GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Kneedeep on May 07, 2017, 11:59:58 PM
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I have a black pie 5 and on the first ride it will not go over 26kmh and will not connect to Bluetooth or windows. When Bluetooth dongle is connected the motor pulses unless throttle is unplugged. When display is connected it say error 2 when brake is pulled. it will not pull more then 400watts when riding and viewing the display. today was the first major ride for the bike and it sucks that a new setup does not work. I will call goldenmotor Canada this week but I have tried to talk to Gary before and very little luck. My first hurdle with this install was when I mounted the brake disc and the hardware took M6 not M5 bolts and I had to drill the disc out. Talking to Gary about that lead to being ignored so I will see what happends.
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I will add that when first connected the motor would go to 64kph on the stand and now will only go to 26kph in the air.
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Hi and(https://i.imgur.com/evDSMvT.png)to the forum.
It sounds like some further testing is going to be required to try and locate the cause of your problems.
As the error 2 relates to throttle failure, and it only occurs when you apply the brakes, it's possible that a faulty brake switch could be causing this.
Unplug the front brake lever connector and see if the error code still appears when you apply the rear brake.
If it does, plug the front brake connector back in and unplug the rear brake connector and try again.
If it only occurs on one brake and not the other, the brake lever that is causing the error may be faulty.
However, if both brake levers produce the error 2 code with the other one disconnected, then it could be a problem with the controller itself. :(
Alan
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I will try that I think I might have already but will see. I had the bike out just now for another test and it will go to 999watts up a hill then down to 350-100-250-350watts cruising almost like a speed setting. If I could get it to connect to something so I could read it, then I would have more info to be sure. I will add the bike is heavy at 114lb.
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Sorry to her of your bad contact experience. Maybe it was a time I was on vacation or overwhelmed with shipping. Sorry for that.
Definately Alan's advise is sound. He is the greatest at figuring out these very odd situations. I can only add that recently I have had some customers with bluetooth devices not allowing the motor to work correctly. Once unplugged the motor works fine. I have also once had a controller that I could not USB connect too. Many people do experience a windows connect issue but once they do things in the proper order do connect.
It is entirely possible a new controller will resolve your issues.
For support the best way to resolve any issue with product from me is to click support and support ticket on the site and we will get things fixed up. I do respond to all tickets and sometimes it ends up in junkmail and people don't relize it. Or if I reply and they don't respond the ticket dies off. Whenever a person reponds to a ticket it is presented to me again. If I post and don't get a response it is not shown to me again. That is how the system decides if tickets are resolved. Other people call, chat, send email, text or contact me on facebook or youtube. Its impossible for me to follow up on a paper trail like that. It all needs to be in a ticket. Unfortunately some people get offended that I cant remeber who they are or what they have told me but I talk to so many people its impossible for me to distiguish one persons issue from another at times. I feel bad about that but its beyond my abilities. Most people don't realize how busy it is here.
Anyway I am sorry for any previous bad experience and definately want to move forward with the current issue if you want to create a ticket on the site.
Gaary
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I can only add that recently I have had some customers with bluetooth devices not allowing the motor to work correctly. Once unplugged the motor works fine. I have also once had a controller that I could not USB connect too. Many people do experience a windows connect issue but once they do things in the proper order do connect.
It is entirely possible a new controller will resolve your issues.
I have not rode the bike with the dongle in place. So I tried and it is not drivable at all it chugs and bucks and acts like a pig.
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I was able to get a download of the parameters, will do more testing tomorrow. Parameters all look sound. 48 volt (battery is 54volt full) 25amp/70amp/380rpm/. So I guess my next question is what do most see for top speed out of your set up? My math tells me I am pulling 300-350watts up to 218 rpm of the motor then the watts drop to 0 if going down hill and no watts are pulled till dropping below that rpm again. Its like the controller is set for 218 rpm not 380. I will increase the rpm setting tomorrow and test.
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Could very well be the throttle now with all this info.
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Try unplugging the BAC-601 Smart Display unit and see if your top speed increases.
I think your problem could be due to a weak +5V supply from the controller which is allowing the supply voltage going to the throttle to drop well below 5V when additional load is applied (display unit or Bluetooth dongle etc.).
If the power supply to the throttle unit is low, then the throttle signal output will also be low, resulting in the low top speed. ;)
If disconnecting the display unit increases the top speed back to 64kph on the stand, I think a new controller should resolve your speed issues.
