GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Electrobent on February 26, 2011, 05:22:37 AM
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My 12 FET controller has arrived. I find some posts on endless sphere saying that I would have to swap the yellow and blue hall and phase wires Y-B, B-Y, G-G. Can anyone here confirm this?
Also how many amps can a 1000W GM hub handle?
What about the stock phase wires?
Thanks,
--Eric
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Hey buddy
Yes you are correct, but you didn't look hard enough lol
I saved this one time I saw it, I just paste it stuff like that in notes and search for it from time to time. Looks like thats a good thing ;)
Phase sequence for infineon: [I found this on ES somewhere, didn't record the topic...]
I think this works for Kelly controllers also.
From wheel = Blue Green Yellow
To controller = Yellow Green Blue
You could use the stock wires with a 40A infineon controller, anything beefier and I would be changing the phase wires to at least 12AWG
The most powerful pie conversion I found on youtube once was a 18" cast MP laced into a motorbike wheel then on a MTB running 110v from memory. I wouldn't peak the wheel past say 80A but I would say something around 60A would be the pain point. Are you going to try and let us know? hehe
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thanks for the confirmation and I'll try to keep from frying anything.
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HELLO
please where did you buy the infineon controller? ebike.ca ? cos I am about to buy one but hesitate between the 35 and THE 40 A
I am afraid of the 40 A in an intensive way ! I do not want the motor to heat to much
I just want to have power when I need some
how many A does the GM controller has ?
thanks
fred
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hello
forgot to say I AM USING A 48V10Ah battery
fred
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My controller has a sticker that says "EC-124110LD Lyen Edition"
That means it has 12 4110 100V MOSFETs.
I bought from Edward Lyen to whom I was referred on Endless Sphere where his username is "lyen"
http://www24.brinkster.com/lyen/beta/
I just sent him a private message on Endless Sphere and told him what wheel (48V 1000W pre-Pie) and batteries (48V 10 AH, NiMH mounted 3/4 of an inch apart so that they can cool) and asked him what he had that would work for me. He gave me the choice between 12 and 18 FET models.
I think I was advised into the 4110 because of regen--I'll never be able to fry those 100V FETs. Most of his customers lay down braid to beef-up the traces on the circuit board. I hope to add in my extra 24V worth of cells (left over from combing two 36V packs into 1 48V pack) to get to 72 Volts. These airgapped NiMH cells are good for regen as they require no BMS and are rated at 5C (50A).
I bought the USB cable and downloaded the software and will set up my three-way hardware switch to set three max amp settings conservatively at first.
I think that the stock GM controllers are a little less than 20A.
I have been told that my wheel can handle way more than that. I don't, however, think that my batteries can (in terms of range--they can spit 50A but probably last a lot longer if they don't). I can't see needing more than 30 for my purposes. I don't want to go 40 mph! I chicken out in the mid 30s on the crappy roads they have around here. (Can you say "Crumbling Infrastructure?")
I plan to put it all together tomorrow and will post how it works out and whether or not any wire swapping is required.
--Eric
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I plan to put it all together tomorrow and will post how it works out and whether or not any wire swapping is required.
Eric, if it's based on the standard Infineon controller the wires should be the same as GM's:
I got it to work with this way of connecting:
Mp phase wires: same as controller y to y / b to b / g to g
From the throttle to controller: white goes to green / black to black / red to red ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It will be interesting to hear what difference it makes to your motor's performance.
Try not to cook those NiCds. ;)
Alan
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Ok, she is together and charged up. I did have to do the Blue Yellow swap. Have not tried any programming yet. Out for a ride now.
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I think it may be due to a difference between the HBS and the Magic Pie:
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2171.0;attach=2895;image]http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2171.0;attach=2895;image)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/hallsensors.JPG)
Did you have to swap the Blue and Yellow hall sensor wires as well, or just the phase wires?
