GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Chris on July 19, 2007, 04:47:28 PM
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I have just finished installing a front wheel hub motor from Golden Motor, so here are a few thoughts...........
Packaging is pretty poor
Customer support is no existent
Kit is quite good!
I bought two kits with the Nimh 36v 13ah battery packs, they all arrived OK, apart from one of the wheel kits which had the hub with the wires sticking out of the parcel, not a good start. Problem two was the battery chargers, despite telling Philip Yao at Golden Motor I wanted 220v ones for the UK and him replying, and I quote:
“All chargers provided to UK will be 220VAC. We know AC main voltages of all countries or regions. “
I still received USA style 110v chargers with 2 pin plug, first email off to Philip, no reply. After a few days I wanted to charge my batteries so I had to buy a step down transformer.
Fitting the kit was no problem, the wires from the hub motor could do with being a little longer. Once all installed came the moment of truth, connected all the wires, twisted the throttle...Nothing. Tried a different throttle, brake, controller...Nothing. Had a close look at the hub motor were the wires go into to see the black outer was worn through and two/three of the very fine wires had been severed (sensor wires?)
Another email of to Philip, no reply, gave it a couple of days another email, no reply again. Remember I had just spent over $1000 and told him I was looking at importing larger numbers and the first two kits were to have a play with, you would have thought he would at least have replied.
Very frustrated by now, so after reading the post on the broken sensors, I popped open the motor and re-soldered the cable, at least this meant I could add in a little extra cable to allow it to reach the battery on the back box. The kit now worked fine, if a little squeaky, but having a look at the spoke tensions has sorted most of them out. I have put a couple of pics below, and am now onto the second kit, checked that wheel, no problem, still waiting for my reply from Philip though!!
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Second Pic
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Philip responded after a long delay several weeks ago that he was very busy setting up a customer service center in Shanghai and this was the reason why his replies might be delayed. Some of my emails go completely unanswered but Philip did create this forum to help alleviate the problem of customer service by allowing owners to communicate and to help each other. Not sure if the factory location being in the heart of the P.R. of China is responsible for the difference in customer support as you might normally enjoy from a high profit business in the UK versus the level of customer service support you can expect from government operated agencies such as the postal system in either the UK or the US.
In time, hopefully communications, response and service will get better. If not, there is still the low up front price that one can hopefully enjoy as compensation or at least in consolation.
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I' ve waited for more than a month the kit because documents weren' t right and the box had been in the customs for long time. Now I' m going to install it on my bike and hope it will work well, anyway I confirm all: Mr Yao is so busy only after received the payment because I received replies just the day after before paying.
I miss the throttle included in the kit and the 3-in-one ( light, cut off keys and battery charge led all together) doesn' t work.
At least I hope the kit is better than the customer care....
At moment NOT SATISFIED CLIENT!!
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Foggy, If its any help the kit is better than the customer care!
Myelectricbike, I understand the postal service in china may not be up to the Royal Mail of the US postal service, but we are using email here.
If you had paid somebody over $1000 for some kit and when it arrived some of it was broken, and some of it was not what was as ordered, and you sent several emails to the supplier, wouldn't you at least expect a reply? I know I would, whether they are in china or not.
I import goods at work from china by the container load, and I know many of he people out there are very helpful and incredibly willing to sort out any problems you may have, it seems to me as though once Golden Motor has your money thats their job done and you can tot off!
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My reference to the postal service was perhaps misunderstood. What I'm am saying is that operations which are overseen or operated by or subject to government scrutiny, such as a postal systems do not provide, as a rule, the same level of service as a high profit business. It takes high profit to generate the kind of enthusiasm necessary to provide bend-over-backwards customer service and quality of product.
Yet without low profit many would go without any product such that broken product with no service is better than no product at all.
I recall seeing the long lines in the former Soviet Union to purchase meat at low prices but for the wait and low prices meat was on the table every day versus short wait and high profit meat in the USA where meat found its way to the table only once, maybe twice, a week for low income families.
