GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: GoldenMotor on May 04, 2010, 02:55:16 AM
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Watch the video first, I will post a FULL Dual Drive explanation + features here soon, as well as a Crazy Dual Drive acceleration video later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-LtJgorqCE
(Don't worry I got a VPN I can access YouTube from now on)
Apparently, after MP II was created, the Dual Drive is no longer dangerous, instead, it's becoming a popular choice for people who want more climbing power and torque, or rather, just to show off.
I realized that we are the ONLY company that can offer a Dual Drive bike with such a simple setup.
In the future, you will find many Dual Drive bikes that has the same concept as ours, but it's merely impossible for them to connect everything together without using extra cables and controllers.
Apart from being worried about the Dual Drive photos being taken by so many people at the China Cycle 2010, I'd like to take this opportunity to make Dual Drive kits and Complete Dual Drive Bikes available for sale on the website. The price will be made affordable.
Here comes the next question. It's been 7 months since the Magic Pie I was on sale at 160USD. Do you wish to see it happen again with the Magic Pie II and the Dual Drive Bike? Please Vote.
Also, there has been an issue of CopyRight. I met this middle aged American man at the China Cycle 2010. He claimed that GoldenMotor copied his idea of the Dual Drive. He claims that he knows all about GM, and that my name is Philip Yao and I'm 47 years old. :-\ (Look at my profile picture, 47 years old?)
"(Points at me) This is the guy who copied my idea"
"What idea did we copy?"
"The 2 wheel drive idea."
Ok so now I guess he also invented the 4 wheel drive.
My point is simple and clear, jealousy. Haha, get ready for another round of big event. This time round, I shall make things faster and please, just order from the dealers. I'll inform them about any discount events so that you can save on the shipping. However, I just want to warn everyone that the shipping this time round will be slow. But GM always delivers.
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Yao,
I would recommend you to give a torque arm for all front hub motors, including those at the dual drive kits, for Any motor bigger than 250w, like this one:
(http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/TorqArmRev3.jpg)
I vote for the Magic Pie II discount with an option for dual drive (so the discount will be at one of the two motors)
Best regards!
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I think I will steal that torque design
would be easier then trying to roll / sandwich my design to fit the forks
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I wrecked my electric bike because I had no torque arm (and I didn't tighten the wheel nut enough). I made my torque arm by cutting off a 10 mm wrench. Is your version for sale?
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I'm very interested in MPII. And might buy one this summer in London ;)
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Okay, Golden Motor will make the Double Hoseclamp and ship with front MagicPie kit as part of whole package. Thanks for your great idea and sharing with us.
Yao,
I would recommend you to give a torque arm for all front hub motors, including those at the dual drive kits, for Any motor bigger than 250w, like this one:
(http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/TorqArmRev3.jpg)
I vote for the Magic Pie II discount with an option for dual drive (so the discount will be at one of the two motors)
Best regards!
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Thank you Yao!
Please, make it from stainless stell!! ;)
Best regards!
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Yes, the lack of this piece of hardware has put two of my bikes out of commission as it has been cheaper to buy a new bike than to have the front fork on the old bike repaired. While material hardness and durability is critical so is torque arm thickness. Even 6 mm might be too thin.
Also GM Brazil, are your certain this arm is not patented anywhere in the world. (Look in the upper right hand corner of the picture and you will see the web address of a major US ebike competitor.) We don't want someone turning around and biting Yao in the ares. :-[
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Golden Motor is anticipating this electric bike kit competition (The San Francisco Slappity Slapdown ) in San Francisco this week. We supplied event organizer our dual-drive MagicPie Kit with 48V12AH battery pack. Hope we can win a title there!
http://slappityslapdown.com/Slappity_Slapdown/About_The_Slappity.html
As the cargo bike industry experiences record growth, consumer interest in heavy-duty electric conversion kits for those cargo bikes has continued to build.
This growing market wants to know: “Which high performance electric hub-motor kit is best suited for my cargo bike?”
To answer this question, The San Francisco Slappity Slapdown has teamed up with the San Francisco Bicycle Music Festival’s team of experienced, load-hauling roadies to compare the performance of the bike industry’s most powerful electric hub motor conversion kits when installed on the industry’s most popular cargo bike: Xtracycle’s FreeRadical, loaded with 150 lbs of gear, and tested through San Francisco’s legendary terrain - including 22nd St., a 31.5% grade monster that is “one of the steepest navigable streets in the Western Hemisphere.”
Armed with voltmeters, wattmeters, weight scales, stopwatches, bicycle computers, cameras and videocameras, The BMF’s roadies (made to be equally body weighted at 150 lbs, and of equal riding level) - led by Slapdown Producer Gabe Dominguez, and the Slappity Slapdown’s professional photography and videography team, will record the specific performance details of each conversion kit.
Each kit will be rated for its performance in 9 different categories, and individual honors will be awarded to the hub motor kit that performs the best in each.
l Best hill-climber (torque),
l Best hauler on the flats (speed),
l Most efficient (distance),
l Best value,
l Lightest kit,
l Easiest installation,
l Most satisfying user experience,
l Best looks,
l and Most quiet.
The Overall Winner will be the hub motor kit that receives the highest marks on average across all of these fields, with speed, torque, and efficiency scores weighted heaviest. The Overall Winner takes home not only serious bragging rights, but also The Slapdown Crown.
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Go get it tiger :D
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Mankind should always be able to say that it tested every limit. Electric bicycle load, speed and power are the limits being tested now. Goldenmotor is in a position to set the standard and to raise the bar for all other participants in the San Francisco Slappity Slapdown. Our job as enthusiasts is to help Goldenmotor by pointing out weaknesses that might prevent Goldenmotor from getting this job done.
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Make sure you guys get good connecters and not such bad ones I got :D
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Are you guys going to get a pre-order list put together? (I want to get my hands on a Non limited Dual Drive)
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Mankind should always be able to say that it tested every limit. Electric bicycle load, speed and power are the limits being tested now. Goldenmotor is in a position to set the standard and to raise the bar for all other participants in the San Francisco Slappity Slapdown. Our job as enthusiasts is to help Goldenmotor by pointing out weaknesses that might prevent Goldenmotor from getting this job done.
The worst case senariao is ready, steady, beep beep beep. :P
Sorry!
