Magic Pie 4 (Vector Control)

[GoldenMotor]

http://goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/BAC-601 LCD User Guide.pdf

[Morgen 3Eman]

A few questions...

Will the SineWave controller fit an MP3?  Is it available as a replacement part?  What it the cost for the controller as a replacement part?  Is there software available to support Mac users?

TTFN,
Dennis

[Bikemad]

Hi Dennis, here are a few answers...

It won't easily fit the early MPIII and you would need to be prepared to do the following:

• Machine the axle (or fit the later type if they're compatible)
• Enlarge the inside of the controller housing
• Change the hall sensor plug
• Change the phase wire connectors
• Replace the main wiring harness and controls

I'm not sure whether all of the above will still apply to the more recent MPIIIs.

I presume the controller will be made available as a replacement part just like the existing controllers are, but I have no idea what the price is likely to be.

It should be possible to run the programming software on a Mac using a PC emulator, I wonder if anyone has tried doing this yet?
I don't have a Mac so I can't try it out.

Alan
 

[Morgen 3Eman]

Hi Alan,

I have to believe that GM management has  finally gotten out the known failure parts of the MP3 controller, and I certainly admire the packaging of the built in controllers vs Lyen,etc.  But what really sells me is the sine wave output mode, which doesn't magnetically/mechanically hammer the windings on each and every pulse. 

Any chance you have any photos of the new controller circuit board to share?

TTFN,
Dennis

[Bikemad]

I tried to take a photo comparing the difference in size between the hall sensor sockets to show how much smaller the new connector is but it came out a bit blurry:



Check out Gary's video for more information.

Alan
 

[Morgen 3Eman]

Hi Alan,

Hey, it looks like I better drop Gary a line.  The quality improvements are obvious, even from the video.  The connector change and the conformal coating on the circuit board are huge improvements to the reliability problems I have complained about.  Thanks for the link to the video.

TTFN,
Dennis

[Supchrgamx]

looks like with this controller your moving to the head of the pack
any thoughts on making it a 2 speed hub (y- delta)
don't get me wrong the mag pie 3 was great
pretty sure the mag pie 4 will be greater
if nothing else adding off time into the load cycle should increase distance traveled and reduce heat into the fets
I just think adding y-delta would be the best for top speed cruising
any thoughts

Laurence

[Bikemad]

Will the SineWave controller fit an MP3?

Time for some clarification on this matter.

Basically, the controller can be made to fit the MPIII but unfortunately it will not work properly due to changes with the windings and the hall sensor positions that were specifically made to suit the sine wave controller.
You end up with a motor that will do nothing between 0 and 20% throttle movement, and will suddenly run at full speed throughout the remaining 80% of the throttle movement. You basically end up with a rotary ON/OFF switch instead of a variable throttle and changing the program settings seems to make no difference.

Now that I have actually tried it myself, and I recommend that the sine wave controller should not be used to upgrade an MPIII to vector control.

If you want to upgrade to vector control you will need to purchase a complete new kit.

Alan
 

[Supchrgamx]

what did they do to the winding

Laurence

[Bikemad]

I don't know exactly what was changed but I believe the sequence of the coil windings and the positioning of the hall sensors has been altered to optimise the power and efficiency in both forward and reverse directions.

I don't think that automatic Delta "Y" switching will be an option with the current vector controllers, but as GM are continually improving controllers, I guess it may be possible sometime in the future.

The vector controllers are not universal like their predecessor, they are specifically programmed at firmware level to suit the specific motor that they will be fitted to, therefore a Smart Pie 4 Vector controller is not suitable for the Magic Pie 4 motor (and vice versa).

I have already discovered that the MPIII doesn't work very well with the Magic Pie 4 vector controller, and also that it won't even run with the Smart Pie vector controller.

Alan
 

[Morgen 3Eman]

Thanks for the heads up, Alan

Dennis

[Hastings]

OK Bad timing......   . Does anyone know how well vector control with work with the Cycle analyst/Thun xcell rt  and the external shunt I just got for my second Ebike. I know it is early days.. is there any reason it shouldn’t work ....?
 Due to weight constrains as well as a wish to have a little bit of exercise I probably will go with the Vector Smart Pie.

[GM Canada]

Hi Hastings.

The bike I am doing my testing has the full thun-Cycle Analyst setup on it. I find everything works perfectly.

Here is another new Video on the Magic Pie 4 Vector. You can really tell this is a super quiet and powerful motor. I'm Loving it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgyHPIIjmMU

Gary

[rkts]

Well I've just did a test ride on proof of concept front MP3 fitted with Vector with some mods on winding  (I was not told what exactly was done - phase shuffle?)
All is working fine. I do not see any ON/OFF behavior however torque is low, especially from full stop. It feels more like 2-3A on MP3 however CA readings shows around 20-25A on full throttle. 
Actually I've tried to hold bike with rear brake and do WOT from full stop so it even does not spin front wheel while CA shows around 10-15A draw. Wheel just stays on the ground and after few seconds controller shuts the power to the motor due protection.
I'm not saying it has difficulties to start spinning but it's slow to reach it's RPM even when wheel is lifted. I can ride it from full stop but nothing to compare with original mp3...

Any ideas on why torque is so low? Could it be HAL sensors connected in wrong order or motor would not work in that case at all?

I don't know exactly what was changed but I believe the sequence of the coil windings and the positioning of the hall sensors has been altered to optimise the power and efficiency in both forward and reverse directions.

I don't think that automatic Delta "Y" switching will be an option with the current vector controllers, but as GM are continually improving controllers, I guess it may be possible sometime in the future.

The vector controllers are not universal like their predecessor, they are specifically programmed at firmware level to suit the specific motor that they will be fitted to, therefore a Smart Pie 4 Vector controller is not suitable for the Magic Pie 4 motor (and vice versa).

I have already discovered that the MPIII doesn't work very well with the Magic Pie 4 vector controller, and also that it won't even run with the Smart Pie vector controller.

Alan

[Barbados]

does the sinus controller in the Magic/Smart Pie 4 got a protection against the arc which
occurs when a controller is connected to a battery and which burns down the contacts?
(the capacitors drawing heavy amps for the blink of an eye)