On a positive note, you have obviously managed to connect with the controller, but was the connection made via usb or Bluetooth?
Alan
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USB. With the Bluetooth not working and the power issue I thought it was related but when Gary post the dongle troubles I re tried the USB and found I was not clicking the top left corner icon at the correct time.
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No change with the display unplugged. I have tried to cause a fault by disconnecting the throttle and use the cruise for the half speed limp mode and cannot make that work either. The bike rides as if it is already in this half speed mode it is exactly same speed every test. I tried the fault via brake lever also and cannot make it fault there either.
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I want to take a step back and ask anyone when the brake is pulled and I get ERROR 2 (throttle) does every display do this? If not then I am thinking the fault might be controller/wire loom. If the brake is battery ground 48volt connecting circuit and the throttle is 5volt and signal there should be no interaction except for the controller cut out.
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1 last test before work it is 100% rpm limited. In the air the wheel diameter set at 25inches speed reading for 4 consecutive tests 26.0 kph at 15 watt held as long as you want. Then disconnect rear brake cut-out and test again, 26.0 kph at 0 load pulling 15 watts start to drag the rear brake and drops to 24kph and starts to pull watts up to 500 trying to maintain the rpm limit. So the controller is set at 380rpm I tried to move it up no change. I will need a new controller. I calculate the actual rpm at 218rpm.
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I am able to set my rpm at 100rpm and it slows to half my current speed and back up to 380rpm and still about 220 doing the math set at 250rpm same set at 400rpm same no change. So software is working it just wont go over 220rpm.
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I see you have created a ticket on this issue. Thank you.
I should also note you have 2 other closed tickets.
1 - LCD issue we corrected within 24 hours
2- Throttle issue where you wanted to alter the throttle. We responded but you did not.
No tickets on disk brake screws. As explained earlier we can not effectively follow up on anything without a paper trail in a ticket.
Gary
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Are you able to measure the voltage between the red and black wires on the unterminated cable on the motor harness?
I have a gut feeling that the problem could be caused by a low voltage on the +5V supply.
(https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6222.0;attach=7995;image)
I want to take a step back and ask anyone when the brake is pulled and I get ERROR 2 (throttle) does every display do this? If not then I am thinking the fault might be controller/wire loom. If the brake is battery ground 48volt connecting circuit and the throttle is 5volt and signal there should be no interaction except for the controller cut out.
I have a Magic Pie 4 with the earlier BAC-601 Smart Display unit and mine shows an Error 1 code (brake lever failure) every time the brakes are operated.
The brake switch simply grounds the brake signal wire when the brakes are applied, but there is also an unused +5V wire in the cable going to the brake switch.
If this unused wire accidentally touches against the brake signal switch contact it would also ground the +5V supply from the controller when the brake switch is activated:
(https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5639.0;attach=7994;image)
I realise that your particular fault is not the result of a dead short circuit, but a partial short circuit on the +5V supply could cause the reduced top speed that you are experiencing.
At the end of July last year, I had a forum member contact me via PM regarding a slow MP5, and he also experienced the Error 2 code.
He had tried a replacement throttle, but the speed was even lower than it was with the original one! :(
It turned out that his +5v supply from the controller dropped from ~5V to just 2.1V when the main harness and throttle were connected! :o
In order to achieve maximum speed, the throttle signal output needs to be ~3.25V (or above) but the Hall sensor in the throttle was unable to produce a higher output voltage than the 2.1V it was being fed with. ::)
He was desperate to use the bike and decided to fabricate a makeshift +5V supply (using resistors to form a simple voltage divider circuit that would be powered by battery voltage from the lighting feed) to hopefully cure his problem.
Unfortunately, I did not hear back from him again, so I don't know whether it solved his problem, but I suspect it did. ;)
Alan
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I will test that in the morning.
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3.03volts when on then I unplug throttle it goes to 4.96
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Also now the throttle is disconnected it reads ERROR 2 as it should but now when I pull the brake lever it say EBS this makes much more sense. So could be short in throttle as volts go from 3.03 to 4.96 when disconnected. the voltage is the same with or without the display connected.
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3.03volts when on then I unplug throttle it goes to 4.96
That's exactly what I was expecting, but I'm not convinced that it's the result of a short in the throttle, as a direct short would drag the voltage right down to ~0V.