I wish GM the best sincerly.
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Just curious, but after reading through xxxScorpians postings about the extreme potential the single Magic Pie has in terms of torque and speed, shouldn't our focus first be on opening up the possibilities of the single drive Pie? Or are two engines just way more efficient and safe since they would put out safer/lower amounts of torque, lower chances of wheelies, and possibly better efficiency?
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Hi Yao,
My name's Jupiter, and I was just reading some posts about the dual drive Magic Pie II...at one point, you said in the forum, "I'd like to take this opportunity to make Dual Drive kits and Complete Dual Drive Bikes available for sale on the website", are those coming soon? Also, I saw you posted something about the MPII production being delayed, and I saw somebody else say something about 2012...what's the status on the MPII, if you don't mind me asking? Can you give me any updates?
I need to set up a dual drive system on my utility tricycle soon, and I don't know if I should wait for the MPII dual drive kit, or wait and buy two MPII's and wire it myself without the kit, or just go ahead and buy two MPI's and wire it myself without the kit. I've been doing tons of research on the Magic Pie and I can't wait to try it out, but I'd sure like to get the MPII if I could. Any news?
Thanks!
Jupiter
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If you're running two pies at the same time, don't you have to be able to balance them against each other? Is there a way to do that in the programming? No two motors, or wheels for that matter, are exactly alike. Is one motor just being dragged by the other?
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Bob,
If the wheels are the same size, and you are running the motors on the same voltage, there should be no problem at all using the same throttle to control both motors.
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/mpgallery/images/0023.jpg)
The controllers should be pretty closely matched, but it still wouldn't matter if one motor was working slightly harder than the other at light throttle, in fact it may even be advantageous to have just one motor doing all the work under low load conditions.
At full throttle, each motor will still be working 100%, unless the front wheel is in the air! ;D
However something like my D.I.Y. chopper bike, which has significantly different sized wheels, might need a little bit of tweaking to provide an adjustable offset on the throttle output:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/2MPChop.JPG)
The dual drive is intended mainly for improved performance, i.e. faster acceleration and better hill climbing ability. The actual top speed on the level will only be slightly faster than a single motor.
Alan
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Alan is correct I have a dual drive (about 200 miles so far) and it runs fine by simply splitting all the cables to send signals to both pies. I don't know the technical stuff but it works just fine.
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I have been a long time buyer.
I am dying to upgrade to a 45V LiFeP04.
A battery special would be sweet!
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The only thing I would watch for with the dual drive is that it might need a battery and BMS rated to the maximum current a dual drive may need. The 12ah 48v may be a little small for a dual drive setup, however I think it is Vapid reporting that the 48v battery is doing fine with a dual drive..
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The only thing I would watch for with the dual drive is that it might need a battery and BMS rated to the maximum current a dual drive may need. The 12ah 48v may be a little small for a dual drive setup, however I think it is Vapid reporting that the 48v battery is doing fine with a dual drive..
Yes I am working with a 48v
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I am considering turning my JoyEbike into a Dual Pie Drive. I have seen many posts asking how can this be done. Has anyone ever come up with a definative answer? Can I just put them on two batteries and split the wites from the one throttle and one set of brake levers to both controllers? Im thinking all that would have to be split is the throttle signal to both controllers and the brake signal to both controllers. Every thing else should be the same.
Also currently I have 2 batteries wired in paralell running one Pie. Should I wire the batteries seperatly to each motor or can I just paralell in the 2nd wheel to what is already wired?
Gary
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Yes from what I read Gary its easy done.
I havent done it and the one member I know well of Vapid only used a single pack.
But I think with two packs you need to join the black throttle feed wires from the two controllers as you need a common ground. Even just a small wire from one packs ground wire to the other will do the job.
Give it a go and tell me how thing turn out.
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You could join both packs as one but that could cause charging and discharging issues between both packs and on could shut down from over current,
Yeah just a single wire the same size as the throttle wire between the two packs grounds is correct. Makes it tidy and easier if both packs are put together.
Or just join the black throttle wires together leading to the throttle.
Think about the controller with no black wire running to it.
Can a single white wire run a controller? You need the circuit to be grounded.
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Well I did it! It was alot easier then I imagined. I spliced into the white and black from the throttle and added another black female plug with only the white and black in it. Then I spliced into the brake wires and added another blue female plug. With everything plugged in normally from the back wheel, I just plugged in the blue and black plugs from the front wheel and of it goes!! I'll have to add another plug for the cruise tommorow, it was getting to late today. Im not sure if I just stated that in a way that makes sence. Maybe Leslie can do up a diagram for us.
Anyway I took it out for a test drive and HOLY SH*T does it ever fuggin go! Wow! Wow! Wow!
After a few hard takeoffs I kicked out the batteries. plugging them in for a second turned them back on. I then used the USB plug and turned down the regen, I almost wiped out the first time I braked. It was way to strong with two motors. I also cut the amps back to 15 continuous and 20 peak to stop kicking out the batteries. We will see how it performs hauling the trailor ten miles up hill in the morning. I think it will be a blast!
I have to upload a few pictures tomorrow of my Dual Slice of the PIe!
Gary
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Really two packs to one controller should be separated by a diode on each pack to avoid them from discharging onto each other. But this will block regen function
Its not as big an issue iof both packs are of equal size and age.
But the dual setup unless the current path ways a perfectly in balance from both packs one wheel could draw more from one side of you parallel pack than the other making one pack go more flat.
When this occurs the higher charged pack is left unrestricted to another pack unrestricted and the current can exceed the rating of the BMS.
The dual pie on separate packs to separate controllers and no full circuit linked between the two packs is by far a better solution than even two packs parallel on a single controller.
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Gary for what configuration do you want me to do the dual diagram for?
The Pie internal or the external one?
Both?
I feel the internals will be phased out soon so any efforts may be best put towards the external one. but I am willing to do both if you need this.
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EXPERIMENTAL
Use at own risk.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3214;image)
Here is what Ive done so far.
The regulators are switchmode. Depending of the lil transofrmer their maybe isolation happening.
I cant be sure unless someone tests this.
Once we have established isolation between the two packs there is no reason why one can not draw 25 amps from each pack without it shutting down.
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Gary is there a reason why you need your pack full parallel?
