Changing internal controller to an external?

[keratea]

My internal controller in Magic Pie rear wheel has broken (As Tom told me).

I am thinking to change this controller whith the external that GM sells as it is more stable.
I have some quastions.

1) Do I have to buy a new harness so to put the new external controller, or the one that comes with the kit can fit?

2) I had a cut on the fat cable that comes out of the motor , near the axle. Is it coming with the harness? If not how can I ask for    that cable to buy?

3)In my Country the temprature in summer is about 30-40 celsius degrees (The resone that the internal controller died I thing)
   I am not sure if it is good to buy the plastic box to put in the controller because the heat of the controller will be closed in the box and maybe I shall die and the new controller...Am I right? If it rains have you any idea how to protect the controller?

If was a fan in the box?

Thank you



     


 

[Bikemad]

The wiring for the external controller will be different to what you already have.
I haven't yet seen any pictures of the harness that comes with the external controller version of the Pie, but you will need to purchase the wiring harness for the wheel side of the controller (motor harness) and then adapt the battery, throttle, brake and cruise wiring to suit, if the external controller does not come with an adapter harness of some sort.

The fat cable is specific to the internal controller, the motor harness for the external controller would be required instead.

If you want the controller to stay cool and dry, you could cut out the base of the box and set the controller into it from below.
Make a card or paper template first to get the correct size and shape before actually cutting the box.

You might also want to check that you have adequate clearance beneath the box to allow the controller to stick out completely without touching the tyre (or mudguard if fitted).

If you seal all around the joint with silicone sealant it should keep the water away from the connections, while leaving the body of the controller completely exposed to the air for much better cooling.
(See attachment below.)

Alan
 

[e-lmer]

It is a major change.

You need have 5 thin wires for the hall sensors
(Black, Red, Yellow, Green and Blue)
and three thicker power leads.
(Yellow, Green and Blue)

There are only two power leads coming out of the Magic Pie.
There are enough other wires to send the hall sensor
wires out.

To switch to the external controller you are going to have to
rewire the hub to get those connections.  I have no idea how
the internals of the Magic Pie are wired, but there should
be room inside to make the connections once you remove the
internal controller.

However, it means the connectors supplied won't do.

I think the motor power wires that come with the external
controller are AWG12, while the hall sensor wires are AWG18
or 20.

You're going to have to bundle them together and run them
out through the axle hole. (good luck there.)

[Leslie]

Yeah agreed.

You will probably find yourself hard wiring, hand soldering and shrink wrapping every connection.  Keep all the high voltage spaghetti shielding for your inside connections.

The phase leads do not need to be as thick as the battery cables as the phase power is supplied via PWM.    A member here Mark AKA Scorpion here has done the internal to external controller mod and used 12awg for phase wires.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi keratea

I used this 12AWG cable from alphawire

http://alphawireonline.com/Products/Wire/Hook-Up-Wire/EcoWire/6718.aspx

This 12g cable is very thin and 3 fit perfect along with the cat 5 sized hall wires! I had to buy a full role of black as I could not buy off cuts! I used yellow, green and blue small cables ties to identify them. Then write down the hall wire colours to the cable you use.

I used cat 5 networking cable and cut the wires off I didn't need.

Okay first of all if you are not used to this, then you need to be very patent indeed! And take off the sprocket side cover off the motor. You will need to remove the motor stator. And that can be quiet hard. I got a length of wood and placed the axle on it and pushed very hard on the wheel and it popped out, Putting it back, well, just make sure your fingers are well out of the way! Use heatshrink to insulate where you make your connections in the motor. Put some tape on the cables and tie them to the axle to stop the force of the motor going back from damaging them.

How you connect the controller end of the cables is up to you, I got a bag of matching connectors for the controller I used to make connecting and disconnecting simple, Or you can just solder and heat shrink!

There are 2 circular clips on the cable side of the axle, and you will need a special tool to remove them, it can be a pain. I could not find any of the right size, so I did not put them back on. Just make sure you use a cable tie on the outer part of the axle to keep the cables from rubbing off the motor. It has worked fine for me.  Oh yeah I got the matching throttle and ebrake, simply because they had the connectors for the controller!

Remember the external  magic controller will only output 20 amps max, some say less. I got the 40 amp infineon controller from ebikes.ca and the direct plugin cycle analyst, with external speed sensor. The cycle analyst gives a very accurate indication of what you have left in your battery + you can adjust your current limits and speed limits. For the pie I really recommend that controller or similar.

Anyway good luck and keep us posted on how you get on


Mark

[karen]

Since this might happend to others, some good pictures on the forum would be great for later:)

Good luck on the work. Ill keep my fingers crossed for you.

