BLDC Motor Troubleshooting: Rotor attempts to turn, but cogs in place...

[EEdwards15]

Hello there!

THE CONTEXT: I'm setting up a GM BLDC motor and controller. I'm currently powering the motor with a portable power supply as to avoid blowing up any (muy expensive) large format batteries.

THE PROBLEM: Every time that I turn the throttle, the rotor cogs in place. It's trying to turn, but can't make it more than 10deg or so... At first I thought that this might be a mismatch in advance angle parameters, but now I suspect that it may be related to minimum current requirements of the motor/controller and/or a throttle issue.

HARDWARE DETAILS:
20kW/96V GM BLDC Motor
20kW/96V GM VEC-700 Controller
Power Supply at 83V and 15A (1245 W)

SOFTWARE DETAILS:
PI-800.exe with default parameters EXCEPT...
    -Rated motor speed: 3500 rpm (Default was 6000 rpm despite the motor being rated for 3500... not sure what's going on there)
    -Battery drawn current limit: 15 A (Default was 250 A)
    -"EBS enable", "Cruise Control Enable", "Cruise Control Manual Mode Enable", "Boost Enable" are all DISABLED


Two screenshots of the default parameters are attached for reference. The parameters not mentioned above are set at the default parameters.

THE QUESTION: What am I doing wrong such that the rotor refuses to turn? Is this one of the several throttle issues that I've seen discussed in the forums? Is my battery current (15 A) insufficient? [NOTE: I'd like to avoid connecting my large format batteries until I can confirm that everything is working correctly... and 15 A is the max current that my power supply can handle.] My "hall electrical angle" and "phase angle offset" parameters (120 and -120, respectively) are set to their default values... but is it possible that this might be incorrect as well?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Please let me know if you need any additional details.

-EE

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

Most of the throttle problems with the VEC controllers is basically that they don't control the motor speed very well when there is no load on the motor. I seem to recall that the throttle actually controls the motor's torque rather than its rpm.

I test the set- up with load and it work .
Only with load you can control the Throttle.
Without load the Throttle goes up from 0% direct to 100% with no steps between .

Have you checked that the settings are actually being saved correctly by re-loading them again to update the figures?

The only thing I can suggest is to try lowering the Starting phase current to 15 Amps (if it's possible) and the Rated phase current to 20A to see if it makes any difference.

If nothing changes, you will need to contact David at CM China and see if he can help.
His email address is:

Please let us know what happens.

Alan
 

[EEdwards15]

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your quick response. I'm trying to download the suggested parameters, but now I'm running into an entirely different problem. Every time that I plug in the USB, Windows displays an error message that "this device has malfunctioned". In my control panel, it recognizes that the device is connected but doesn't know what it is. It's labeled "Unknown device" and is not associated with any drivers (nor can I seem to figure out HOW to assign it the correct driver...). I uninstalled and re-installed the USB drivers without any luck. I successfully connected and downloaded to this same controller with the same computer yesterday.

I tried multiple USB ports without success and also confirmed the functionality of these ports with other USB devices. The problem seems to be with the controller or the connection to the controller. I tried disconnecting and reconnecting every connection from the USB port to the controller connector, but nothing has changed. Have you seen this malfunction before? Do you have any suggestions on how to resolve this issue? I'd really appreciate your help!

Thanks in advance!
EE

[Bikemad]

If you are plugging in the USB plug while the other end is connected to the controller try disconnecting the lead from the controller first and see if it can recognise the USB device on its own.

If the device is recognised correctly, try opening the programming software and selecting the COM port before connecting to the controller and clicking on the connect icon.

If it doesn't recognise the USB device on its own, the problem is either the USB device or the computer/Windows.

If you normally leave your computer in hibernate or sleep mode, try shutting it down completely and then restarting it to see if it helps.
If that doesn't make any difference, try plugging the USB programming cable into another PC or laptop to see if it is still unrecognised.

If another PC won't recognise the USB lead either, it is probably the USB lead itself causing the problem, unless the Program lead for the VEC range of controller uses a different chip to the Magic Pie and Smart Pie vector controller programming cables.

Alan
 

[Nuxland]

Hey

I think your problem is that power supply is only 15A.
My 10kw motor uses 15A when it is turning freely, but when it starts to turn, it uses a lot more.
Use batterys.

[EEdwards15]

Hi guys,

Thank you for the advice. I've requested another USB controller from GM, as they don't even sell the VEC-700 USB controller separately. Once that arrives, I will download new parameters  (namely a large value for battery supply current) and hook it up to the batteries. I'll send updates if/when this all happens...

Thanks again!
EE

[EEdwards15]

Hi all,

I'm having a troubling problem connecting to my Golden Motors controller (VEC-700). Every time that I connect the controller to the computer via USB, an error message displays indicating that "this device has malfunctioned". The VEC-700 USB is not recognized in any of the COM ports and is therefore unavailable for selection in the GUI. Because of this, every time that I click “Connect” the GUI throws a timeout error. A screenshot portraying these symptoms is attached.
 
