GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Void7775 on July 08, 2015, 03:23:46 PM
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hi.
i've bought a golden motor which has the motor all black like this:
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
1000w 48v. 20A controller
i bought new lead 12v 18ah batteries. (initial current 5A)
i've connected all the wires right (i double checked. I also looked at the instructions manual) but the led lights from the throttle don't light up at all.
the screen lights up and shows info. if I push the throttle just a bit .. the motor pushes a bit(but not too much..it barely moves the bike without me on it). but if I push it more it chockes and rattles.. and in the same time a car battery sign flashes on the screen. but I don't understand why.. the batteries are brand new. and I checked the voltage for all. it's 12.8v.
thanks for reading.
the info of the batteries:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oomipood.ee%2Ffailid%2FPS18-12.pdf&ei=Qj-dVZ3BF8nX7Qb9t42oBg&usg=AFQjCNELjoteHKjUt8P4Lde7ka9rNykzbg&sig2=PfJYWbICVZfZ6f3lNQjH1g
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at the start the screen shows that battery is full.. but when I turn the throttle it quickly goes to 20% and shows the battery sign.
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another thing I noticed was that the regenerative brakes weren't braking the wheel when I pressed the brake.
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1.the controller came in the same box. this is the kit that I have. it's from golden motors
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
2.i pushed the big red blue yellow wires well together and now the motor doesn't start. it just makes a click when I open the screen. and a click like the mouse click when I push the throttle.
3.yesterday i've put a battery to charge and the led went from green to red on the charger. then after 2 hours it flashed red-green on and off. which I interpret as beeing charged.
4.i've put the voltmeter to the series batteries and it says 51V.
5.i'm putting the other batteries to charge too until I see the green led flash. after that I will post again with the results.
6.i tried also putting 3 batteries together instead of 4. the lcd started up but it showed that the battery is empty. the motor didn't start.
7.you recommend that I switch the blue yellow wires?
8.i'm using small wire crocodiles to connect the batteries in series and to the controller. they don't heat up at all. could this be the main problem? http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1304017648/Free-shipping-20pcs-Double-ended-font-b-Crocodile-b-font-font-b-Alligator-b-font-Clips.jpg
9.note that I didn't connect the brake wires,pedelec wires last time.. just the throttle and batteries. now I connected all the things I could(without putting them on the bike wheel) in case this was the problem but the motor still didn't start.
thanks
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Hi and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum.
Although the hubmotor appears to be a GoldenMotor unit, I have not yet come across any kits supplied by GoldenMotor with that particular controller and display unit.
If it is a GM controller, it is possible that it might be the older style regenerative controller, but I have not seen those for sale for many years. I suspect it is a non-GM controller that does not support regen.
Those wires are much too small to carry the current required for a 1000W motor and will definitely cause a huge voltage drop under load which is why your battery indicator drops so low. If you put a voltmeter directly across one of the wires you should see the voltage rise as soon as a load is applied. Ideally there should be no voltage showing across the length of each of the connecting wires.
I suggest you connect the batteries with some more suitable heavier gauge wire and see what happens. If you still have problems with the running and power of the motor it could be the phase and/or Hall sensor wires are connected incorrectly.
I suggest you contact your supplier to find out exactly how that particular controller should be wired to the GM motor as most non-GM controllers are generally wired slightly differently to the GM controllers.
Alan
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hi. thanks. I will put better wires and post later.
more info:
the motor always clicked when I turned it on. and few days ago when the engine was working a bit.. the wheel spinned at high speed if it was off the ground. but when it was on the ground it gave problems.
this is the lcd. I will try and find the manual http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HT1ewNAFS4dXXagOFbXu/200521947/HT1ewNAFS4dXXagOFbXu.jpg
the second battery charged fully in 1h too. which would indicate that it was nearly full.
i saw that other people have gel batteries.. I have lead-acid. could this be a problem?
10. the voltage shows exactly 51.8v
11.i tried all the combinations on the wires but it only clicks like before.
12.the screen shows a belt with an M letter inside it .. which didn't appear when the motor was pushing a bit. =(M)= . I don't know what it means. and it shows up even after I disconnect the power from the batteries.
when the wheel pushed a bit..the battery had 12.8v.. then I charged it(only one battery) and it has 13.08v but the motor now doesn't push at all.
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the people who sold it are just importers.. they surely don't know technical stuff.
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i've put better wires but still no start. what does =(M)= mean on the screen?
