Author Topic: MagicPie-4  (Read 17204 times)

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2014, 08:51:45 AM »
How is it possible to use External Controller with MP3? I mean how should it be connected while the build in Controller in place? Should I take the build in controller out? What about rains then? While using an External Controller, should I put some cover in place of the build in controller?

Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,495
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 04:48:11 PM »
I am curious. Has anyone tried the new Magic Pie Vector yet? There is also a Smart Pie version out now.

I haven't yet tried the Magic Pie, but I have tried a 700C front Smart Pie with the new vector controller:





The throttle response is amazing, but I had to reduce the acceleration setting as I kept spinning the front wheel while trying to pull away on loose surfaces because it was a bit too quick to respond on the 100% setting.
The other most obvious difference is the distinct lack of noise coming from the motor, I can now ride past pedestrians on pathways without them being aware of any motor noise.

I went for a bike ride with my wife (her bike doesn't have a motor) and she didn't even realise I had been using my motor until I told her, even though I was riding along right next to her for most of the ride.

I am still looking forward to trying a rear Magic Pie 5 with the vector controller:



I am not expecting the motor noise to be as silent as the Smart Pie because some motor noise can still be heard coming from the Magic Pies even when riding without a battery. ;)

As for SmartPie, is it less powerful, isn't it?

Yes, the Smart Pie is less powerful than the Magic Pie, but it freewheels more easily and the top speed is pretty much the same on the level, but it slows down more noticeably on hills.

How is it possible to use External Controller with MP3? I mean how should it be connected while the build in Controller in place? Should I take the build in controller out? What about rains then? While using an External Controller, should I put some cover in place of the build in controller?

You would need to make a cover plate from 2mm aluminium, perspex, or possibly even plywood. The original controller can be used as a template (and also as a drilling guide to ensure all the holes are drilled in the right place).

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 11:59:17 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 06:24:09 PM »

Quote
I am still looking forward to trying a rear Magic Pie 5 with the vector controller
Look forward to hearing your impressions!

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 06:30:05 PM »
So, finally is the new Vector Controller better than Lyen or Kelly Controllers?

Offline Pwd

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 12:35:25 AM »
My suspicion is that it is too early to tell just yet, but Alan's feedback on his Smart Pie (Vector) sure does sound promising. Just from speculation, it sounds like GM have really pulled up their socks. It will be on my list if I have to replace my Magic Pie v2.

Offline ToddMurray

  • Confirmed
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 03:37:22 AM »
I am curious. Has anyone tried the new Magic Pie Vector yet? There is also a Smart Pie version out now.

Yes. Have one running for a day now on 48V Life 10AMP battery. I'm having some weird issue with the controller not powering the motor after a full battery charge.
I've reported the issue to goldenmotor.ca, and wait for resolution. I can't get the USB application to check my MP Vector settings. I've with someone would shed some light on if there is a supported app for the vector, as I need to limit my speed to 32KM.

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 06:29:29 AM »
Quote
Have one running for a day now on 48V Life 10AMP battery. I'm having some weird issue with the controller not powering the motor after a full battery charge.
Have you measured the battery voltage? Has it higher than 60V? How many cells do you have on your LiFe battery? 4*16=64>60V

Quote
I need to limit my speed to 32KM
What's the maximum of MP3 on the flat surface?

Offline User1

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2014, 04:31:00 PM »
Hey mate.

As a totally pleased MP III owner and user, totally as in 101%, and considering that a 4th generation of pies must bring something new, something better, what new technology can a 4th gen of pies bring to the market? Latest MP III versions are just awesome, has the power, has the speed, and oh boy it has the torque! So, could the best be made any better? Sorry, I just had to ask ;)
I don't know if it's technically possible, but it would be great if GM produced a version with gears and brakes enclosed inside the rear hub, like it's done in the bikes almost everyone uses in the Netherlands – it requires much less maintenance and is weatherproof. It would be possible then to fully enclose the chain, meaning that no cleaning or oiling would be required. I know that it's possible to use a motor in the front wheel and have whatever gears or brakes you want in the rear wheel, but imagine if something went wrong with the motor (for example, it suddenly blocked or started to rotate backwards) when you ride downhill very fast! I think that motors in the rear wheel are much safer.