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So, according to you, low profit equals low customer service. ??? I HIGHLY disagree becauseWal-Mart operates on this very principal of low profit per item and yet they have great customer service!! I do acknowlege the distance between China and the final product markets however this does not excuse ignoring emails and customer complaints!!! I do agree setting up this forum was (and still is) a great idea to idea to deal with small problems and make suggestion for product (and packaging) to improve the overall quality of the entire kit!! Low price plus great quality = even more profit and happy repeat customers. :)
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Thank you Chris ;D
Low profit= low quality customer service...I can understand even if I disagree but
1 I didn' t know if my box had been shipped
2 I didn' t know the courier that was delivering my box
3 I didn' t have a shipping code
4 There wasn' t an invoice with the box( how can you expect that the box goes through the customs?)
5 There wasn' t the throttle included with the kit( there' s the twist throttle but I' ve paied extra money for it) and 3-in-one wasn' t well made( not damaged...and anyway the reason would be a bad package): the plexiglass on top is not fixed( imagine if it' s rainy), the glass in front is closed with glue( how can I change the light?) and the key doesn' t work
However now I have ABOUT what I paied for
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I agree with you totally. These items have to be addressed and corrected. I have imported/exported items and you can NOT get anything through customs without proper documentation.(after all, the gov. wants their cut) I hope everything will work out for you, and keep us posted. :)
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No one is stopping either of your from moving to China, opening a factory and exporting kits well below the current bottom price and providing high quality product and bend-over-backwards customer service like Wal-Mart. Sam Walton started with nothing and so can you, if low price and bend-over-backwards customer service is really that important to you. My impression though is that both of you are too lazy and selfish to do such a thing and prefer to belly-ache about someone else rather than to step up to the plate and take a swing yourselves.
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I don't think bend-over-backward customer service is what is expected. The courtesy of a response when inquiries or problems arise is a common threshold that I don't think is asking too much. If that level of service isn't available it can scare off a significant amount of potential business. Noone on these boards is going to open up a factory in China to demonstrate such, but a plethora of folks interested in a goldenmotor kit may think twice and either 1) not buy one at all, or 2) move on to a competitor due to the lack of communication. If you look at the e-bay side of things, folks won't bother bidding on a seller who picks up a reputation for lack of communication and substandard packaging. The same holds true even amongst bottom feeder level buyers who are looking for a good deal. Heck, if goldenmotor had to raise prices 10 or 15% to be able to provide a baseline level of communication (think automated shipping notices) and the right level of protective packaging, they will avoid a bad reputation and will still be ahead of the game on the price curve.
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One thing Sam Walton did right, He LISTENED to his customers and employees when they made suggestions to improve quality and service. Mr. Yao can be the next Sam Walton If he listens!!!!!! I commend Phillip for trying to start a company and this forum. I also appreciate your technical help Myelectricbike, but please do not take offense when customers have gripes about packaging and/or have legitimate concerns about the product. These "problems" can be resolve to make to the product even better. Best wishes to Phillip Yao and Myelectricbike and no hard feelings to anyone. :)
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What neither of you are realizing is that Golden's primary market is in China and not in the US or Canada, or anywhere else in the world.
The level of service that is required to get a kit through customs for instance in Brazil is unreal. Golden is already bending-over-backwards to sell kits internationally. You forget the kits weigh over 20 lbs each, unlike ladies underwear that Wal-Mart sells and which enjoy far greater markup. The cost of shipping a kit from the factory to Australia, for instance, is over $150. Who do you think has to eat the cost of shipping anywhere when the shipment is rejected and the customer has paid by PayPal?
With these problems in mind is a wonder that Golden even considers sales outside of its primary market in China and that other companies within China consider doing business with the rest of the world as well. What you are demanding, you are unwilling to provide. Keep on being selfish and making selfish demands and as a result you may end up with no product until the price you are asked to pay is higher than anyone can afford - the typical scenario for products now manufactured in the USA. What you are forgetting is that China has sufficient (and less costly and less demanding) primary market of its own.
But then maybe that is your ulterior goal, to drive Golden's prices up above the prices of Crystalyte and other manufacturers by asking Golden to please your demands.
However since you seem willing to pay higher prices and have used Wal-Mart customer service and "low" prices for reference I offer this idea since Wal-Mart already sell ebikes online: Golden no longer sells directly to you but sells to Wal-Mart instead. Then you pay Wal-Mart whatever "low" price Wal-Mart demands and get the benefit of Wal-Mart's customer service.