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this is the controller I have http://screencast.com/t/yswx1xmaQMYo
i got the picture from here http://www.dhgate.com/product/36v-250w-small-motor-18inch-powerful-ebike/180373624.html
i also opened the controller to see inside. it looks good and doesn't smell burnt.
i changed the wires but still the motor doesn't start.
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1.the controller came in the same box. this is the kit that I have. it's from golden motors
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
2.i pushed the big red blue yellow wires well together and now the motor doesn't start.
Something is definitely wrong here as GoldenMotor use Yellow, Green and Blue for the phase wires on all their motors and controllers, a thick Red wire would be for the battery + connection to the controller. (Unless you're Red-Green colour-blind like I am ;) )
the people who sold it are just importers.. they surely don't know technical stuff.
Unfortunately, if the product is faulty, it is your supplier's duty to rectify the problem (either a refund or replacement etc.)
I suspect that the controller and the wheel may not have been connected correctly (Phase and/or Hall sensor wires) and the controller (and possibly the Hall sensors) may have been overloaded and damaged as a result of the incorrect connections.
You can check that the Hall sensors are still working correctly by measuring the voltage on each of the Yellow, Green and Blue wires at the Hall sensor connector while the wheel is turned very slowly by hand with the battery connected and the black meter probe connected to the battery - connection.
The voltage on each of the three Hall sensor wires should alternate between 0V and 5V as the wheel is slowly turned by hand.
Take a look at this post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2409.msg14247#msg14247) and this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m8DA6mmo84) for more details on testing the operation of the Hall sensors.
If the Hall sensors are still working properly and the motor still doesn't run it is probably the controller that has failed.
the motor always clicked when I turned it on. and few days ago when the engine was working a bit.. the wheel spinned at high speed if it was off the ground. but when it was on the ground it gave problems.
i saw that other people have gel batteries.. I have lead-acid. could this be a problem?
10. the voltage shows exactly 51.8v
A high wheel speed under no load which struggles when load is applied could be caused by a mismatched Phase/Hall wire combination.
The type of battery chemistry should not make any difference to your particular problem, with 51.8V available the motor should work (Assuming you have a 48V controller).
Alan
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my bad. it's "Yellow, Green and Blue".
the last time the motor ran I was pushing the bike with my hands to see how much force it gives. but it didn't "break" then. it worked and I just switched it off.
the all the wires give 5v without alternating at all while I turn the wheel (the wheel is on the ground.. and I just push the bike to turn the wheel). what does this mean? the black -red wire gives 4,37v.
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The all the wires give 5v without alternating at all while I turn the wheel (the wheel is on the ground.. and I just push the bike to turn the wheel). what does this mean? the black -red wire gives 4,37v.
If you're getting a constant 5V reading on each of the Yellow, Green and Blue Hall sensor wires with the Hall sensor connector plugged into the wheel it would appear that either all three Hall sensors have failed and will need to be replaced (unless the controller is somehow overriding The Hall sensors by supplying the 5V feeds that you are measuring).
If the Hall sensors are definitely faulty, it is also possible that the failed Hall sensors might have damaged the controller, but you won't be able to find out until the Hall sensors have been replaced (or you try the controller on another wheel).
Here are your three main options:
- Return the faulty kit for either refund or replacement.
- Replace the Hall sensors and see if it cures the problem.
- Purchase a suitable sensorless controller that does not require the use of Hall sensors.
lyen@hotmail.com
he sells an infineon sensorless controller....i purchased a 48V which runs perfect
You will have to decide which option to go for.
Alan
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can't I open the motor and check somehow if the sensors are good? instead of replacing them..
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It is very unlikely that all three sensor output wires are disconnected, but if there was a break or poor connection on the common ground or feed wires (the thin Black and Red wires) connected to the three sensors, it could prevent them all from working.
You should check with your supplier that you are not going to invalidate the warranty by dismantling the motor before you take anything apart.
Alan
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there is no warranty. what should I do after I open the motor?
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You will need to use your meter to check for continuity between the connector ends of the Hall sensor wires and the connections onto the three Hall sensors.
I don't know whether that motor uses a printed circuit board as a junction unit or whether the wires are simply soldered direct to the Hall sensor legs.
Perhaps you can post some pictures of what it looks like inside once you have removed the side cover/s.