But IMO the biggest problem is not with the motor, but with the battery. I was told that I can't store my GM LiPOFe4 battery in temperatures below 0 deg. C, so in winter I must either ride without the battery or use another bike when I need to park outside! (or take the battery with me to the shop, for example, which would be far from practical). The solution to this is simple really – just attach something to the battery which could heat it when it's too cold (using the energy from the battery). E-bike conversion kits made in Canada should make it possible to park the bike outside when it's very cold, shouldn't they? :)

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 05:38:57 PM »
So, that's the final verdict?

Should the new Vector Controller be better than Lyen's or Kelly's made Controllers?

As for the price they should be the same. But what's about performance?

Offline Morgen 3Eman

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 620
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 02:45:32 AM »
Hi Just

So here is my opinion, and it is just an opinion.   

For background, I bought an MP3 a long while back, and had two internal controllers fail with very few hours.   My third controller was a Lyen.  It has been running well ever since.   

It was a pain in the neck to implement the Lyen, simply because it was external to the hub motor.  It is not a pretty sight, as the sense and phase winding  connections are now outside the hub, and I had to find a spot to locate the Lyen box.   Instead of  having  a prebuilt wiring loom, I had to find a good place to locate the Lyen, route the wires to and from the swing arm, protect the cables and connectors from the weather, physical damage.  None of it was terribly difficult, it was just a pain in the neck.   Once installed, the top speed was the same, the acceleration was similar, the hill climbing ability was similar.  The only performance difference was that I had a reliable machine to ride.

And I complained loudly about the GM decisions that put underrated components on the MP3 controller.    The design  was brilliant, the assembly quality was fair to middling at best.  It looked to me that components were selected on the basis of cost, not suitability.

So what?   

The current assembly quality is visibly better in photographs, and the complaints about controller failure are nearly non existent with new products.  I'm told the component ratings have been increased to provide a greater safety factor.  They now have conformal coating to keep any water away from the electronics.   All these are good changes that address my previous complaints about the controllers electronics.
 
The change from square wave to sine wave drive to the motor windings is a significant positive for reliability..  The reason we can hear the MP3 accelerate with a square wave drive is because the motor windings are vibrating from being hammered by the full current pulses.   You should not confuse peak pulse current with average current.  With normal digital controllers, each pulse is long enough to drive the winding to full current, say 50 Amps.  By limiting the ratio of pulse on to pulse off the average current can easily be limited to some value, but it does not effect the current through the windings during each pulse, so the average of all those 50 Amps pulses is limited to 25 Amps average.  With the sine wave controller, the pulse width  can be made so short as to not allow the current to reach full value. It would be possible to limit the current to a few milliamps during an individual pulse.  The pulse can also be made wide enough to allow the full 50 Amps of current.  So the windings are treated more gently by the magnetic fields.  And that leads to greater reliability.  But the average current can be the same, so the total power can be the same. 

So, if I were in the market for another system, I would prefer an integrated sine wave driven motor/driver package over a square wave external driver-motor system.  The probability is that the reliability would be better. 

Of course with my recent luck, I'd crash while doing a burnout and destroy the entire trike.....

Just an opinion.

TTFN,
Dennis

Offline Scooter

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2014, 05:18:14 AM »
I just want to thank Gary for being so straightforward about the risk of running it on a "48" volt battery.   Maybe GM China should be told about it....


TTFN,
Dennis

What is the risk???? I bought one to use with my 48v/20ah... Is this not a good idea?????? Gary never included any sort of "warning" with my order??
Staying young thru our toys.

Offline Barbados

  • Confirmed
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2014, 05:51:55 AM »

@alan
what is the speed of the Smart Pie in 700C with pedaling/without at which voltage?
i think that one will be my next ride :-)

Offline GM Canada

  • Super Gary
  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,544
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2014, 12:03:05 PM »
I just want to thank Gary for being so straightforward about the risk of running it on a "48" volt battery.   Maybe GM China should be told about it....


TTFN,
Dennis

What is the risk???? I bought one to use with my 48v/20ah... Is this not a good idea?????? Gary never included any sort of "warning" with my order??

I would also like to hear what the risk is and where did I state this?

Gary

Offline Just

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2014, 12:35:54 PM »
So, what's the maximum speed with the new Vector Controller (48V battery)?

BTW, how much the speed might be increased with 60V battery (external controller)?

Offline Morgen 3Eman

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 620
Re: MagicPie-4
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2014, 04:26:37 PM »
Hi Folks,

Please go back and read the 11th entry in this thread. 

TTFN,
Dennis