Anyway, it's nearly 2:00am here, so I'll have to read your report on the test run with the new controller when I get up again later today! ;D
Alan
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I swapped yellow and blue on both the hall and phase wires.
I have not yet tried any programming.
Speed 1 is really wussy,
Speed 2 is a little less than what I had.
Speed 3 is probably 30% more than I had.
I went on my standard ride: 18.15 miles. Elevation gain of a 1000 feet. High Speed 25 mph. Got home with 49.5 volts left. (Forgot to measure on the way out but it is usually 57.5 or so fully charged.
The regen seems to be on a little bit whenever you are not on the throttle and a little bit more when you squeeze the brake. I think I want to lower the always on amount and increase the when you squeeze the brake amount. I stopped at the top of the very steep hill where the GM controller started beeping at me and felt both the hub and the controller. Both were ever so slightly warm to the touch.
I think I'll be goosing everything up a notch.
This will be sweet at 72 Volts!
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I bought the USB cable and downloaded the software and will set up my three-way hardware switch to set three max amp settings conservatively at first.
I have not yet tried any programming.
Speed 1 is really wussy,
Speed 2 is a little less than what I had.
Speed 3 is probably 30% more than I had.
Eric, it's good to hear that the modified Infineon controller is working so well, but are you getting 30% more speed or 30% more power?
I'm guessing it gives better acceleration and more hill climbing power, but a similar top speed to the GM controller.
Any chance you can post a link to the software? as it would be interesting to see exactly what parameters can be adjusted on that controller.
It would also be good to know how many amps are allowed at each of the three pre-set max amp settings. Perhaps you can post a screenshot showing the default settings. (Press "Alt" + "Prt Scr" and then paste into Paint, Word or another art package and then save.)
Alan
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I stopped at the top of the very steep hill where the GM controller started beeping at me and felt both the hub and the controller. Both were ever so slightly warm to the touch.
I did that after a long ride, checked the back - no worries, put my hand to the other side of the front and YOWCHHHHHH -- I accidently touched the disc brake...
Won't make that mistake again lolllllllllll
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I was asked not to share the technical stuff but I did find this link on ES that makes most of it a matter of public information:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7361
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Today I wired an el cheapo harbor fright digital voltmeter in parallel with my battery right where it enters (exits) the controller. 57.4 Volts out the door. I left the speed switch on III the whole time. (Yesterday I got the guts to try it halfway up the 1000 foot hill.) I did use more juice and was crawling up the super-steep part at 40.3 V in my lowest gear. The level recovered to 49.5 with the load removed and going down the super-steep hill earned a volt. I finished with a no-load voltage of 48.5. This is 6 1/2 volts above the most conservative LVC but it is already dead for practical purposes.
The most I got from regen was 55.1 V.
NiMH can be charged at between 1.4V and 1.6V per cell. I have 40 cells now (with plans to go to 60).
40 X 1.4 = 56
40 X 1.6 = 64
So it seems that I can safely goose that a little unless I move to San Francisco.
The infineon has both throttle and brake regen. They both brake the same amount. With the throttle brake, you have to twist the throttle a little to coast. If you slow down enough, it will let go so you have to squeeze the brake lever to come to a complete stop. Its not quite as much brake as my stock GM controller. So this too, suggests goosing the regen a bit.
The throttle regen takes a little getting used to, but is nice once you do. I was going to turn it off but now I think I'll keep it. With any luck I can use the throttle to ease into a brake set at a higher level.
Still hoping to hear from Edward Lyen how he set it up before he sent it to me.
Rain is forecast . . .
--Eric
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Well, I got up the guts to reprogram my controller.
I wish I hadn't because now it is not working.
ARGH
Now we will see how good Edward Lyen's customer support is.
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Yipes !
Just when the stats were churning out hope you get it sorted mate
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All is well:
Edward got back to me with every number. Turns out that program calls LVC "halt V" and since I did not know what that I was, I did not change it and ended up overwriting it with the default 57 which was one volt more than I had at the time.