[grecomaskara]

I am trying to communicate with Tom but there is no response , 20 days has past...
I only want to buy a replasment internal controller to fix it by myself and they do not reply me.
A have Master ( Quality Assurance Manager ) and I now very well what means quality control...
But there is nothing at all.No warranty, no email .The only hope is that forum.

I opened the wheel from the other side of the freewheel (i now the cable... but I desided to replace it and I already ordered the
ALPHA WIRE 12AWG  and the infernon 40A controller.I can not now open the freewheel side cover now.Can you tell me how to open the freewheel cover?
I saw someone wrote something for a wood or something like that.And by the way wy have I pull out the stator?
Is it possible to make a damage to the stator?What must I be carefull?

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Grecomaskara,


Welcome to the GM forums,

Yet another internal controller dies!

You need to open the freewheel side first. I did not open the other side!

Does the cover come off even slightly?

[grecomaskara]

It was very hard. I had to cut the cable.It was a stupis idea and a mistake from me.Now can you tell me again what to do
so to take off the freewheel cover?As I understand there is no need to take off the freewheel as it is on the cover.
But I can not understand how to take of that cover.Ihave a plastic hammer.

[Bikemad]

Remove the nine cover retaining bolts and give the axle a big smart tap on the end opposite the side you are removing using a wooden or rubber mallet (or a block of wood and a hammer) to loosen the joint. If the joint doesn't separate first time, hit the axle a bit harder until it does.  
Once the joint has been separated, the cover should come away relatively easily. A squirt of oil on the shaft/bearing and possibly some heat from a hair dryer to expand the cover slightly may help if it's tight.
There's no need to remove the freewheel unit separately as it will come away with the cover.
If you put a piece of tape next to one of the holes on both the hub and the cover you can make sure it goes back in exactly the same place.

Alan
 

[e-lmer]

BTW, you do need a freewheel tool to remove the gear cluster.

You might find that part easier if you just go to a bike shop
and ask them to pull it off for you.

[grecomaskara]

Finally I managed to open the motor.
I had a problem with the tool that unscrews the freewheel.
It has a hole for the axle, but it was smaller than axle diameter...
So I took a electric drill and opened the hole about 2-3 millimetre.
The motor came out with a lot of push with the cover. Then I removed
the cover and took off the internal controller.
Now on Monday I am waiting for the new 40a controller, so I shall start the serious fixing.
I have now 3 fat cables and 5 thin coming from the motor.
How must connect now the 3 phases and the 5 thin cables to the new controller?
Is there anything to be careful?
I do not want to make any damage to the new expensive controller...
Thanks

[Bikemad]

How must connect now the 3 phases and the 5 thin cables to the new controller?
Is there anything to be careful?
I do not want to make any damage to the new expensive controller...

If you can't find matching connectors, you will probably have to solder the wires instead. Make sure the joints are well made and properly insulated to prevent shorting.

I'm guessing the colour of the wires will be similar, so make sure the Yellow, Green and Blue connections on both the phase and hall sensor wires are connected to the correct coloured wires on the controller. There should also be a thin Red, and a thin Black wire for the hall sensors power supply.

If there is a problem matching the colours on the new controller, post the details here and we should be able to help you decide which wires go where.

Alan

P.S. You didn't need to remove the freewheel, as it would have come off complete with the cover, but at least you now have a modified removal tool all ready for when you may need to use it again.

[grecomaskara]

Thank you Bikemad
The controller is infernon (40A) and I thing that the colores are matching:blue,green,yellow,black,red.
The 3 fat wires are very hard to make a good solder .I decided to connect them with clemens connector and insulate with insulate tape.
Is it right or shall I have any problem to the future?
Is the heat so match in the whell , that can melt the conectors and to have again to open tha motor?
By the way I took a multimeter and I saw that 1 fet has sorted and a microchip has damaged...
 

[o00scorpion00o]

Thank you Bikemad
The controller is infernon (40A) and I thing that the colores are matching:blue,green,yellow,black,red.
The 3 fat wires are very hard to make a good solder .I decided to connect them with clemens connector and insulate with insulate tape.
Is it right or shall I have any problem to the future?
Is the heat so match in the whell , that can melt the conectors and to have again to open tha motor?
By the way I took a multimeter and I saw that 1 fet has sorted and a microchip has damaged...
 

Hi grecomaskara


I would use heat shrink to insulate your connections! Ant it's much neater than tape!

What battery do you have? The infinion uses a lot of current and your battery must be capable of supplying the current!


Mark