5 Beeps? No Go

[skindoc4]

20 inch front wheel 36V 500W pro motor with 16 ah battery installed and working beautifully for 10 days in terrain with a number of short but quite steep hills. Needed pedal assist for steep pinches but otherwise perfect for my use. Two occasions the motor cut out when coming down hills associated with 5 beeps from horn. Normal function was restored by turning the power off and then on again. A few days ago coming home from work, down a hill and the motor cut out associated with 5 beeps on the horn. Since then nothing. 5 beeps every time I switch on the power. Rotating the motor produces a vibration with resistance ie. no freewheel.

I cannot find a reference to 5 beeps in any of the documentation nor to the complete failure which I have experienced.

I am not a heavyweight (73kg) so I would not have thought the ask too much for the motor.

Any similar experiences, any advice?

Alex

[Bikemad]

Hi and Welcome to the forum.

As far as I'm aware, this is what the beeps mean:

1 beep: Confirmation of anti-theft alarm activation or selection of pedelec mode
2 beeps: Motor hall sensor fault (or confirmation during motor phase calibration)
3 beeps: Throttle fault
4 beeps: Power breaking switch faulty or wires short circuited.
5 beeps: Not documented - email Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) with details of your fault and ask for further advice
EDIT

The problem of 5 beeps is from the low voltage of battery

Alan
 

[skindoc4]

Yes, thank you - I read through all the documentation I could find on the site and came up with a similar list.

I am not particularly mechanically minded but it seems to me that the motor may have seized and I was wondering whether anyone else had experienced this.

I emailed Tom a few days ago but I have not yet had a reply.

Alex

[Bikemad]

If the wheel is very stiff to turn by hand (like when the regen is activated) try disconnecting the three thick wires going to the motor and see if the wheel then turns much easier. If disconnecting the wires makes a noticeable difference, then it's probably a fault with the speed controller.

Give it a try and let us know what you find.

Alan
 

[skindoc4]

Alan

Yes - bang on.

When I disconnected the wires, the wheel turns freely. As soon as the wires are connected again, the wheel is stiff. Again when I swtich on the power, I get 5 beeps.

So that is good news in that it means that the motor has not seized. The question is:

1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Thanks so much for your help so far

Best regards

Alex

[Leslie]

Email tom.  

Maybe 5 beeps means controller death.  It is possible to burn the thing if you try hard enough. Maybe you need a larger battery and the dual drive setup for what you want to do.  Id love to have a bullet proof dual pie and 2X20ah packs for harder rides.

(Edit)

This poses a postage problem when internal controllers break down, nobody should need to ship a whole hub to repair.  Maybe revise the internal controller approach in future editions.

[Leslie]

Maybe I suggest an alternative.

an idea I just thought of.

Intergate the controller with the battery packs or offer the magic controller to those who have their own packs.

But.

Make the Magic controller pop and slot into any GM pack.

Use the controller container as a guide to insert the controller in a pack and only one way.  The pins will always be vertically inserted and their orientation will never be confused.  Allow the fet sink air flow in the design.

Easy replacement and improvements. Better heat management potential.  More fail proof.

Is this a viable?  I'm sure there are negatives.

[Bikemad]

1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Alex, you will need to send another email to Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and tell him that your speed controller has failed, and hopefully he will arrange for a replacement to be sent to you.

Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it is difficult to know how to prevent it from happening again.
If it is just a faulty component that has unexpectedly failed during normal use, there is not much you can do about it.

As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!

The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I wonder if the current limiting function applies to the regenerative braking as well, or does it only control the power output to the motor?
Does the "new function" also prevent regen braking burning out the controller while battery is on.
I wonder if this is the reason why your controller has failed?

Hopefully Tom can provide the answers.

Alan

[Leslie]

1) How do I fix the problem?

2) How do I prevent the problem from occurring again?

Alex, you will need to send another email to Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and tell him that your speed controller has failed, and hopefully he will arrange for a replacement to be sent to you.

Without knowing the exact reason for the failure, it is difficult to know how to prevent it from happening again.
If it is just a faulty component that has unexpectedly failed during normal use, there is not much you can do about it.

As of today, 22/7/2009, the day of the eclipse, all GoldenMotor controllers have a new function to deal with the issue of regen braking burning out the controller while battery is off. Took 2 weeks for project AntiPyro to be completed. Thanks for your support!

The Controller will shut down automatically when a current than higher than a certain value in the controller. (Value to be confirmed)

GM is currently developing another function, a Temperature sensor. If the temperature of the controller goes above a certain value, the controller, again, will be shut down.

