Author Topic: New Project  (Read 62917 times)

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: New Project
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2011, 10:48:19 PM »
What, monkey, is the advantage of the smaller wheel racer In your opinion ( apart from BMX handlebars :) )

Man I hope you make that thing number 4 ebike in your garage ;) It's a little hard to explain in writing, you seriously just have to try a smaller wheel if you have alot of hills in your area.

I'll give you some dot point breakdowns of what I think they are good for.

1. Hills - I challenge anyone with dual drive/whatever with larger diameter wheels uphill. Find me lol
Also - complete dead start on hills is no worries.
2. Stealth. Riding a smaller bike people just think I'm riding a BMX (or a big one in my case) people see BMX's going fast all the time usually with kids without helmets. I've never been stopped by police on this bike.
3. Control. Using a smaller frame you can pop wheelies over gutters easy, jump with control and the sheer agility of the smaller wheel moving around is far easier than with a 24-26-28" MTB
4. Stopping power - 20" wheels using regen really stop fast!! At top speed (need to test this) but I would expect as little as a few metres before I'm completely stopped using front disc brake and regen only.
5. Pedalling!!! You can do it these smaller wheels, you will pedal far faster uphill using direct drive and small wheel size than any larger wheel diameter ebike. Sure its no freewheel experience, I'll post this video I found of me pedalling dual drive so you can understand a bit better. It's like pedalling a high gear BMX (a bit hard to start, but feels okay once you are going)

So I can only really fault them with the top speed, and some difficulties depending on the bike frame you have. The one you have Ginge, sounds like a 24" BMX frame (the larger, pro type - still have 20" wheels) and these are quite comfortable to ride as an adult.

The handlebars (BMX Type) do make a serious difference to the ride, as being an ebike - the rider does not have a forward riding position (unless you are pedalling like mad), usually you are sitting on like a seat so the seating position for a rider on the BMX handlebars feels so much better on an ebike.

Should this topic not be surrounding ebike use, then it would be a COMPLETE different story with many benefits of larger diameter wheels (using gearing etc.)

If you want something that eats hills, fast acceleration and easy to manoeuvre then go for smaller wheels. If you can fit 16" wheels without too much difficulty on that frame you have, and are happy with about 30-35kmh top speed - then I would go for that!

If I managed to make the 16" work on the frames I had on hand then I would have stuck with it. I only went to 20" for ground clearance and frame size issues. The 16" when I had it running was VERY easy to pedal!!! Thinking back, I don't think I worried too much about the drag.

But yeah, long story short you gotta try it if you have hills, perhaps want to pedal a little, and don't mind about the top speed then I wouldn't look further.

Oh and tyres!!!! Seriously big range and with the GM cast rims you can opt for motorcycle tyres or scooter racing tyres like I did. Nearly forgot to mention tyres LOL they are tops

So 2 downsides...

1. Customising the bike to suit rider and accomodate wheel size
2. Top speed






« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 04:30:35 PM by MonkeyMagic »

Offline o00scorpion00o

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Re: New Project
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2011, 02:37:40 PM »
Hi Ginge,

Glad you got it together, I think you should put the 40 amp infineon on that motor, I think you need more phase current, some controllers heat the crap out of the phase wires!

You should get the program cable and a 12 fet infineon cell-man sells, my phase wires barely get warm on the straight and fairly warm on long steep hills @ 1800 watts!

What voltage are you running by the way? 28 mph is good on level ground with the slower wind!


Monkey,

Yeah I would like to build a bike with 2 macs in a 16" wheel, but someday maybe!

The mac 320 rpm though you have to ride it someday to get the experience, the torque is amazing and the acceleration, beats the pie any day!  ;D

I can't believe you think 2 pies is easy enough pedal, you must be drinking super Monkey juice!  ;D

I could hardly pedal 1 pie!

I would still love a spin on your dual pies though, that's going to be a super ride when you are finished.


Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: New Project
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2011, 01:00:19 PM »
Yo Mark, I have a 24" 1000W 60v ebike that has a motor similar/same size as MP [bit smaller] and its a bitch to pedal on its own. Turning the smaller wheel was easy, but I don't think I would have been going much faster than around 15-20kmh at max so its not exactly brisk! I would imagine a 26"+ wheel would not be fun to pedal at all with a MP

Seemed pointless pedalling a motor on its own though. I use cruise at a minimum pedal level and match that just to get a bit of exercise.... Thats rare though haha its usually WOT and a sore thumb at the end of the ride. That reminds me, I epoxied a silicon rubber pad on my thumb throttle so its more comfortable now lol

It's a long weekend here in Australia and mine has been a messy one haha so not much time spent on the bike I'll get on to it tomorrow. HANGING to get it back on the road and finished, I need to hire some casual staff to help solder and prepare wires etc lol

Hey can you guys tell me if the shaft is customizable on the MAC motors??

I'm trying to find more info and prices on this mob
http://www.magnomatics.com/technology/pseudo-direct-drive.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAELukfr2oY

They certainly have some interesting products...I'm guessing they aren't cheap though

Hey Ginge what price did you pay in USD for your metal gear MAC to UK if you don't mind me asking?