Alan
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hi
the motor looks exactly like this http://s266.photobucket.com/user/Link_Of_Hyrules_Bucket/media/Schwinn%20S-Go/DSCN0537.jpg.html no circuit board on it.
1.i did this test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9ngpOKS5o and it was like in the video.. the wheel was resisting. this means the controller is good.. right?
2. combined with the fact that the voltage doesn't alternate like I said previously ("the all the wires give 5v without alternating at all while I turn the wheel /the wheel is on the ground.. and I just push the bike to turn the wheel. the black -red wire gives 4,37v.") .. it would mean that there is a very good chance that the sensors are broken.. right?
3.does this mean I have to replace all the sensors?
4.what should I search online to buy these sensors?
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It does sound like the Hall Sensors are faulty, and as none of them are working, all three will need to be replaced.
The Honeywell SS41 Hall sensors (http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Honeywell/SS41/?qs=%2Ffq2y7sSKcK%2F%252bhfJuO3wrA%3D%3D) are commonly used as replacements for most hub motors and should be obtainable from most large electronic component suppliers.
If you can't obtain them locally you could try Edward Lyen on the Endless-Sphere forum (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20410).
Alan
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thanks
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hi.
i've bought a golden motor which has the motor all black like this:
http://s2.postimg.org/w30b9qw3t/P1070304.jpg
1000w 48v. 20A controller
i bought new lead 12v 18ah batteries. (initial current 5A)
I changed the hall sensors because I had problems + I have put wires for 220v between the batteries and it works stronger now.
in my house if I get on the bike it starts and pushes pretty strong. while having no speed if I put my legs on the ground and accelerate it begins to spin and stars having some speed without stopping.
if I put the bike against a wall and accelerate it pushes for 3 seconds and then stops because the wheel isn't
but the problem is that when I get the bike out on a very small incline.. it gets started but it stops after about 3 seconds. why?
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It's difficult to say for sure what is causing the cutting out, but if the battery wiring is not able to supply the rated 20A that the controller requires (which can sometimes be much higher for short bursts) the voltage will drop significantly under heavy load, causing the cutting out that you are experiencing.
Are the 220V wires that you have used suitable for high current, or are they smaller in diameter than the motor's power cable wires?
Does the battery warning light appear on the screen when the motor is under load like it did before?
If so, you really need to check the voltage at the batteries and at the controller just before the motor cuts out and see whether the voltage is too low at the battery (poor batteries) or just at the controller (batteries are good but the power wires are still too thin).
With the wheel against a wall, the controller should cut out after a short time to protect the controller and motor windings from being overloaded by the stalled motor, but this should not happen if the motor is turning, unless it is still struggling under a very high load at very slow speed (or if the phase wires are not connected in the correct sequence).
Alan
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i used the cables from something like this http://cdn.altex.ro/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/8/381.250k_-381.251k-_-381.25_1_1.jpg
they seem the same diameter as the motor power cables.
it takes off and pushes hard at for about 3 seconds with me on the bike but then it cuts off at a slow speed.
when I pushed the acceleration a bit it worked then when I pushed it more it cut off.
the battery voltages are still 12,8v at every one.
something else that was odd was that when I turn the acceleration it shows the power meter without ever going above 70%.
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Those cables should be rated around 13A @ 220V (unless the extension lead states a lower figure) but could struggle to deliver 20+Amps @ 48V without having a significant voltage drop across the length of the two wires.
I have found that lead acid batteries often suffer from a noticeable voltage drop under load, even when connected with good heavy duty wires. However, if they are connected with thinner wires that cannot handle the current flow, the overall voltage drop will be even greater.
Under heavy load, the combined voltage drop across the batteries and wires can sometimes be large enough to trigger the Low Voltage Cutoff in the controller, which forces the motor to cut out, and I suspect this may be the reason why your motor is cutting out under heavy load.
Weak battery cells in older batteries can also suffer from excessive voltage drop under load, but simply measuring the individual battery voltages before and after the event is unlikely to highlight the problem, as the battery voltage will usually rise again as soon as the heavy load is removed.
The best way to confirm whether or not the cutting out is being caused by a significant voltage drop at the controller is to measure the actual supply voltage directly across the controller's battery connections while the motor is under full load.
If the voltage drops below ~42V (for a typical 48V controller) the Low Voltage Cutoff will usually switch off the motor power to prevent the batteries from being overdischarged.
Using thicker battery wires (combined with good battery terminal connections) will greatly reduce voltage drop between the batteries and the controller, which should also prevent the Low Voltage Cutoff from being activated prematurely.