Even the highest setting for the ebrake seems less than the default Golden setting.
I was able to set the max regen voltage to 60 (up from 55).
I set the three speeds at 80, 100, and 120% of max.
That turned out to be fast enough, too fast, and waaay too fast.
So bottom line:
The Infineon is superior to the cruise controller, and an infineon built with 4110s is a tank.
The program to set the GM controller is a lot more user-friendly but is not as powerful over all.
Next time I do this, I am buying a GM wheel from Gary in Canukastan, another Infineon controller, and probably a Ping battery.
Anybody here replace the bearings in a GM wheel? I think I am going to get to wear these out!
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Replacing bearings is straight forward. Don't do it until you really need to though ;)
Is the top speed the same as the GM controller?
Cheers man
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Much faster than the stock GM cruise controller with factory settings.
I dumbed it down from 80-100-120 to 60-80-100.
I don't even know that 120% is max. I sort of thought 100% would be but apparently not.
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Next time I do this, I am buying a GM wheel from Gary in Canukastan, another Infineon controller, and probably a Ping battery.
Anybody here replace the bearings in a GM wheel? I think I am going to get to wear these out!
And a proud Canukastanian I am! Is electrobent saying something positive about GM here? Where is my calendar, I have to mark this down :)
Magzy changed his bearings outside on the patio beside his house, Check this post.
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2632.msg15371#msg15371
Gary
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Hey all...
electrobent can you tell what is the top speed at 120%?
also-did you have any problems geting the wires out the pie (three phase and three halls)?
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I'll have to get up the guts to try that again with someone following me or my GPS on--and I have a 20 inch wheel.
I have opened Pandora's Box and now my battery is too small and I have increased the probability of hurting myself.
I have not yet changed out my phase wires but it should not be a problem assuming they fit through the hole in the axle. Need something with heavy duty but thin insulation.
I am told on ES that the 48V 1KW GM motor can run at 72V 40A with 120 max phase amperage.
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Ok, I knocked my max amperage to suck from the battery to 25A (from 30), set the max phase current at 74 (only had even numbers--I was looking for 75 to be three times 25).
I set the speeds at 60, 90, and 120
and went out riding with MyTracks running on my HTC Evo. It must be doing some averaging because its graphs do not reach down to zero and I know I stopped a couple of times. The highest peaks on the graph look like 24 or so but the highest recorded speed was 29.08. That's with me pedaling as hard as I could in my highest gear and the motor pegged at the 120% max setting. That's with a 20" wheel. So if you upped the amperage a tad, you could probably get real close to 38 mph with a 26 inch wheel but you better have nicer roads that we do here in Southern Kalifornia.
It was too dark to do a longer run. This one was about 6 1/4 miles. Started at 57.9V, ended at 49.6, rose to 50.1 after pushing the bike in a 100 foot driveway, and rose another .5 V to 50.6 after sitting for a couple of minutes.
60 is a pleasant ride, 90 is moving along, 120 is running away from bionic dogs and praying not to hit a pot-hole.
Anyone know how to change the settings on MyTracks to shut off the averaging?
--Eric
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I don't think that the wheel size matters-Yao once said that they use different windings for different sizes... not shure tho!
With my internal controller Im doing about 41km/h, hope to boost up to 50 with infenion! (should be here soon ;D)
electrobent: can you tell me what kind of switch do you have for speed settings and where it is connected-I forgot to order the damn switch! :-\
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I don't think that the wheel size matters-Yao once said that they use different windings for different sizes... not shure tho!
What Yao actually said was:
You might find it strange, however the 16" is made to hit that speed. The windings are different, lower torque but higher speed. Go check out the Tq figs for the 16" and you shall understand!
I suspect this speed increase has simply been achieved by using Delta winding configuration instead of Star, and I'm pretty sure that the increased wheel speed is only relevent to the 16" cast Magic Pies.