I still suspect that the 5V regulator chip in the controller is simply unable to produce sufficient current to maintain the +5V regulated output while the throttle Hall sensor is trying to draw the required operating current.
I think this may also explain the Bluetooth dongle problem, as I suspect that the dongle also draws its power from the same +5V supply. The dongle does not work with MP4 controllers (which use the same plug for the USB programming cable) and I presume this is due to the lack of a +5V supply on pin 4 of the MP4 controllers' 5 pin connector:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/MP4/MP4%20and%20SP4%20Harness%20details_zpskxkfbgbw.JPG)
It might be worth plugging in the Bluetooth dongle (with the throttle unplugged) and see if this causes a similar voltage drop on the +5V supply.
If the voltage drops below 4V, then this would confirm my suspicions of a weak +5V supply (faulty controller).
If the voltage stays above 4.5V, then I would suggest that you try to connect via Bluetooth using a suitable Android device to find out if the Bluetooth dongle works.
Alan
P.S. I have just checked one of my controllers to see what voltage readings you should expect to see:
The +5V supply was reading a constant ~4.9V with the throttle and Bluetooth dongle disconnected.
When I plug just the throttle in, it drops to 4.23V.
When I plug just the Bluetooth dongle in, it drops to 4.52V.
When both units are plugged in, it drops to 4.22V
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3.3 volts with dongle plugged in and throttle unplugged.
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2.04 volts with dongle and throttle connected
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I have added a message to the ticket to see how fast I can get a controller.
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HUGE thank you to BIKEMAD for sharing your knowledge in diagnosing was fun. lol ;D
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Got message new controller is on the way. I will order a spare controller if this works just to have.
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Controller arrived with a throttle today. I installed the controller taking baby steps with testing before each connection. First installed the controller very easy and was sure to seat the controller before screws to be sure no wires were pinched.
Then reinstalled the wheel.
Next was Bluetooth up date before any plugs were connected. Check
Then test for Bluetooth function. Check ;D
Then connect display. Check. Then main plug no throttle no brakes. Check. Then brakes and they read EBS when pulled. Check. Then throttle and runs up to 63 kmh. Check
Now I cycled and checked after each connection just in case there was another unknown fault to be safe, took extra 10 Min. Very well worth the time. If there was another fault and everything was connected I would not know where to start. Always make sure sur clip is secure when installing and wires are far clear if getting damaged.
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(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/6_small.GIF)
It's good to know that both the motor and the Bluetooth are now working as expected with the replacement controller.
Now that's what I call a good result! ;)
Alan
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I do respond to all tickets
Gaary
Just want to be sure to give Gary a callout, he does respond to all tickets and has great customer service.
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More testing today went very well plenty of power and speed, 40 mph very easy at 25 amps. Turned down wheel speed to legal limits and turned amps down to 20amps also turned regen down to 45amps as it was nose diving too much might turn down to 35 after longer ride tonight.
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I do respond to all tickets
Gaary
Just want to be sure to give Gary a callout, he does respond to all tickets and has great customer service.
Thanks for that. Its nice to feel appreciated :)
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I did not need the throttle I can send it back. I might need to buy another display. While adjusting the handlebars I stretched the wires and I am getting error 9 and will not work with display connected. Disconnect display and all works fine.
So longer ride tonight plenty of power at 20 amps still might go less on the regen. I plan on a 35km ride tomorrow to work and back to know it will go the distance. Larger chain ring tomorrow to be able to assist on the hills when needed.
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Please, Lets go back to the ticket if you want to continue this.
Gary
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about the throttle? I did ask if you wanted it sent back in the ticket.
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More testing today went very well plenty of power and speed, 40 mph very easy at 25 amps.
Are you sure that's not 40 km/h? As 40 mph seems to be a little on the optimistic side. :-\
With the Bluetooth App, you can simply enter a variable ratio of 1.61 to simulate speed and distances in miles instead of km:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Bluetooth%20app/kmh%20to%20mph_zpsf8z5ygtf.JPG)
It will still have the units displayed as km and km/h, but the figures will actually relate to miles and miles per hour.
Alan
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the display was showing 62km/hr with wheel diameter set at 26 just under 40 mph on flat did this for about 10 sec. I guess something could be off elsewhere I am happy with it though.