See once ground is connected between the packs there is no need for any other connections than the signal splitters to each controller.
One pack peaked over 40 amps as both packs can not respond to the demand the same. This is why it shut down and you had to put the current down is my guess.
It not a healthy config you're doing here if both packs are in parallel like this unrestricted or not diode blocked.
Im not sure if you remove positive the bridge wire between the packs this would work, I have no schematics nor anything go on just some pictures.
I need your interaction here.
As you know I wait for my lovey pies you packed and sent me and even then they are both rear. So this isn't even something I will do myself.
I keep thinking the positive bridge I put on the throttle is even needed. I assumed that the switch mode may be isolated but seeing you used the black and whit wire and it worked my assumptions could be wrong.
You should be able to do 25 amps from each pack no problems with no shut down. A true 2kw bike is the aim of a dual setup or else there isnt any point. More of a loss with the added weight.
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Its not as big an issue iof both packs are of equal size and age.
I have been using a paralell setup for a while with no problems, I guess I could eliminate the problem you are describing by just turing on one battery at a time. But I don't seem to have any problems. I monitor them individully quite often with the CA and never run low on voltage. My round trip to work is 20 miles and 2 48v12ah packs always have lots of power left when I get home.
Gary
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EXPERIMENTAL
Use at own risk.
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3214;image)
Here is what Ive done so far.
The regulators are switchmode. Depending of the lil transofrmer their maybe isolation happening.
I cant be sure unless someone tests this.
Once we have established isolation between the two packs there is no reason why one can not draw 25 amps from each pack without it shutting down.
Thats some diagram, where do you find the time?
So Far all I have done is Paralled the brake to the second motor and the black and white wire from the throttle to the other motor. No other wires are going to the second motor yet. The rest is still theory. Hopefully I'll have more time on the weekend. I still want to get the cruise going. I don't have a pedelac or intend to use one.
Gary
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One thing I would like to add here is that with 2 motors I can now go farther then with one. I cant quite wrap my head around this but when I did my daily commute I would leave home with 54.6 volts and arrive at work with 48-49 volts left. Now with dual pies I arrive with 50-51 volts left. Can anyone attempt to explain this without my head exploding from a details overload?
Gary
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Hi Gary
I agree with you with the extra range, but that was when I had it set on 48v.
I put it down to on a single wheel, up a decent hill it would struggle quite a bit to move and would have been drawing max current.
With the 2 going there is much less stress/current happening and I would say have more range.
Also I noticed on a flat not having to push the bike as hard, both wheels would be drawing less current compared to a single wheel doing all the work.
Can I ask if you have tried setting the wheels to different voltage settings in the software?
You would have noticed a post or 2 about my difference in speed/power from the voltage change in software setting. This is with the cast wheel. I have left mine set to 24v as the power is a massive difference compared to 48v, but on 48v it seems to 'wind' out alot longer to get a better top speed (maybe 5km/h max)
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Can anyone attempt to explain this without my head exploding from a details overload?
I'm prepared to have a go, but perhaps you should have someone on standby ready to clear up the mess, just in case I fail.
Here goes, I'll start with the obvious:
If two motors are sharing the same load, each motor is only doing half the work of a single motor doing all the work.
Here comes the interesting bit:
If you look at a performance curve for these motors, you should notice that after a certain point, the efficiency starts to decrease as the load on the motor is increased.
Because both motors are now running with much less load on them, they are able to run at a greater efficiency level, thereby consuming less combined current than a single motor producing the same amount of power output.
So, if the dual motors are using less battery power to maintain the same speed, you should be able to go even further on the same battery.
Gary, I'm guessing your head is still in one piece!
But if I'm wrong, my deepest condolences go to Gary's family, he was a good man and he will be greatly missed by all of us.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/everyday_cry_230608.GIF)
Alan
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Great Explaination Alan and no crazy numbers and graphs to confuse simple minds like myself! So if I add two 20 inch pies to my trailor I will go even further. A quad Pie bike and trailor! That sounds interesting. Then I would have to get into setting the 20 inch wheels and the 26 inch wheels to match torque and speed. Im sure this is where it would get more difficult.
Anyway Im thinking or ditching the trailor I have now and getting a B.O.B. YAK 28 PLUS with the B.O.B. Bag. This looks like a more efficient way to go as it would narrow the trailor making it easier to go around potholes and manhole covers. Plus cut down on wind resistence. They also make one with a shock. But since I have a hardtail bike anyway I don't think this would be nessesary.
Im sure others make trailors like this but I can't seem to find any. Anyone else know of any?
Gary
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Gary! that Bob model is exactly what I want yay!
I was searching for 1 wheel bike trailer and what not without success
I'll have a look around but I don't think my pocket is as deep as yours... Do you keep these in your inventory? haha
Thanks mate
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Hi Gary
Can I ask if you have tried setting the wheels to different voltage settings in the software?
You would have noticed a post or 2 about my difference in speed/power from the voltage change in software setting. This is with the cast wheel. I have left mine set to 24v as the power is a massive difference compared to 48v, but on 48v it seems to 'wind' out alot longer to get a better top speed (maybe 5km/h max)
Yes I have used the software. I have both wheels at 24volts. The torque is amazing! At 48volts the torque is way to low. I use a Cycle Analyst to protect the batteries. Even though they have build in protection I prefer setting the CA low voltage setting at 41 volts so the BMS cutout is never reached. Also I had to cut the regen on the front wheel to 50% as I almost wiped out the first time I applied the brakes. Regen on 2 wheels at 100% is way to dangerous.
Gary
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I made the mistake of going to a local bike shop "just to have a look" at the B.O.B. Yak Trailors.
Gary
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Looking good Gary, but will a 16" pie fit in it easily?
I'm not suggesting you should try a tripple pie, I'm just wondering if it could be used as a self powered pushing trailer for a non powered bike. ;)
Alan
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Gary! that Bob model is exactly what I want yay!
I was searching for 1 wheel bike trailer and what not without success
I'll have a look around but I don't think my pocket is as deep as yours... Do you keep these in your inventory? haha
You'd need a really deep pocket for one of these:
(http://www.mono-trail.co.uk/trailers/tourmax/images/tourmax-1.jpg) (http://www.mono-trail.co.uk/trailers/tourmax/tourmax-single-wheel-motorcycle-trailer.html)
Total price is £1999 inc VAT!