The 20" wheel that Eric (Electrobent) is using is fitted with an HBS hubmotor:
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/hubmotor-imgs/f-e.gif)
These motors already have a higher RPM than the standard Magic Pies, but it would be interesting to see if the Infineon controller does actually produce a faster unloaded wheel speed, or whether it's simply able to spin the wheel faster against the same load because of the extra Amps being delivered.
Alan
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its just a three position rocker marked "I" "II" "III", the schematic is amongst the wealth of technical information about the controller that is available here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7361
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I was able to to do my loop at 90% on the 25A setting. 58.5 V to start. 48.5V 9 miles and 1200 feet up later. 49.5V once back home. I am really liking the throttle regen: it lets you feather the amount of braking and you can find a sweat spot where you can't really feel it but you are ever so slightly charging. It also makes for less harsh braking. The ebrake is better than the two rim brakes. Max speed at 90% speed is about 25 mph, 120% 30 mph. I think I had my old GM 36V 500W setup going 36 once. Things start to get a little hairy above 25 mph on all but the very newest of roads.
My controller and my wheel can handle far more current than I have battery to accommodate. I guess I'll add it my other 24V and see how that is. Have to modify the Infineon board to get the regen to work above 60. The mod involves changing out a surface mount resistor. I am glad I know someone who has done that before!
I think it would take about $4K US worth of batteries to really work this controller-hub combination.
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I was able to to do my loop at 90% on the 25A setting. 58.5 V to start. 48.5V 9 miles and 1200 feet up later. 49.5V once back home. I am really liking the throttle regen: it lets you feather the amount of braking and you can find a sweat spot where you can't really feel it but you are ever so slightly charging. It also makes for less harsh braking. The ebrake is better than the two rim brakes. Max speed at 90% speed is about 25 mph, 120% 30 mph. I think I had my old GM 36V 500W setup going 36 once. Things start to get a little hairy above 25 mph on all but the very newest of roads.
My controller and my wheel can handle far more current than I have battery to accommodate. I guess I'll add it my other 24V and see how that is. Have to modify the Infineon board to get the regen to work above 60. The mod involves changing out a surface mount resistor. I am glad I know someone who has done that before!
I think it would take about $4K US worth of batteries to really work this controller-hub combination.
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but if you want batteries that can handle such power then you need LiPo and Endless-sphere is the place to study.
If you are not familiar with LiPo, it's not as easy as plug and play and you don't have a bms, but you can fast charge some of them up to 30 amps+. And discharge up to 40C which is much more than required for an E-Bike. The zippy LiPos are good price. I have ordered 4 x 6S 8ah. And I will make either a 44 volt 8 ah for short trips, or 16 ah for longer trips.
You can make a cheap enough LiPo pack, but the charger and power supply will cost, depending on how fast you want to charge, but it should be seen as a long term investment and should last many years! you also need cell monitors that sound an alarm on cell low voltage.
There are also high C rated ready built LiFeP04 packs, but are very expensive.
Another thing with LiP0 it can cause fire if abused, either charging or discharging, and you usually have to split the pack up to charge in parallel.
Mark
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Hi Mark
Did you mention li-po ?
Where did you get yours, pricing etc ?
Cheers buddy
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Hey dinge,
I got my LiPo from Hobby King in the U.S
I got 4x 8S 8AH Zippy Lipo cost $430.00 inc shipping!
The advantage to me is it's light, and I can split the pack in half depending on if I want lots of exercise or fun!
A ping 48V 15 AH costs 594 inc shipping, ping 1C Zippy 30 C ;D
Mark
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I got 4x 8S 8AH Zippy Lipo cost $430.00 inc shipping!
I thought you were going to use 6S packs?
Alan
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I got 4x 8S 8AH Zippy Lipo cost $430.00 inc shipping!
I thought you were going to use 6S packs?
Alan
Ops! Yep indeed 6S lipo 8ah!
Thanks Alan! ::)