Author Topic: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'  (Read 6090 times)

Aavee

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Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« on: June 01, 2010, 07:25:50 PM »
Hi Guys,
another question due limited previous knowledge -
Let's say a bike normally needs one MP in normal drive and it's enough for nice driving in flat areas, perhaps with some hills, too.
But now we have big hills as well...and we need more power.

What if we have one MP in rear and one in front - not linked, meaning there is two batteries and two throttles, one for each hub? We drive normally with rear, let's say, and when you get in trouble with big hills you then use front hub as well..? Like in cars, normally two wheel drive, but in difficult conditions four wheel.

Is all this logical, or is there some reasons why this scenario would not be sensible..?

Thanks for opinions or experiences!


Offline vapid2323

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 07:36:29 AM »
You will need an expert to respond but I think you will have issues with that setup. I think you would be better just running two wheel drive all the time (thats what I am going to do, soon as I can get my hands on a proper drive cable)

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 11:05:28 AM »
No no - there will be no issues, think positive ! :)

Aavee- if you have this preference your idea will work. You really have a few options here: (this won't damage your pie)

1) You could use 2 MP's connected separately, then have say 1 thumb throttle and 1 hand throttle. Using 2 batteries.
This method would be most cumbersome with the wiring and not to mention the battery weight, however will provide better range.

2) Use 2 MP's, then have a single throttle and 1 battery. You can switch MP1 for example; on with the push on/off switch on the throttle connected in-line with the throttle sensor cable, with the remaining wire connected to MP1 throttle socket. (see mr. squiggle pic I attached)

3) Use 2 MP's, same throttle scenario as above with the difference of 2 batteries - connected in parallel giving better range should you wish to use 1 MP for a long trip without the need to operate a switch that you would with option 1.

If it were me (which it soon will be!!) it will be option 2 fo sho. Less weight and having the ability to switch the either motor on or off is definitely a benefit. After all, the motor will only go so fast so operating 2 motors will not give any additional speed only torque. The dual-drive MP owners operating constant 2 wheel drive on a flat road will be a wasting their precious batteries ;)

Hope the above and my mr squiggle pic I surely should apologize for but you get the idea.. Oh yeah, and the second MP will have the 3 beeps until activated ;)

Cheers
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 11:11:52 AM by mmmPie »

Offline Leslie

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 12:25:18 PM »
Hi Guys,
another question due limited previous knowledge -
Let's say a bike normally needs one MP in normal drive and it's enough for nice driving in flat areas, perhaps with some hills, too.
But now we have big hills as well...and we need more power.

What if we have one MP in rear and one in front - not linked, meaning there is two batteries and two throttles, one for each hub? We drive normally with rear, let's say, and when you get in trouble with big hills you then use front hub as well..? Like in cars, normally two wheel drive, but in difficult conditions four wheel.

Is all this logical, or is there some reasons why this scenario would not be sensible..?

Thanks for opinions or experiences!





I would consider using only one throttle and two batteries with two pies..

Why?

The max current draw of two Pies exceeds may exeed BMS limit of a single GM pack under a high load.  End of story.

A thumb throttle and twist throttle could take too much concetration away from the riders road awarness.  The twist throttle and the thumb throttle will be in reverse on the other handle.  This may cause cramps and when slowing fast the rider movement opposes the direction of slowing if the throttle is on the left.

EG. I slow down my weight shifts to front and left hand is twisting the throttle to go faster where the right twist the throttle slower.  

Very confusing to both slow and speed up with different twisting actions on both sides Im getting dizzy thinking about it.  simulate this experience  :o

The American Indian bike has a left hand throttle no one would dream of using a right hand throttle in the same place.


Two with throttles the rider needs to apply both throttles equally to get the right balance on hills.

Your idea is perfect with one throttle as the resistance upon both wheels will balance more evenly on hills than on level grades.

Use the cruise controll button to link Pie 2 to your throttle.  It is a simple on off switch that can pass through the throttle signal to your additional hub.

Do join the two battery ground (black) wires as this is the base point of all current.

No need to join the two red controller throttle wires as volatges may vary slightly creating load between each, after the black battery terminal have been joined current origin is achieved and resistance on the white is fine.  



Two batteries two MP's and one throttle.

One only needs to connect the two black battery pack wires one black throttle controller wire, one red controller throttle wire and one white controller throttle wire to the throttle harness wires and Split the white throttle output wire and feed the through the cruse controller button to the other pie white wire.  at least .6v needs to enter pie 2 to remain on and active.  I am not sure whether the Pie 2 can reinitialise after throttle failure or it needs to be switched off and on and again.

This is complicated here.

One voltage supply, one ground relative to two packs and one throttle signal to two MP hubs. Cruise button disconnects Pie two (front pie). And connect both brake positive brake wires can connect to one ground brake wire when batteries grounds are are connected but regen maybe a little much.

So!

You can make the throttle side brake switch be the default switch so when you reach for the brake you naturally release the throttle, the controller switches off on pie 1 and regen for pie one kicks in.  The other brake switch can be regen for the other pie if its activated,  But his pie should not be active because it will beep three times and induce throttle failure to pie 2.

Oh dear.

Gime a day and I will come up with a circuit and we will get Allan to give us his wisdom here too.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 12:32:34 PM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Aavee

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 05:18:01 PM »


[/quote]
You can make the throttle side brake switch be the default switch so when you reach for the brake you naturally release the throttle, the controller switches off on pie 1 and regen for pie one kicks in.  The other brake switch can be regen for the other pie if its activated,  But his pie should not be active because it will beep three times and induce throttle failure to pie 2.
[/quote]

Thanks for all interesting opinions.
Originally I had something following in mind, and I again underline that my e-knowledge is extremely limited :D

rear: normal MP, normal system. right had normal operating (thumb or twist)
front: another MP, another system, but no cruise, no extras, no 'normal' throttle, but instead something like 'dead-man's-switch', like in old trains: you give the power for the motor only when pressing down a button and continuously keep it pushed down - if you release, no power given, motor stop running.

In other words, extra power from front motor, only when keeping a button pushed down (left hand?) - if you want to use brakes, you naturally automatically stop keeping a button down, when reaching brake handle => no power for the (extra) motor. 

Does this make sense?? 

Offline Leslie

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 01:45:37 AM »
Those buttons are easy to hit by accident and you may find yourself in an accident.  I used it as a bypass to a speed limiter and found myself bumping it often to be on.  


A twist throttle on the right and a thumb thottle on the left ATM seems to me like the best fool proof option setting up for someone with little experience with E-bikes building.

Keep each pie and packs seperate to make charging and discharging easy to work.
 
You could have front hub regen working on the rear brake handle and the rear regen working on the front brake handle as this will give good balance to braking. This is ideal braking setup as the front or rear will not have all the brakes when you pull either brake lever.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 02:07:46 AM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Aavee

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Re: Does it go like this 2? two separate hubs, not 'linked'
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 04:51:10 PM »


Keep each pie and packs seperate to make charging and discharging easy to work.


This was also a good point. Thanks.