Let's take a poll. (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=65.0)
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I think you are going a little over the top with your comments now myelectricbike. I don’t think any of us are asking for bend over backwards customer support at the expense of price. Perhaps you think that the $1000+ I have spent on the Golden Motor Kits is cheap, and if they don’t work, or have been sent the wrong bits then tough luck get on with it, but I think just a reply to one of several emails would not tax anybody too much, even if was just to say sorry very busy at the moment, but we will get back to you.
To get my kits sent to the UK via TNT cost $320. If a shipment is rejected it is, in my experience, usually due to the sender not putting on the correct details on the shipping/customs documents. My kits arrived OK in good time, apart from the damage mentioned. Golden Motor fill in the forms, pack the goods, call TNT or their agent who then ship them to me. TNT then bill me for import duty/VAT etc. Golden motor doesn’t have to do any of this.
I have no contact/experience/knowledge of Crystalyte, so your comments of ‘us’ trying to force up golden motors prices is a little OTT and very unfair.
I have read all through this forum and it seems to me if anybody has the slightest bit of criticism about Golden Motor, whether it is quality, service, time, prices etc you jump down their throats ranting how we should just be glad to have the wheels, working or not, or go on about how we must all be conspiring to discredit Golden Motor/push up prices etc.
Please try and keep your toys in your pram a little more. People post on here to share their views, good and bad, with others. At the moment anybody reading a lot of your posts with a view to buying a kit would look else where.
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Because this forum is for owners rather than for prospective buyers I'm trying to be straight with you here, especially since others with the interest of promoting other manufacturer's motors may not be straight with you outside this forum.
For one thing people in China move at a far slower pace than do people in the US or in the UK. When we order something we want it yesterday.
While ebikes are important to some they may not be considered an emergency item except by a few slaves of fad and fashion in the US or UK.
The Chinese are known for their patients while Americans and Britains are known for their haste, although China is trying as best it can to accomodate the faster pace.
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So, according to you, low profit equals low customer service. ??? I HIGHLY disagree becauseWal-Mart operates on this very principal of low profit per item and yet they have great customer service!! I do acknowlege the distance between China and the final product markets however this does not excuse ignoring emails and customer complaints!!! I do agree setting up this forum was (and still is) a great idea to idea to deal with small problems and make suggestion for product (and packaging) to improve the overall quality of the entire kit!! Low price plus great quality = even more profit and happy repeat customers. :)
Walmart is low profit margin but operates on high volume. Here you are making miniscule orders to a company that usually deals with huge orders. There is little benefit for them to have support for you, labour costs are expensive. By directly dealing with you they are already bending over for you.
Let alone the fact they are a supplier, not a retailer like walmart where customer service is alot more critical.
I had to make this reply as I want more chinese factories to directly deal with customers and cut the middleman. I just want the product. This demand for technical support discourages them from doing so.
If you want customer service/warranty/etc; buy from the middleman, thats what they are there for.
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Tech support is non-existent at Wal-Mart and you know it. Wal-Mart stopped selling No-More_Flats because it took the guy in the bike department an hour to put one on or 30 minutes with damage to the tube, tire and to the rim, whereas a person who knows how can do in 5 minutes.
Most retail stores will provide minimal tech support but if you really need more than that Wal-Mart, Home Depot and Radio Shack as examples simply offer a refund or exchanges as their primary method of customer service. Just as with No-More-Flats now sold by Bell Wal-Mart bike guys do not have a clue that you need a steel frame for a motor and not an alloy one.
I therefore prefer spending the time to do the research so I can do the job right and be able to pay less for the product although more for shipping but in the end it depends on how everything adds up rather than a fixed rule. Other wise I would loose money in some cases by not buying retail and getting the clerk to help me find the right product versus losing money by ordering the wrong product knowing there is no way the factory can or will be able to handle a return or exchange.
Bottom line: options are great if they are constantly tested. Otherwise there is no more than a 50/50 you will save time or money whatever option you follow.
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Both of you are wrong..
China well the large cities are much faster paced than us. I suggest you spend 6 months searching for products there then explain their economy and how they work.