Alan
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ok. thanks. I will try that later.
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Hello Void7775
is this really a GM Motor? I've been watching GM's BLDC since about 2009 but never seen such a motor from GM (but from others like elfKW OEM Versions). Using LeadAcid is not the best solution (alone the strong clamps to get them stable on a bike is enormous), just like fitting cables (20A needs a 2,5 mm^2 isolated cable each and connectors; as bigger as lower the drop).
What you describe sounds like the (I've two MagicPie3) overcurrent protection and later the undervoltage protection in action. What have you programmed in your controller? Are you sure the controller is working with the motor (and who told you that)?
Cheers & good luck
Sam
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hi.
i ran it a few times while the bike was against the wall and a sensor pin got loose. I opened the hall and fixed it.
the LCD also has a voltmeter. so I've put the bike wheel in the air and pushed the acceleration to the max.
the power bar is empty when I don't push the brakes. the power bar gradually goes up to full when I push the brakes (gradually to maximum). the voltage reads something like 48v when it's running without brakes. and when I push the brake that hard that it makes the wheel stop it drops to a minimum of 41v and when I release the brake after that it starts immediately accelerating without having to turn the throttle back to 0 and then back to maximum.
from my perspective it looks good now. it's working as it should be working right?
last time I tested I was outside and the engine stalled and stopped completely at a small incline(i had to turn the throttle at 0 and back to max to start it). I tried to reproduce the incline in home by applying the brake.
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now I tested in a different way. I applied the brakes fully with 0 throttle and then accelerated progressively. it didn't choke anymore. when I released the brakes a bit it started to spin a bit. the power cables for the motor got hot. will this be a problem if I go up a hill? does it have a temperature cut off sensor?
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If the cables are getting "hot" then I would say that they are not thick enough to cope with the current and it could cause serious problems if they become hot enough to melt under continual uphill load. :o
If there is a temperature sensor in the controller it would not be affected by hot wires outside of the controller and would not provide any protection against the battery cables overheating.
I would replace the cables with heavier duty cables to prevent further problems.
Alan
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thanks for the help.
the wires from the battery are not getting hot at all while the 3 wires from the controller to the motor are getting hot if the wheel is stopped or if I apply the brakes hard to simulate a hill climb. the motor wires are original and came with the motor itself. they are going directly in to the motor.
the motor is 1000W and the controller is 48v.
are you suggesting replacing the motor to controller wires themselves?
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my bad. I tested again now. the wires of the battery are also heating up. I am already using good cables I think from this http://cdn.altex.ro/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/8/381.250k_-381.251k-_-381.25_1_1.jpg
what cables should I use?
could it be the connections? I just use screw bolts to hold the wire pinned down to the battery connections.
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i was pushing the brakes until the power meter got to about 70%. only then the wires started to be hot a bit.
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Hello Void7775
again: are you sure the motor and the controller work together or even meant to be together? As my MP3 controller failed a few weeks ago AND was already the third to fail in a row I switched to an external one which did a lot of funny things (shudder, cummutate when it shouldn't, was quite weak in performance, to high top speed (with no torque)) until I looked into an oszi and found that the controller was build for a different HALL sensor arrangement (no config possible) which was not mentioned. So another 50 EUR spent for a nice BLDC controller.
Cheers
Sam
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the person that has sold the controller to me is registered and shown (i checked personally) as an offcial goldenmotor.com distribuitor. he gave me the controller in the same box as the motor. how can I check that it is for this motor or not? the voltage and amperage shown on the label of the controller say:41- 48v 22A. so it seems ok. also it has force when it pushes. I have 90kg and it pushed me well when I stood in front of the bike and accelerated to test the force.
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Hi
the seller should warrant that the controller works flawlessly with the MP3. If it's just any BLDC controller it might be just as my case.
As mentioned mine would work, but lose a lot of energy due to early initiating the power to the windings and therefore working against the magnetic field, what makes the wires quite hot (energy is wasted) and it shudders when under load. As I have an direct comparison (the replacement internal MP3 controller) it's easy to see and feel the difference. As I never has seen an MP3 with no internal controller I'm not sure if this is even an GM motor, but that's not my "problem" or just one of the cheap reproductions.
As I'm driving (two) MP3's for three years now I'm quite happy with it; unfortunately the internal controller is defective the third time in two years.
Cheers
Sam