really do have to consider weight distribution when accelerating up hills etc....
c...I thought about one of those big motors on a Sinclair C5......then I sobered up....but hey....that's the bug
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I maybe living on borrowed time with the amps, perhaps I should turn down the peak amp?
I have a 42 tooth chain wheel up front and a Shimano freewheel 28 -14 tooth cog and I surprisingly run out of gears which tells me I must be doing 20mph. I have yet to GPS the bike for speed.
The bike is too fast at present as I do still want to be able to pedal with a little effort.
Anyways, heres's some more piccys...
Sarah's bike..
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0047.jpg)
Todays "His and Hers" bikes and an off road test ride....
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0048.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0052.jpg)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/IMAG0053.jpg)
We got back home after about 90minutes of riding and went straight to the shops to buy Gel cushioning seat covers :D :D
Wow People Pictures!! I Luv it! Suck in that gut Andrew!! Haha What a pretty girl like that doing with a shlub like you! lol just kidding :) Sorry too many beers, just having a little fun at your expense, please forgive me! :D
I know what you mean about the gel covers. Did you notice the seat on my bike its like sitting on a soccer ball :)
Gary
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b...sorry Gary, didn't mean to be sales prevention......dual pies were great, but at my work I had to go up about 6 steps.....went like this...grab bike, lift bars, hit thtottle by accident, graze shin etc etc....
Please don't try to restrict your comments worrying about my sales. I'm not here for that I'm here for fun and education! 6 steps that would be a hassle. I bump mine up two steps nightly and drag the bob trailer with four batteries in it as well. Thats enough of a work out for me! :P
Gary
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I should have known that posting people pics would lead to trouble - lol
It's amazing how a camera lens distorts things out of shape, it's especially bad on flat surfaces which tend to show up 'slightly' rounded ;)
Anyway, back to business
I think I will drop the voltage on my two controllers today to 36v, and see how it compares. I don't think I have the hands and patience left in me to wire up my cycle analyst just yet, although it's tempting. the only problem with packing everything into a frame bag is that soldering and dismantling becomes a real issue
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Sorry buddy :)
Let the forum know that out of the 2 of us, I am the chubby one :D.....
Nice frames though, where did you get on eBay ?
I think changing the power won't make much difference, best suggestion is to fine tune the amps.....drop 1 for average and 2 for peak until it feels better
Or if it's top speed, then if you can get a charger, we can reconfigure the batteries to a lower voltage higher ah...36 volt chargers are about £50....or could be cheaper if you contact Gary quickly before my order ships lol
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this is the frame I bought... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BANKRUPT-26-WHL-ALLOY-DAWES-DISC-TAMARAK-BIKE-FRAME-/170630333610?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27ba5c44aa (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BANKRUPT-26-WHL-ALLOY-DAWES-DISC-TAMARAK-BIKE-FRAME-/170630333610?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27ba5c44aa)
This one is good for the price if you want a steel frame and forks and only V-Brakes, saves the hassle of finding the correct fitment forks,headset etc... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BANKRUPT-26-WHL-18-BIKE-FRAME-AND-FORKS-HEADSET-STEM-/170614100577?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27b9649261 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BANKRUPT-26-WHL-18-BIKE-FRAME-AND-FORKS-HEADSET-STEM-/170614100577?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27b9649261)
Some good deals from this seller, I spoke to him on the phone to change my order from the steel frame to the Alloy frame and he was helpful. Postage was free and quick and frame was well packed
I've turned down the voltage to 36v on both controllers and there wasn't(as you say) any difference.
Watt meter showed 910 Watts peak
I'll start dialing down the amps, see what occurs, and don't start me spending my money again, I'm all done! for now anyways.... ;)
Sarah's bike was bought already built, total bargain bought end of season as new model was coming out
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Yup, I'm bored again...just looking at ways to sit comfortably my 30 ah 18650 cells.....