1. The Chinese do things much like Mexico there is a guy up top padding his pockets and grunts under him/her usually living in the factory compound making a dollar or two a day.
2. If you get any customer service from them consider yourself lucky. They do not feel bad about sending out bad or non working parts/pieces as long as they get paid. It is almost like they have no forethought of the future. Its the same service there for the locals or who ever buys kits etc, Unless you are holding money over their head like a big account.
3. They live totally different than us and can care less for the most part on how we do business.
4. They have an odd sense of business , BUT it works in their culture. its always cheaper, cheaper cheaper.
5. Americans (for the most part) Will pay almost anything for high quality.
6. If you want something on the cheap and know enough about the product to fix it if it is shipped bad then by all means buy from China.
7. If you need customer support and handholding then buy bionx for $1200
We usually don't run across quality problems in our society a product is a product. Apple or PC.
In china there are 4 qualities for everything.
food has a #1, #2, #3, and a #4 quality.
all products are the same they all have different qualities. Not all products are created equal.
China is completely different from all of Asia. The Chinese do business different from western countries.
The number one thing to remember is that Chinese can care less about the rest of the Western World, they have no desire to be like us and they don't want to nor do they have to conform to the way we do business.
Philip does very very well for himself and has no headaches with customer support, demanding customers, stupid customers.
He manufatures a good middle end e-bike kit that costs him around $45-$50 to produce and thats the way he likes it, don't waste your time trying to change China to the US they are their own country.
People that havent traveled think that every country looks at us the way we do as the #1 country in the world and everyone should follow our lead. They laugh at this and continue to do business the way that they have for hundreds of years.
Because we are American or Canadian or whatever does not mean we are special or that they are. But believe it or not they do not think as we do, they do not do business as we do and will not.
If I had $300k to spare for a campaign I could put every single Californian on an e-bike, I can truely see this. But working directly with the Chinese is not an easy task. I can buy a container load from Philip then the next day he wants to charge me full price for a pack of NIMH batteries lol..
You can spend all day telling them why thats dumb but they will never understand, they will never get it and they can care less.
Now.....
If someone here was to start a small campaign... TV, You Tube, create a huge Buzz.. Then went to Philip with a large order to be created to YOUR specifications you would get a flawless top quality product.
Then they would fill your order to your specifications then go right back to making middle end products.
Its kind of hard to explain but say for instance you were building a house from the ground up, I personally would buy middle end to high end all the way through. But the chinese buy low low end for everything then for the finishes they would go mid to low and grind them on their prices lol..
Its just a different culture, they calculate everything, screws, wire, even damn rusty spring that hangs out of the hub lol.
I am ranting lol because I have been banging my head against the wall for years dealing with the chinese.
Good luck!
www.ampedbikes.com
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Interesting comment especially with the lead paint on the Mattel toys thing happening right now. The factory manager commits suicide and his friend who sold him the paint has disappeared with the profits. Definitely a different culture.
I do like how the one guy who tainted the tooth paste was dealt with. I think it took the government about a week to execute him. I just wonder if the fellow they executed was really the one who was responsible.
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Geezzz... Sounds like Dante's Inferno.
Here are the comments my last customer made after I failed to get a quote for him from the factory...
I am so sorry for the lack of interest of the manufacturer... I have decided
to buy a Cyclone chain
kit.
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/
It is more expensive than Golden Motor but since it is chain driven it may
be upgraded in
the future (when large capacity batteries are cheaper) And I can install it
in a bike with disk brakes, I
can change gears... And they offer 5-15 days lead time.
Thanks for your time.
followed by...
I have some experience with chinese businessmen (in the PRC and outside) and
have experienced all
the flavours of conducting business with chinese people (from inviting me to
their company owned hotel to shouting at me because they were busy...)
The people from Cyclone just answered an e-mail I sent them in minutes ...
(and the time there now is...well... a bit late in the evening :-) )
When I was in the yarn business I met a chinese man working for an indian
company that was
available almost 24/7 (his secretary once told me that he even slept in the
office!!)
I am really sorry for you and your clients, I hope the Golden Motor people
grow interest in the rest of the world.
Luck!!!
So its not as if I have not been there but I think Philip is trying.