(I'd expect the bike as well for that price.) ;D
Alan
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Looking good Gary, but will a 16" pie fit in it easily?
I'm not suggesting you should try a tripple pie, I'm just wondering if it could be used as a self powered pushing trailer for a non powered bike. ;)
Alan
Thanks Alan. I love the looks of the entire package. Last night I was having a few "pops" and sat there just looking at it. It's almost as interesting as watching a campfire. ;D
I thought about motorizing the trailer, but really its not necessary as I have allot of power now. Using it as a push trailer may not be a good idea as either as the trailer frame is only rated at 70lbs. Using it to push 4 times that weight might crush the frame like an accordion!
Now I guess the next step is to remount the second battery on the front of my bike again as adding batteries to this trailor doesnt seem as easy. Also I miss the battery on the front as I was quite used to the weight.It gave it a "more like a motorcycle feeling".
Gary
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Gary! that Bob model is exactly what I want yay!
I was searching for 1 wheel bike trailer and what not without success
I'll have a look around but I don't think my pocket is as deep as yours... Do you keep these in your inventory? haha
You'd need a really deep pocket for one of these:
(http://www.mono-trail.co.uk/trailers/tourmax/images/tourmax-1.jpg) (http://www.mono-trail.co.uk/trailers/tourmax/tourmax-single-wheel-motorcycle-trailer.html)
Total price is £1999 inc VAT!
(I'd expect the bike as well for that price.) ;D
Alan
Wow thats some beer cooler, I could go camping for a week with that!
Gary
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Using it as a push trailer may not be a good idea as either as the trailer frame is only rated at 70lbs. Using it to push 4 times that weight might crush the frame like an accordion!
That trailer frame can easily take all the force a pie could ever exert and a lot more besides. You'd have the rear tyre burning some serious rubber well before that frame would start to suffer!
Alan
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See, now you have me thinking. I do have several ebikes and keep them all going for when I have freinds iver and we go for a group ebike ride. A push trailor with a battery would be handy for a friend that shows up with a bike and no motor.
Gary
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Don't forget they would still need to have a throttle (and power break safety switches) fitted to their bike to be able to control the trailer's motor.
Or were you planning to ride along side with a lead coming from your bike? ;D
Alan
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Hahaha! What was I thinking!
Gary
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Could be interesting to have each brake lever for each motor as the brakes itself? For example: If I press the rear brake lever only the rear pie do regen and the same for the front?
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Hi Bruno
This sounds a little dangerous to me. If you were on cruise control and hit one lever one motor would be in regen and the other still pushing. I'm not sure what the result would be if you were on a slipery or uneven surface. Plus it would be very difficult for me to get used to. I have been riding bikes for 40+ years and always use both brakes at the same time. So it would seem this would be of no benifit to me.
Gary
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Hi Gary!
You're right, now makes sense! As you said earlier: What was I thinking :D
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Don't forget they would still need to have a throttle (and power break safety switches) fitted to their bike to be able to control the trailer's motor.
Or were you planning to ride along side with a lead coming from your bike? ;D
Alan
Wouldn't it be possible to mount the throttle and brake in the tow hitch as in caravans?
Two shock absorbers pointing in each direction will held the tow hitch in a neutral position, but when you start moving it will stretch out and then the motor try to get the tow hitch back to its neutral position. The same thing happens when you hit the brake and the tow hitch compress, the brake on the wheel get the same amount of power as the towing hitch.
This of course is not applicable with the MP as it has no variable regen. I'll suggest a 36 V mini motor with a free wheel and a disc brake.
If my bicycle projects hadn't already turned my economy to a disaster I may have tried this myself.
Peter
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Gary is there a reason why you need your pack full parallel?
See once ground is connected between the packs there is no need for any other connections than the signal splitters to each controller.
One pack peaked over 40 amps as both packs can not respond to the demand the same. This is why it shut down and you had to put the current down is my guess.
It not a healthy config you're doing here if both packs are in parallel like this unrestricted or not diode blocked.
Im not sure if you remove positive the bridge wire between the packs this would work, I have no schematics nor anything go on just some pictures.
I need your interaction here.
As you know I wait for my lovey pies you packed and sent me and even then they are both rear. So this isn't even something I will do myself.
I keep thinking the positive bridge I put on the throttle is even needed. I assumed that the switch mode may be isolated but seeing you used the black and whit wire and it worked my assumptions could be wrong.
You should be able to do 25 amps from each pack no problems with no shut down. A true 2kw bike is the aim of a dual setup or else there isnt any point. More of a loss with the added weight.
Hi Leslie
I was thinking about your concerns here on me using my packs in parallel. Since everything else you do seems so impressive, I was wondering why I would doubt your logic. So I started thinking how can I still use my Cycle Analyst if I separate my batteries. Since you place the CA shunt between the battery and the controller how can I still read the data from both batteries at the same time . Can I just use two shunts and parallel the wires after the shunts together to the CA. Then I thought why would I want to group the statistics together. Why not read the stats from each motor/battery combo separately.
Hmmm
I think I came up with a good solution…
Gary
P.S. Shhh don’t tell monkey!
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Ouch watch the ears guys burning hurts ;D Lol I didn't even see this post until now
Gary!! Wow this so is not fair, Christmas around the corner and all I would have thought that big pocket of yours had a CA or two in there for monkey! haha
Just don't tell me you hooked up the speed sensor to both wheels. Ok tell me lol and I also want to know if they read different I'm curious now ;)
And is that a mp3 speaker pouch?
I can't even compete with my Super Pie 5000 (yes I renamed it) still only front wheel drive so I'd be left in your dust and distant sound of bass pumping from your mp3 speakers. I'm eagerly awaiting a mysterious replacement controller, which I'm sure will be a fantastic day fitting it :-\ I'm wondering what effects smaller wheels have with regen etc.
Hey great work, sorry another question but what kind of mounting did you choose? Did you make something up, they look great there mate
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You could go over board and use three, One for both and two for each. Save you some lazy math really.
Yes and the results? I bet you'll love remember all these figures, LOL
Any way my single pie was baking at 49 amps. Thats until it met its doom with the drill bit from hell. I told you fabricating things frustrates me.
