I have been sent a MP Kit with 3 inch tear on rim(Update with Pictures)

[Andrew]

I've just got my pie and where the hole had been punched into the rim for the intertube valve there is a 2 inch tear where the first outer layer wall has split/come off.  There was no debris, so i'm sure it was not caused in transit.  The good thing is that the tears in the metal rim are pointing inwards so there are no sharp  edges. I made sure the rubber band around the rim covered the tear and then put on the innertube and tyre.  I hope this will not cause an issue. Is this normal ?

i looks like a manufacturing fault.

Andrew

[GM Canada]

Is it possible to see this defect in pictures? If so try uploading a few so we can determine if it is going to be ok.

Gary

[Andrew]

i will post pics when I get time this week to remove tyre. I would have photographed it yesterday but was without access to a camera or camera phone

[Andrew]

I received my Magic pie kit on the 15th after ordering it on the 28th of September.  As said above there was no debris inside the wheel rim or box and there is no damage to the box the kit came in.  It looks to me that it is a machining fault as if the hole puncher got dragged across the rim withoot pulling away first.
Another Balls up by GM, and another p'd off customer   (Sorry to be blunt but I am p'd off.  Is there no quality control at GM?)

I will be emailing TOM today.

Anyone like to add any comments or suggest what may have caused this potentially very dangerous error?

[Andrew]

Tom at GM got back to me very quickly today and is now sending out a replacement rim


Andrew

[GM Canada]

Holy Smokes! That doesn't look good. I understand your concern.  Please don't ride on that! Glad to see Tom is on the case.

Gary

[Leslie]

Nasty.

You could run a whole roll of electrical tape around the rim in place of the rims tube protective linning you may need two rolls to hold the presure, Like 45lbs/1"², You prolly have an inch² there in total.  Wrap it nice and tight and try include going over the edges where there still remains the npple well ceiling so there is no way the tube can slip under the the layers of tape.

I use the electrical tape all the time in place of the tube rim linner on those rims.

My guess is the tube will expand and hold the tape strong in place if you do it good.

As for strength the rim wont be as tough but I think tough enough to ride safe.

Just something to get you by untill you get a replacement, good rims are not cheap and spoking can be difficult.   It should work fine if you make the layers enough.

[Andrew]

Thanks for the replies. At first glance when opening the kit I think I just tried to pretend it wasn't there and I continued to build the kit - as was my excitment  

I may try and line the rim just to get the bike up and running for testing the motor only. I have a local E-bike supplier (electrical engineer) on the case at present and he's looking to see if he can find a  replacement rim for the time being.

Sorry if I sounded a bit p'd off in my previous post but as you can imagine it has  burst the bubble for me and is a bad first impression to the product.  The term  "p/ssed on my parade" comes to mind  

I think i've learn't a lesson...........  buy parts from Gary in CA in future

there is a distributor in the UK but I think they only supply full kits and not parts

Andrew.

[Bikemad]

there is a distributor in the UK but I think they only supply full kits and not parts

Andrew, there are two dealers currently listed in the UK:

Alien Ocean
AlienOcean European Hub
1-9 Plantation Street
Lochgelly KY5 9LP
UNITED KINGDOM
www.goldenmotor.co.uk

Da Vinci Mobility
6-8 Carraway Road
Gillmoss industrial estate, Liverpool
L11 0EE
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: +44 1515481999
Fax: +44 1515480333
www.davincimobility.co.uk


I suggest you email Vincent Ross (sales@davincimobility.co.uk) or better still, give him a call on 01515481999 to see if he stocks the rims on their own.

Alan
 

[Andrew]

you may have come up trumps this time Alan. I've spoken to Da Vinci mobility and they say they have a couple of GM wheels.  I will speak to them tomorrow when they have more time. I asked if I could have just the rim , i'll have to wait and see on that one!   Of course apart from rim size I will have to check that the spoke holes are for 13 gauge MP spokes,  they are 13 gauge aren't they?? I ask because i've seen them for sale on GM Canada as 12 guage??
.  Is there anything else I need to find out?

Andrew

[Bikemad]

I will have to check that the spoke holes are for 13 gauge MP spokes,  they are 13 gauge aren't they?? I ask because i've seen them for sale on GM Canada as 12 guage??

Andrew, if they are the deep "V" double walled GM rims, they should fit without any problem. The early magic Pies used thicker 12 gauge spokes with a reduced threaded portion to enable the use of 13 gauge nipples. I have not seen a later type Pie, but I seem to recall Gary mentioning the spokes are thinner (probably 13 gauge spokes and nipples) therefore the rim should still be the same for either type.

Do you know if Tom is sending a replacement rim direct from China, or whether it is being sent from a local dealer instead?  I'm sure it would be much cheaper for GM to reimburse any delivery costs and restock a local dealer for supplying you with a replacement rim, and it would be much quicker for you too.