So anyway, I'm investigating making custom fibre glass moulds.....jeez I need to start knitting or something
measured any heat difference between your 24 and 36 volt minis ?
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As yet I have felt no heat from the motors, though the frame bag with battery and controllers gets quite warm!! I haven't really given the motors a proper beating yet, as riding with Sarah needs patience when doing an average speed of about 8mph ::). the one cool thing about these light weight motors is that I've found myself over the last two days off-roading, which I would not do with the weight of a big direct drive wheel.
Never mind fibre glass, what about carbon! - Phwooar! :D
I've never used fibre glass, but I bet you could mould some very user friendly cases or battery packs, it's a very interesting idea.
How's about BMS's for your packs? Do they exist as components which can be bought?
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Very nice bikes both of them, good and professional work.
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Very nice bikes both of them, good and professional work.
Thanks mate. Did you hear that everyone... "professional" ;D I like GonZo, he's a cool dude!
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If Sarah ever reads the forum .......
Anyway, yes indeed BMS's can be purchased......I placed my order last week for a 10AH charger from BMSBATTERY.com, before learning the forum comments on endless sphere that all bms and chargers form them blow up eventually...dang,, I don't want no 80ah blowout :o
So I hear that the following company do great BMS systems, from what I learned, for 2 custom builds landed cost was £100 for one forum user form china to USA, so I guess its a case of lets all save up our money and apply a bulk purchase, should help a bit to lower the unit cost...If it doesnt hit 15-20 per PCB, don't seem worth it to me
http://www.szsmartec.com/EN/
than major battery reconstructive work on each battery pack, and a sh!tload of insulating tape...my outdoor battery shed was much cheaper
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7205705/Trail/searchtext%3EOUTDOOR+STORAGE.htm
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We have used BMSs from BMSbattery with out technical problems but it is a nightmare to order from them... but we still order from them occasionally.
As well we usually have stock of the szs BMSs but not all models anyway if some of you are interested on some particular models I can add them to the next order for them.
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Thanx Gonzo, fills me with a little bit of hope .....
One of the problems I think the long distance guys have is getting home, and getting the batteries charged again for the next day...so the 10Ah charger should hopefully take care of that
thanks for the BMS offer too....we specifically are looking for 18650 cells 13s.....probably about 40A output peak...
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so who else is planning their second / third / fourth electric bike ?
Its funny you bring that up, it has now been about 3 weeks since I finished my CCM build. I find my self searching ebay for a recumbent frame again. I think its time to sell a few of my previous projects
Gary
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I love the Avatar Gary! that bloke gets about. I recognised the avator pic that I'm using from a"Guiness book of World records" book when I was a child in the 70's. I'm sure he was under the title for World largest man. How times have changed, he's meerly a featherweight in todays ever accelerating consumer society :D
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Andrew, I noticed in the picture below that you've removed the mirrors, no doubt a last minute attempt to reduce the load on the poor motorbike, but I guess they probably didn't stick out far enough to be of any use to you anyway!
I can't believe it took me so long to finally realise that you and Gary are actually twins:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gxSlzjACVCU/TUK54BYT6WI/AAAAAAAAAC0/OjuWRUtZE2s/s1600/motorcycle-twins.jpg)
Alan
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I'm glad you've brought up the mirrors Alan, they are extra wide - wide angle, but I still only mostly see checkered trousers ;)
:D :D :D
That's such a funny photo. It's 'ZZ Top' on steroids and burgers. I wonder if it was the worlds largest twins?? seems to ring bells somewhere in the cobweb depths of my head.
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I can't believe it took me so long to finally realise that you and Gary are actually twins:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gxSlzjACVCU/TUK54BYT6WI/AAAAAAAAAC0/OjuWRUtZE2s/s1600/motorcycle-twins.jpg)
Alan
Thats not Andrew, Thats Ginge!
Gary
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Found one of BikeMad!
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/fat-cyclist-in-lycra.jpg)
I guess the outfit makes you more Aerodynamic Alan?
Gary
PS Maybe we should go back to peddling... Naw...
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Found one of BikeMad!
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/fat-cyclist-in-lycra.jpg)
I guess the outfit makes you more Aerodynamic Alan?
Gary
PS Maybe we should go back to peddling... Naw...
LMAOOOOOOOOOO
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Lycra and and sandals, what a combo, Alan surely is Bike Mad!. That is so funny :D, nice find Gary. :D
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Found one of Bikemad!
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/fat-cyclist-in-lycra.jpg)
I guess the outfit makes you more Aerodynamic Alan?
Below is what I used to look like before I discovered lycra, it's really quite amazing how it has transformed me into that svelte, streamlined shape you can see in the above picture! ;)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/I%20Beat%20Anorexia_zpsj4fhix5x.JPG)
Alan
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Just a quick update.
As you may remember I was running a rear 24v 250w motor and a front 36v 250w motor.
Both controllers were set to 9A cont. 18A peak.
Highest peak wattage seen shared between these two motors with a 54v 20ah battery was 750watts, but I have no idea how this was being shared between the different rated motors.
I actually saw 34mph on the Cycle Analyst which was accurately setup and tested against GPS. This of course was going down hill with freewheel ability being a big helping hand ;)
23mph is an average speed recorded on flat ground.
....
I now have x2 36volt motors running together as the 24v was removed from the rear wheel and relaced by Forum member DirtyGinge (The great teacher that he is means I will be able to tackle this task myself in the future, thanks Mate!).
average top speed on flat remains about the same, 23-25mph
there is a little more 'umph'/torque on initial acceleration but torque is still very very limited compared to a pie :D.
The ride/acceleration seems a bit smoother
With controller setting remaining the same as above I've recorded a peak wattage of 830w, with 800 coming up more commonly.
At present I feel that I can get away with this power delivery as long as I pedal on take offs and of course on hills. I always pedal TBH anyway.
I highly recommend the dual mini set-up, I find it a much more relaxing leisurely ride than riding the Pies, that is if you want to keep the overall feeling that you are riding a bicylce. ;)
I've also had to change my front chainwheel to a 48 Tooth, and I've got a rear freewheel with an 11 tooth cog on the end. I find I use only the two highest gears when upto speed, and maybe 3 to 4 below that when having to stop at traffic lights ready for quicker start off the line.
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Hi Andrew,
Glad to hear it is finally all sorted out and you are riding again. I know what you mean about the dual mini setup. I really love the lightness of the bike. I use my dual pie ride for my daily travels back and forth to work. It's a power house and pulls me and the trailer uphill to work with ease. But my dual mini is pure pleasure to ride and it's what I use when riding with my son, friends or both.
Gary
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hehe, and as usual, ive gone completely bonkers and rigged up the 24.....
Going to do a post shortly....brace yourselves
24V mini running at 48V, 10 amps, peak 800 watts ( yup one motor)....
See how long it lasts, then ill get the screwdrivers out :)
Andrew, great teacher ?, it didnt go quite smoothly if I remember lol :D, thanks buddy, always good to spend time with you
How was the wine ?
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how WAS the wine :D, I like the fact you've asked that question in past tense, - as it's all gone. Absolutely lovely and strong, I feel spoilt.
800 on one :o should be interesting what melts first!! at least if it then happens to my kit you'll have already done a post mortem on your doomed motor ;)
As it happens I have my controllers set to 36volt, if that makes any difference overall? i'm not sure...
It would be cool (after first death)to get a small metal gear running inside the hub and then see if this strengthens the overall gearing
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well I know what the wine is like, once you pop, you cant stop
the 36V option will only set the low voltage cutoff in the controller, and could be dangerous for a 48v pack...
From what I have researched, the first thing to go is the hall sensor wiring ( insulation melts), then the gears.......
Ive had to set some rules at this ampage, all of which ill detail on the thread, but hell, what a workout today :D, need an epoch