MM

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2011, 01:58:24 PM »
Coming from cell man, I guess you are about $165 plus delivery , motor only no wheel, plus spare gears... ( spare set is $25, or a single metal gear is $25
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: New Project
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2011, 03:30:51 PM »
Coming from cell man, I guess you are about $165 plus delivery , motor only no wheel, plus spare gears... ( spare set is $25, or a single metal gear is $25

Cool thanks mate. Hey do you know if you can customise the shaft?

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2011, 04:05:14 PM »
not sure, but I do know that shaft and keylog are quite loose in the general design, should be easy to fabricate a newer one...
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2011, 07:31:49 PM »
hey mark....fired up my 40A........melted too much plastic on the 6 fet

smooth as butter....alll ready and tuned up for the commute tomorrow :0....i am running old gears though, still I got a brand new set coming from cell_man with the motor, so I may use this motor and gears to test out the steel one before the change :)

Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline o00scorpion00o

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Re: New Project
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2011, 11:23:29 AM »
Hi Guys,

Monkey I get what you are saying, but for Me I want a bicycle to be as much like a bicycle as possible, I like to put in the effort! And the Pies are fine for commuter bikes or for those not bothered!

You should try out the geared mac some day, it will put a smile on your face!  ;D


Ginge, did you say 40 amps on the little 6fet infineon? did you mod it?

What about your infineon you were using on the pie?

I got my LiPo today, Did I say I cancelled the order from Hobby King?

I ordered from Storm RC on E-bay form matt in the U.K on Friday, so that was very quick!

There is a contact for you Ginge if you are looking for LiPo!

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2011, 12:14:03 PM »
aye, 25 amp cont that little monster can do, gets hot though...no modding

Got the pie infineon on there today, 1880 Watts peak....25 miles, top speed 29.6, warm but nothot...same efficiency per mile as the pie, but average speed was about 2 MPH faster, at about 24...

Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline o00scorpion00o

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Re: New Project
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2011, 08:46:07 PM »
I'm just thinking Ginge that your infineon might not be set to the same settings as mine form cell-man!

So it will be interesting to see how yours drives the 8T!

You have the program cable don't you?

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2011, 09:52:54 PM »
yup, got the programming cable

set the 40A to
25A cont
65A peak

got stats on the way home, 8AH for 26 mile journey ( but I did actually cycle a lot, so not fair really )
top speed 28MPH ( wasnt gunning it)

One thing for sure, those phase wires need the alphawire luvin :).....although I hear that terminating just outside the hub with alphawire can reap massive improvement, but you know me ;)

Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline o00scorpion00o

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Re: New Project
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2011, 07:14:16 PM »
Ginge, I can' understand how your phase wires are heating up so much? Is it the E-bikes.ca controller cause some people report problems with them driving geared motors!

My phase wires on the 320 rpm got very warm on a long steep climb but not roasting at all, you see that's why I'm thinking that that motor is better overall for hill climbing because it spins faster and motors are more efficient at faster rpm where the slow wind doesn't allow it to get into the efficiency zone.

And my controller according to the screen shot cell-man sent me is set at 45 amp battery and 110 amp phase!

It will be interesting to see your results with the faster motor! , by the way what voltage and battery setup are you using again?

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2011, 07:27:14 PM »
aye, hold fire on the winding :), the new motor arrived today (black by the way, compared with the silver you and I both have), as well as my spare set of composite...

Comparing the windings, it appears that there may be 2 phases wrapped around each stator on the 8T, meaning im not sure what winding my original silver motor is...winding is 12 count, meaning could be either 12 or 6...but silver motor defo has the original nylon gears, however the black is confirmed with the grey compound gears..

Ive asked supplier for confirmation on what winding it is supposed to be, but as the 12T is supposed to hit 25MPH only on 48, hitting 30+ don't make sense :)

Now that I have the spare gears, I may fit the hardened steel gears, and re-wire for alphawire and see where I get too...

As for the wiring, both motors have wiring that is more suited to the up to 1000W range...as per the external wiring on the GM controllers, but they cannot efficiently carry 2000W plus current in to the hub, so mod is required :)


not sure what looks stealthier, black or grey :), but checked today,  can switch the stator out in about 10 mins, but ill wait till the weekend for that :)

running 13S 8P 188650 2.6A cells...
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline o00scorpion00o

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Re: New Project
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2011, 07:43:53 PM »
Ginge, didn't you get the 40 amp infinion from ebikes.ca?

I wonder if cell-man's controller would work better for you?

Seriously my phase wires don't heat that much, maybe it will be different with the new stator.

Black or silver doesn't really matter to me, I like them both!

Offline DirtyGinge

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Re: New Project
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2011, 07:50:05 PM »
Hi Mark

no they don't heat up that much....but if they are heating at all, then they are not able for the load ....that heat is watts turning to heat due to resistance......if the phase wire is able to take the load, should be cold :)

Compared to the 6 fet problems I had, the 12 Fet from lyen is acting like a dream...only set to 30A cont 70 Peak...no more need for any more power :), and the grey is on nylon, don't want to kill em just yet..

45 and 120...yikes, thats fek it up land if you hit a pot hole in the wet and slip on the throttle :)
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute