Author Topic: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions  (Read 8385 times)

Offline ThunderhorseMaker

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16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« on: February 28, 2012, 08:38:11 AM »

I have some questions about the 16, 20 and 26 inch Magicpies.

Being that they (16 and 20) are cast wheels instead of spoked: are they less prone to warping? Can they take more punishment than a spoked wheel?

The 16 inch wheel looks like it basically a tyre on the motor: would this be even stronger than the 20?

Is it easy to find tubes to fit properly on the 16? I read that the valve hole is a bit weirdly placed.

Assuming a 48v setup, how fast will MP3 versions of the 20 and 16 free-spin?

I have had a couple of non-Magic Pie 26-inch motors in the past, and they have always suffered from loosening spokes and warping of wheels in a matter of three to four months. They just seem to loosen on their own! I'm not doing jumps or tricks!
Can I expect this kind of thing to happen to a spoked 26inch MP3? Or have I just been unlucky with substandard equipment?

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 02:32:08 AM »
I have a 20" Magic Pie 3, and the casting is quite nicely done.  It is much more rigid than a wire spoked wheel would ever be.   As for the performance level, I am still building my chassis, and the power up is at least several weeks away.  What are you going to use the MP3 on?



TTFN,
Dennis

Offline ThunderhorseMaker

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 04:46:36 AM »
At this point I have no idea what frame I will work with.
After having a large tricycle frame twist and break on me, I'm carefully doing my research whilst I save up cash.
Currently thinking about dual suspension downhill that will take 20 inch wheels. A combination that may turn out to not exist!
If only Goldenmotor (or ANYONE else) made 26-inch cast motor wheels!
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 05:28:25 AM by ThunderhorseMaker »

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 05:54:01 AM »
I must admit I have no idea what a "dual suspension downhill"  actually is!   So, are you making bike or a trike or a 4 wheeler?  i'm using my MP3 to power an enclosed three-wheeler that is inspired by the Morgans of the 1950's.  I picked the cast wheel specifically because of the stiffness and resistance to bending, as the trike does not allow the wheel to lean into the turn to keep the load centered under the hub.  So the cornering load will tend to subject the spoked hub to large bending forces. 

One other good thing about the cast wheel is that the wheel acts as a heat sink to remove heat from the motor itself.  The cooler you can keep it, the longer it will last.  In that regard, the 20" will dissipate more heat than the 16", as it has more radiating area. 

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline ThunderhorseMaker

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 06:28:08 AM »
Sorry to confuse.
A "downhill" is just a mountain bike that is usually over-engineered to be strong enough to go down rocky mountain trails. Dual suspension means that it has both rear and front suspension.

I do not intend to take it up or down mountains, but the stronger construction of downhill bikes is what I am after.

I am curious to see/learn about your three-wheeler. Got any pics or a website to point me at?

Offline GM Canada

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 03:00:44 AM »
This bike was labeled a downhill dual suspension bike when I bought it.

Original look:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443324981&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672192&bmUID=1301967914931

After I was done with it:



Gary

Offline ThunderhorseMaker

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 05:08:21 AM »
A very impressive setup!
Now do it again! Except this time do it with cast MP III all around! A dual-suspension frame that can take 16/18/20 inch wheels is my current dream!

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 02:26:47 AM »
I don't seem to be..

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 02:27:55 AM »
able to post a reply with a photo....

Yeah, yeah, stupid newbie.

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 06:29:29 AM »
Success!  ;)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 11:31:32 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Henry Chang

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 01:33:27 PM »
Personally, I think the size of the car wheels and your own are closely related, such as your height in high heavy weight, 16 inches 20-inch wheels is not good for, though with the size of the wheel speed of the bicycle has nothing to do, but in reality cart? Why is fast, because the physics, when the same in half the angular velocity strength, the greater the linear velocity, and linear velocity size is driving speed, so big wheels feel pretty fast is also very cool. But 26 inch wheels when you use time long time will be hard to avoid the spokes, become loose, then you need to be careful and check, and the tool under tight. Relative to character 16 inches of 20 inch don't need this, but they appear very small but also delicate. The most important fact of you to use of what kind of frame.

Offline GM Canada

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 04:07:30 AM »


Wow! now thats impressive, Lets Trade :)

Gary
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 04:12:07 AM by GM Canada »

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 07:39:20 PM »
It really should boil down to what size do you want to use, and what effort are you willing to expend to get that size the way you want. 

In my case, the space at the rear of the 3Eman would only allow a 20" tire, so that made the selection of the 20" cast wheel pretty straightforward.  But esthetics called for a wide (4 inches or so) tire.  The rim width of 1 1/4" really would not work for such a wide tire.  So I bought a 20" bike from Good will for $5, stripped the rims off it and epoxy and steel pinned those rims onto the cast wheel to wind up with a rim width of 3 3/4".  Was it a pain in the neck to get everything straight and true?  Absolutely!  Will it work to meet all my needs?  Absolutely, tho I am admittedly concerned about inner tube stretch tears. 

So What does that have to do with your problem of spokes stretching under load? Just this.  If you want a sturdy 26" wheel powered by a MP3, get rid of the thin spokes.   Here is one way to do it.  Buy a 20" cast MP3, which has an outer diameter of about 16".  Get a 26" rim  of the width you require, which will have an inside diameter of about 19". All you need to do is bridge the roughly 1 1/2 " gap with some bolts, and then you'd have a stiff, strong 26" wheel.    You could drill and tap the required number of holes  with staggered offsets into the casting.  For the sake of argument, lets pick a # 6 coarse thread button head cap screw as a fastener to join the rims.  These have a proof strength of about 650 lbs, so they are more than hefty  enough to do the job.  You could probably get away with #2 screws, but you won't enjoy drilling and taping that many small holes in aluminum. 

Another way would be to epoxy sheet metal straps from rim face to rim face on both sides.  A 1 1/2" strap of .065 aluminum, JB Welded to the rim would have a shear strength of over 1000 lbs per strap.  If you used 9 straps per side you would have a tremendously strong  and rigid wheel assembly.  You could completely join the rims with solid sheet, as well.   I'm confident you can come up with even more methods to join the rims.  Think how pretty the wheel would be if you used black walnut blocks to space them apart! 

Would any of these be easy to do?  No.  Getting the resultant wheel to run true would take a lot of patience and attention to detail at every step.  Could you do any of these, at home, with commonly available tools?  Yes. 

My Dad used to tell me  " stop wishing and start thinking how to do it".  I encourage you to do the same. 

And let me know what you come up with.

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline ThunderhorseMaker

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 01:43:18 AM »
Oh. My. God.
Dennis.
You have been so helpful! I am brimming with ideas! And that trike of yours is drool worthy!
Thankyou so very much!

Offline Morgen 3Eman

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Re: 16, 20 and 26 inch questions
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 10:02:55 PM »
Sorry, I should have typed  24" rim, not 26.  The principles will still be the same, but the dims will be different.

I'm hoping the trike isn't too heavy to ride when I'm done with it.  My goal was to keep the chassis -minus wheels and battery- under 100 lbs, and it is getting really close.  My plan is to flame paint it with a brush ( I'm an artist) and treat it as one of my paintings.  I have to get the whole thing done, tested, and then disassemble it to paint it. 

My site is WWW.Horsepowerportraits.com if you  would like to take a look at my work.

TTFN,
Dennis