I still have the safe have MP bike going.
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Oh no what happened?
What is this drill bit you speak about? And when you say 'baking' is that a good or bad smell?
The suspense is killing me !
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I did some damage to the board..
I need to get a magnifying glass to see it. But Ive knocked out throttle and RX TX tracks.
Ill sleep for a day or two and see if I can repair them.
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Ouch watch the ears guys burning hurts ;D Lol I didn't even see this post until now
Gary!! Wow this so is not fair, Christmas around the corner and all I would have thought that big pocket of yours had a CA or two in there for monkey! haha
I learned along time ago, if you want to get what you desire for Christmas you have to shop for yourself. "From Santa, To Me!"
Just don't tell me you hooked up the speed sensor to both wheels. Ok tell me lol and I also want to know if they read different I'm curious now ;)
I placed the second speed sensor right beside the fiirst. it doesn't reach the back wheel without extending the wire.
And is that a mp3 speaker pouch?
Man you see everything! I have an Iphone 4 and it rides in the pouch blasting tunes as I go.
I can't even compete with my Super Pie 5000 (yes I renamed it) still only front wheel drive so I'd be left in your dust and distant sound of bass pumping from your mp3 speakers. I'm eagerly awaiting a mysterious replacement controller, which I'm sure will be a fantastic day fitting it :-\ I'm wondering what effects smaller wheels have with regen etc.
One wheel drive. What happened?
Hey great work, sorry another question but what kind of mounting did you choose? Did you make something up, they look great there mate
Just the standard mounts. I only spent a few minutes hooking it up so I have a few wires to clean up but its working!
Gary
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quoting the best I see there Gary ;)
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quoting the best I see there Gary ;)
I don't know what happined there, I'm still working on it.
Gary
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quoting the best I see there Gary ;)
I don't know what happined there, I'm still working on it.
Gary
The results, the result, the results?
??
?
?
I mean the results from the CA's.
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One wheel drive. What happened?
Oh how did I not see the rest of that post? I think you edited it while I was reading it haha just saw all of this now :)
You've probably already read the post about how the wheel died. Anyway I contacted Tom and he sent me a replacement controller which went in with some careful 'safety' mods like heatshrink around the phase wires then epoxy over the ground track on the bottom of the board so the phase wires can never short.
I must say the quality of the phase wires were much better (heat resistant casing) then the older pies.
And to my amazement after I replaced the controller it's now so much better than ever! Haha so it was fate me thinks.
Hey Gary do you run 2 batteries with your setup or just 1? I run 1 and pre-replacement it was okay but now I'm leaning to either an additional battery, or building one into my frame that can handle the Monkey power...
And cheers for answering all my questions I didn't know I had so many!
MM<
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I mean the results from the CA's.
Ok, Somehow I managed to find the time. The front pie is now an external controller pie . Factory made with off the shelf controller and no modifications. Both the external and internal controllers are set at default settings at 24v. The only difference is the rear exteranl pie is at 100 percent regen and has 3 led lights running off it and the front external pie regen is at 50 percent. I feel I need to use regen to assist stopping as my rolling weight with me, the bike, the trailor and all my gear clocking in at over 400 pounds. Even with disk brakes front and rear it is difficult to stop without regen. I hope to get a more exact weight in the near future when I get the chance.
After a 34 kilometer (21 mile) ride. I got off the bike pulled out the phone and shot a video with no forethought. So if I'm babbling with no point please forgive me. You can see the video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcYOSIgLSo
Let me know what you think. The most interesting thing I find is the rear int pie burns more amps going full throttle uphill, the front external pie burns more amps going full throttle downhill. On cruise on flat ground they burn about the same.
Gary
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Hey Gary do you run 2 batteries with your setup or just 1? I run 1 and pre-replacement it was okay but now I'm leaning to either an additional battery, or building one into my frame that can handle the Monkey power...
I have two 48v12ah batteries. For a while I had the batteries wired in parralel. I did this so I could insert the shunt for the Cycle Analyst after the batteries and before the motors. Then I could read a combined total of the data. Then after re-reading some posts from Leslie about possible problems I wired each battery seperate to each motor. But I wasn't sure how to get combined data for the Cycle Analyst. where whould I put the shunt? Could I use two shunts then splice the cables together before they reach the CA? Then I thought why not read the data seperatly, That would really give me good comparisons on how each battery and motor is performing. Now as you see I decided yo go with two CA's. Problem now is its twice as hard to keep my eyes on the road reading all this live data!
Gary
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Haha nice :D
Les has some really good points there however, with your setup you wouldn't run into any issues. Maybe in a higher current setup, but with yours - it would be better running in parallel, due to the increase in current output you will get.
Since you charge the batteries separately they will balance out.
I feel that without 'maxing' out each batteries current output, the combined current output will yield greater efficiency from the batteries not pumping out constantly.
Hey maybe when you find some more of that 'spare time' you can make a parallel battery set plug, with a CA shunt built in so that you can do some tests and see if you can get a higher current draw from the 2 batteries in parallel. I have a feeling you may ;)
MM
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I may try that in the near future, but I am very happy with my setup as it is now. It would be an interesting test and a cheap excuse to mount yet another CA :) Here is a photo of my current setup I stopped to take a photo and hug my bike a few times on the way home from work yesterday.
Gary
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It looks very nice, but I think it would look even better with some suitable side covers on the trailer. ;)
Alan
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It looks very nice, but I think it would look even better with some suitable side covers on the trailer. ;)
Alan
Ok I'll bite! With all the photoshop experts in here, lets see what design could spiff up the trailor. Of course it would have to be somewhat realistic for me to be able to pull it off.
Gary
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Maybe a promotional banner on the side like this!
Gary
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gross gary
lol
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This would make the product sell itself.
;D
Is this really you Gary, or are you a Photoshop expert?
Peter
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That's Burt Renolds pose from the 1970's. It is kinda gross I should delete it, I was trying to find something more Cartoonish.
Gary
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No, please don't delete it I was just joking. I think the picture is very funny just because the difference between your cartoonish superman face and Burt's gross body.