I wonder if the current limiting function applies to the regenerative braking as well, or does it only control the power output to the motor?
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Hopefully Tom can provide the answers.

Alan

I agree but I haven't got one of these so I couldnt say.  

But on that theory maybe the set amount of regen in the controller doesnt compensate for extreme steep grade hills. Or his controller was slightly out of spec.

I remember the old controllers and liked the function to be able to controll the amount of regen, however regen on the brake switches could have limitation but torque applied (voltage) not in current follow mode.


As for heat.

I have these great thermistors that respond to your breath.  Small and sensitive.  Good fun.

[skindoc4]

Hi Alan

I have emailed Tom again so hopefully he will get back to me. Thank you for your helpful information. The cut-out of power only occurred when braking on steep hills so I think you have nailed the problem. What surprises me is that switching the power on and off has not fixed the problem as it did on the first few occasions.

I was wondering whether I might be able to put a current-limiting protection circuit (a circuit beaker of some kind which I could switch back on again, better still switched on again automatically) between the motor regenerative circuit and the controller to completely prevent this problem. I have very limited knowledge of electronics and circuits but I can solder and I can follow explicit instructions. I can also get expert assistance if I really need it.

Thanks Leslie also. I have the 36V 16Ahr battery which I would have thought was enough for my 30km commute with the 500W motor. I have the Pro motor so the controller is separate so is not so expensive to send.

Alex

[Leslie]

At 36v speed you must of been flying down hill to get up that sort of current.  Its all relative to pack voltage.  It wouldnt matter less at higher voltages as the pack is not going to draw as much current.

Put any current at voltage on a 36v pack and it will draw more current than if you were to do exactly the same on a 48v pack.  There are larger voltage differences.  The speed of the bike when hitting on regen makes the difference.  Going down a big hill with a 36v pack may provide enough speed and regen voltage/current to charge a 48v pack nice, but the load a 36v pack creates compared to a 48v pack is 12v multiplied by the current.  

If you say you were travelling down hill at 50kph and regen 10 amps, a 36v pack represents 120 more watts of charging power than it would on a 48v pack.


So higher voltage packs may not see this problem as often.  Only if the regen current has not been limited.

Current follow mode presents problems though.  Regen stopping power would no doubt be applicable to the amount of current available and if there was a lot available lots of watts would need to be burnt off.  This thread has lead me to think the regen is set to deliver a set amount of stopping torque and certain things were not to be expected upon its design, like going 50kph down hills with a 36v pack, correct me if I am wrong.

Regen presents a large challenge for the ebike engineer.  People have though about all sorts of ways to rid off excess regen.  One way is to use a small stove element as a resistor but this is a little large and ugly.

GM used to have the amount of regen controllable by just decelerating the throttle.  The negative side there was no free wheeling when regen was pined to be on always.

Maybe include the throttle adjustment style regen to initiate with the break lever.  This way there will be less of a spike but not in all situations.  I feel its a step closer to making it bullet proof.  

[Bikemad]

I'm now in two minds as to whether this failure has been caused by excessive current or excessive voltage.

If the BMS prevents the battery from accepting too much charge by breaking the circuit, the voltage in the controller could then rise very high, especially with a 20" wheel!

So it could possibly be that excessive voltage has actually damaged the controller.

Take a look at my post here

Alan
 

[skindoc4]

Hi Alan

I have not heard back from Tom and it is about 2 weeks now and 3 emails to Golden Motors since I notified the problem. I am getting a little concerned at the lack of a reply. Has this been a problem before?

Alex

[Hardcore]

Has this been a problem before?

It wasn't never this bad. Yao seems to be away or so and Tom... I don't know, with GM it could be anything.

[Leslie]

I'm now in two minds as to whether this failure has been caused by excessive current or excessive voltage.

If the BMS prevents the battery from accepting too much charge by breaking the circuit, the voltage in the controller could then rise very high, especially with a 20" wheel!

So it could possibly be that excessive voltage has actually damaged the controller.

Take a look at my post here

Alan

First event excess current from the small wheel and low pack voltage.

Next is a fuse or breaker opens circuit.

Then the voltage spike over the input caps between source and drain

Avoid the first event and protect the circuit from the third event third.

All events are responsible for failure.

100 volt fets would help.

The diode bypass with a resistor would also avoid the third event but bypass the fuse/ breaker after being set off.

Any ideas!