The USB connection is labeled as an “Unknown Device” in the computer’s control panel. I've done all of the usual troubleshooting:
Uninstalled/Re-installed USB driver
Uninstalled/Re-installed VEC-700 GUI
Shut Down/Restarted computer
Attempted connecting to two other computers (all computers resulted in similar errors)
Attempted connecting while the controller is powered on B+/B- terminals

Curiousily enough, the error message ("this device has malfunctioned") displays every time that the USB is plugged in -- even when the USB isn't plugged into the controller. And although I can't connect to the controller, the controller does indeed control the motor just fine. I asked GM tech support for advice. They also couldn't figure out what was wrong and sent me another USB connector.

The second connector was unable to connect to the controller without external power. Once a voltage was applied across the B+/B- terminals, the second connector did successfully connect and download to the controller. However, like the first connector, the second connector also stopped working after several tests. Every time that the second connector is plugged into the computer the same error message is displayed: “this device has malfunctioned”.
 
It is because of these circumstances that I believe that the problems lies within the controller. So I contacted GM and they are sending me another controller...

..but I'm still entirely sure of what is happening here. And I'm afraid that is will happen again with the next controller! This project is time and $$ sensitive, so I need to be sure that this second controller (and third USB) do in fact work as soon as they arrive. Has anyone had any similar issues? Were you able to diagnose the problem and/or solution? Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you SO much in advance!

Cheers,
Elyse

[Bikemad]

Hi Elyse and thanks for the update.

There are not very many people on the forum using the VEC 300/500/700 controllers, but the programming seem to be a problem as several of the posts I've seen have mentioned problems with the USB program lead connection.

Hopefully, the replacement items will work correctly.



Alan
 

[Bundas]

Hi Guys,

I had similar problems, the solution was
for me the newest PI800 software version.
I don't know exactly may be v3.1.3 

Please let me ask a question:

I bought a HPM10KL-12D-PZ  72V/10kW liquid cooling motor and a P/N:VEC72500 controller.
I can connect to the controller and change pameters, it works well a year ago.I have problems during acceleration. When the pedal (throttle) is pressed the motor don't start to move the mower tractor, but after a some second the motor stops, (no acceleration). After a second or pedal pressed again and it try to start but cant, ( for a half second). I think it looks like a current limit stops the controller.

Can you send me a parameter set to the next config?

Another question: in normal condition, without load,
can I rotate a BLDC 10kW golden motor?
(type: HPM10KL-12D- PZ  72V/10kW water cooled,)
 
Is it possible the BLDC motor seized, steam or blocked?

The controler (type:P/N:VEC72500) give me the 4th blink error code
" 4 Stalling protection Motor stalling time is over default value) "

thank you in advance
motor: HPM10KL-12D-PZ  72V/10kW liquid cooling
controller: P/N:VEC72500
battery: 6 piece lead-acid battery serial connection 6*(12VDC 100Ah)
vehicle: max200kg with manual gear shift
 
thank you in advance

best regard
Andras

[Bikemad]

Hi Andras,

If your mower has been working well for a year, then you shouldn't need to change any of the parameters.

You should be able to turn the motor by hand relatively easily. If you cannot turn it easily, I suggest you remove the two drive belts to see if it makes any difference.

If it is still too tight to turn by hand, it may be that the motor has some rust built up between the rotor magnets and the steel armature of the stator, especially if it has been kept unused in a cold and damp shed over winter.

It could also be tight if water has been able to enter the main shaft bearings, which could happen if you have washed the mower with a hose pipe or jetwash etc.

If the motor turns easily by hand with the two drive belts removed, try running the motor from the batteries to see if it will spin correctly.
If it runs OK without any load, check the blade mechanism and the drive mechanism to see which is too tight and causing the motor to stall with the belts connected.

Alan
 

[Bundas]

Hi Alan,

I consult with my colleges (electrical engineer and technicians)
they said the same issue what you mentioned.
The motor has some rust, 2 piece rotor magnets are broken
and the steel armature is cracked too.
Please let me know can I order a complete rotor part for this type?
 (type: HPM10KL-12D- PZ 72V/10kW water cooled,)

Thank's in advance again

Andras
 

[Bikemad]

Hi Andras,

I half expected it was going to be a small build up of rust that was preventing the motor from turning as I have experienced similar problems with a seized alternator and seized brakes on my car when it was left unused in damp conditions for just a couple of weeks, but I was not expecting broken magnets and a cracked armature. 

Condensation allows rust to build up very quickly, but if the water also freezes and expands, it can exert a huge amount of force

Unfortunately, I don't know whether the motor components are even available to purchase separately, so I suggest you send an email to Philip Yao (sales@goldenmotor.com) and ask him if the rotor assembly is available separately for your motor.

It might help to include photos of the damaged components to show exactly which part you require. 

Alan