Peter
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Hey maybe when you find some more of that 'spare time' you can make a parallel battery set plug, with a CA shunt built in so that you can do some tests and see if you can get a higher current draw from the 2 batteries in parallel. I have a feeling you may ;)
MM
I was thinking about doing this. maybe incorporate a double pole switch to cut it out. Then I could go parralel or seperate. Now I guess I would run the parralel wires before the shunts or after?
Gary
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Hi Gary
Shunts would =
Power source ---> Shunt ----> Wheel Power
So to answer your question would work like this:
Battery 1 ----> Switch ----> Battery 2 ----> Shunt ----> Wheel Power
Currently I am working out what I can best use all the free space inside the GM battery casing. I highly recommend using this before adding extra enclosures and running wires along the bike.
Inside the battery terminal end, I room for the following I'm relocating to neaten up and also increase security:
-6.8Ah 12v lithium battery
-12v motorcycle alarm, inbuilt shock sensor
-60A latching relay to turn the motor battery on/off (connected to the remote alarm for keyless use)
-DC socket to charge the lithium battery
I'm mounting a Turnigy meter on top of the battery with the wires through a hole on top that I will seal.
So as you can see there is a ton of room that surely gets the ideas happening!
I also want to goto a auto supply store or something and buy some gasket rubber sheet to cut out for both the battery end caps. Neither of them are sealed and have seen a couple of people on the forum here with water ingress.
Opening my casing was because I was considering making a fiberglass casing around the battery, and probably to cover my middle triangle part too. But then I thought "Why build a casing for a case??" I decided to seal off the battery really well, and add a few trinkets in there while I was at it.
I'll get some pics happening of inside the battery casing and post a topic on it as I'm sure others will find it useful.
Peace out MM
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Hi Gary
Shunts would =
Power source ---> Shunt ----> Wheel Power
So to answer your question would work like this:
Battery 1 ----> Switch ----> Battery 2 ----> Shunt ----> Wheel Power
Certainly that makes sence and it is how it was wired before the recent change, except for the switch. I'm thinking..
battery1 -> parralel -> shunt CA1- wheel power
||
switch
||
Battery2 -> parralel -> shunt CA2- wheel power
Using a double pole switch in the ON position I imagine both CA would get the same readings, a total of both batteries
In the OFF postiition I would get readings as I do now, a seperate readng on each CA.
Basic wiring scenarios like this I do find easy to understand, but I always like to confirm everything before attempting it. I have fried a few things in the past. :o
Gary
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Currently I am working out what I can best use all the free space inside the GM battery casing. I highly recommend using this before adding extra enclosures and running wires along the bike.
Inside the battery terminal end, I room for the following I'm relocating to neaten up and also increase security:
-6.8Ah 12v lithium battery
-12v motorcycle alarm, inbuilt shock sensor
-60A latching relay to turn the motor battery on/off (connected to the remote alarm for keyless use)
-DC socket to charge the lithium battery
I'm mounting a Turnigy meter on top of the battery with the wires through a hole on top that I will seal.
So as you can see there is a ton of room that surely gets the ideas happening!
I also want to goto a auto supply store or something and buy some gasket rubber sheet to cut out for both the battery end caps. Neither of them are sealed and have seen a couple of people on the forum here with water ingress.
Opening my casing was because I was considering making a fiberglass casing around the battery, and probably to cover my middle triangle part too. But then I thought "Why build a casing for a case??" I decided to seal off the battery really well, and add a few trinkets in there while I was at it.
I'll get some pics happening of inside the battery casing and post a topic on it as I'm sure others will find it useful.
Peace out MM
I Look forward to seeing what you can do in there. I did receive an email from a customer that put the controller in the battery before. I wasn't sure to beleive him or not and never did see any pictures. Be sure to put a link here to the new topic when you start it.
Gary
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Using a double pole switch in the ON position I imagine both CA would get the same readings, a total of both batteries
In the OFF postiition I would get readings as I do now, a seperate readng on each CA.
Gary, As you're using a single throttle, your batteries are probably already joined by the negative terminals, albeit through the thin black throttle wires. If you join the battery negative leads together permanently with some heavy duty cable, you would only need to use a single pole switch on the positive leads to simply connect or isolate the batteries.
With the switch in the ON position each CA should still have different Ah, Amps and Watt readings etc. for each motor, but the voltage readings should be approximately the same on both.
You would need to add the two Ah readings together and then divide this figure by two, to determine what each battery has used.
For example, if after a run the front showed 5Ah used and the rear showed only 3Ah used, then 5+3 = 8, and 8/2 = 4, so 4Ah would have been used from each battery if they had been connected in parallel throughout the entire run.
It might not be a good idea to switch the batteries together if their voltages were significantly different, as the higher voltage pack would instantly deliver a very high current in an attempt to raise the lower voltage pack up to the same voltage level. Depending on how the BMS handles regen, this might cause the lower voltage battery to be subjected to a very fast charge, which could be at a much higher current than the cells are able to safely accept. :o
I hope this makes as much sense to you as it does to me. ;)
Alan
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Nice to see some activity here in the dual pie camp. Some how you will figure out how to SuCk more amps out of your packs. Would be nice to see one of you hit the Magic 100 amp mark. I'm putting bets on the Monkey getting there first. One guy got into the high 70A mark but I think this controller failed.
I think a successful mod should stand the time test at least. Im still hoping my controller survives the Shunt Mod and only time will tell. But I did this through a 25 amp thermal breaker. Works good like this,
I ran my single Pie and internal controller at 50 amps for more than three days to show it can be done in normal ambient temperatures. But I just put it back to do 30 amps max 17 cont. Summer is heading my way fast, and I don't need to be addicted to a 50 MP when it gets hot.
But still the motor never has been close to hot. Maybe when the controllers are about to fail they start heating up everything inside the motor..
Hopefully with my Modded Pie I am going to be lucky. Still haven't tried regen though. ;D
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Gary, As you're using a single throttle, your batteries are probably already joined by the negative terminals, albeit through the thin black throttle wires. If you join the battery negative leads together permanently with some heavy duty cable, you would only need to use a single pole switch on the positive leads to simply connect or isolate the batteries.
Yesterday I picked up another small reel of 10 guage wire and I was thinking the same thing about the switch. All I could find in a single pole on/off switch was 25amp at 12 volts. I didn't think this would be good enough. Today I am going to try an electrical/electronics distributor. I was also thinking about using an electrical breaker for house wiring but I am not sure if an AC breaker is good in a DC circuit.
Gary
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Ahh but where Monkey knows the mod may be different on a smaller wheel because of load bearing, and Gary has the two packs and a large diameter rim to push the hubs to the MAX.
Certainly the dual pies will come up on top of the power torque kings in these forums. If I can do 50 amps easy two modded Pies with dual GM packs will eat the road.
Gary if you have any old broken controllers pull the shunts out of them and solder them into your Pie, this will put your controllers closer to their firmware ratings.
As you can see the Pie are internally limited. I think this can cause some problems and solve some too. The software takes over good enough if you allow 50 amps to the fets.
When looking at battery current supply specs there are two ratings when there is actually four.
There is
Max peak amps
Max continuous amps.
Continuous amps.
When you see 50 amps max on my CA this is Max peak amps. My max continuous amps is closer to 30 amps. This shows there is a 50 amp spike was able to make contact to the battery. Same diff with regen but this spike making back to the battery can be what the doctor ordered for good controller operation. However you don't want to see this spike occur so you set your amps back down, you just need the controller to able to do it.
Before the mod. I noticed I could get 27 amps peak max and 15 max cont. After the Mod I can get 30 amps max and 25 amps max cont. Continuous sits around 15 amps.
It confines the peak and max cont range at nominal settings, brings back the high powered use of 48v mode and LVC with it, and IMO can allow good hardware contact between motor and pack for regen when occasional very small inductive events could erode the sensitive field effect architecture inside the fet..
in essence if you do the shunt mod properly it can be a savior.
The shunt is there to stop people from overbaking their motors on day three. Solves a lot of problems.
The CA was then created to see what a system actually uses.
The mod is there to activate the software and controller to its full potential.
Then one can use the software to stop one from overbaking the motor.
Not everyone gets one of these cycle analyst. I think if you monitor the current supply to 50 amps peak max and around 25 cont. Setting these levels of power usage in the software without a cycle analyst is not advised..
With the right cooling. EG the Magic Beef Cake heat sink mod. The magic controller can do 90 amps peak max and 50 amps max continuous and 30 amps continuous.
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Gary, As you're using a single throttle, your batteries are probably already joined by the negative terminals, albeit through the thin black throttle wires. If you join the battery negative leads together permanently with some heavy duty cable, you would only need to use a single pole switch on the positive leads to simply connect or isolate the batteries.
Yesterday I picked up another small reel of 10 guage wire and I was thinking the same thing about the switch. All I could find in a single pole on/off switch was 25amp at 12 volts. I didn't think this would be good enough. Today I am going to try an electrical/electronics distributor. I was also thinking about using an electrical breaker for house wiring but I am not sure if an AC breaker is good in a DC circuit.
Gary
Are you looking for a good DC switch.
Two goodies are the 60 amp polarized latching relay switch. These use 0 watts to keep closed or open. And you just need a 470 ohm resistor to the coil and a centre on of SPDT switch with reverse the polarity on each switch throw.
If you add a 470 uf bipolar cap over the coil and use a 5 watt 470 ohm resistor it will precharge the controller and take away much of the spark over your contact.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-PCS-12V-coil-polarized-latching-relays-60A-250V-AC-/160460229499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255c2ccb7b (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-PCS-12V-coil-polarized-latching-relays-60A-250V-AC-/160460229499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255c2ccb7b)
And Im using a solid state AC/DC relay switch ATM rated at 40 Amps DC. The package is isolated so you could thermal glue one of these inside the case.
Here is one rated at 60 amps. I got mine using as little as 10ma to switch on.
I have tested regen with it when I limited my bike to 32kph so the results were bound to be very small. As you know Regen scares me ATM.
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(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3612;image)
Gary
This circuit, don't let it send you dizzy, it is very easy. You can glue the resistor and solder the diodes and cap straight onto the relay and switch package. So no PCB required.
And this wont make any heat when it either on or off, as the momentary switch will only allow as much power to it for as long as you hold it on. So 99.99% efficient and heat glue is not out of the equation when putting this stuff together,.
The zeners or TVS will stop any inductive spikes when you are switching. I don't think these relays have a diode in them.
No precharge here as I wanted to keep the picture simple and you need two diodes to carry precharge off the bipolar switching.
Ohh and the SPDT switch only sees about 14v 100ma max with the reverse polarity switch to the coil so no major short occurs to the pack if the DPDT switch goes south.
This circuit is very safe to your gear and extremely light on the power so if you forget to turn you controller off for a week it wont be any of this circuit draining your pack..
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Thanks for the diagram Leslie. It may seem simple but it does seem unnessasary. I imagine I will be just hardwaring the two batteries in parallel with a plug to disconect them from each other. If I determine there is more power in parallel I will probably just leave it that way. I have the materials now so its off to the shed to get it wired up. Hopefully in time for my ride to work today! Not sure if Im taking the bike to work yet as its only 4 degrees celcius and rain or wet snow is forcast. :'(
Gary
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It looks very nice, but I think it would look even better with some suitable side covers on the trailer. ;)
Alan
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3604;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3604;image)
OMG did you add this edited picture or was it there all the time? How could I have missed this, I guess thats what happens when you read the forum on your phone. It looks great! I think I might actually check into doing this over the winter. I do have a metal fabrication shop that does things for me at very reasonable prices. I think I'll take my trailor and this picture over there once the riding season is done. I also just noticed you snuck a Magic Pie in the trailor wheel as well. I don't think Ill go that far, But I do have one in stock that would fit. Hmmm...
Gary
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Ok here are some recent statistics taken from my Cyclyst Analyst after running my battery packs in parralel. This is from the same ride as my previous video but with an incredible 50kph head wind all the way. This certainly did a beating on my remaining voltage after the ride. If there was any increase in power by parraleling the packs it was not really that noticable. What I did notice was my batteries did wear down alot faster.
The first picture shows my power remaining at 41 volts. It was at 48 volts before. The amps used up are at 9.619 and 10.05 and before they were at 8.801 and 8.416. This could be from increased power but most likely the strong headwind did the most damage here.
The second picture shows my power recovered by regen, the left (rear motor) recovered 3.7 percent before and 2 percent this time, no real difference on the right.