Alan
 

[GM Canada]

Here are 2 spokes, the old pie spoke is 2.5mm thick and the new pie spoke is 2.1mm thick. Funny thing is both spoke nuts fit perfectly in my 13 guage spoke wrench. So what size are they?

Gary

[Bikemad]

 

There are several different national systems of gauge sizes, and this has been a great cause of confusion. A particular problem is that French gauge numbers are smaller for thinner wires, while the U.S./British gauge numbers are larger for thinner wires. The crossover point is right in the popular range of sizes used for bicycle spokes:
U.S./British 14 gauge is the same as French 13 gauge
U.S./British 13 gauge is the same as French 15 gauge
Newer I.S.O. practice is to ignore gauge numbers, and refer to spokes by their diameter in millimeters, usually rounded to the nearest tenth of a millimeter.:
U.S./British 13 gauge is 2.3 mm
U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm
U.S./British 15 gauge is 1.8 mm
U.S./British 16 gauge is 1.6 mm
U.S./British 17 gauge is 1.4 mm
The gauge system is basically obsolete as explained in this excerpt from "Machinery's Handbook" 21st edition, 1980 p463:
WIRE AND SHEET METAL GAGES
The thickness of sheet metals and the diameters of wires conform to various gaging systems. These gage sizes are indicated by numbers and the following tables give the decimal equivalents of the different gage numbers.Much confusion has resulted from the use of gage numbers and in ordering materials it is preferable to give the exact dimensions in decimal fractions of an inch... [millimeters preferred nowadays-SB ]

...the decimal method of indicating wire diameters ...has the advantage of being self-explanatory, whereas arbitrary gage numbers are not. The decimal system of indicating gage sizes is now being used quite generally, and gage numbers are gradually being discarded. Unfortunately there is is considerable variation in the use for different gages. For example a gage commonly used for copper, brass and other non-ferrous metals may at times be used for steel, and vice versa...

The wire gage system used by practically all the steel producers in the United States is known by the name Steel Wire Gage or to distinguish if from the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.) used in Great Britain it is called he United States Steel Wire Gage. It is the same as the Washburn and Moen, American Steel and Wire Company, and Roebling Wire Gages. The name has the official sanction of the Bureau of Standards at Washington, but is not legally effective. The only gage which has been recognized in Acts of Congress is the Birmingham Gage...the Birmingham Gage is, however, nearly obsolete both in the United States and in Great Britain, where it originated...

In Great Britain one wire gage has been legalized. This is called the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.), formerly called Imperial Wire Gage.

The U.S. system, S.W.G. and Birmingham gages are all the same for 15 gage, 0.72" (1.8288 mm.)
Below is a small excerpt from the table referred to:

Gage
Number   U.S. Steel Wire Gage      British S.W.G.          Birmingham Gage
12          .1055"      2.6797 mm   .1040"   2.6416 mm   .1090" 2.7686 mm
13          .0915"      2.3241 mm   .0920"   2.3368 mm   .0950" 2.413 mm
14          .0800"        2.032 mm   .0800"   2.0320 mm   .0830" 2.10 mm
15          .072"        1.8288 mm   .072"     1.8288 mm   .072" 1.8288 mm
16          .0625"       1.5875 mm   .0640"   1.6256 mm   .0650" 1.651 mm
17          .0540"       1.3716 mm   .0560"   1.4224 mm   .0580" 1.4732 mm

There's nothing like a bit of confusion now and again to give your brain a good workout. If you weren't confused before, you will be now!

My early Pie spokes measure 2.55mm diameter (approx 0.1000" or 100 thou) so I'm guessing they're supposed to be 12 gauge.

Alan
 

[Andrew]

i had my spokes measured yesterday as 13 gauge, I just got confused when seeing 12 gauge spokes on Garys website.


 It all makes sense now.    Yeah 


I'll try and see whether Tom is willing to supply me a rim from a local distributor

[Leslie]

Maybe I was being presumptuous when suggesting electrical tape.

Maybe plain old fashion sellotape first, try over step the width just a little and good lots of layers.  I think it will have less flex.  Then a few rounds of electrical tape all the way around so it keeps persure around the bottom layers.  The MP rim I got had the wrong liner on it anyway.

you know it a bin+ respoking hubs espeically if you have to remove the old rim too.  If nyoure not carefull itz EZ to over use the spoke nipple threads. So hope you get some spares with any replacement rims.  Maye four or five spare spokes might just make sure you get it/  

Those ones should have a full liner, no holes and made of harder plastic. I feel that the soft rubber liners may bubble.

A thorn proof tube extra thick rubber inner tube is always good.  I think the one I got is 5X thicker.  Pluss a run of electrcal tape reinforces around the nipple holes.  No chance for the tube to bubble into the nipple holes..