The third picture shows the spikes from regen are almost identical. The amps used are at 18.98 + 15.90 totalling 34.88 amps. The previous ride with un-parralel batteries showed them at 19.38 + 15.25 = 34.63 amps. So it is a higher number but not enough to be able to tell the difference when riding.
The forth picture shows really no difference from before. Nothing really worth mentioning.
My findings: I could not really feel any difference in power when paralleling the packs. I did like reading different statistics on battery voltage before. Once in parallel the was no difference shown in the voltage. so I could monitor the amps drawn separately as before but could not monitor the batteries separately.
In conclusion: I will be removing the parallel wires from my batteries. I liked it better when they were separately wired.
Gary
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:( HELP............How I can connect my dual - GM?
Is this good battery for Dual drive?
- http://www.scib.jp/en/index.htm - 6000 Cycle Life
- http://www.altairnano.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=546&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=12076
20000 Cycle Life
- http://www.ioxus.com/hybridcapacitorFAQs.html - 20000 Cycle Life !!!
- http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=151 - 2000 Cycle Life
In this picture 'dual GM' I don't see connection with 1 box of battery. Is this correct?
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:( HELP............How I can connect my dual - GM?
My first suggestion would be to read this thread from the beginning. It has wiring diagrams and conversation pertaining directly to your question.
Gary
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RRR that battery will be okay for dual drive if you buy like 6 of the 24v ones and wear the 12kg+ in a backpack or elsewhere unobtrusive haha what made you think of those??
I would go for 2 x 48v12Ah batteries or 2 x 24v GM batteries wired in series, there are plenty of other options but those seem to nearly have a higher charge rating than discharge.
:)
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It looks very nice, but I think it would look even better with some suitable side covers on the trailer. ;)
Alan
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3604;image) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3604;image)
Hi Alan
Remember suggesting an addition to the trailor?
TaDA!!
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/gm003-1.jpg)
It took a while but I finally got it done!
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/gm004-1.jpg)
Gary
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Gary, that looks great, very smart and professional now, but be warned, the speed cameras now have something to capture! ;D
I was also going to suggest that you run a strip of red LEDs up the rear of the flagpole for nighttime visibility:
(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/LED-S-RE.jpg) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8941)
But then I noticed that the pole was no longer being used.
I'm now waiting to see some pictures of Andrew's wheel cover before I make any further suggestions ;)
Alan
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Yes the Flagpole is no longer around, My dog ate it!
Gary
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Whoohooo!!
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/TRI-PIE.jpg)
Amazing low end torque on the 16 Inch Magic Pie. Add that to two 26 inch wheels and it takes off like a rocket!
Gary
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You bastard.....
:D hehe thats crazy Gary!!!
I was honestly wondering how long you were going to hold out there ;)
You must be in the good books with the wife !
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Nice one Gary.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/6_small.GIF)
(http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2133.0;attach=3604;image)
I also just noticed you snuck a Magic Pie in the trailor wheel as well.
I don't think Ill go that far, but I do have one in stock that would fit. Hmmm...
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist trying it out, I'm just surprised that you've managed to fight the urge for so long! (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/yonofui.GIF)
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/TRI-PIE.jpg)
I wonder how it would perform if each of the motors were tweaked to produce a total of 9.3kW, I am already using 3.1kW with a single wheel and the power is fantastic, I'm now trying to imagine how quick the acceleration would be with 3 times that amount of power, but it would require a battery that was capable of supplying 180Amps! :o
Are you using regen on the trailer too, or have you turned it down completely with the software?
I must admit that it looks very smart with the matching hubs, and I guess that a 3x3 setup will also provide plenty of traction on loose ground and in the snow, but you would probably need to reduce the power on the front wheel to prevent it from spinning too easily on snow and ice. ;)
Alan
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Its a seriously nice neat looking setup !!!
I want to know if you can get the trailor sideways in the snow lol
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TRI-PIE!!! 8) Gary, that bike is off the hook!
Well done mate
Andrew
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Thanks for the compliments, I guess I should have posted in it the gallery but this is where it evolved!
The regen is still on 100 percent on the trailer but I do find it dragging every now and then. For the most part the 50+ pounds of lithium and my work gear hold it down. I will certainly have to turn it down soon for the bad weather as it could skid out to the side when braking. I think thats where Monkey would be yelling Woohoo! ;D
I used a 6 pin trailor plug to connect everything. The power runs up from the batteries to the plug at the back of the carrier and through the shunt of the Cycle Analyst. At that point the positive splits 3 ways to all three motor controllers. Two on the bike one in the trailor by going back through the plug. That takes up the of the 3 of the pins. People might think this is silly but I love it and it serves three purposes. The one simple plug to turn it all on, two sending the power closer to the other motors before routing it back to the trailor motor (Trying to even out the draw) and three being able to route all the power through the Cycle Analyst.
The other three pins are used for throttle , cruise and brake/regen. Everything works fine but I seriously need to upgrade all the battery wires to 10 guage and clean up the rest of the wiring. I also need to insert something in the battery wires to cut down on the spark when I plug in.
Then of course there is the new Large Screen Cycle Analyst the needs the advanced wiring setup. Have you seen these things, I can actually read the screen without my glasses. The fun never ends...
More Pictures to come, I'll post those to my CCM build thread later...
|:0)
Gary
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:) Hello all. Happy 2012, Last June I ordered 2 MPii 48V12ah kits with internal controllers! 1 front & 1 rear ;) I ran the rear solo up untill 2 weeks ago(1700)k 1100 miles mostly on the bike paths and streets in town, it's been quite a learning curve the last 8 months, considering this time last year I didn't know what a controller was! :D it snowed hear on Vancouver Isle, just before Christmas and while riding home from work thru the slush I decided it was time to put the front on!
Doing 27 kph up a hill that I had to pedal up 2 wk's ago is a blast!
The Pie 2 is near perfect in this climate even with all the rain.
On one occation last August at a steep point of a 50 mile ride on the logging roads the rear pie quit for 10 seconds(thanks) I needed the break anyway, I'm not 50 any more. I took Pic's today.
Thank you GM, Gary, and forum all the input has been very helpful, did someone say Infineron and LifePo4 20ah?
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Glad to hear things are going well. Can we see those pictures :)
Gary